Best DHEA

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    Need info on DHEA. Not using it for typical reasons.


    Need to find out the best brand/form of DHEA. Going to be taking 200mg per day. Don't know the first thing about it. Taking it to offset side effects of prednisone. Not using it for typical reasons.

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    dermacrine is coming out any time now.
    rs transaderm
    PA's d spray
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    dermacrine is coming out any time now.
    rs transaderm
    PA's d spray
    All good to go
    •   
       

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    A lotta other ingredients in it to besides dhea and a very low dose of the dhea. Why all the hype about this product. I mean why is it that much better. Jw, cuz ive seen tons of products get overhyped and then end up being terrible, what makes this different.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    A lotta other ingredients in it to besides dhea and a very low dose of the dhea. Why all the hype about this product. I mean why is it that much better. Jw, cuz ive seen tons of products get overhyped and then end up being terrible, what makes this different.
    Transdermal delivery is more efficient than oral, hence the lower dose.
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    Honestly, any cheap brand of DHEA seems to work for this(think bulk bottles from Sam's). Yes, you can get better absorption with other forms but you have to weigh the cost benefit ratio. Also, since you are going more for the DHEA/DHEA-S levels then oral would be better than transdermal since trans tends to convert to DHT et al hormones.

    My wife was on Pred for years due to ulcerative colitis and we used oral DHEA to help with the side effects as well as to boost the effectiveness and help with down dosing off the Pred. Some literature points to a strong anti-inflammatory effect from the DHEA itself at 200 mg + doses, but side effects can be tricky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Honestly, any cheap brand of DHEA seems to work for this(think bulk bottles from Sam's). Yes, you can get better absorption with other forms but you have to weigh the cost benefit ratio. Also, since you are going more for the DHEA/DHEA-S levels then oral would be better than transdermal since trans tends to convert to DHT et al hormones.

    My wife was on Pred for years due to ulcerative colitis and we used oral DHEA to help with the side effects as well as to boost the effectiveness and help with down dosing off the Pred. Some literature points to a strong anti-inflammatory effect from the DHEA itself at 200 mg + doses, but side effects can be tricky.
    I highly doubt the side effects of DHEA are any worse than the prednisone side effects. I would much rather have the DHEA side effects instead. I was looking at the 100mg Ultimate nutrition capsules or just buy the bulk powder and take 200mg of that.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Ditto on the Pred sides. They are worse than DHEA sides for sure but irritability can be present(or a fantastic mood..its really hit or miss in that department). Hope it helps, I know how much pred sucks.

    I recall reading a study where 200 mg of DHEA performed almost as well in a small group of Lupus patients in easing inflammation as Pred.
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    Does anyone know if there is an easy way to make a transdermal DHEA? Just something simple with an effective carrier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Ditto on the Pred sides. They are worse than DHEA sides for sure but irritability can be present(or a fantastic mood..its really hit or miss in that department). Hope it helps, I know how much pred sucks.

    I recall reading a study where 200 mg of DHEA performed almost as well in a small group of Lupus patients in easing inflammation as Pred.
    My only concern about DHEA is the acne since I am young and have acne prone skin. I did a test booster once for 60 days, that didn't go well. So I'm just not sure what to do. I don't want to get severe acne but I also don't want prednisone side effects and muscle wasting.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Unfortunately, both pred and high dose DHEA have their price to pay. Acne can really get bad with DHEA due to the DHEA itself and the downstream estrogen metabolites. Depends on the person.
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    200mg, really? smh
    are you self-medicating? sure sounds that way
    would not suggest to you at young age to attempt to create a "fix" to alleviate potential sides from prednisone
    talk to your prescribing doctor

    dermacrine (while a very nice niche product) should certainly not be thrown at you for an option by anybody
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    200mg, really? smh
    are you self-medicating? sure sounds that way
    would not suggest to you at young age to attempt to create a "fix" to alleviate potential sides from prednisone
    talk to your prescribing doctor

    dermacrine (while a very nice niche product) should certainly not be thrown at you for an option by anybody
    Recommended dose of DHEA when on prednisone is 100-200mg per day. Prednisone bleeds your adrenal glands dry of everything. Most people's body cortisol and DHEA levels go down to 0 when they are on high doses of prednisone
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    Recommended dose of DHEA when on prednisone is 100-200mg per day. Prednisone bleeds your adrenal glands dry of everything. Most people's body cortisol and DHEA levels go down to 0 when they are on high doses of prednisone
    once aqain:
    is this what you have read/heard?
    or, is this what your prescribing doctor has advised for you
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    once aqain:
    is this what you have read/heard?
    or, is this what your prescribing doctor has advised for you
    This is what ive read, but obviously Ill ask my doc cuz if a doctor prescribes it I'll be getting much better quality medical grade stuff, as opposed to buying the crap from the health food store. Not just gonna blindly buy it. Although I think ive been self medicating a little bit with like Kava, L-Dopa, dopamine derivatives, and tons of stims for concentration purposes.
    .
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    Ill ask my doc
    great, thx

    self-medicating, especially when not thoroughly knowledgeable, not a good thing
    please do not advise such
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    great, thx

    self-medicating, especially when not thoroughly knowledgeable, not a good thing
    please do not advise such
    Parents still pay for my insurance and ordered access to all medical records if I wanna live at home. They are completely against any sort of prescription unless its a life or death matter. I have depression, anxiety, paranoia, mood swings, insomnia and concentration problems. They would flip out if they found me with a prescription for anything besides prednisone.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    I have depression, anxiety, paranoia, mood swings, insomnia and concentration problems.
    i wonder how much of that is due to your questionable self-medicating?

    in any event - what you do is your concern
    i would rather not see you do these things to yourself, as you are messing with potential fire

    but even worse - i would rather not see you influence someone else who is lacking fuundamental education on medical matters, and think they can do the same things because you have advised it or talked about it

    this is just bad, very bad

    again, please refrain
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    i wonder how much of that is due to your questionable self-medicating?

    in any event - what you do is your concern
    i would rather not see you do these things to yourself, as you are messing with potential fire

    but even worse - i would rather not see you influence someone else who is lacking fuundamental education on medical matters, and think they can do the same things because you have advised it or talked about it

    this is just bad, very bad

    again, please refrain
    I have a physical on Thursday. Ill address all my issues with my doctor and see what she says.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    great, thx

    self-medicating, especially when not thoroughly knowledgeable, not a good thing
    please do not advise such


    DHEA is well researched as an anti-inflammatory. It's safety profile is pretty well established and unless he has hormone sensitive cancer or high BP (in which case, he shouldn't even be on Pred) then exploring DHEA is a decent option. Will his physician agree? Probably not. The current Standard of Care for any high level inflammation is Pred and that's that. Pred has laundry list of deleterious side effects a mile long owing to the havoc it wreaks on the adrenals. Taking preventative measures like DHEA supplementation is a valid avenue to explore even if he has to do it without "Dr's supervision" due to the limited scope of the SOC on anything endocrinological. Getting referred out to an Endo is a good first step
    Last edited by bioman; 01-30-2013 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Overly harsh tone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    I'll add this as a quote after every inquiry for every product your company sells, particularly the androgens and perhaps reply with equal urgency. The difference being, I'd be doing people an actual favor by depriving HRT clinics of future clients.

    Seriously man, if you're not up on DHEA research that's fine, but let's not start screaming the "The sky is falling!".

    DHEA is well researched as an anti-inflammatory. It's safety profile is pretty well established and unless he has hormone sensitive cancer or high BP (in which case, he shouldn't even be on Pred) then exploring DHEA is a decent option. Will his physician agree? Probably not, but no one anywhere in the medical industry will ever agree that 550-XD is a good idea for anything. The current Standard of Care for any high level inflammation is Pred and that's that. Pred has laundry list of deleterious side effects a mile long owing to the havoc it wreaks on the adrenals. Taking preventative measures like DHEA supplementation is a valid avenue to explore even if he has to do it without "Dr's supervision" due to the limited scope of the SOC on anything endocrinological.

    Sorry for the flaming response, but I find the idea of androgen reps on an androgen board begging a person to seek medical supervision for something as mundane as DHEA to be completely absurd. In other words, you can't have it both ways..
    wow, just..wow
    your perception bioman is quite skewed, and the context with which you compare things is alarming and ignorant indeed

    there is a substantial difference in an uneducated individual (going farther: teenager or youth) attempting to fix or alleviate his medical conditions with self-medication and OTC product, versus the platform on which we advise the use of our product

    you have never seen (nor will you ever) one of our reps advise use of our product, to cure or aid in the course of a medical condition
    we simply do not take such stance..it is unconscionable
    we are not doctors, and will never pretend to be such
    we provide warnings on our labels

    please stop, with this fabricated nonsense

    beyond that: are you an MD?
    if not, then i need go no further, nuff said
    if you are, then i question how you can give such advice on this forum, without thorough first-hand examination of patient and history etc

    education and information in order to enlighten is one thing..
    advised application of such in this context is quite another

    your posts like this are, in truth, cause for alarm
    i can only hope you will change your own outlook of your activity on this forum, and look more at the context in which you come across

    quite frankly, it is just as scary as this kid above

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    No, not an MD, just a biologist with first hand experience in the use of Pred and DHEA as an adjunct therapy as well as thousands of hours of literature review on the subject at hand.

    Your assertion that you and yours DON'T offer up medical advice is furthering my point, not detracting from it. The larger point being, your industry operates well BELOW the medical radar and you damned well know it. So when you go alarmist on a pretty tame topic and basically shut down the discussion...well, I just can't abide. The thread starter deserves a reasoned discussion complete with references and abstracts so he can make up his mind.

    Otherwise...

    Technically, everyone on these boards should TAKE YOUR ADVICE and never use ANY product offered on these boards without first consulting a "physician". They will get that message on their bottle of product X...in very very tiny print, but let's not kid ourselves here. Everyone on this board is self medicating and every company profiting from it is cheering them on and patting them on the back with a hearty "Right on Bro, you're tearing it up!".

    I cannot truly discern what age anyone on these boards really is..that's just reality. While we discourage teens from using anything hormonal, we also encourage them to learn.

    http://www.lef.org/protocols/abstrac...a%20prednisone


    Don't take my comments as being directly only at you. I am venting on the entire industry for dispensing "sound supplement advice" but then backpedaling into a "talk to your Dr" stance when convenient. Again, technically it should always be the latter but it seldom is. Given the F'ed status of healthcare and the very limited, very conservative SOC in endocrinology, self treatment is a valid option if done so in an informed manner. You're Dr isn't likely to inform you these days...they're too bogged down by the system to be your researcher these days.

    For the record, YES, I do think the thread starter should talk to his physician...but he should also be armed with information.
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    we can dance around all other issues you care to, and i would be glad to discuss further with via PM if you wish

    bottom line:

    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    For the record, YES, I do think the thread starter should talk to his physician
    thank you
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    OK, it's clear to me that Snag and I misread each other, me moreso than him. Both of us are just trying to help but have differing opinions/methods as to how. We do both agree that some level of medical supervision is warranted.

    I apologize for my harsh tone being directed at Snagency. He's a good one, just trying to fight the good fight. I have zero issues with his company. I won't say that about ALL reps, and my frustrations with some companies and their tactics boiled to the surface in some of my posts, which wasn't warranted.
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    discussion can be a wonderful thing
    intentions over the internet are hard if not impossible to read at times..
    my apologies as well, for any misunderstanding and curt appearance that was certainly not the case
    bioman - you are a stand-up guy, with a wealth of knowledge
    buffspartan - hopefully the intent (and advice) of my posts is taken by you as was meant - to truly assist you not belittle nor deprive
    i wish you the best
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    discussion can be a wonderful thing
    intentions over the internet are hard if not impossible to read at times..
    my apologies as well, for any misunderstanding and curt appearance that was certainly not the case
    bioman - you are a stand-up guy, with a wealth of knowledge
    buffspartan - hopefully the intent (and advice) of my posts is taken by you as was meant - to truly assist you not belittle nor deprive
    i wish you the best
    With most supplements, I wouldn't ask a doctor, but when dealing with hormones at such a young age, I can understand why you were concerned. I already messed around with test boosters last year and had severe, uncontrollable acne for months, plus a bunch of other sh*tty side effects. I also didn't realise 200mg was such a big deal since I know nothing about DHEA.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Another good resource that will often be knowledgeable or will do some research for you if you ask is your pharmacist. If your doctor does not know much on a subject speak to your pharmacist then go back and discuss the options given with your physician.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    With most supplements, I wouldn't ask a doctor, but when dealing with hormones at such a young age, I can understand why you were concerned.
    is not only the hormonal issue buff, rather a wide spectrum of issues that encompass not just your course of action here with DHEA consumption specifically, but a pattern of conduct i observe from you..

    to reiterate: DHEA consumption alone is not my point, and i simply feel you would be better off seeking medical guidance for your myriad issues, rather than continue to seek answers from ppl on forums to implement and apply

    i can say nothing else, it is quite simple, my stance
    seek guidance from your doctor
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    Well put, Snag.

    Yes 200 mg is pretty high and would almost certainly exacerbate your acne, unless your body truly requires that much. DHEA is also a potent neurosteroid which can either alleviate some Pred sides or send you further over the edge with irritability and anger(usually happens to me). It has a strong tendency in men to convert to estrogen, although in some it can go the route of DHT, particularly if applied transdermally. It's an amazing, well studied, but still not clearly understood hormone with implications in inflammation cycles, immune system function, neurotransmitter balance as well as lots of interplay within the steroid hormones.

    To get it to work its best, it should be monitored via bloodwork like any other hormone. Watch estrogen levels closely to avoid all that nastiness. If you can achieve the correct levels, then it should smooth out some of the harsher sides of the Pred as well as make coming off of it a lot easier with fewer flare ups and withdrawal symptoms.

    If you can find a good Endo to guide you through this, it would definitely be worth your while. I know it will not be easy to find a supplement friendly one, but you'd have the added benefit of having your other hormones monitored as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Well put, Snag.

    Yes 200 mg is pretty high and would almost certainly exacerbate your acne, unless your body truly requires that much. DHEA is also a potent neurosteroid which can either alleviate some Pred sides or send you further over the edge with irritability and anger(usually happens to me). It has a strong tendency in men to convert to estrogen, although in some it can go the route of DHT, particularly if applied transdermally. It's an amazing, well studied, but still not clearly understood hormone with implications in inflammation cycles, immune system function, neurotransmitter balance as well as lots of interplay within the steroid hormones.

    To get it to work its best, it should be monitored via bloodwork like any other hormone. Watch estrogen levels closely to avoid all that nastiness. If you can achieve the correct levels, then it should smooth out some of the harsher sides of the Pred as well as make coming off of it a lot easier with fewer flare ups and withdrawal symptoms.

    If you can find a good Endo to guide you through this, it would definitely be worth your while. I know it will not be easy to find a supplement friendly one, but you'd have the added benefit of having your other hormones monitored as well.
    So my primary care doc knew nothing about it and said she didn't want to mess with it at all. She mentioned calling my nephrologist and talking to him. Also going to talk to my nutritionist. Mentioned it to a guy at the health food store and he told me to email a naturopathic doctor cuz he didn't want to mess with it either. During the time being I'm using Glutamine, BCAA, Green tea extract, Green coffee bean extract and alphamine to combat the weight gain and muscle wasting from the prednisone. They seem to be doing a decent job so far. Fyi, loving the Yohimbe in the Alphamine!! So much better than DMAA. Much smoother energy. And no stim d*ck!
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    So my primary care doc knew nothing about it and said she didn't want to mess with it at all. She mentioned calling my nephrologist and talking to him. Also going to talk to my nutritionist. Mentioned it to a guy at the health food store and he told me to email a naturopathic doctor cuz he didn't want to mess with it either.

    Not surprised. This is still a novel treatment and well outside the standard of care for most doctors in the US. A naturopath may be the route to go if you can't find a cooperative Endo. They can order your bloodwork. There are naturopaths who specialize in hormones so I'd say keep looking in that direction.

    When it comes to hormones, I could go on and on about my disappointment in the healthcare system, how pred should only be administered by an Endo, etc, but that negativity will not serve you. Just keep your chin up and seek out the right help. It's almost like dating...you'll throw a lot of fish back before finding a keeper, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post

    Not surprised. This is still a novel treatment and well outside the standard of care for most doctors in the US. A naturopath may be the route to go if you can't find a cooperative Endo. They can order your bloodwork. There are naturopaths who specialize in hormones so I'd say keep looking in that direction.

    When it comes to hormones, I could go on and on about my disappointment in the healthcare system, how pred should only be administered by an Endo, etc, but that negativity will not serve you. Just keep your chin up and seek out the right help. It's almost like dating...you'll throw a lot of fish back before finding a keeper, lol.
    During my physical today I asked my doc to check my test. Fasting blood test. Well see what happens with that. But yeah, the naturopath I go to is great. Mark Mincolla, he has written book, has a radio show and segments on the news. He knows his sh*t. Also might shoot an email to another naturopath I'm good friends with. My endo is kinda harsh so I don't really wanna ask her.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
  

  
 

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