Using Mucuna pruiens for a long time

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by jerrysiii View Post
    If you're using the HGHpro to help stimulate growth hormone, you may want to try a some GABA and arginine right before bed. You could cycle this stack when you're off the other product.
    Increasing GH release really isn't worth pursuing for body composition purposes, and you would need an absurd (20+g) dose of arginine to elicit such a response...a dose which is more likely to send you to the toilet than positively affect body composition. GABA is pretty sweet though and aids quite a bit in relaxation and sleep quality.


  2. This applies to bulk 1-carboxy as well?

    I cycle this eod, could you do this indeffinitely?
    Psalms 62:1-62:2
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    This applies to bulk 1-carboxy as well?

    I cycle this eod, could you do this indeffinitely?
    If I'm not mistaking 1-carboxy = L-Dopa
    So if I'm not totally in the woods the same dosing protocol as suggested in post #21 applies

    Edit: Have a look at this: Whats the difference between L-Dopa and 1-carboxy?
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You cannot compare PD patients, who suffer from LOSS of presynaptic dopaminergic neurons, to someone who is healthy and is now producing an excess of dopamine from a normal cell count. Also, the effects are not only dose dependent but also TIME-dependent, hence why cycling of l-dopa is necessary
    Let me first start by saying UUUGHHHH!!!! This is why I hate that mucuna is referred to as L-DOPA.

    OP, yes you should cycle off, but should be completely fine.

    Mucuna pruriens is NOT the same thing as somebody who is taking Levodopa and studies on one are not interchangeable with the other. Why and how are they different? Nobody seems to know and if you can find articles that says different, please point me in their direction. In the early 2000's there seemed to be some interest in Mucuna for Parkinson's, but nobody is really even looking at it anymore. I really do wish we could come up with a different term for it before somebody on the boards finds grandpa's medicine and starts using it with horrible results.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Let me first start by saying UUUGHHHH!!!! This is why I hate that mucuna is referred to as L-DOPA.

    OP, yes you should cycle off, but should be completely fine.

    Mucuna pruriens is NOT the same thing as somebody who is taking Levodopa and studies on one are not interchangeable with the other. Why and how are they different? Nobody seems to know and if you can find articles that says different, please point me in their direction. In the early 2000's there seemed to be some interest in Mucuna for Parkinson's, but nobody is really even looking at it anymore. I really do wish we could come up with a different term for it before somebody on the boards finds grandpa's medicine and starts using it with horrible results.
    I believe this is due to the presence of mu opioids and other constituents of the plant. However, this specific extract (99%) is 99% levodopa. If we were talking about one of the more common, lower % extracts, it would be a different story entirely (hence why Inhibit-P is considered safe for longterm use). Why would researchers continue pursuing mucuna pruriens when levodopa can be readily synthesized from a pharmaceutical company? That's where the money, and the guaranteed quality, is at, after all.

    Here is a free text on a clinical trial finding mucuna pruriens as effective as L-dopa for PD symptom treatment: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1738871/. In fact, it was more effective. But what's the important message? It was standardized for 4.86% L-dopa. When you're essentially taking the pure compound as in the case of AI HGHPro (who knows if it's even a plant extract at a whopping 99% purity anyway), it is more than likely going to behave exactly as pure l-dopa.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I believe this is due to the presence of mu opioids and other constituents of the plant. However, this specific extract (99%) is 99% levodopa. If we were talking about one of the more common, lower % extracts, it would be a different story entirely (hence why Inhibit-P is considered safe for longterm use). Why would researchers continue pursuing mucuna pruriens when levodopa can be readily synthesized from a pharmaceutical company? That's where the money, and the guaranteed quality, is at, after all.

    Here is a free text on a clinical trial finding mucuna pruriens as effective as L-dopa for PD treatment: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1738871/
    There is money in it because nobody else has come up with anything better, but the side effects completely suck. They give Carbidopa to help, but it doesn't do much. We give L-DOPA/Carbidopa to the rats and they still get horrible dyskinesias. L-DOPA is the key still, but we still need something better to give along side with it and they were hoping that was in mucuna at one point. The money would be figuring out exactly what is was That trial looked promising, but was 2004. I don't think I've even seen a poster in the last 2 years let alone an article.

    I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just honestly have a fear that one day somebody is going to post that they took Levodopa!
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  7. I usually take 2 of the NOW L-dopa (800mg mucuna/velvet bean) which equates to 120mg L-dopa, since its a standardized extract. I also usually take 800mg of 1-carboxy as well. That might be overkill though.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    There is money in it because nobody else has come up with anything better, but the side effects completely suck. They give Carbidopa to help, but it doesn't do much. We give L-DOPA/Carbidopa to the rats and they still get horrible dyskinesias. L-DOPA is the key still, but we still need something better to give along side with it and they were hoping that was in mucuna at one point. The money would be figuring out exactly what is was That trial looked promising, but was 2004. I don't think I've even seen a poster in the last 2 years let alone an article.

    I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just honestly have a fear that one day somebody is going to post that they took Levodopa!
    Not hijacking at all, great post. So why do you think pursuit of mucuna was stopped? And I agree, it's all about combating:

    1. Loss of efficacy over time during the honeymoon period
    2. Minimizing side effects

  9. I'm sorry............but I'm going to have to insist that you feller's take this conversation over to the supplement science section

  10. I often wonder if higher doses of 1-carboxy and mucuna/l-dopa (plus green tea extract and maybe P-5-P) would work just as well for AAS cycles incorporating tren or deca, instead of having to use caber or prami.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Not hijacking at all, great post. So why do you think pursuit of mucuna was stopped? And I agree, it's all about combating:

    1. Loss of efficacy over time during the honeymoon period
    2. Minimizing side effects
    If I had to guess I would say that somebody higher up the ladder told them that they need to figure out why this plant was doing what it was doing before clinicals were going to go any further. The researchers make crap money (yay me lol), but they have to be funded and a company is going to want to fund something that they can make, not something that people can grow. I am very pro-pharm companies having seen behind the curtain and how much money they put into research, but at the end of the day, they are a business. Sometimes these projects just hit a dead end because the people in charge of funding (either private or government) see something shiny and want to do that instead.

    Pfizer and some brilliant, young, extremely handsome scientist (who doesn't get paid Pfizer-level money) should have a paper out by the end of the year...depending on reviewers.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast
    It turns me on when Coop talks in scientific terms
    Aleksandar gets me off scientifically ....i guess its like women....everybody has a different type

  13. great topic. The reason I decided not to take the drug Welbutrin was I was afraid of permanent dopamine shutdown. I just started Now brand mucuna as part of a libido stack and will be cycling it but not sure how. I can't seem to find doasges that work for people for libido? I'm taking 2 caps 3xday on empty stomach for a total of 360mg L-Dopa. I read somewhere that 1500mg is an upper limit for safety. Been on for three days along with longjack,maca,goji and tribulus.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    2 months on, 1 month off is a good starting point. The effects on prolactin are pretty much immediate, so you can use it right at the start of PCT. If you co-supplement with 5HTP, you can probably go up to 3 months on l-dopa if the dose is low.
    If the effects on prolactin is immediate can u just take l dopa after intercourse and not everyday just to prevent the rise of prolactin right after sex

  15. Quote Originally Posted by squatting View Post
    If the effects on prolactin is immediate can u just take l dopa after intercourse and not everyday just to prevent the rise of prolactin right after sex
    I guess, but why? Some people use it exclusively for this purpose as it anecdotally reduces the refractory period

  16. coop, you said inhibit-P ise safe to use on the long term because of the right dosage of mucuna (Mucuna Pruriens (60% L-Dopa) 150 mg for 1 cap), right ?

    So what about endosurge ?
    for 2 caps and they recommand to take it 3 times daily.
    Mucuna pruriens 75% L-Dopa 83 mg
    Mucuna pruriens 25% L-Dopa 100 mg

    Wouldn't it be way to much ?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by nergy View Post
    coop, you said inhibit-P ise safe to use on the long term because of the right dosage of mucuna (Mucuna Pruriens (60% L-Dopa) 150 mg for 1 cap), right ?

    So what about endosurge ?
    for 2 caps and they recommand to take it 3 times daily.
    Mucuna pruriens 75% L-Dopa 83 mg
    Mucuna pruriens 25% L-Dopa 100 mg

    Wouldn't it be way to much ?
    Relative to therapeutic doses of l-dopa, endosurge isn't really all that high. I'd feel free to use it up to 8 weeks on end before taking a 4 week break.

  18. so how come is endosurge higher dosed than inhibit-P ?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by nergy View Post
    so how come is endosurge higher dosed than inhibit-P ?
    Because Inhibit-P is a full spectrum prolactin control complex. The vitex agnus castus extract, for instance, is loaded with compounds that reduce prolactin. Mucuna pruriens is the sole prolactin control ingredient in endosurge.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Because Inhibit-P is a full spectrum prolactin control complex. The vitex agnus castus extract, for instance, is loaded with compounds that reduce prolactin. Mucuna pruriens is the sole prolactin control ingredient in endosurge.

    so endosurge may not be the best choice for prolactin control ?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by nergy View Post
    so endosurge may not be the best choice for prolactin control ?
    Correct for longterm use, which is fine, because endosurge is not intended for that purpose.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Because Inhibit-P is a full spectrum prolactin control complex. The vitex agnus castus extract, for instance, is loaded with compounds that reduce prolactin. Mucuna pruriens is the sole prolactin control ingredient in endosurge.
    Would it be ok to just take inhibit once a day ? I read vitex should be taken in high doses cause low doses result in unwanted effects . Is there enough l dopa to take inhibit once a day or u won't recommend it

  23. Quote Originally Posted by squatting View Post
    Would it be ok to just take inhibit once a day ? I read vitex should be taken in high doses cause low doses result in unwanted effects . Is there enough l dopa to take inhibit once a day or u won't recommend it
    On the contrary, lower doses of Vitex prevent potential issues. Higher doses have been found to do nothing for prolactin, which is why this specific dose and extract was used. Once a day is perfect.

  24. Thanks homie
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