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COMPANIES LEAVE OUT THE!!!! & INNOVATE

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    COMPANIES LEAVE OUT THE!!!! & INNOVATE


    90% of the formulations have Acesulfame potassium, aspartame, sucralose, artificial flavors, artificial coloring, etc. It is unnecessary to use these when their are natural and healthy alternatives like xylitol, stevia, etc.

    I will no longer buy products with these ingredients and choose instead to buy "clean" products such as PrimaForce offers. No I am not asking the companies to cater to me. I am wondering when they will wake up and realize that these ingredients are becoming and will be a thing of the past.

    Why not innovate your lines and become a leader in much more healthy formulations?

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    Xylitol and some other sweeteners can cause GI upset n diarrhea if u consume too much. I personally like Truvia, think its a healthier option in the artificial sweetener dept
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    The idea that something synthetic is automatically dangerous and that something natural is safe is asinine.
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    I'm a chemical engineer and worked with a company that modified a plant that made a certain sweetener. We were told to use respirators because this sweetener metabolized in the liver and a small portion converted to a chemical similar to a nerve gas derivative.

    While I agree that artificial doesn't automatically make something "bad" for you some if these "sweeteners" are definitely "not good" for you. So give us more options for supplements that use natural sweeteners like sugar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    The idea that something synthetic is automatically dangerous and that something natural is safe is asinine.
    Of course they are going to respond in this way. Do you think they want to spend all that money reformulating even if it is your health at stake

    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    I'm a chemical engineer and worked with a company that modified a plant that made a certain sweetener. We were told to use respirators because this sweetener metabolized in the liver and a small portion converted to a chemical similar to a nerve gas derivative.

    While I agree that artificial doesn't automatically make something "bad" for you some if these "sweeteners" are definitely "not good" for you. So give us more options for supplements that use natural sweeteners like sugar.
    It is nice to see an intelligent post here every once in a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    I'm a chemical engineer and worked with a company that modified a plant that made a certain sweetener. We were told to use respirators because this sweetener metabolized in the liver and a small portion converted to a chemical similar to a nerve gas derivative.

    While I agree that artificial doesn't automatically make something "bad" for you some if these "sweeteners" are definitely "not good" for you. So give us more options for supplements that use natural sweeteners like sugar.
    Sugar is a better alternative? How in the hell did you reach that conclusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff View Post
    Of course they are going to respond in this way. Do you think they want to spend all that money reformulating even if it is your health at stake
    Who is "they" and why are you acting like it is some massive collective effort to increase profits at the sake of the consumer? No company is forcing you to buy any supplement and whatever parameters you use is your business.
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    Hi Roja. Not saying that sugar is good for you. Just stating it is indeed better (in moderation) than some of these sweeteners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    Hi Roja. Not saying that sugar is good for you. Just stating it is indeed better (in moderation) than some of these sweeteners.
    The amount that would be needed to sweeten protein powders would no longer be moderate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    effort to increase profits at the sake of the consumer? .
    "Scratch a lie, find a thief"... These awful things like aspertame which when metabolized by the body becomes formaldehyde "embalming fluid" are cheaper to use than all natural healthy alternatives like stevia.

    In the order to make the most astronomical profit off of you the consumer this is what is used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills View Post
    "Scratch a lie, find a thief"... These awful things like aspertame which when metabolized by the body becomes formaldehyde "embalming fluid" are cheaper to use than all natural healthy alternatives like stevia.

    In the order to make the most astronomical profit off of you the consumer this is what is used.
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    You know that experiment/picture that was circulating a while back that had a plate of butter, smart balance, and margarine? The ants were all over the butter, there were a few attacking the smart balance, and the margarine had a few dead ants in it? Well, I had a similar experience happen a couple months ago. I had a bag of powdered stevia sweetner and a bag of splenda in the same box packed away. Some mice got into the box and demolished the stevia. There were some teeth marks in the splenda bag, but after the initial taste it seemed like they left it alone. That's got a say something.

    Now, I'm not one that buys into all the hype surrounding artificial sweetners and use them regularly without thinking twice about it. But there do seem to be some that are a little healthier/better than others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills View Post
    "Scratch a lie, find a thief"... These awful things like aspertame which when metabolized by the body becomes formaldehyde "embalming fluid" are cheaper to use than all natural healthy alternatives like stevia.

    In the order to make the most astronomical profit off of you the consumer this is what is used.
    Quote Originally Posted by supermanjow View Post
    You know that experiment/picture that was circulating a while back that had a plate of butter, smart balance, and margarine? The ants were all over the butter, there were a few attacking the smart balance, and the margarine had a few dead ants in it? Well, I had a similar experience happen a couple months ago. I had a bag of powdered stevia sweetner and a bag of splenda in the same box packed away. Some mice got into the box and demolished the stevia. There were some teeth marks in the splenda bag, but after the initial taste it seemed like they left it alone. That's got a say something.
    This now makes 3 perceptive post on one thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post



    Who is "they" and why are you acting like it is some massive collective effort to increase profits at the sake of the consumer? No company is forcing you to buy any supplement and whatever parameters you use is your business.
    Sure you didn't previously work for big tobacco?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff View Post
    Sure you didn't previously work for big tobacco?
    Please tell me you're not trying to equate artificial sweeteners to commercial tobacco. Is there an LD50 on aspartame, sucralose, acesulfame, etc. toxicity? Of course there is, however, you would have to take an astronomical amount of each of them daily to reach these doses. Considering that each of the commercially available forms of these (e.g. Splenda) are cut with maltodextrin and an anti-caking agent, you'd have to dump in bags of the stuff, which, let's be honest, is not happening. I find it somewhat hilarious that Truvia is gaining popularity when it is the brainchild of Cargill and Coca-Cola. When I think healthy options, I think Cargill and Coca-Cola.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    No company is forcing you to buy any supplement and whatever parameters you use is your business.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Please tell me you're not trying to equate artificial sweeteners to commercial tobacco.

    No I was equating your reasoning to that which has been used through the course of history as a sad excuse for shilling out unhealthy goods to an uninformed public to make a higher profit.
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    I'm not fond of artificial sweeteners, but I also realize some things like BCAA's and some proteins are very hard to flavor without them. I use Muscle Milk Naturals for this reason, even though I'm getting a little extra sugar. Then again, I'm not a competitive BBer so a few extra grams of sugar won't put a knot in my banana hammock
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff View Post
    No I was equating your reasoning to that which has been used through the course of history as a sad excuse for shilling out unhealthy goods to an uninformed public to make a higher profit.
    Got any other nice little factoids for us from Occupy Wallstreet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Got any other nice little factoids for us from Occupy Wallstreet?
    Lol, no I was not one of those that voted for Obama or occupied Wallstreet. Just a conservative businessman that likes to see good business practices. Not at all against capitalism but not at the expense of peoples health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I find it somewhat hilarious that Truvia is gaining popularity when it is the brainchild of Cargill and Coca-Cola. When I think healthy options, I think Cargill and Coca-Cola.
    I was going to mention this, but you beat me to it...lol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    For all of you afraid of artificial sweeteners and almost everything you touch or come in contact with....

    Attachment 71060


    Your new home.
    But you see T-Bone you must have some germs or your immune system will weaken and then BOOM the first thing you catch will do you in
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    For all of you afraid of artificial sweeteners and almost everything you touch or come in contact with....

    Attachment 71060


    Your new home.
    Need to get rid of oxygen as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Lmao!- You realize I'm just messing with you guys right?.
    Indeed These posts seem to pop up from time to time. My answer is that if a person feels that strongly about a subject and sees a market for something, they should go and make the product happen!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I find it somewhat hilarious that Truvia is gaining popularity when it is the brainchild of Cargill and Coca-Cola. When I think healthy options, I think Cargill and Coca-Cola.

    I agree that you don't think of Cargill and Coca-Coal with health but the fact is Truvia is a healthy product which is being made because their is a demand-"Don't throw the baby out with the bath water"
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills View Post
    I agree that you don't think of Cargill and Coca-Coal with health but the fact is Truvia is a healthy product which is being made because their is a demand-"Don't throw the baby out with the bath water"
    By whose standards?

    Are we talking about the same stuff that was found to be mutagenic in early studies? The same stuff showing infertility in rat models?

    Why is it considered healthy? Because it is from a leaf?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills View Post
    "Scratch a lie, find a thief"... These awful things like aspertame which when metabolized by the body becomes formaldehyde "embalming fluid" are cheaper to use than all natural healthy alternatives like stevia.

    In the order to make the most astronomical profit off of you the consumer this is what is used.
    people word it that way to make it sound scary there is nothing wrong with artificial sweeteners. methanol, aspartic acid, and phenylalanine, which is what your body metabolizes aspartame into, 2 are amino acids and methanol,which is what converts into formaldehyde, is naturally occuring in a lot of food. A serving of tomato juice provides about four to six times more methanol than the same amount of aspartame-sweetened beverage

    "
    Although the effects of these chemicals may sound scary, in reality an extremely unrealistically large amount of aspartame would need to be consumed before any of these compounds reach a dangerous level. The daily level that the FDA has set is 50 mg-aspartame/kg bodyweight. This amount is actually an extremely large amount. For example, a 150-pound person must consume 97 packets of dry sweetener, or 19 cans of diet soft drink, in one day to reach this level, while a 200-pound person must consume 130 packets, or 25 cans. Even though the FDA has set a daily maximum of 50mg aspartame/kg of bodyweight, the human body can actually safely process much more than this amount.
    As stated earlier we know that one of the by-products of aspartame is methanol which can break down into formaldehyde and formate and cause blindness and metabolic acidosis. However, the amount of aspartame necessary to reach levels to be this dangerous is immense. According to (Wahlen, 1998), in order for the body to accumulate enough formate to be toxic, a human must consume 200 to 500 mg of methanol /kg of bodyweight. 10% of the weight of aspartame converts to methanol; which would mean you would need to consume 2000 to 5000 mg of aspartame to reach those levels of methanol. This amount corresponds to drinking 600 to 1700 cans of diet soft drink in one sitting."
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    people word it that way to make it sound scary there is nothing wrong with artificial sweeteners. methanol, aspartic acid, and phenylalanine, which is what your body metabolizes aspartame into, 2 are amino acids and methanol,which is what converts into formaldehyde, is naturally occuring in a lot of food. A serving of tomato juice provides about four to six times more methanol than the same amount of aspartame-sweetened beverage

    "
    Although the effects of these chemicals may sound scary, in reality an extremely unrealistically large amount of aspartame would need to be consumed before any of these compounds reach a dangerous level. The daily level that the FDA has set is 50 mg-aspartame/kg bodyweight. This amount is actually an extremely large amount. For example, a 150-pound person must consume 97 packets of dry sweetener, or 19 cans of diet soft drink, in one day to reach this level, while a 200-pound person must consume 130 packets, or 25 cans. Even though the FDA has set a daily maximum of 50mg aspartame/kg of bodyweight, the human body can actually safely process much more than this amount.
    As stated earlier we know that one of the by-products of aspartame is methanol which can break down into formaldehyde and formate and cause blindness and metabolic acidosis. However, the amount of aspartame necessary to reach levels to be this dangerous is immense. According to (Wahlen, 1998), in order for the body to accumulate enough formate to be toxic, a human must consume 200 to 500 mg of methanol /kg of bodyweight. 10% of the weight of aspartame converts to methanol; which would mean you would need to consume 2000 to 5000 mg of aspartame to reach those levels of methanol. This amount corresponds to drinking 600 to 1700 cans of diet soft drink in one sitting."
    Google aspartame for youselves to find out the truth. Millions of people have had all kinds of advese reactions. I would link a handful of the many studies but don't have the posting power to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills

    Google aspartame for youselves to find out the truth. Millions of people have had all kinds of advese reactions. I would link a handful of the many studies but don't have the posting power to do so.
    People have adverse reactions to vitamin C.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer
    Hi Roja. Not saying that sugar is good for you. Just stating it is indeed better (in moderation) than some of these sweeteners.
    That is debatable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills View Post
    Google aspartame for youself to find out the truth. Millions of people have had all kinds of advese reactions. I would link a handful of studies but don't have the posting power to do so.
    there is absolutely no link between aspartame and any health risks dude..there are no controlled clinical trials that link any type of health risk to the use of artificial sweetners. And ones that do are with rats and require an insane amount of consumption and we all know the problems with observational studies so i wont go there
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    there is absolutely no link between aspartame and any health risks dude..there are no controlled clinical trials that link any type of health risk to the use of artificial sweetners. And ones that do are with rats and require an insane amount of consumption and we all know the problems with observational studies so i wont go there
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    Good reads here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    there is absolutely no link between aspartame and any health risks dude..there are no controlled clinical trials that link any type of health risk to the use of artificial sweetners. And ones that do are with rats and require an insane amount of consumption and we all know the problems with observational studies so i wont go there
    Aspartame has been linked to health problems in many studies. I personally know people who get violent headaches when partaking of something that they are unaware has aspartame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff View Post
    Aspartame has been linked to health problems in many studies. I personally know people who get violent headaches when partaking of something that they are unaware has aspartame.
    I know kids who will suffer from eating a peanut....
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris223 View Post
    People have adverse reactions to vitamin C.
    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I know kids who will suffer from eating a peanut....
    These are the kinds of post that dumb down the forum impeding constructive debate
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff

    These are the kinds of post that dumb down the forum impeding constructive debate
    I thought Adams made a good point to be honest....

    Edit: matter of fact they both made sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff View Post
    Aspartame has been linked to health problems in many studies. I personally know people who get violent headaches when partaking of something that they are unaware has aspartame.
    i guess i might have to explain why i didnt address OBSERVATIONAL studies..as i said there are no controlled clinical trials that links aspartame to any sort of health risks. Observational studies have way too many variables to always come up with an accurate conclusion such as people thinking that using zero calorie sweetener justifies or offsets eating a ton of calories
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift View Post
    I thought Adams made a good point to be honest....

    Edit: matter of fact they both made sense.
    When a debate is taking place. It really does not matter what the debate. For our case lets just say we are discussing the benefits and antioxidants in dark chocolate. Then in jumps Sammy with his red herring of chocolate being bad for dogs. Vit. C nor peanuts are under discussion these are simply thrown in the mix to muddy the waters.
    "hey man who knows if aspartame is bad or not but who cares when you can have to much C" "yeah dude peanuts cause reactions in certain people so the fact that aspartame is unhealthy is not valid."
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff View Post
    These are the kinds of post that dumb down the forum impeding constructive debate
    You come here making highly variable opinions with no research besides what you heard.

    My comment was very pertinent to the debate because you are throwing out a useless fact about your friends who get headache from a diet coke.

    I know people who fart from milk.

    You know what they have in common with this debate? Nothing.

    if you want to make useless general comments that you think are supporting your claim, just expect an equally ridiculous comment back. Now post up some real information from a credible source and we can discuss it.

    Post up your "bad " research of the ones you think are bad, and away we will go.

    From my gathering, you support the OPs premise. Of which promoting the use of say stevia over sucralose... of which stevia has research showing infertility in rat models, and being a possible DNA mutagen.

    A. Yamada et al.: Chronic toxicity study of dietary stevia extracts in F344 rats. J. Food Hyg Soc Japan 26:169-183, 1985.




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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseNstuff View Post
    When a debate is taking place. It really does not matter what the debate. For our case lets just say we are discussing the benefits and antioxidants in dark chocolate. Then in jumps Sammy with his red herring of chocolate being bad for dogs. Vit. C nor peanuts are under discussion these are simply thrown in the mix to muddy the waters.
    "hey man who knows if aspartame is bad or not but who cares when you can have to much C" "yeah dude peanuts cause reactions in certain people so the fact that aspartame is unhealthy is not valid."
    im sure they were trying to illustrate the fact that anyone can have a reaction to anything because everyones body is differnt so to say that aspartame is unhealthy jus because a few people may or might have have experienced side effects is just like saying because some people go into anaphalactic shock after eating a peanut they are therefore unhealthy? just look at all the facts i have provided bro.yet those who are trying to argue the facts have not provided any of your own
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You come here making highly variable opinions with no research besides what you heard.

    My comment was very pertinent to the debate because you are throwing out a useless fact about your friends who get headache from a diet coke.

    I know people who fart from milk.

    You know what they have in common with this debate? Nothing.

    if you want to make useless general comments that you think are supporting your claim, just expect an equally ridiculous comment back. Now post up some real information from a credible source and we can discuss it.

    Post up your "bad " research of the ones you think are bad, and away we will go.



    From my gathering, you support the OPs premise. Of which promoting the use of say stevia over sucralose... of which stevia has research showing infertility in rat models, and being a possible DNA mutagen.



    A. Yamada et al.: Chronic toxicity study of dietary stevia extracts in F344 rats. J. Food Hyg Soc Japan 26:169-183, 1985.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=Pub Med&list_uids=9598301&dopt=Abs tract


    damn i wish i could rep you again..these guys are rediculous
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You come here making highly variable opinions with no research besides what you heard.

    My comment was very pertinent to the debate because you are throwing out a useless fact about your friends who get headache from a diet coke.

    I know people who fart from milk.

    You know what they have in common with this debate? Nothing.

    if you want to make useless general comments that you think are supporting your claim, just expect an equally ridiculous comment back. Now post up some real information from a credible source and we can discuss it.

    Post up your "bad " research of the ones you think are bad, and away we will go.

    From my gathering, you support the OPs premise. Of which promoting the use of say stevia over sucralose... of which stevia has research showing infertility in rat models, and being a possible DNA mutagen.
    I can't believe you posted an article by David Schardt of all people. You know people who fart from milk? Very mature. I do not have the posting power to link, furthermore I am on no crusade here to take the time to translate these studies here myself. It is enough for me to know that those who are following this thread and are concerned about their health have had this brought to their attention, to research or not. To find out for themselves.
  

  
 

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