Supplement Advice: Too much or not enough?

[Orion17]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

[Jim2542]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

Holy Jesus! You made of money bro??

The best advice as far as supplementing at this stage (assuming diet is in check) is to keep it simple. Protein, creatine, maybe preworkouts. You can use the DAA just be sure to cycle it and the OEP is a good product. But most of that is unnecessary dollars spent!

[ericool007]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

not exactly my prefered choice in supplements but everyones different so i say if you can afford it then go for it, but i see a lot of things in there that look like test/libido enhancers which you would definitely want to cycle off of. and then aakg, okg, and carnosine just seem kind of useless, try maybe citrulline or agmatine instead.

[murk01]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

Dang boy!
Finish what u got and then go to basics. Protein, oat meal, multi, fish oil.
I like the daa, erase, toco8
But those are not staples.
Good luck. Inner city NY?

[Orion17]

Holy Jesus! You made of money bro??

The best advice as far as supplementing at this stage (assuming diet is in check) is to keep it simple. Protein, creatine, maybe preworkouts. You can use the DAA just be sure to cycle it and the OEP is a good product. But most of that is unnecessary dollars spent!

Made of money? Ha! No, I am a public school teacher, but I am frugal so that I can spend money when/where I need to. But, I thought I might be overdoing it...

I hear you on cycling the DAA, my understanding is that I should only go up to 8 weeks? I am loving the OEP... It's insanely good.

Which preworkouts would you recommend?

[Orion17]

not exactly my prefered choice in supplements but everyones different so i say if you can afford it then go for it, but i see a lot of things in there that look like test/libido enhancers which you would definitely want to cycle off of. and then aakg, okg, and carnosine just seem kind of useless, try maybe citrulline or agmatine instead.

Hey, Thanks for the heads up on Agmatine... Once I am finished with all my AAKG & Carnosine, I will definitely try it out. As for the "preferred choice of supplements" - is there something that you might recommend in lieu of that which I am taking?

[Orion17]

Dang boy!
Finish what u got and then go to basics. Protein, oat meal, multi, fish oil.
I like the daa, erase, toco8
But those are not staples.
Good luck. Inner city NY?

Hey, Thanks for the advice. I thought I should consult the experts. Your plan is much cheaper. However, until this is all gone... As far as you can see, there isn't anything that might interfere with anything else?

No I am not in NY, although I loved living there, I am teaching on the other coast, in Oakland.

[ericool007]

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day
FISH OIL

I would get rid of all the red things, cycle the underlined stuff, double or triple up the dosage of RK if its intended for weight loss, use 95% extract forskolin(c-bolic). I would probably use ephedrine/caffine istead of OEP. and if i was a little husky I would also add something Like abliderate advanced, TTA, and some form of carnitine preferably PLC or LCLT.

Thats what i mean by preferred choice take it with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions lol

[bigbb123]

The number one thing I would get rid of above all else is that godamn poison they call propecia. It is by far the worst drug I have ever taken, even if some of the other things you are taking possibly counteract the sides. I advise any one I hear taking it to get off unless absolutely needed as in your doctor will shoot you if you come off. It can cause gyno, impotence, hinder your gains( dht is needed for both fat loss and muscle building, and just generally wreak havoc on your hormone profile. I took it for a month and hated it. Aside from that nothing your taking is dangerous, even the bupropion is safe in comparison to the propecia. Just my 2 cents

[Orion17]

I would get rid of all the red things, cycle the underlined stuff, double or triple up the dosage of RK if its intended for weight loss, use 95% extract forskolin(c-bolic). I would probably use ephedrine/caffine istead of OEP. and if i was a little husky I would also add something Like abliderate advanced, TTA, and some for of carnitine preferably PLC or LCLT.

Thats what i mean by preferred choice take it with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions lol

Hey, Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out - this was incredibly clear!

I have concerns about ephedra... I realize that DMAA has issues too, but I just stocked up on OEP. And, I am looking into your other recommendations too. As for Fish Oil, I am looking for a vegetarian equivalent. Have you heard of anything that might be a good vegetarian substitute? I am looking at the "Total EFA by Health from the Sun."

Thanks again!

[Orion17]

The number one thing I would get rid of above all else is that godamn poison they call propecia. It is by far the worst drug I have ever taken, even if some of the other things you are taking possibly counteract the sides. I advise any one I hear taking it to get off unless absolutely needed as in your doctor will shoot you if you come off. It can cause gyno, impotence, hinder your gains( dht is needed for both fat loss and muscle building, and just generally wreak havoc on your hormone profile. I took it for a month and hated it. Aside from that nothing your taking is dangerous, even the bupropion is safe in comparison to the propecia. Just my 2 cents

I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.

[ericool007]

I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.

ah that would make sense as to why you had so many libido increasing sups if you come off those and stay on propecia: of which i forgot about the impotency it causes, you might just need to get prescribed viagra or somtin lol.

i feel you though I wouldnt want to lose my hair either so i could see why one would take propecia even if it turns you into a woman lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/mandi-mckee-william-propecia-baldness-drug-woman_n_1695706.html

[bigbb123]

I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.

Hair thing is totally understandable man, I just loathe that drug. Don't despair however, there are methods to stem hair loss, albeit a bit more complicated. My regimen consists of toco-8 which is actually effective believe it or not, topical spiro shampoo and nizoral shampoo, as well as rogaine. Is it an annoying ritual, yes very much so, but it has been effective in stemming pretty rapid shedding at some points. Thing is with or without propecia or rogaine, those prone to it will eventually lose their hair, no question, these drugs simply delay what is sadly inevitable. My suggestion, coming from a guy fighting the same battle is to drop the propecia, continue the test boosting supps, get blood work to determine the effects of the propecia, try my regimen and look at other alternatives of course and save up for a transplant. Transplant is actually the best bet pit of all these things although the most expensive

[murk01]

Do u think toco8 helps at all

[WARBIRDWS6]

Hair thing is totally understandable man, I just loathe that drug. Don't despair however, there are methods to stem hair loss, albeit a bit more complicated. My regimen consists of toco-8 which is actually effective believe it or not, topical spiro shampoo and nizoral shampoo, as well as rogaine. Is it an annoying ritual, yes very much so, but it has been effective in stemming pretty rapid shedding at some points. Thing is with or without propecia or rogaine, those prone to it will eventually lose their hair, no question, these drugs simply delay what is sadly inevitable. My suggestion, coming from a guy fighting the same battle is to drop the propecia, continue the test boosting supps, get blood work to determine the effects of the propecia, try my regimen and look at other alternatives of course and save up for a transplant. Transplant is actually the best bet pit of all these things although the most expensive

100% correct....propecia is poison and spiro /azelaic acid/rogaine/nizoral is the way to go despite the PITA of topical application .....for prevention at least, which is where i am at...

[Orion17]

Do u think toco8 helps at all

Hey, I have heard good things about TOCO-8; but the study that showed a decrease in shedding was based on a different form of Tocomin. I just started with the TOCO-8; I'll keep you posted on any changes - good or bad.

[Orion17]

100% correct....propecia is poison and spiro /azelaic acid/rogaine/nizoral is the way to go despite the PITA of topical application .....for prevention at least, which is where i am at...

Hey, thanks for the advice. I have ordered 10% azelaic acid. Should I have gone for the 20%? Also I ordered Regenepure instead of Nizoral. I have the minoxidil, but I have heard mixed reviews on spiro. Have you noticed it makes/made a difference?

[Stroke UR Ego]

if you've got that sort of money you should invest in nootropics

[ToNNNNyT]

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Red should go
Blue should stay
Blue BOLD are staples and you only these for about a month of 2 and then add back in the rest of the blue ONE AT A TIME so you can gauge each their effects and compare them.

Get your diet and training in order and after 1-3 months of proper diet and training, you add erase and OEP etc back in.

Things you should consider:
-A multi vit
-Fish oils
-DCP/Slin Sane V1/V2(these 2 are in the same class as the blue above and should be added in 1 at a time after a few months of good diet and training to see their effects).

I removed the hairloss products just because hairloss is going to happen no point fighting it

[JudoJosh]

why vegetarian?