Supplement Advice: Too much or not enough?

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    Supplement Advice: Too much or not enough?


    Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

    I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

    Age: 33
    Height: 5'11"
    Weight: ~187lbs.
    Body Fat: 19-20%
    Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

    What I am taking:

    Bupropion (stressfull year)
    Propecia - 1mg
    Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
    Toco-8 - 1.26g
    Astaxanthin - 12mg
    Whey Protein Isolate
    Whey Protein Concentrate
    Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
    Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until itís gone.)
    Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
    Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
    ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
    Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
    Pygeum - 100mg
    DAA Powder - ~3g
    Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
    L-DOPA - 120mg
    Damiana - 450mg x 2
    AAKG - 1500mg
    OKG - 500mg
    Creatine - ~4g
    Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
    L-Carnosine - 500mg
    Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

    Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

    Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

    My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17
    Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

    I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

    Age: 33
    Height: 5'11"
    Weight: ~187lbs.
    Body Fat: 19-20%
    Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

    What I am taking:

    Bupropion (stressfull year)
    Propecia - 1mg
    Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
    Toco-8 - 1.26g
    Astaxanthin - 12mg
    Whey Protein Isolate
    Whey Protein Concentrate
    Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
    Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until itís gone.)
    Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
    Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
    ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
    Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
    Pygeum - 100mg
    DAA Powder - ~3g
    Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
    L-DOPA - 120mg
    Damiana - 450mg x 2
    AAKG - 1500mg
    OKG - 500mg
    Creatine - ~4g
    Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
    L-Carnosine - 500mg
    Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

    Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

    Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

    My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.
    Holy Jesus! You made of money bro??

    The best advice as far as supplementing at this stage (assuming diet is in check) is to keep it simple. Protein, creatine, maybe preworkouts. You can use the DAA just be sure to cycle it and the OEP is a good product. But most of that is unnecessary dollars spent!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

    I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

    Age: 33
    Height: 5'11"
    Weight: ~187lbs.
    Body Fat: 19-20%
    Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

    What I am taking:

    Bupropion (stressfull year)
    Propecia - 1mg
    Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
    Toco-8 - 1.26g
    Astaxanthin - 12mg
    Whey Protein Isolate
    Whey Protein Concentrate
    Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
    Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
    Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
    Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
    ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
    Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
    Pygeum - 100mg
    DAA Powder - ~3g
    Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
    L-DOPA - 120mg
    Damiana - 450mg x 2
    AAKG - 1500mg
    OKG - 500mg
    Creatine - ~4g
    Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
    L-Carnosine - 500mg
    Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

    Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

    Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

    My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.
    not exactly my prefered choice in supplements but everyones different so i say if you can afford it then go for it, but i see a lot of things in there that look like test/libido enhancers which you would definitely want to cycle off of. and then aakg, okg, and carnosine just seem kind of useless, try maybe citrulline or agmatine instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17
    Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

    I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

    Age: 33
    Height: 5'11"
    Weight: ~187lbs.
    Body Fat: 19-20%
    Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

    What I am taking:

    Bupropion (stressfull year)
    Propecia - 1mg
    Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
    Toco-8 - 1.26g
    Astaxanthin - 12mg
    Whey Protein Isolate
    Whey Protein Concentrate
    Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
    Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until itís gone.)
    Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
    Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
    ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
    Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
    Pygeum - 100mg
    DAA Powder - ~3g
    Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
    L-DOPA - 120mg
    Damiana - 450mg x 2
    AAKG - 1500mg
    OKG - 500mg
    Creatine - ~4g
    Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
    L-Carnosine - 500mg
    Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

    Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

    Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

    My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.
    Dang boy!
    Finish what u got and then go to basics. Protein, oat meal, multi, fish oil.
    I like the daa, erase, toco8
    But those are not staples.
    Good luck. Inner city NY?
    GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/231867-man-sports-gameday.html#post4047619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2542 View Post
    Holy Jesus! You made of money bro??

    The best advice as far as supplementing at this stage (assuming diet is in check) is to keep it simple. Protein, creatine, maybe preworkouts. You can use the DAA just be sure to cycle it and the OEP is a good product. But most of that is unnecessary dollars spent!
    Made of money? Ha! No, I am a public school teacher, but I am frugal so that I can spend money when/where I need to. But, I thought I might be overdoing it...

    I hear you on cycling the DAA, my understanding is that I should only go up to 8 weeks? I am loving the OEP... It's insanely good.

    Which preworkouts would you recommend?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericool007 View Post
    not exactly my prefered choice in supplements but everyones different so i say if you can afford it then go for it, but i see a lot of things in there that look like test/libido enhancers which you would definitely want to cycle off of. and then aakg, okg, and carnosine just seem kind of useless, try maybe citrulline or agmatine instead.
    Hey, Thanks for the heads up on Agmatine... Once I am finished with all my AAKG & Carnosine, I will definitely try it out. As for the "preferred choice of supplements" - is there something that you might recommend in lieu of that which I am taking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01 View Post
    Dang boy!
    Finish what u got and then go to basics. Protein, oat meal, multi, fish oil.
    I like the daa, erase, toco8
    But those are not staples.
    Good luck. Inner city NY?
    Hey, Thanks for the advice. I thought I should consult the experts. Your plan is much cheaper. However, until this is all gone... As far as you can see, there isn't anything that might interfere with anything else?

    No I am not in NY, although I loved living there, I am teaching on the other coast, in Oakland.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    Age: 33
    Height: 5'11"
    Weight: ~187lbs.
    Body Fat: 19-20%
    Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

    What I am taking:

    Bupropion (stressfull year)
    Propecia - 1mg
    Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
    Toco-8 - 1.26g
    Astaxanthin - 12mg
    Whey Protein Isolate
    Whey Protein Concentrate
    Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
    Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
    Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
    Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
    ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
    Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
    Pygeum - 100mg
    DAA Powder - ~3g
    Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
    L-DOPA - 120mg

    Damiana - 450mg x 2
    AAKG - 1500mg
    OKG - 500mg

    Creatine - ~4g
    Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
    L-Carnosine - 500mg
    Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day
    FISH OIL
    I would get rid of all the red things, cycle the underlined stuff, double or triple up the dosage of RK if its intended for weight loss, use 95% extract forskolin(c-bolic). I would probably use ephedrine/caffine istead of OEP. and if i was a little husky I would also add something Like abliderate advanced, TTA, and some form of carnitine preferably PLC or LCLT.

    Thats what i mean by preferred choice take it with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions lol
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    The number one thing I would get rid of above all else is that godamn poison they call propecia. It is by far the worst drug I have ever taken, even if some of the other things you are taking possibly counteract the sides. I advise any one I hear taking it to get off unless absolutely needed as in your doctor will shoot you if you come off. It can cause gyno, impotence, hinder your gains( dht is needed for both fat loss and muscle building, and just generally wreak havoc on your hormone profile. I took it for a month and hated it. Aside from that nothing your taking is dangerous, even the bupropion is safe in comparison to the propecia. Just my 2 cents
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericool007 View Post
    I would get rid of all the red things, cycle the underlined stuff, double or triple up the dosage of RK if its intended for weight loss, use 95% extract forskolin(c-bolic). I would probably use ephedrine/caffine istead of OEP. and if i was a little husky I would also add something Like abliderate advanced, TTA, and some for of carnitine preferably PLC or LCLT.

    Thats what i mean by preferred choice take it with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions lol
    Hey, Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out - this was incredibly clear!

    I have concerns about ephedra... I realize that DMAA has issues too, but I just stocked up on OEP. And, I am looking into your other recommendations too. As for Fish Oil, I am looking for a vegetarian equivalent. Have you heard of anything that might be a good vegetarian substitute? I am looking at the "Total EFA by Health from the Sun."

    Thanks again!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123 View Post
    The number one thing I would get rid of above all else is that godamn poison they call propecia. It is by far the worst drug I have ever taken, even if some of the other things you are taking possibly counteract the sides. I advise any one I hear taking it to get off unless absolutely needed as in your doctor will shoot you if you come off. It can cause gyno, impotence, hinder your gains( dht is needed for both fat loss and muscle building, and just generally wreak havoc on your hormone profile. I took it for a month and hated it. Aside from that nothing your taking is dangerous, even the bupropion is safe in comparison to the propecia. Just my 2 cents
    I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.
    ah that would make sense as to why you had so many libido increasing sups if you come off those and stay on propecia: of which i forgot about the impotency it causes, you might just need to get prescribed viagra or somtin lol.

    i feel you though I wouldnt want to lose my hair either so i could see why one would take propecia even if it turns you into a woman lol

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/mandi-mckee-william-propecia-baldness-drug-woman_n_1695706.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17

    I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.
    Hair thing is totally understandable man, I just loathe that drug. Don't despair however, there are methods to stem hair loss, albeit a bit more complicated. My regimen consists of toco-8 which is actually effective believe it or not, topical spiro shampoo and nizoral shampoo, as well as rogaine. Is it an annoying ritual, yes very much so, but it has been effective in stemming pretty rapid shedding at some points. Thing is with or without propecia or rogaine, those prone to it will eventually lose their hair, no question, these drugs simply delay what is sadly inevitable. My suggestion, coming from a guy fighting the same battle is to drop the propecia, continue the test boosting supps, get blood work to determine the effects of the propecia, try my regimen and look at other alternatives of course and save up for a transplant. Transplant is actually the best bet pit of all these things although the most expensive
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    Do u think toco8 helps at all
    GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123

    Hair thing is totally understandable man, I just loathe that drug. Don't despair however, there are methods to stem hair loss, albeit a bit more complicated. My regimen consists of toco-8 which is actually effective believe it or not, topical spiro shampoo and nizoral shampoo, as well as rogaine. Is it an annoying ritual, yes very much so, but it has been effective in stemming pretty rapid shedding at some points. Thing is with or without propecia or rogaine, those prone to it will eventually lose their hair, no question, these drugs simply delay what is sadly inevitable. My suggestion, coming from a guy fighting the same battle is to drop the propecia, continue the test boosting supps, get blood work to determine the effects of the propecia, try my regimen and look at other alternatives of course and save up for a transplant. Transplant is actually the best bet pit of all these things although the most expensive
    100% correct....propecia is poison and spiro /azelaic acid/rogaine/nizoral is the way to go despite the PITA of topical application .....for prevention at least, which is where i am at...
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01
    Do u think toco8 helps at all
    Hey, I have heard good things about TOCO-8; but the study that showed a decrease in shedding was based on a different form of Tocomin. I just started with the TOCO-8; I'll keep you posted on any changes - good or bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    100% correct....propecia is poison and spiro /azelaic acid/rogaine/nizoral is the way to go despite the PITA of topical application .....for prevention at least, which is where i am at...
    Hey, thanks for the advice. I have ordered 10% azelaic acid. Should I have gone for the 20%? Also I ordered Regenepure instead of Nizoral. I have the minoxidil, but I have heard mixed reviews on spiro. Have you noticed it makes/made a difference?
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    if you've got that sort of money you should invest in nootropics
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post

    Age: 33
    Height: 5'11"
    Weight: ~187lbs.
    Body Fat: 19-20%
    Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

    What I am taking:

    Bupropion (stressfull year)
    Propecia - 1mg
    Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
    Toco-8 - 1.26g

    Astaxanthin - 12mg
    Whey Protein Isolate
    Whey Protein Concentrate

    Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
    Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)

    Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
    Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2

    ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
    Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
    Pygeum - 100mg

    DAA Powder - ~3g
    Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day

    L-DOPA - 120mg
    Damiana - 450mg x 2
    AAKG - 1500mg
    OKG - 500mg

    Creatine - ~4g
    Beta-Alanine - 2.25g

    L-Carnosine - 500mg
    Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day
    Red should go
    Blue should stay
    Blue BOLD are staples and you only these for about a month of 2 and then add back in the rest of the blue ONE AT A TIME so you can gauge each their effects and compare them.

    Get your diet and training in order and after 1-3 months of proper diet and training, you add erase and OEP etc back in.

    Things you should consider:
    -A multi vit
    -Fish oils
    -DCP/Slin Sane V1/V2(these 2 are in the same class as the blue above and should be added in 1 at a time after a few months of good diet and training to see their effects).

    I removed the hairloss products just because hairloss is going to happen no point fighting it
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    why vegetarian?
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    Bupropion (stressfull year)
    Propecia - 1mg
    Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
    Toco-8 - 1.26g
    Astaxanthin - 12mg
    Whey Protein Isolate
    Whey Protein Concentrate
    Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
    Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
    Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
    Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
    ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
    Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
    Pygeum - 100mg
    DAA Powder - ~3g
    Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
    L-DOPA - 120mg
    Damiana - 450mg x 2
    AAKG - 1500mg
    OKG - 500mg
    Creatine - ~4g
    Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
    L-Carnosine - 500mg
    Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day
    I know you've researched it all and feel you're taking all the best supplements to cover all your needs, but one thing I've learned lately,
    is unless you use all-the-above supplements from a same and reputable company that's been FDA tested for purity(which hardly happens), etc. I wouldn't believe the labels... and in my mind, I think like this now "I'm better off taking just the basics... daily Whey protein and perhaps Creatine Mono., BCAA, 1000mg of EPA/DHA, etc.... because all the other goodies look great on paper.. but are more likely under-dosed, not as described(pure) as you would think, could actually do you more harm..containing traces of bacteria, etc.." I dropped most all my supplements
    I used to take and found a online calorie counter, e.g. crono-meter, and bought a weigh scale to weigh out my foods. Over-time I figured out a good healthy diet thru trial and error for weight-loss and muscle gains. I used to have endless bottles of supplements....over 200 bottles of junk that all seemed to address my needs...but later I figured it was just an addiction. MAYBE some worked ..but you never know WHATS working or helping your needs when your taking on so much stuff.. Only things I take besides an almost perfect diet now is a good Whey powder, BCAA, Glutamine, Creatine, EPA/DHA, ALA, ALCAR, Carnosine, CoQ10(ubiquinol), Acai, Trans-Reverstrol, Royal-Jelly(forget why I use this), Vit-E, Selenium, Red Panax Ginseng, Beta-Alanine, Citrulline Malate and once in a while Agmatine(sometimes it gives me a headache) .. but I just keep it simple now.. and focus more on diet, its the most crucial and you'll drop to 9-11% fat overtime and gain some good muscle.

    DAA is fun to cycle. MACA and (Z)MA are supposedly good for keeping estrogen lower..ymmv.. For some reason reason when I take 5g MACA
    it does seem to balance out hormones(in a good way) ... and lots the other stuff ur taking looks good too.. but keep in mind..if there all from
    different companies, chances are they could contain some nasty bacteria and do more harm then good.. so I try to just take "what I think is necessary--in my head" yeah I'm nuts ..hahha lol .. Oh Tribulus I stopped.. found it gives me gyno.... but Erase Pro is great for combating that..
    Crap, my reply post is all messed up ... lol..but one last thing.. "everything *seems* to work, until it doesn't" .. I think this is where
    cycling off/on certain supplements becomes a great idea..body loves to up/down regulate back to homeostasis so I think even then.. its best sometimes to Not even take supplements...but I do haha .. Good luck
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToNNNNyT
    Red should go
    Blue should stay
    Blue BOLD are staples and you only these for about a month of 2 and then add back in the rest of the blue ONE AT A TIME so you can gauge each their effects and compare them.

    Get your diet and training in order and after 1-3 months of proper diet and training, you add erase and OEP etc back in.

    Things you should consider:
    -A multi vit
    -Fish oils
    -DCP/Slin Sane V1/V2(these 2 are in the same class as the blue above and should be added in 1 at a time after a few months of good diet and training to see their effects).

    I removed the hairloss products just because hairloss is going to happen no point fighting it
    Hey thanks for the advice! The Super Nutrition energy packs are my multivitamin; they are amazing. But, just so I am clear... You recommend removing everything but the basics (bolded blue) now and then add in one thing at a time? But, won't the OEP, DAA, and Erase Pro help/enhance results now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh
    why vegetarian?
    Hey, I've been a non-judgemental-vegetarian since 1996. I feel better physically and my take is... "If I can live my life without harming an animal, then... Why not?" I still consume eggs and semi-solid dairy (After being vegan for a while, liquid dairy tastes horrible, but I was born in Wisconsin, so cheese is definitely a part of my life.)

    Anyway, to each their own. Everyone around me eats meat, more for them. Right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by aLinux

    I know you've researched it all and feel you're taking all the best supplements to cover all your needs, but one thing I've learned lately,
    is unless you use all-the-above supplements from a same and reputable company that's been FDA tested for purity(which hardly happens), etc. I wouldn't believe the labels... and in my mind, I think like this now "I'm better off taking just the basics... daily Whey protein and perhaps Creatine Mono., BCAA, 1000mg of EPA/DHA, etc.... because all the other goodies look great on paper.. but are more likely under-dosed, not as described(pure) as you would think, could actually do you more harm..containing traces of bacteria, etc.." I dropped most all my supplements
    I used to take and found a online calorie counter, e.g. crono-meter, and bought a weigh scale to weigh out my foods. Over-time I figured out a good healthy diet thru trial and error for weight-loss and muscle gains. I used to have endless bottles of supplements....over 200 bottles of junk that all seemed to address my needs...but later I figured it was just an addiction. MAYBE some worked ..but you never know WHATS working or helping your needs when your taking on so much stuff.. Only things I take besides an almost perfect diet now is a good Whey powder, BCAA, Glutamine, Creatine, EPA/DHA, ALA, ALCAR, Carnosine, CoQ10(ubiquinol), Acai, Trans-Reverstrol, Royal-Jelly(forget why I use this), Vit-E, Selenium, Red Panax Ginseng, Beta-Alanine, Citrulline Malate and once in a while Agmatine(sometimes it gives me a headache) .. but I just keep it simple now.. and focus more on diet, its the most crucial and you'll drop to 9-11% fat overtime and gain some good muscle.

    DAA is fun to cycle. MACA and (Z)MA are supposedly good for keeping estrogen lower..ymmv.. For some reason reason when I take 5g MACA
    it does seem to balance out hormones(in a good way) ... and lots the other stuff ur taking looks good too.. but keep in mind..if there all from
    different companies, chances are they could contain some nasty bacteria and do more harm then good.. so I try to just take "what I think is necessary--in my head" yeah I'm nuts ..hahha lol .. Oh Tribulus I stopped.. found it gives me gyno.... but Erase Pro is great for combating that..
    Crap, my reply post is all messed up ... lol..but one last thing.. "everything *seems* to work, until it doesn't" .. I think this is where
    cycling off/on certain supplements becomes a great idea..body loves to up/down regulate back to homeostasis so I think even then.. its best sometimes to Not even take supplements...but I do haha .. Good luck
    Hey, thanks for your thoughts on and experience with supplements. I am planning on cycling the majority of what I have begun taking.

    I am wondering which BCAAs you would recommend - brand name, amount?
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    No need for the ZMA also
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17

    Hey, thanks for your thoughts on and experience with supplements. I am planning on cycling the majority of what I have begun taking.

    I am wondering which BCAAs you would recommend - brand name, amount?
    Bulk modern is a good deal on NP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    Hey, I've been a non-judgemental-vegetarian since 1996. I feel better physically and my take is... "If I can live my life without harming an animal, then... Why not?" I still consume eggs and semi-solid dairy (After being vegan for a while, liquid dairy tastes horrible, but I was born in Wisconsin, so cheese is definitely a part of my life.)

    Anyway, to each their own. Everyone around me eats meat, more for them. Right?
    I hope you didnt take my question as an attack on you because it isnt. I am truly just curious and I ask that to every vegan or vegetarian i come across.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    maybe supplements are great for some people (i would assume so after reading reviews around here), but personally i have never gotten REAL results that i felt were 'worth the money' from any supplement at all. like many others have said, just stick to the basics. for me, the basics is just whey to supplement for those extra grams of protein i cant get through diet, as ive never responded in any noticeable or significant way to anything whether its creatine, agmatine, arginine, beta-alanine, etc (and by that i mean ive gone months with no supplements at all and others with nice stacks, and recorded about the same amount of weight/reps/weight gain, etc during the same time frame)... but hey, everyones different, so maybe you'll have luck.

    but just so this post is completely pointless, are you taking the astaxanthin 12mg because your pills are 12mg? based on what ive read, i really wouldnt go above 4mg, but make sure that its all natural astaxanthin. people have reported somewhat serious side effects when taking certain types, and although they say you can take up to 12mg, ive heard nutritionists recommend not going past 4, as it's still somewhat of a new supplement. ive got a bottle of 4mg caps, but after reading some of the reviews ive decided to hold of for a little while until a little more is known on it, haha. but anyway, just look into it sometime and decide for yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    Hey thanks for the advice! The Super Nutrition energy packs are my multivitamin; they are amazing. But, just so I am clear... You recommend removing everything but the basics (bolded blue) now and then add in one thing at a time? But, won't the OEP, DAA, and
    Erase Pro help/enhance results now?
    Yeah thats what I meant as for enhancing results you do have a point however both DAA and erase pro boost test so how would you know which affected your libido more or OEP is a good fat burner but some might say that dexaprine is better,maybe you want to try dex and compare but how can you compare if your talking a OEP+ test booster and cort/est blocker to just taking dex standalone.

    That was my point,if your taking ABCD supps ontop of your staples how are you going to know who is doing what.Its never a good idea to run aload of stuff though it is tempting too in order to get faster results but you gotta get the basics down first then build from there
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    I hope you didnt take my question as an attack on you because it isnt. I am truly just curious and I ask that to every vegan or vegetarian i come across.
    Not at all... I am totally cool with your question. I'm asking about supplements and diet is a huge part of reaching my goals. So, no worries, no offense assumed or taken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86
    maybe supplements are great for some people (i would assume so after reading reviews around here), but personally i have never gotten REAL results that i felt were 'worth the money' from any supplement at all. like many others have said, just stick to the basics. for me, the basics is just whey to supplement for those extra grams of protein i cant get through diet, as ive never responded in any noticeable or significant way to anything whether its creatine, agmatine, arginine, beta-alanine, etc (and by that i mean ive gone months with no supplements at all and others with nice stacks, and recorded about the same amount of weight/reps/weight gain, etc during the same time frame)... but hey, everyones different, so maybe you'll have luck.

    but just so this post is completely pointless, are you taking the astaxanthin 12mg because your pills are 12mg? based on what ive read, i really wouldnt go above 4mg, but make sure that its all natural astaxanthin. people have reported somewhat serious side effects when taking certain types, and although they say you can take up to 12mg, ive heard nutritionists recommend not going past 4, as it's still somewhat of a new supplement. ive got a bottle of 4mg caps, but after reading some of the reviews ive decided to hold of for a little while until a little more is known on it, haha. but anyway, just look into it sometime and decide for yourself.
    I have a bottle of bio-astin. Each poll is 4mg, but I did some reading and it seems like 10mg was the "magic number." But, I'll look into it further. Thanks for the heads up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToNNNNyT

    Yeah thats what I meant as for enhancing results you do have a point however both DAA and erase pro boost test so how would you know which affected your libido more or OEP is a good fat burner but some might say that dexaprine is better,maybe you want to try dex and compare but how can you compare if your talking a OEP+ test booster and cort/est blocker to just taking dex standalone.

    That was my point,if your taking ABCD supps ontop of your staples how are you going to know who is doing what.Its never a good idea to run aload of stuff though it is tempting too in order to get faster results but you gotta get the basics down first then build from there
    Heard... I am thinking about throttling back to the basics, after my current cycle is over. Then I will definitely be in a position to build from the basics.

    Also, I haven't really looked into Dexaprine. I will do a bit of research, thanks for the tips!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroke UR Ego
    if you've got that sort of money you should invest in nootropics
    Why nootropics? Could you elaborate a bit? Also, I am thinking the ZMA is only beneficial when I am training my hardest; when I was doing Triathlon I found it helpful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    Why nootropics? Could you elaborate a bit? Also, I am thinking the ZMA is only beneficial when I am training my hardest; when I was doing Triathlon I found it helpful.
    You are correct in your conjecture that ZMA would be useful during very demanding physical training like the triathlon. What is your training like currently? Keep me updated through PM on how your hair loss is going, i think i have finally stopped the shedding dead in its tracks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123

    You are correct in your conjecture that ZMA would be useful during very demanding physical training like the triathlon. What is your training like currently? Keep me updated through PM on how your hair loss is going, i think i have finally stopped the shedding dead in its tracks!
    Cool, will do. One quick question: I have heard mixed reviews on spiro. Have you noticed it makes/made a difference? Which brand do you use?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123

    You are correct in your conjecture that ZMA would be useful during very demanding physical training like the triathlon. What is your training like currently? Keep me updated through PM on how your hair loss is going, i think i have finally stopped the shedding dead in its tracks!
    As for training, I lift 3 days a week and do intervals 2 days a week.
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    Where to begin in this thread...lol
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Where to begin in this thread...lol
    Any thoughts you might have would be appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion17 View Post
    Any thoughts you might have would be appreciated.
    Wanna give me a recap and any lingering questions?
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Wanna give me a recap and any lingering questions?
    Hey, thanks for the offer. Do you have any thoughts on Spiro for hair loss? I have heard mixed reviews. Also, do you happen to have a preference for a brand of BCAAs? Jim2542 recommended Bulk Modern.
  

  
 

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