pros & cons of "pumps"? hemavol?

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    pros & cons of "pumps"? hemavol?


    hey guys- so i have some questions about pumps, and the definitions that may differ between people

    so, why are pumps desirable? what health/performance benefits, if any, do pumps give you?
    why might they not be desirable?

    if someone is mainly looking for athletic/functional performance, are pumps something they may want?

    this was brought on by reading threads about hemavol being a great pre-workout for energy, and also giving insane pumps? im not sure i understand because i thought having too many pumps decreases function, in that the muscles are too swollen to perform correctly. but i like the idea of a non-stim pre-workout that gives a lot of energy.
    how could i get this non-stim energy without the debilitating pumps?

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    Lower back pumps suck when doing deadlifts and such. I stopped taking any "pump" product on deadlift day, it was so bad on time I had to lay on the gym floor for 10 minutes, I couldn't even walk.

    A pro would be the fact that for me anyhow, a good pump helps with that mind muscle connection. I find I get more out of some movements when I am getting a good pump. Especially upper back and shoulder work.
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    pump = mental orgasm. very powerful placebo, but just that. there really isnt any benefit to it
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    Curious as to the feedback & responses.
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    While ingredients like agmatine and cit-mal are great for producing that "pump" feeling.............they also have a lot of evidence backing them as performance enhancers. can help with endurance, recovery.....agmatine can even effect mood, and a few other things


    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/agmatine-sulfate/ <<<, good quick read on agmatine.....for more info you could try looking through mr.cooper's posts, most of what i know about agmatine, ive learned from him

    theres plenty of studies on cit-mal on pubmed as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderHumper View Post
    pump = mental orgasm. very powerful placebo, but just that. there really isnt any benefit to it
    This statement could not be more inaccurate. The main active pump product in Hemavol (citrulline malate) has been proven effective for performance enhancement in several human trials.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    hey guys- so i have some questions about pumps, and the definitions that may differ between people

    so, why are pumps desirable? what health/performance benefits, if any, do pumps give you?
    why might they not be desirable?

    if someone is mainly looking for athletic/functional performance, are pumps something they may want?

    this was brought on by reading threads about hemavol being a great pre-workout for energy, and also giving insane pumps? im not sure i understand because i thought having too many pumps decreases function, in that the muscles are too swollen to perform correctly. but i like the idea of a non-stim pre-workout that gives a lot of energy.
    how could i get this non-stim energy without the debilitating pumps?
    Completely anectodal, but I remember one time I had a pump so absolutely massive in my upper pecs, lats, and triceps from incline benching that I still to this day believe that I managed to get a rep even after I was certain I hit failure purely because the pump was strong enough to force the weight up off of itself. All I took was caffeine, though, for this effect. No "pump" products.
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Completely anectodal, but I remember one time I had a pump so absolutely massive in my upper pecs, lats, and triceps from incline benching that I still to this day believe that I managed to get a rep even after I was certain I hit failure purely because the pump was strong enough to force the weight up off of itself. All I took was caffeine, though, for this effect. No "pump" products.
    Caffeine is a strong vasodilator in muscle tissue during exercise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Caffeine is a strong vasodilator in muscle tissue during exercise.
    Yup. Sorry, I just meant to distinguish it from the batch of products often marketed as pump products. It's strange, but Agmatine(sp) and caffeine are the only things that have ever given me appreciable pumps that I could feel (as opposed to something like Ragnorok that makes my veins really pop out, but I just dont feel my muscles swelling). Haven't tried Creatine/BCAA Nitrates (and don't plan to!)
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Yup. Sorry, I just meant to distinguish it from the batch of products often marketed as pump products. It's strange, but Agmatine(sp) and caffeine are the only things that have ever given me appreciable pumps that I could feel (as opposed to something like Ragnorok that makes my veins really pop out, but I just dont feel my muscles swelling). Haven't tried Creatine/BCAA Nitrates (and don't plan to!)
    Ragnorak doesn't really have any ingredients that are dosed adequately to produce a pump, so this comes as no surprise. The improved vascularity was likely just a result of pushing yourself at a faster pace due to the other ingredients in ragnorak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Ragnorak doesn't really have any ingredients that are dosed adequately to produce a pump, so this comes as no surprise. The improved vascularity was likely just a result of pushing yourself at a faster pace due to the other ingredients in ragnorak.
    But it taste great!
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    I have a love hate relationship with them for reasons described. When my arms, chest, back gets too pumped its difficult for me to fully peak out a motion. Now in some cases like the big lifts of squats, barbell rows, shrugs, bench press, etc this has little negative as I'm going for power but when more concentrated motions and stretching motions it can become a burden.

    Check out N.O. Uptake - I'm a big fan of Hemavol (especially stacked with RPM) but NO Uptake has a very unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Caffeine is a strong vasodilator in muscle tissue during exercise.
    I know the word vasodilator and caffeine in the same sentence is throwing him for a serious loop!

    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    Check out N.O. Uptake - I'm a big fan of Hemavol (especially stacked with RPM) but NO Uptake has a very unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel.
    Could you elaborate on this? Not sure I follow
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Could you elaborate on this? Not sure I follow
    Its simple really, just follow the general rule of flux capacitation and when you reach 88 reps per minute of your previous 1RM with 100%ROM you will be sent back 30 years into the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    I have a love hate relationship with them for reasons described. When my arms, chest, back gets too pumped its difficult for me to fully peak out a motion. Now in some cases like the big lifts of squats, barbell rows, shrugs, bench press, etc this has little negative as I'm going for power but when more concentrated motions and stretching motions it can become a burden.

    Check out N.O. Uptake - I'm a big fan of Hemavol (especially stacked with RPM) but NO Uptake has a very unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel.
    LOL - OP asks about HemaVol...company rep instead offers his new product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    LOL - OP asks about HemaVol...company rep instead offers his new product.
    LOL HemaVol FTW!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicesoldier View Post
    LOL HemaVol FTW!!!!
    this, as far as pumps and endurance go it's tough to beat hemavol. i never train without it
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    I was actually being serious with my post since it makes no sense, biologically speaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    I was actually being serious with my post since it makes no sense, biologically speaking.
    Bump!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I was actually being serious with my post since it makes no sense, biologically speaking.
    Normally it doesn't. I've been aware of theobromine, the metabolite of caffeine you're probably alluding to, for a while though. Ever since I was young, I always got "strange" effects from caffeine compared to others, and when I looked into it I found out the primary effects I get are related to theobromine. I guess I just metabolize caffeine faster, and much more so working out (don't know if the last statement is true or not, just a guess).
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    Red face Proprietary Garbage


    I have a few points of contention with vasodilation products.

    Firstly, they are marketed primarily for aesthetic purposes. There are very few that actually utilize the full potential of vasodilation with the addition of nutrients (macro/micro) which take advantage of the increased perfusion that occurs between capillaries and adjacent cells.

    People tend to associate stimulation with positive outcomes; a few popular products on the market have some level of vasodilation (usually in the form of AAKG) and caffeine (or previously DMAA). Respectively to provide you with an aesthetic pump and to stimulate your system.


    Secondly, proprietary blends are a joke guys. The researcher/formulation expert who conducted the initial studies, that supplement companies utilize to formulate their products from also provide data as to the level of compound necessary in a product to elicit the appropriate systemic response. For example: research suggests that 3 Grams of AAKG is the minimum necessary to provide the user with the level of vasodilation that will yield a result or observable difference. Proprietary blends mention numerous amounts of product in their formulation without disclosing the exact dosage of each component. A friend of mine is a biochemist and has access to a gas spectrometer, he lab tested 3 popular vasodilation products, they contained between 1-1.6grams of AAKG. Far less than recommended by research to provide the user with the response they are hoping and paying for. Which may be the reason your not experiencing a real pump effect?

    If your not feeling the intended effect of the product you payed hard earned money for, you may wish to try a product that provides you with the label of TRUTH. Steer clear of proprietary blends, they are for making profit. Not all are bad, use your judgement; does it claim to contain 50 compounds and cost 40$, probably not effective or grossly underdosed.

    Sorry for such a lengthy rant but I've been in the fitness and medical industry for over 25 years in many facets.
    It is VERY VERY profitable, do your research before spending your cash.

    If your looking for a very good quality vasoproduct, there is a new boutique-type company producing a product called Tsunami Strike.
    I think it's one of the best I have come across as far as results, the company is new and trying to make a mark in the industry. I have used over 10 poplar products, this IMO is the best and my favorite.

    I am in no way trolling other products, merely explaining my perspective as others have done for me in the past. If I were a younger person starting out, I wish I had more advice earlier on in my career to guide me in the most productive direction.
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    Just used 10 tablets of hemavol( 1 serving) with 1 scoop of jacked pre workout yesterday. Omg my muscles were engorged for hours..even an hour after my workout my muscles were filled..honestly it was cool but a little uncomfortable lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Normally it doesn't. I've been aware of theobromine, the metabolite of caffeine you're probably alluding to, for a while though. Ever since I was young, I always got "strange" effects from caffeine compared to others, and when I looked into it I found out the primary effects I get are related to theobromine. I guess I just metabolize caffeine faster, and much more so working out (don't know if the last statement is true or not, just a guess).
    im pretty sure coop was talking about "unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel." that
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    im pretty sure coop was talking about "unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel." that
    Oh! I missed that post. Hahaha! It sounds like a troll post. I can't make any sense out of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Oh! I missed that post. Hahaha! It sounds like a troll post. I can't make any sense out of it.
    well it wouldnt make much sense for a company rep to troll his own product
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    well it wouldnt make much sense for a company rep to troll his own product
    The explanation he gave just sounds absurd.

    Reminds me of a guy from another forum asking whether using a pinky rotation counterclockwise to the hypotenuse of the horizon was the most optimal for performing reverse-grip one handed cable tricep kickbacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    The explanation he gave just sounds absurd.

    Reminds me of a guy from another forum asking whether using a pinky rotation counterclockwise to the hypotenuse of the horizon was the most optimal for performing reverse-grip one handed cable tricep kickbacks.

    can you find me a square muffler bearing?
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    loved hemavol from the first time i tried it
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    Quote Originally Posted by willib View Post
    loved hemavol from the first time i tried it
    Dont we all
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