DAA is useless, IMO.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    DAA doesn't work for everyone. In the human trial, 20 of the 23 participants had significant increases in T. 3 did not. Based on that sample size, you're looking at about 15% non-responders.
    I am glad you posted this. I don't understand why some people patronise when he was quoting blood value differences. If he had said "I didn't notice any size gains" then perhaps it would make more sense.

    He posted pertinent values on an ingredient which has been studied for those values. Whether he knows the difference between exogenous and endogenous isn't relevant.

    It is good to see more people quantifying supplement changes via hormone panels. I disagree that it is "junk" for the reason Cyrus posted but I am glad that you had some testing done, I think the industry could do with more quantifiable feedback.
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  2. DAA = jackpot (for me)
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  3. There are so many factors that go in to this you can't just say DAA is useless.
  4. Re: DAA is useless, IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I am glad you posted this. I don't understand why some people patronise when he was quoting blood value differences. If he had said "I didn't notice any size gains" then perhaps it would make more sense.

    He posted pertinent values on an ingredient which has been studied for those values. Whether he knows the difference between exogenous and endogenous isn't relevant.

    It is good to see more people quantifying supplement changes via hormone panels. I disagree that it is "junk" for the reason Cyrus posted but I am glad that you had some testing done, I think the industry could do with more quantifiable feedback.
    I definitely agree with this, however, saying a supplement is junk or useless based on a single blood test is relatively hard to gain answers from. The variables that go along with hormone values are usually not taken into consideration outside of a clinical setting i.e. the average supplement user. Testosterone levels will undeniably vary based on things as little as timing of blood draw, amount of sleep, diet, exercise done prior to and the list goes on and on.

    Yes, its good that people are taking more responsibility for their own usage of supplements and results with said supplements but in regards to natural hormones its a slippery slope to gauge effectiveness.

    - Valdez
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    I definitely agree with this, however, saying a supplement is junk or useless based on a single blood test is relatively hard to gain answers from. The variables that go along with hormone values are usually not taken into consideration outside of a clinical setting i.e. the average supplement user. Testosterone levels will undeniably vary based on things as little as timing of blood draw, amount of sleep, diet, exercise done prior to and the list goes on and on.

    Yes, its good that people are taking more responsibility for their own usage of supplements and results with said supplements but in regards to natural hormones its a slippery slope to gauge effectiveness.

    - Valdez
    I am not agreeing with him that it is junk. I specifically disagreed with that statement.

    I was pointing out that people were giving him a hard time for posting an underwhelming blood test result.

    He said nothing that indicated he was expecting steroid like results. He just posted his blood test improvement and people gave him a hard time for it because it seemingly, on the data we have been given, gave him less of a testosterone improvement than people expect from the studies.
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  6. One thing that I wasn't able to find and I feel like it's worth asking / pointing out;

    What were your test levels before?

    I mean, it's a supplement, to help you with your test levels, released testosterone, etc. But it will only go so high and you can only expect so much. Say you have free test in the 500's or 600's. It's very unlikely you'll see a big boost from it when compared to someone who's got their test at around 200 - 300. There's just so much that a supplement can do in helping you produce testosterone.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by Mission1

    He probably wants the supplements to do all the work for him.
    Dang, u mean they dont?
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post

    I am not agreeing with him that it is junk. I specifically disagreed with that statement.

    I was pointing out that people were giving him a hard time for posting an underwhelming blood test result.

    He said nothing that indicated he was expecting steroid like results. He just posted his blood test improvement and people gave him a hard time for it because it seemingly, on the data we have been given, gave him less of a testosterone improvement than people expect from the studies.
    Some people were giving the OP a hard time because he just created a new account after starting too much trouble with his original one. This was somewhat explained earlier in the thread.
    PEScience Representative
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I am not agreeing with him that it is junk. I specifically disagreed with that statement.

    I was pointing out that people were giving him a hard time for posting an underwhelming blood test result.

    He said nothing that indicated he was expecting steroid like results. He just posted his blood test improvement and people gave him a hard time for it because it seemingly, on the data we have been given, gave him less of a testosterone improvement than people expect from the studies.
    He didn't post his dosing scheme (could be doing it wrong).

    He did not post his original levels, how did he know it had only gone up that much?

    He does not give us values at all, so we don't know if he already had high test to begin with (Like I said, it only boosts endogenous testosterone production, it doesn't give supraphysical levels that would place him in the exogenous hormone region...)

    He could be a non-responder like Cyrus mentioned.

    Aside from that, thanks Ben for agreeing with Cyrus, but where is the magnificent insight this industry needs without Previous Bloods and with values for all of them? Not calling anyone out...just stating that he did not post anything significant about his blood tests except a 28 point rise, that we can neither confirm nor tell without important information (a bit of which I asked ).
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  10. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I am not agreeing with him that it is junk. I specifically disagreed with that statement.

    I was pointing out that people were giving him a hard time for posting an underwhelming blood test result.

    He said nothing that indicated he was expecting steroid like results. He just posted his blood test improvement and people gave him a hard time for it because it seemingly, on the data we have been given, gave him less of a testosterone improvement than people expect from the studies.
    It's the reputation of the OP to be somewhat of a troll looking to stir **** up. This is also to same guy telling people to skew bloods to get TRT.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  11. Quote Originally Posted by breezy11 View Post
    Some people were giving the OP a hard time because he just created a new account after starting too much trouble with his original one. This was somewhat explained earlier in the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    It's the reputation of the OP to be somewhat of a troll looking to stir **** up. This is also to same guy telling people to skew bloods to get TRT.
    Yes, I didn't base my comments with any prior knowledge of OPs posting history. I still have no knowledge of this other than what was said in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    He didn't post his dosing scheme (could be doing it wrong).

    He did not post his original levels, how did he know it had only gone up that much?

    He does not give us values at all, so we don't know if he already had high test to begin with (Like I said, it only boosts endogenous testosterone production, it doesn't give supraphysical levels that would place him in the exogenous hormone region...)

    He could be a non-responder like Cyrus mentioned.

    Aside from that, thanks Ben for agreeing with Cyrus, but where is the magnificent insight this industry needs without Previous Bloods and with values for all of them? Not calling anyone out...just stating that he did not post anything significant about his blood tests except a 28 point rise, that we can neither confirm nor tell without important information (a bit of which I asked ).
    I didn't say it was a "magnificent insight" lol. There is a lot of pertinent information which is missing. I agree with this.

    A while ago Mission1 posted some negative reviews about supplements, pretty sure he called them junk because to him, they were junk. Loads of other people said they were good but in his opinion, it was junk.

    I stuck up for him when people jumped down his throat. I think it is a nice forum where people can post negative reviews without getting grief.

    There is a lot of information which is missing which would be helpful. I agree with asking for it.

    I specifically disagree with statements such as this which in fairness is a bit patronising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Yeah...or thinks a Test Booster is gonna rise his natural levels above normal, give him massive gains and act like a steroid.
    When people claimed Mission1 was a troll because he didn't like Tropinol or Ursobolic I stuck up for him because their return comments were unfair. By all means ask further questions to find out more information on the OPs history, previous blood levels, previous supplement history etc. In my opinion, the above statement is unfair because at no point did he say he was disappointed he didn't get "massive gains", he was just disappointed that a testosterone booster barely boosted his testosterone which I think is fair enough.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post

    Yes, I didn't base my comments with any prior knowledge of OPs posting history. I still have no knowledge of this other than what was said in this thread.

    I didn't say it was a "magnificent insight" lol. There is a lot of pertinent information which is missing. I agree with this.

    A while ago Mission1 posted some negative reviews about supplements, pretty sure he called them junk because to him, they were junk. Loads of other people said they were good but in his opinion, it was junk.

    I stuck up for him when people jumped down his throat. I think it is a nice forum where people can post negative reviews without getting grief.

    There is a lot of information which is missing which would be helpful. I agree with asking for it.

    I specifically disagree with statements such as this which in fairness is a bit patronising.

    When people claimed Mission1 was a troll because he didn't like Tropinol or Ursobolic I stuck up for him because their return comments were unfair. By all means ask further questions to find out more information on the OPs history, previous blood levels, previous supplement history etc. In my opinion, the above statement is unfair because at no point did he say he was disappointed he didn't get "massive gains", he was just disappointed that a testosterone booster barely boosted his testosterone which I think is fair enough.
    Hey Ben,
    You forgot about intimidate. That was worst than the other 2. But I'm loving alphamine stacked with Ur spray!

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post

    First off:

    -How old are you?
    -What were you expecting?
    -Do you understand the difference between a supplement (i.e. Test Booster) and AAS (i.e. Test-E)?
    -Do you understand the difference between endogenous hormone levels and exogenous hormone values?
    -How was your dosage and how long did you take it?

    Oh and like Rodja said...it is a supplement...
    I'm 19 yrs old
    Expecting gains of 10-12 lbs in three weeks
    Yeah? Test-E is made by BSN right?
    Duh! Wait, exogen... Huh?
    Took it 3.4 weeks at 1.2g EOD

    See, told you I'm an expert.
    I can't believe that God put us on this earth to be ordinary. - Lou Holtz
  14. Re: DAA is useless, IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Yes, I didn't base my comments with any prior knowledge of OPs posting history. I still have no knowledge of this other than what was said in this thread.



    I didn't say it was a "magnificent insight" lol. There is a lot of pertinent information which is missing. I agree with this.

    A while ago Mission1 posted some negative reviews about supplements, pretty sure he called them junk because to him, they were junk. Loads of other people said they were good but in his opinion, it was junk.

    I stuck up for him when people jumped down his throat. I think it is a nice forum where people can post negative reviews without getting grief.

    There is a lot of information which is missing which would be helpful. I agree with asking for it.

    I specifically disagree with statements such as this which in fairness is a bit patronising.



    When people claimed Mission1 was a troll because he didn't like Tropinol or Ursobolic I stuck up for him because their return comments were unfair. By all means ask further questions to find out more information on the OPs history, previous blood levels, previous supplement history etc. In my opinion, the above statement is unfair because at no point did he say he was disappointed he didn't get "massive gains", he was just disappointed that a testosterone booster barely boosted his testosterone which I think is fair enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mission1 View Post
    Hey Ben,
    You forgot about intimidate. That was worst than the other 2. But I'm loving alphamine stacked with Ur spray!
    Mission is a TROLL

    - Valdez
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post

    Mission is a TROLL

    - Valdez
    I know I'm a DEAD giveaway
  16. Re: DAA is useless, IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mission1 View Post
    I know I'm a DEAD giveaway
    Hahaha!!!!!!! So............................ .............................. .............................. .......................

    Alphamine huh? When were you gonna tell me?

    - Valdez
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  17. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    A while ago Mission1 posted some negative reviews about supplements, pretty sure he called them junk because to him, they were junk. Loads of other people said they were good but in his opinion, it was junk.

    I stuck up for him when people jumped down his throat. I think it is a nice forum where people can post negative reviews without getting grief.

    There is a lot of information which is missing which would be helpful. I agree with asking for it.

    I specifically disagree with statements such as this which in fairness is a bit patronising.



    When people claimed Mission1 was a troll because he didn't like Tropinol or Ursobolic I stuck up for him because their return comments were unfair. By all means ask further questions to find out more information on the OPs history, previous blood levels, previous supplement history etc. In my opinion, the above statement is unfair because at no point did he say he was disappointed he didn't get "massive gains", he was just disappointed that a testosterone booster barely boosted his testosterone which I think is fair enough.
    Like afore mentioned Benjamin , I merely asked the pertinent questions...and the statement was merely because (as mentioned by many others) the OP had some previous strikes on posting...however I agree it was a bit premature.

    I am still expecting the answers, yet I don't think I'll get them. It will suffice to assume he either had already high T levels to begin with and thus DAA could not do much, or that he is a non-responder to it...in which case the mere generalization that it is junk is a bit blunt...perhaps to HIM it is not worth it, but we cannot generalize . Oh by the way Merry Christmas Ben! Even if it's late !
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep
  18. Re: DAA is useless, IMO.


    Curious... DAA isn't level specific is it? It shouldn't make any difference whether his levels were 500 or 800. Maybe he is just a non responder? Although, I feel like due to other variables he may not be getting the whole picture, so to speak.

    - Valdez
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Curious... DAA isn't level specific is it? It shouldn't make any difference whether his levels were 500 or 800. Maybe he is just a non responder? Although, I feel like due to other variables he may not be getting the whole picture, so to speak.

    - Valdez
    Curious...if he had peak levels of T , how do you want DAA to increase endogenous production if his system is already at max or near max output? As presented before DAA will not yield (to my knowledge) supra physical values of testosterone Valdez.
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Curious... DAA isn't level specific is it? It shouldn't make any difference whether his levels were 500 or 800. Maybe he is just a non responder? Although, I feel like due to other variables he may not be getting the whole picture, so to speak.

    - Valdez
    Also could be that OP is in HTPA shutdown and without a SERM I don't see how DAA alone in 3-4 weeks could restart his HTPA system and help bring back testosterone levels to normal...But like you say , we are missing another variables for the whole picture, not just level specificity .
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post

    Hahaha!!!!!!! So............................ .............................. .............................. .......................

    Alphamine huh? When were you gonna tell me?

    - Valdez
    Wanted to surprise you. Trying to speed up the process! Please don't be mad at me I woke up up this morning and thought it would be a killer move to enhance the fat loss process.
  22. Re: DAA is useless, IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Curious...if he had peak levels of T , how do you want DAA to increase endogenous production if his system is already at max or near max output? As presented before DAA will not yield (to my knowledge) supra physical values of testosterone Valdez.
    Take it easy Mr., I was thinking out loud, lol. The only natural peak testosterone levels I have ever seen are on the within normal limits range that are used in the medical field, which I believe to be 200-1159 ng/dl. My point being that, I think more than likely he is a non responder vs being maxed out. That is all

    - Valdez
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Take it easy Mr., I was thinking out loud, lol. The only natural peak testosterone levels I have ever seen are on the within normal limits range that are used in the medical field, which I believe to be 200-1159 ng/dl. My point being that, I think more than likely he is a non responder vs being maxed out. That is all

    - Valdez
    I am taking it easy I don't get why people think I get worked up in every post xD haha. Anyhow it is also possible he is just in a hard HTPA shutdown and I guess you know that DAA alone in 3-4 weeks cannot bring back T levels to normal if that's the case .
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  24. Its the intimidation factor! haha jk. Were all friends here! Queue the music *Why can't we be friends!*

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Curious... DAA isn't level specific is it? It shouldn't make any difference whether his levels were 500 or 800. Maybe he is just a non responder? Although, I feel like due to other variables he may not be getting the whole picture, so to speak.

    - Valdez
    It would theoretically be more effective in an individual with lower T levels (in contrast to something like Divanil which works best on someone with higher T levels).
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