Bulbine - We're bing ripped off, apparently

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    Bulbine - We're bing ripped off, apparently


    From another forum, whilst researching bulbine (and why i feel like Im a bloated woman) I came across this....

    You’re all being ripped off.


    About 1 year ago Bulbine Natalensis hit the Dietary Supplement industry and raised quite the commotion. Claiming to raise testosterone levels by 347%, the buzz was profound to say the least. Since its release, numerous companies have included this ingredient in their products with great results and reviews from end users. The most glowing/positive reviews are coming from a specific form of Bulbine Natalensis known as ProLensis™ as this was the exact extract used in the clinical studies proving the power of Bulbine Natalensis. The extract is unique as it is a 10:1 concentrate, and it contains specific ratios of saponins and alkaloids that have been proven time and time again to raise testosterone.
    Unfortunately, not every company is willing to pony up the cash for legitimate raw materials, so the vast majority of products that claim to include Bulbine Natalensis are vastly inferior and will not produce results even remotely similar to those found in the clinical studies. Now while ProLensis™ is obviously the most effective form of Bulbine Natalensis, it would make sense that these cheaper/inferior extracts would at least give us some decent gains…right?


    WRONG!

    A certain company is currently marketing a product which claims to be “100% Bulbine Natalensis” at a whopping 500mg/capsule. They have prided themselves on the fact that it is not a proprietary blend, and that giving people this amount per pill enables users to finely tune their dosing to correspond to their weight(Don’t forget, Bulbine Natalensis will raise testosterone up to a certain point, and then if you take too much, it will reduce your testosterone levels). They’re logic behind this dosing is

    http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx145/JayJo101/1.jpg

    So it seems like they’ve read the studies, and understand how to make sure that people take the right dose. The only problem is their math is COMPLETELY wrong. So wrong in fact it is 100% guaranteed that following the dosing protocol of this product will in fact reduce your testosterone levels.
    The study this company is referencing used Wistar rats as their subjects and found that a dose of 25mg-50mg/kg was the most effective dose of ProLensis™. So according to this study, if you’re a rat and want a 347% increase in testosterone, you need to be taking 25-50mg/kg of bodyweight.

    What’s that you say? You’re not a rat? You’re a human? Well that changes everything.

    Common knowledge in the pharmaceutical industry as well as most of the dietary supplement industry shows us that to convert a dosage from any animal (in this instance a rat) to a human, a simple formula must be used to compensate for Body Surface Area(BSA). The fact is that the more body surface area an organism has, the lower the dose/kg will end up being. So to be clear, an animal with a low BSA(such as a rat) will need a higher dose per kg of weight than an animal with a high BSA(such as a human or a 1,000lbs Moose for that matter). So you can figure out the proper dosing for yourself, here is the formula set up in its basic form, as well as with the proper numbers thrown in for both 25mg/kg and 50mg/kg.


    Basic formula:


    http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx145/JayJo101/2.jpg



    Bulbine Natalensis Conversion formula:


    http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx145/JayJo101/3.jpg



    Dose = 25mg/kg * (6/37)


    Dose = 25mg/kg *(.162)


    Dose = 4.05mg/kg



    http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx145/JayJo101/4.jpg



    Dose = 50mg/kg * (6/37)


    Dose = 50mg/kg *(.162)


    Dose = 8.10mg/kg


    So now we have a true dosing pattern for humans(again, if you’re a rat, please stick with the doses used in the study!) so we can see what each of us should be using to get gains comparable to the study. The company in question uses an 80kg(176lbs) man for their dosing, so we will as well.

    80kg x 4.05mg(25mg/kg in rats) = 324mg


    80kg x 8.10(50mg/kg in rats) = 648mg


    Now just to be clear, what this math is telling us is that an 80kg man, should be taking inbetween 324-648mg/day, or they run the risk of lowering their testosterone instead of raising it. So if this is the case, why in the heck would this company be suggesting an 80kg man take 8 tablets a day, or 4,000mg of Bulbine Natalensis? They are giving users 15-20x more than the study calls for. If this was any other ingredient I’d say “go stock up now!” however this is one of the only ingredients where more is NOT better.
    In fact, the only way for this product to work is it you weigh exactly 61.5kg(135lbs), and consume anywhere from ½ a capsule(good luck dumping out ½ a capsule each day) to 1 capsule per day. If you weigh 80kg like they estimate you will, you’ll need to take 2 capsules/day, which puts you well over the dosing threshold which means you will LOWER your testosterone levels!

    So now where does that leave us? Should no one take Bulbine Natalensis? Absolutely not! You just need to choose a brand like RLS that actually knows how to use studies, science, and proper dosing protocols to ensure you get the results you deserve! Look for only brands that utilize ProLensis™ Bulbine Natalensis as they are guaranteed to be dosed properly and effectively due to intense research by the companies who offer it, as well as the manufacturers!


    ROGERBOB:
    I'm gonna give 1 Tab a go, and report my results. It certainly doesn't feel like my test is higher on high dose (12 tabsx500mg) bulbine compared with TauroTest, ISA-TEST gf, or Erase.. I feel like ive been on the booze all night and im retaining loads of water

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    This post states that a higher dose lowers a users testosterone, is there research showing this? Thank you.


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    SNS Bulbine all day. 8mg/kg.
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    Im seeing a u-turn effect too.. high trst, then lowers after 10 days ish
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    http://www.steroidtimes.com/bulbine-...-estrogen/2010

    one study showing the guy using too much reduced his estrogen AND tesosterone.

    Seems less is more
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerBob View Post
    http://www.steroidtimes.com/bulbine-...-estrogen/2010

    one study showing the guy using too much reduced his estrogen AND tesosterone.

    Seems less is more
    Yes. I am currently using IForce Tropinol but I believe it to be under dosed for me (my weight) at two caps a day. With it being a Prop blend I don't really know how much Im getting. I've noticed some positive things while on it but I want to give the SNS product a go next time as I will be sure of the dose.
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    same - i went for a £5 cheaper product, but hters no way of telling what the dose is inside. it just says 100% 500mg.

    Ill try the lower dose as the high dose makes me feel like a girl.
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    bulbine seems to have a bell shaped curve with dosing in terms of testosterone increase....i had the discussion with a company owner because he was bragging about having the highest dose of bulbine in his product...but thats not necessarily a good thing and could be a bad thing and make a lot of potential customers turn to another product

    i must say my experience with bulbine though has been amazing....i love stacking it with daa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    bulbine seems to have a bell shaped curve with dosing in terms of testosterone increase....i had the discussion with a company owner because he was bragging about having the highest dose of bulbine in his product...but thats not necessarily a good thing and could be a bad thing and make a lot of potential customers turn to another product

    i must say my experience with bulbine though has been amazing....i love stacking it with daa
    What kind of dosing mg/kg did you follow?


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    Quote Originally Posted by pushinweightw View Post
    What kind of dosing mg/kg did you follow?

    Supplement Facts:
    Serving Size: 1 Capsule
    Servings Per Container: 60
    Amount Per SRV %DV
    Zinc (from Zinc Aspartate) 10mg 67%
    Proprietary Blend 500mg**
    Urtica Dioica Extract (Pharmaceutical Grade Extract Containing SHBG Binding Lignans 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran and Secoisolariciresinol), ProLensistm (Bulbine Natalensis P.E.),Zinc Aspartate
    **Percent Daily Value Not Established


    this is the breakdown of the product i took with bulbine.....just went 1 cap a day but saw a marked increased in libido and body comp....strength was ok but i wasn't really concerned with strength at that time
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain13 View Post
    Yes. I am currently using IForce Tropinol but I believe it to be under dosed for me (my weight) at two caps a day. With it being a Prop blend I don't really know how much Im getting. I've noticed some positive things while on it but I want to give the SNS product a go next time as I will be sure of the dose.
    That's the beauty of SNS! You never have to wonder how much of the ingredient you're getting. That's always been a huge sell for me when choosing which products to purchase.

    Also to the OP, next time try using a different approach. The thread title is misleading. While you're specifically saying one company is dosing wrong, the thread title implies that Bulbine is a sham, which is not the case.

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    I cycle Ergotest, which has prolensis in it. My labs in July were 330 total T and yesterday my Doc called and they were 476. free and bio T increased however I do not have before numbers.

    We have seen users Triazole stacked ergotest really blow up.
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    Im following this - product says take 2000mg twice a day

    the science says take 1 tab or LESS a DAY

    So, im gonna try 1 tab. Thats 120 days supply!
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    Ah, great.. so a N T B M shill can post an article on the internet to pimp their crap.

    I am shocked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Ah, great.. so a N T B M shill can post an article on the internet to pimp their crap.

    I am shocked.
    crap? it seems to me a lot of ppl have success with bulbine products...not matter what brand
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    yeah lets not get off subject - we wanna look at the dosage
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    That's the beauty of SNS! You never have to wonder how much of the ingredient you're getting. That's always been a huge sell for me when choosing which products to purchase.

    - Valdez
    have u used sns bulbine yet? if so how was it?
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    I hear good things about Iforces trop. I've not had any personal use of SNS's but I have a ton of SNS single ingredient goodies to know their stuff is quality
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    googling shows iforce bulbine as bunk, try SNS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    crap? it seems to me a lot of ppl have success with bulbine products...not matter what brand
    I wasn't referring to Bulbine, but this post directly.

    Please point out in the studies where the aqueous extract referenced = Prolensis?

    Prolensis is just a bs made up name by AR to sell this. I was researching baker stem well before his little campaign started. The purported effects are way overblown.

    To say the bulk is not effective is just plain wrong, in comparison to the magical Prolensis.
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    From another forum post. Different product. Bro-science

    Less is more with this product. I had to experiment big time when I was using phytoserms 347(btw would never pay that much again).

    I was taking 3 caps a day -- nothing.

    Took 2 caps a day --- felt more increase in testosterone related sides

    took 1 cap a day --- boom sweet spot!!!!!!!!

    Next time around I'm gonna do bloods just so I have hard evidence.

    But please remember to dose bulbine the lowest you possibly can for your body weight.

    I was 160lbs at the time (about a year ago), even half a cap or one full cap worked just fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I wasn't referring to Bulbine, but this post directly.

    Please point out in the studies where the aqueous extract referenced = Prolensis?

    Prolensis is just a bs made up name by AR to sell this. I was researching baker stem well before his little campaign started. The purported effects are way overblown.

    To say the bulk is not effective is just plain wrong, in comparison to the magical Prolensis.
    if thats the case...why do think so many companies use the porlensis bulbine, like I force, SNS, IML, and RLS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    if thats the case...why do think so many companies use the porlensis bulbine, like I force, SNS, IML, and RLS
    Hmmm, I'm gonna go with conspiracy, ya conspiracy gotta be.


    I kid I enjoy those companies and appreciate the fact that they use what has been researched.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    if thats the case...why do think so many companies use the porlensis bulbine, like I force, SNS, IML, and RLS
    Your RLS/N T B M affiliation is showing through.

    So you are telling me that the bulk alone is not effective? The same extract utilized in studies?

    Also, if Phyto was dosed so superbly.. why are they promoting they doubled the content in their new version. Seems to me if they were so great with their math, and that there is a bell curve, they wouldn't want to increase that dosage whatsoever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Your RLS/N T B M affiliation is showing through.

    So you are telling me that the bulk alone is not effective? The same extract utilized in studies?

    Also, if Phyto was dosed so superbly.. why are they promoting they doubled the content in their new version. Seems to me if they were so great with their math, and that there is a bell curve, they wouldn't want to increase that dosage whatsoever.
    i didn't say any of that...i asked u a question...stay on track here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    i didn't say any of that...i asked u a question...stay on track here
    You have the burden of proof here. It is your company promoting this stuff. Why are you saying bulk is ineffective and your prolensis is effective?

    And again.. I point out Anthony Roberts is behind this. Why does anyone trust anything he says? I don't think I have to explain the details behind his criminal history, scamming operations, and the reason each website he hosts gets ripped from him. He is the biggest crook in the industry, he is the reason this industry gets a bad name, and you people support him.

    Gonna sell steroid named products next? Wait, he already did that.
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    And lets not get this twisted.. there have been multiple people post blood results showing lowered test and raised estro from Phtyo.
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    No reason to carry on really. Just meant to point out the original post was an attempt by N T B M to discredit other products to promote their own (Common practice by them).

    I will check out now. I have no real skin in this game. You all are consumers and have that right to make up your mind on what to buy.
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    Isn't Cahill attached to prolensis as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You have the burden of proof here. It is your company promoting this stuff. Why are you saying bulk is ineffective and your prolensis is effective?

    And again.. I point out Anthony Roberts is behind this. Why does anyone trust anything he says? I don't think I have to explain the details behind his criminal history, scamming operations, and the reason each website he hosts gets ripped from him. He is the biggest crook in the industry, he is the reason this industry gets a bad name, and you people support him.

    Gonna sell steroid named products next? Wait, he already did that.
    when did i say bulk was as ineffective? again stick to the topic here....your the one claiming bulk is just as good...so why are a lot of companies using prolensis...it wouldn't make good business sense to buy a named extract that probably cost more
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Isn't Cahill attached to prolensis as well?
    I wouldn't doubt it.

    Another shining example of a crook in our industry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982
    No reason to carry on really. Just meant to point out the original post was an attempt by N T B M to discredit other products to promote their own (Common practice by them).

    I will check out now. I have no real skin in this game. You all are consumers and have that right to make up your mind on what to buy.
    That is absolutely retarded. I read his posts, his threads, he doesn't mention anything relating to ****..nothing
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    ignor prlensis - Bulbine in GENERAL, low dose blloods vs high dose is what we want
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    That is absolutely retarded. I read his posts, his threads, he doesn't mention anything relating to ****..nothing
    You are out of your element.. been here for a few months and believe you know AM history.

    You know why those letters were starred out in your post? Because they were here and AM brass seen the backhanded nature of the company.

    YG is a product of such, and was a rep when they were here. You can search that company name and YGs name and see he is still a member of that team.

    RLS is that company, of which puts out propaganda pieces to discredit other companies.

    Do I need to go further?

    I didn't even say prolensis didn't work... just not the underhanded tactics utilize to discredit other companies to promote their product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerBob View Post
    ignor prlensis - Bulbine in GENERAL, low dose blloods vs high dose is what we want
    Of which yes, Baker Stem in general... there is a median dose for each person that needs to be calculated. Each person has their own specific HED.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerBob View Post
    googling shows iforce bulbine as bunk, try SNS
    we source our bulbine from the same exact people as SNS, its Prolensis..............the patented extract for bulbine



    just wanted to correct that. tropinol might be getting a facelift in the near future anyways
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You are out of your element.. been here for a few months and believe you know AM history.

    You know why those letters were starred out in your post? Because they were here and AM brass seen the backhanded nature of the company.

    YG is a product of such, and was a rep when they were here. You can search that company name and YGs name and see he is still a member of that team.

    RLS is that company, of which puts out propaganda pieces to discredit other companies.

    Do I need to go further?

    I didn't even say prolensis didn't work... just not the underhanded tactics utilize to discredit other companies to promote their product.
    lol hating is bad for your health my man....your statements are not only ignorant but un educated as well....go play with ur skin or whatever your plan was
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982

    You are out of your element.. been here for a few months and believe you know AM history.

    You know why those letters were starred out in your post? Because they were here and AM brass seen the backhanded nature of the company.

    YG is a product of such, and was a rep when they were here. You can search that company name and YGs name and see he is still a member of that team.

    RLS is that company, of which puts out propaganda pieces to discredit other companies.

    Do I need to go further?

    I didn't even say prolensis didn't work... just not the underhanded tactics utilize to discredit other companies to promote their product.
    Well I will go look. Thank you for that info. I like that company and their products but I do not like little ****ing plugs for products. I just want good products from legit companies why does this have to be so difficult? I start to discredit companies that go around plugging their products if they are a rep for that company. They are better off saying nothing at all! Don't they get that lol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You are out of your element.. been here for a few months and believe you know AM history.

    You know why those letters were starred out in your post? Because they were here and AM brass seen the backhanded nature of the company.

    YG is a product of such, and was a rep when they were here. You can search that company name and YGs name and see he is still a member of that team.

    RLS is that company, of which puts out propaganda pieces to discredit other companies.

    Do I need to go further?

    I didn't even say prolensis didn't work... just not the underhanded tactics utilize to discredit other companies to promote their product.
    backhanded nature of the company ? this is not true at all.

    there was some issue with a mod of another forum that is owned or operated by the same people as AM. some issues occured on that site.
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    8mg/kg in humans is still too high IMO, and this is with in house testing we performed to back this up.
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