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    I have no problems staying asleep until my alarm wakes me, but what is there to help me fall asleep...natural or supplemental, I'm not worried.

    Stims are non existent after lunch (1pm).

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    Melatonin should do the trick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    I have no problems staying asleep until my alarm wakes me, but what is there to help me fall asleep...natural or supplemental, I'm not worried.

    Stims are non existent after lunch (1pm).

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    The best natural (non-prescription) option would be a formula by Irwin Naturals called "POWER TO SLEEP".
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    I have no problems staying asleep until my alarm wakes me, but what is there to help me fall asleep...natural or supplemental, I'm not worried.

    Stims are non existent after lunch (1pm).

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    While melatonin straight up will likely do the trick, I've had some really whacked out dreams, so I prefer a blend. My absolute fave is Sleep by Top Secret Nutrition. One tab before bed and I'm out! You can get it on NutraPlanet too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikthatlifts View Post
    melatonin straight up will likely do the trick
    mmm doubtful
    while melatonin may be one of the better known and popularized "remedies", but that actuality of this helping is dependent on the individual's melatonin levels -- which, is usually not low and therefore not the problem. there are many ppl who this won't help at all

    i'm in the same boat, been having horrible sleep issues for an extended time..just picked up some G8 from Finaflex
    ooooooo wow. incredible!
    went from taking forever to fall asleep, waking every 6x an hour, to these last few nights of nice drifting off at bedtime/going hours w/o waking up/bed is not disturbed at all so i am not even moving in my sleep!
    i awake feeling so rested and good these last few mornings..

    truly amazing

    check it out, here
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    So what is it that you companies product has that would work over melatonin?

    also how would OP know if his levels are low or his circadian rhythm is off?
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    melatonin works, GABA also works by helping me relax
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post

    mmm doubtful
    while melatonin may be one of the better known and popularized "remedies", but that actuality of this helping is dependent on the individual's melatonin levels -- which, is usually not low and therefore not the problem. there are many ppl who this won't help at all
    All depends on how much you take. Agreed that the standard 3mg dose won't do it for most. In the past, I've taken 10mg at once and conked out!
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    I used to take Ambien like candy to try and sleep. I now use NightRest and it works awesome. Just a combo of magnesium, GABA, taurine, melatonin, lemon balm, passion flower, chamomile, skullcap, and Glycine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget5 View Post
    So what is it that you companies product has that would work over melatonin?

    also how would OP know if his levels are low or his circadian rhythm is off?
    it's in the formula

    Quote Originally Posted by chikthatlifts View Post
    All depends on how much you take. Agreed that the standard 3mg dose won't do it for most. In the past, I've taken 10mg at once and conked out!
    i'll disagree again
    if you have norm levels of melatonin production, you can take all the supplemental melatonin in the world - to no avail

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    melatonin works, GABA also works by helping me relax
    dint make any blanket statements to melatonin NOT working
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    I used to take Ambien like candy to try and sleep. I now use NightRest and it works awesome. Just a combo of magnesium, GABA, taurine, melatonin, lemon balm, passion flower, chamomile, skullcap, and Glycine.
    skullcap lol (some of the names of these herbs)
    anyway - magnesium is a great relaxant
    there is a product called Calm, that is awesome relaxant if you are just tight/tensioned, and need to relax
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    skullcap lol (some of the names of these herbs)
    anyway - magnesium is a great relaxant
    there is a product called Calm, that is awesome relaxant if you are just tight/tensioned, and need to relax
    Skullcap is pretty well known stuff.

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/well...l-remedies.htm

    http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/skullcap-000273.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    Skullcap is pretty well known stuff.

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/well...l-remedies.htm
    yes i know
    wasn't disputing, simply laffing at name
    (horny goat weed makes me laff too)
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    our REM-8.0 works really well, formally known as ressurect. 1 teaspoon does the job nicely and would allow the product to last for a good bit of time
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    Target's brand of Unisom sleep gels combined with ZMA. Taking Unisom on it's own knocks me out but I still feel very tired the next morning. When I added in ZMA, I wake up feeling refreshed and energized.
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    ZMA ..
    developed by your upstanding and morally solid Victor Conte




    just don't claim that this boosts testosterone..may help sleep and balance slight mineral deficiencies tho
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    I have used g8. I found it to be real good for giving me deep sleep. Not getting to sleep. Same with ZMA and melatonin.

    I had been used a Time Released Melatonin at 3mg.

    Nothing yet. I did try and keep room at a certain temp and it seemed to help somewhat. Just a struggle....

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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    I have used g8. I found it to be real good for giving me deep sleep. Not getting to sleep.
    you dose it empty stomach ~15min before sleep?

    i still say try some Calm..could be a cheap fix

    other options are like herbal teas, Celestial Seasonings has Sleepytime and Tension Tamer variations, worked for me couple yrs back but i've gotten out of the tea habit for some reason
    don't know if they have these things Down Under...
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you dose it empty stomach ~15min before sleep?

    i still say try some Calm..could be a cheap fix

    other options are like herbal teas, Celestial Seasonings has Sleepytime and Tension Tamer variations, worked for me couple yrs back but i've gotten out of the tea habit for some reason
    2.5 hours after last meal.

    Will look into it Steve. Thx

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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    it's in the formula

    i'll disagree again
    if you have norm levels of melatonin production, you can take all the supplemental melatonin in the world - to no avail

    dint make any blanket statements to melatonin NOT working
    I wonder if coop would agree. He recommends daily dosing of melatonin at <1g IIRC.
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    Have you looked at some natural ways to help get to sleep earlier? No TV in the bedroom, same time/routine for going to sleep each night (getting on a schedule), an hour or so before to wind down, turning the cell phone off?

    Not to say any of the supplement advice isn't good or necessary, but if I had the issue I'd research and start with the non try taking this answers if it was me.

    Also I realize that depending on what you do the schedule thing may or may not be possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I wonder if coop would agree. He recommends daily dosing of melatonin at <1g IIRC.
    i don't check my knowledge to make sure it matches with what someone else says, sorry

    paraphrasing someone elses words from 'recollection' does not excite me much, either



    perhaps if you want to hear from him on this topic, you should PM him rather than channel your memory
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    Unfortunately sleep enhancers develops tolerance, mas so you should change often to avoid it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    i don't check my knowledge to make sure it matches with what someone else says, sorry

    paraphrasing someone elses words from 'recollection' does not excite me much, either



    perhaps if you want to hear from him on this topic, you should PM him rather than channel your memory
    Perhaps I should rephrase myself

    Only the dosing part was from memory. natural melatonin levels decrease with age, hence why many adults go to bed later yet wake much earlier than teenagers (consdier how tired many teenagers are/ how ling they sleep for in comparison).

    Dosing melatonin before sleep can shift the circadian clock backward thus allowing for an earlier sleep cycle and ergo a more refreashed awakening.

    While what you said regarding melatonin production may be true; due to the natural decline in levels, supplementing may help offset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Perhaps I should rephrase myself

    Only the dosing part was from memory. natural melatonin levels decrease with age, hence why many adults go to bed later yet wake much earlier than teenagers (consdier how tired many teenagers are/ how ling they sleep for in comparison).

    Dosing melatonin before sleep can shift the circadian clock backward thus allowing for an earlier sleep cycle and ergo a more refreashed awakening.

    While what you said regarding melatonin production may be true; due to the natural decline in levels, supplementing may help offset.

    well i can appreciate that stance

    however - i don't know that i would compare the sleep patterns of teens/older adults and give reasoning to differing melatonin levels as being the be all/end all here..you have a whole entire cascade of hormonal differences going on between the two, my friend

    infants require more sleep than children, children require more sleep than teens, teens require more sleep than adults
    none of this has anything to do with internal melatonin production

    but -- i will most definitely agree with the aspect of IF there is a decline in melatonin production, then supplementation of such will certainly correct this and aid in sleep patterns
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    well i can appreciate that stance

    however - i don't know that i would compare the sleep patterns of teens/older adults and give reasoning to differing melatonin levels as being the be all/end all here..you have a whole entire cascade of hormonal differences going on between the two, my friend

    infants require more sleep than children, children require more sleep than teens, teens require more sleep than adults
    none of this has anything to do with internal melatonin production

    but -- i will most definitely agree with the aspect of IF there is a decline in melatonin production, then supplementation of such will certainly correct this and aid in sleep patterns
    I will say though that I have tried the Finaflex product and it definitly has been alot more benficial to helping me sleep than a melatonin supplement.

    Def helped me sleep on those days that I just couldn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I will say though that I have tried the Finaflex product and it definitly has been alot more benficial to helping me sleep than a melatonin supplement.

    Def helped me sleep on those days that I just couldn't.
    oh man, i cannot tell you how excited i am about this stuff..
    seriously - i have been in hell the past couple weeks at least (lack of hitting deep REM), and it was taking a toll on me something fierce
    (and yes, i tried melatonin, which has never seemed to work for me at any time)
    these past couple nights have quickly restored balance to my life, my thoughts, my training
    G8 is the only thing i have changed

    i don't want to appear to be pimping my company product here, i'm simply being proactive in my belief of an awesome product

    on that note - i do appreciate your own feedback on G8
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    ZMA...works like a charm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Have you looked at some natural ways to help get to sleep earlier? No TV in the bedroom, same time/routine for going to sleep each night (getting on a schedule), an hour or so before to wind down, turning the cell phone off?

    Not to say any of the supplement advice isn't good or necessary, but if I had the issue I'd research and start with the non try taking this answers if it was me.

    Also I realize that depending on what you do the schedule thing may or may not be possible.
    This right here. Lifestyle factors ought to be optimised (if they aren't already) first. What's your schedule like? Do you have a regular bed-time and a regular wake time?

    I can speak from years of experience with sleep issues that were down to a variety of factors. Tried a number of supps, most of which have been mentioned here (except melatonin), and they helped at times but I've found more than anything it's the lifestyle factors that are most important.

    Regular time to bed is critical, but so is an appropriate length of time to wind down. The worst thing you can do is try to make large changes in habitual time to bed. For instance if you're not getting to bed until 1am, trying to sleep at 10pm is likely to be entirely counterproductive - make the changes gradual, say 15 minutes at a time. Removing excitatory stimulus like tv and computer from the sleep window will help an immeasurable amount, but as Geoforce said it may not be possible. In that case there's a few things you can try.

    If working on your computer late at night is simply unavoidable, there's a lightweight desktop app you can download for either PC or Mac called f.lux. It tints your screen red (you can customise colour temperature) automatically as the sun goes down. The idea is that the photosensitive ganglion cells which ultimately play a role in pineal gland regulation of melatonin production respond most strongly to light in the blue-violet spectrum. If you filter that out you reduce it's impact on natural melatonin suppression. Having used it for some time now, I can't say for sure what, if any effect is has had, but I do find it extremely irritating if I disable it for any reason working late. There is plenty of supporting research on their site (though some of it inapplicable to computer screens - I had believed that a screen couldn't generate sufficient luminance which is supported here: ww w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21552190, but it is worth trying.

    Guided or transcendental meditation techniques are also well worth practicing too. Can work wonders for sleep induction, and plenty of information around the net.

    The most effective thing for me though has been listening to music. Anything that relaxes you and reduces mental chatter will do the trick, but for me that's downtempo idm, ambient soundscapes, drone, and sometimes field recordings. There are stacks of netlabels that produce creative commons albums that are free to download in these genres (let me know if you want links) and I've accumulated well over 100 over the years. Some of the labels are better than others but it's all a matter of personal preference really. Either way, while my sleep issues have largely been controlled for years I do still run into nights where I can't sleep. First thing I always do is put the headphones on and listen to an album and 9 times out of 10 it does the trick.
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    Thanks man.

    5.45am wake up
    6.45am Train
    8.30 work
    7.30pm dinner
    Bed between 11 - 11.30 ( reading up as I'm a student and work plus some family time )

    Ill look into f.lux

    I'm trying to deep breath as my relaxation 4in 4out and keep a nice room temp. Window open, shirt off, 18 degrees celsius.

    I have 500mg magnesium at dinner and 300mg zinc and 1 B complex +5g fish oil.

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    OP, have you looking into LiGHts Out? http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/i...t-56-caps.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmhager View Post
    Nighttime, November 29th

    1 didnt knock me out how I wanted so gonna try 2 tonight!

    Schedule:
    Light Out Taken @ 1210am
    Nighttime Shake @ 1240am
    In Bed @ 1245pm
    Asleep @ 105am


    Morning, November 30th

    Notes:
    Awoke @ 920
    Sleep Quality (1-10): 9, woke up feeling great!
    Wake up any during the night? 0
    Feeling upon Waking (groggy, rested, etc): Very rested and alert

    Total Hours of sleep:
    8 hrs and 15 min

    Notes: Definitely noticed deeper sleep last night. I felt rejuvenated when I awoke and felt pretty energized all day!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcelis323 View Post
    10/29


    10/31
    Ok so last night I took Lights Out after getting home pretty late, knocked me out in less than 5,what i really love is the way i feel at work right now, i don't feel as tired,i only slept 4 hrs but i feel like i slept 7,pretty energetic, im loving Lights Out, first day of training after 8 days off,about to start a new program,il keep you guys posted!
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    Thanks VT

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    Chris I've been having some sleep troubles myself mainly due to my nightshift schedule and a medication I was put on that had insomnia as a known side effect... I've since been off that medication and I'm trying to get back to my usual sleep schedule. Melatonin worked for a little bit (first night took it at 3g and slept great but I had really weird dreams... my wife stirred in the middle of the night and said that I was laughing in my sleep and she asked me what was so funny and I stopped laughing, paused for a few seconds, and then responded with "cartoons" without opening my eyes lol... 2nd night I took 5g and felt drunk tired, 3rd night I took 4g and still had trouble sleeping...) so the only thing I've been taking now sporadically is Benadryl 25mg before sleep. Haven't had troubles with this yet but I'm don't want to rely on it forever.

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    Supplement-wise, I like melatonin and theanine. Formula-wise, iForce Lights Out has been treating me VERY well, and Ergogenix Ergobolic helped me a bunch way back when.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Supplement-wise, I like melatonin and theanine. Formula-wise, iForce Lights Out has been treating me VERY well, and Ergogenix Ergobolic helped me a bunch way back when.
    Out of any sleep aid, what you use Coop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Out of any sleep aid, what you use Coop?

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    Re: help me sleep


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Have you looked at some natural ways to help get to sleep earlier? No TV in the bedroom, same time/routine for going to sleep each night (getting on a schedule), an hour or so before to wind down, turning the cell phone off?

    Not to say any of the supplement advice isn't good or necessary, but if I had the issue I'd research and start with the non try taking this answers if it was me.

    Also I realize that depending on what you do the schedule thing may or may not be possible.
    Agreed here for sure... Sleep hygiene is extremely important!

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    What I'm working on V

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    Unfortunately normal sleep patterns are non-existant for me, shift work and study tend to make this difficult. For that reason I tend to invest in some good sleep aids that help knock me out but with a restful sleep. I've used both G8 and lights out and would recommend both but for me G8 edges out in terms of better sleep. I would use both for different purposes; i.e. when I can get a normal sleep routine in between semesters then Lights out would be my go-to for enhanced recovery.

    G8 has my vote for you runner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Unfortunately normal sleep patterns are non-existant for me, shift work and study tend to make this difficult. For that reason I tend to invest in some good sleep aids that help knock me out but with a restful sleep. I've used both G8 and lights out and would recommend both but for me G8 edges out in terms of better sleep. I would use both for different purposes; i.e. when I can get a normal sleep routine in between semesters then Lights out would be my go-to for enhanced recovery.

    G8 has my vote for you runner
    Careful, G8 is habit-forming. I actually think the profile is decent but won't be investing because they had to label GABA in a dubious way
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