Negative side effects of workout supps

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    I don't know if OP had this in mind, but he's not entirely wrong. Occasionally a person can develop an allergy to a food if consumed on a regular basis and/or in excess and/or for an extended amount of time. It has to do with certain antigens contained in the said food that can eventually promote an over production of Immunoglobulin (a kind of receptor) for the said antigen. Even though it's a system designed to target pathogens, our body does this all the time for things that are totally lacking any reasonable pathogenic potential. The 'allergic reaction' can be on a low enough level that the affected individual would never be aware of it unless they had a food allergy test done, but it does have negative implications on overall health -> inflammation etc.

    I've played with this myself. My first allergy food test I had a 'Moderately severe' reaction to pinto beans, pineapple, and eggs (which had all been staples in my diet for sometime) after several months of cutting those out, I had the test again and the allergies had totally subsided, but new ones had popped up lol. It's the kind of thing that if you're going to really worry about, you gotta be totally on top of it, but just going through basic rotations like OP mentioned doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.
    Casein has a high rate of adult on-set allergy, but this doesn't sound like an allergen. More like overcomplicating things and losing sight on the big picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3utcher View Post
    WTF is that ?
    Fat cell receptors (e.g. alpha 2).
    M.Ed. Ex Phys



  2. Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    Sunwarrior warrior blend plant protein (Main protein powder)
    Hemavol (I'm a pump fiend)
    PurpleWraath (BCAA/EAA)
    Karbolyn (first pre Supp I ever tried and love it)
    APE (test booster stopped because of acne)
    Blox (worked great, stopped because too expensive)
    Fish oil (Omega 3s)
    Flax oil (secondary Omega 3s)
    Multi (have always taken one)
    Probiotics (acne/skin/digestion)
    B12 (energy)
    Acetyl L Carnitine (weight issues/endomorph)
    Glutamine (anti catabolic)
    Milk thistle (occasionally high ALT levels)
    Hear All (delicate ears from meds)
    D3 (daily, low vitamin d)
    Ephedrine HCL (alternative to caffeine, cant do.caffeine)
    Somotropin hGH (prescription)
    Arixtra (prescription blood thinner)
    Be careful with the ephedrine it really can speed you up. Check out the side effects with that stuff. I think your pre-workout should be good enough for you. Not sure you need the extra. Do you cycle on and off with it?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mightyconan View Post
    Stop everything? Why should he stop everything? Alot of the stuff he's taking seems extremely healthy. Fish oils, flax seed oil, are probably some of the healthiest things you can possibly take. The only thing i see that might be a concern is taking that with the prescription blood thinner. Cause fish oils do thin the blood a bit. But to stop taking a good multivitamin or vit. D is downright stupid. Those are some very healthy supps. to be taking. Drs. in general, are known to be against any and all supplements. They have always been this way. I'm not saying all drs. but a vast majority of them are. I don't see any supplements that you're taking that could possibly cause any problems. Aside from the ephedrine, which can raise blood pressure. Aside from that, thats all I see.





    Take everything your dr. tells you about supplements with a grain of salt. They know extremely little about that topic.
    Doctors.... most are overweight , don't exercise and have no idea what the body that is active and working out needs .. So i am not even asking or say anything about what i take and need. I go to a Alternative Medicine doctor and have Saliva and blood spot work to see how things look with my hormones and the rest!!

  4. Quote Originally Posted by kokobeware2 View Post
    My md told me SuperDrol is just high stimulant an a pump enhancer. He then told me my gyno will just go away and wouldn't give me anything for it. Now I have a lump under my right nipple. Good job MD.
    Wow... fool needs to have his license revoked for trying to treat outside his scope... And you DEFINITELY should look into a new doc. But to be fair, most GP's will have no clue as to how a DS affects the body, even the endo I talked to about it was real vague on his assertions.
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Casein has a high rate of adult on-set allergy, but this doesn't sound like an allergen. More like overcomplicating things and losing sight on the big picture.
    I'm a little confused by this statement. I'm guessing that you're not saying casein doesn't sound like an allergen, because you just stated that it frequently is.

    "An allergen is any substance that can cause an allergy. In technical terms, an allergen is an antigen capable of stimulating a type-I hypersensitivity..."
    -wikipedia 'allergen' page

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Fat cell receptors (e.g. alpha 2).

    I'm guessing you mean alpha-2-adrenergic receptors? These are present throughout many tissues, not just adipocytes (throughout the central nervous system, peripheral nervous system, cardiovascular system etc.).

    Not trying to flame man, i'm just hear to improve my own knowledge base and spread what little I already know, but if you're going to drop concrete assertions like that it's good to double check that you're correct or at least on the right track, otherwise you might be leading someone down the wrong path. Wikipedia and pubmed are our friends .
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by wtmdcg91

    I go to a Alternative Medicine doctor and have Saliva and blood spot work to see how things look with my hormones and the rest!!
    Would I just google alternative medicine to find a doc like that? I know it sounds like a dumb question but I've called several doctors in my area and they all seem confused about what I'm testing for and then tell me they don't do those kind of tests.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    I'm a little confused by this statement. I'm guessing that you're not saying casein doesn't sound like an allergen, because you just stated that it frequently is.

    "An allergen is any substance that can cause an allergy. In technical terms, an allergen is an antigen capable of stimulating a type-I hypersensitivity..."
    -wikipedia 'allergen' page
    I mean this specific case. Casein is an allergen and I did not mean to imply that it is not.

    I'm guessing you mean alpha-2-adrenergic receptors? These are present throughout many tissues, not just adipocytes (throughout the central nervous system, peripheral nervous system, cardiovascular system etc.).

    Not trying to flame man, i'm just hear to improve my own knowledge base and spread what little I already know, but if you're going to drop concrete assertions like that it's good to double check that you're correct or at least on the right track, otherwise you might be leading someone down the wrong path. Wikipedia and pubmed are our friends .
    Bad example, but you get the scenario. Those are the kinds of receptors that have down regulation.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  8. Quote Originally Posted by bomcgraw View Post
    Would I just google alternative medicine to find a doc like that? I know it sounds like a dumb question but I've called several doctors in my area and they all seem confused about what I'm testing for and then tell me they don't do those kind of tests.
    Is hard to find one. The best place is go to ZRT labs.com and go under finding a provider you put your state and zip code to see if there are any or where is the closest one for you . ZRT Laboratory are the biggest lab in USA for that kinda of testing . They should be able to give you some idea where to locate one near you!! Hope this helps....

  9. Quote Originally Posted by wtmdcg91

    Is hard to find one. The best place is go to ZRT labs.com and go under finding a provider you put your state and zip code to see if there are any or where is the closest one for you . ZRT Laboratory are the biggest lab in USA for that kinda of testing . They should be able to give you some idea where to locate one near you!! Hope this helps....
    Thanks a ton!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by bomcgraw View Post
    Would I just google alternative medicine to find a doc like that? I know it sounds like a dumb question but I've called several doctors in my area and they all seem confused about what I'm testing for and then tell me they don't do those kind of tests.
    Another way to go about it is to look up Naturopathic Doctor's (ND's) and Doctor's of Osteopathy (DO's) in your area on google or whatever doctor directory pops up first on google.

    Either way I'd highly suggest it. My personal preference is DO's, ND's can be kinda scammy with trying to push certain supplement brands and what not on you. But, I'm highly biased, as I'm getting ready to apply for DO school soon.
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by mightyconan View Post
    Stop everything? Why should he stop everything? Alot of the stuff he's taking seems extremely healthy. Fish oils, flax seed oil, are probably some of the healthiest things you can possibly take. The only thing i see that might be a concern is taking that with the prescription blood thinner. Cause fish oils do thin the blood a bit. But to stop taking a good multivitamin or vit. D is downright stupid. Those are some very healthy supps. to be taking. Drs. in general, are known to be against any and all supplements. They have always been this way. I'm not saying all drs. but a vast majority of them are. I don't see any supplements that you're taking that could possibly cause any problems. Aside from the ephedrine, which can raise blood pressure. Aside from that, thats all I see.

    Take everything your dr. tells you about supplements with a grain of salt. They know extremely little about that topic.
    Bro are you refering to my post? If so, where did I say "stop everything"? My bad, I was under the impression that a clean, whole food diet was a good supplement! lol.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Fat cell receptors (e.g. alpha 2).
    Those are adrenoreceptors.
    And not every receptor of an adipocyte have some downregulation.

  13. There is some really good advice here. I came to realization that almost everything I thought I knew was wrong... and I was forced to revisit and reprocess WHY I chose to use certain supplements at certain times. I asked myself:

    1. What did I wish to accomplish by adding this supplement?
    2. What was stopping me or slowing me from achieving this without the supplement?
    3. What was the science on the supplement?
    4. What was the feedback on the supplement?
    5. Was the proportion of cost: risk: benefit REALLY worth it in the end?

    Most of the time, looking back at my choices, my answers were almost all the same.

    1. What did I wish to accomplish by adding this supplement?
    a) I wanted to gain some strength, more size, and definitely eliminate more fat
    2. What was stopping me or slowing me from achieving this without the supplement?
    a) Nothing was stopping me, except the fear of having to eat better, cook more, and spend more time and effort
    3. What was the science on the supplement?
    a) It looked like a well thought out write-up and it had some facts that were based on science, but nothing conclusive
    4. What was the feedback on the supplement?
    a) Good enough for me to burn money on
    5. Was the proportion of cost: risk: benefit REALLY worth it in the end?
    a) Over the course of a decade I have spent more money on supplements than I have on rent and utilities for places I have lived. I spent more money every year than on a year's worth of car insurance, car maintenence, gasoline (yearly), and performance upgrades per year. I can say that the stimulants and prohormone and designer steroids on the market effed me up pretty badly, for certain. I can say that the largest benefit (and maybe the only) is that I learned that most supplements will not make much of a positive change in your quality of life or quality of lifting. The biggest benefit was honestly learning that there is not many other benefits except for knowing that there aren't much benefits, if that makes sense. After all was said and done, there are only a few supplements that really 'do it' for me.

    Hopefully that helped a little. Don't dwell in your mistakes. Embrace failure. Without knowing failure, there would be no way to know success. Coincidentia oppositorum - Latin for coincidence of the opposites - hot needs cold to exist, etc. Now I'm going on a tangent.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mightyconan View Post
    Stop everything? Why should he stop everything? Alot of the stuff he's taking seems extremely healthy. Fish oils, flax seed oil, are probably some of the healthiest things you can possibly take. The only thing i see that might be a concern is taking that with the prescription blood thinner. Cause fish oils do thin the blood a bit. But to stop taking a good multivitamin or vit. D is downright stupid. Those are some very healthy supps. to be taking. Drs. in general, are known to be against any and all supplements. They have always been this way. I'm not saying all drs. but a vast majority of them are. I don't see any supplements that you're taking that could possibly cause any problems. Aside from the ephedrine, which can raise blood pressure. Aside from that, thats all I see.

    Take everything your dr. tells you about supplements with a grain of salt. They know extremely little about that topic.
    Yes, most doctors in the USA don't know much at all about medicine, let alone supplements. As a matter of fact, most medical professionals I have encountered do NOT know much about medicine. I had an argument with a nurse practioner about benzodiazepine withdrawal. The NP said that Librium is protocol for benzodiazepine withdrawal, so I asked why would you use a benzodiazepine for benzodiazepine withdrawal (aside from switching to one with a longer half-life) and the NP said that Librium isn't a benzo. I find it interesting that Librium is the first benzodiazepine ever to be created.

    On the other topic, I do think that dropping everything is a good idea for at least a little while. I was always afraid to do it, but each time I did it was the best thing ever. Also, I got on the boat a little late for the multivitamin sham and I feel much better using seperate vitamins (a/c/e/d) and chelated minerals than I ever did using any multivitamin.

    Plus, as far as dropping supplements that would otherwise be considered as vital... We can achieve a surplus of vital nutrients from whole foods. For the month of taking a break from supplements, if one were to go to a good farmers market and buy a bit more at the butcher, I am sure that some extra vegetables (nice colorful array) and steak will pack on more density and provide more clean energy than whatever you can give in a pill, powder, or liquid form.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    I am a 20 year old amateur bodybuilder who has been at the game roughly 8 months. I take an array of supplements, both for bodybuilding, and some for everyday health. My doctors have been flipping out lately every time I mention any of them. Between my GP, my nephrologist and my endocrinologist I never hear the end of it. Will using workout supps negatively effect me in the long term?? Here is a list of supps and prescription meds I am using or have used recently. Docs mostly afraid of kidney stress/damage

    Sunwarrior warrior blend plant protein (Post)
    Hemavol (Pre)
    PurpleWraath (Intra)
    Karbolyn (Pre and Post)
    APE (used recently)
    Blox (Used recently)
    Fish oil (daily)
    Flax oil (daily)
    Multi (daily)
    Probiotics (daily)
    B12 (occasionally)
    Acetyl L Carnitine (twice daily)
    Glutamine (Post)
    Milk thistle (twice daily)
    Hear All (twice daily)
    D3 (daily, low vitamin d)
    Ephedrine HCL (multiple times per week)
    Somotropin hGH (prescription) daily
    Arixtra (prescription blood thinner) daily
    Im going to give u the best advice u will probably use for doctor-patient relations that will work best for you & all of us who use these kinda supplements, & that is, NEVER SAY UR USING SUPPLEMENTS & DENY IT IF THEY ASK!!! Never tell a doc ur using any for of supplements such as creatine, ephedrine, test boosters, herbals, etc, because they will all say that they have negative effects, can do u harm, & they will be quick to blame whatevers wrong with u on the supps!!! I learned this a long time ago & have done this for years as ive been in the game for over a decade & am 35yrs old now.

    On the other hand, (playing devils advocate), if ur having issues like high blood pressure, bad cholesterol, high liver enzymes, etc, & ur using ephedrine or test regularly, then u need to be smart enough to know the side effects of these supps & back the dosage down or take a break from it.

    Oh & if u want a doc to confide in, then u need to find a sports/athletic doc like the ones used exclusively in pro sports. Only problem is that ur insurance may not cover it & they are expensive as hell!! At the age of 20 & with the fact that ur workin out to get bigger/stronger, i wouldn't go this route & would just stick to keepin quiet, make it known that u excersise alot, & that u lead a healthy lifestyle!! If anything just tell em u only take a multi vit, omegas, & d-3. Remember this as well, most doctors dont know much about sports supplements, so there confusion clouts there judgement.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by SeniorXJ View Post
    Im going to give u the best advice u will probably use for doctor-patient relations that will work best for you & all of us who use these kinda supplements, & that is, NEVER SAY UR USING SUPPLEMENTS & DENY IT IF THEY ASK!!! Never tell a doc ur using any for of supplements such as creatine, ephedrine, test boosters, herbals, etc, because they will all say that they have negative effects, can do u harm, & they will be quick to blame whatevers wrong with u on the supps!!! I learned this a long time ago & have done this for years as ive been in the game for over a decade & am 35yrs old now.

    On the other hand, (playing devils advocate), if ur having issues like high blood pressure, bad cholesterol, high liver enzymes, etc, & ur using ephedrine or test regularly, then u need to be smart enough to know the side effects of these supps & back the dosage down or take a break from it.

    Oh & if u want a doc to confide in, then u need to find a sports/athletic doc like the ones used exclusively in pro sports. Only problem is that ur insurance may not cover it & they are expensive as hell!! At the age of 20 & with the fact that ur workin out to get bigger/stronger, i wouldn't go this route & would just stick to keepin quiet, make it known that u excersise alot, & that u lead a healthy lifestyle!! If anything just tell em u only take a multi vit, omegas, & d-3. Remember this as well, most doctors dont know much about sports supplements, so there confusion clouts there judgement.
    IMO they know that better than 98% of the internet guys on the forum.
    If you want to ask them, ask them.
  17. purebred
    purebred's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    Well I go by the philosophy where the body eventually adapts to what it consumes so you need to rotate your foods and supps so as not to develop a possible temporary sensitivity to something.
    Food rotating? Please back this up with science. I would love to know more.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    Well I go by the philosophy where the body eventually adapts to what it consumes so you need to rotate your foods and supps so as not to develop a possible temporary sensitivity to something.
    that is not the case with nutrients its not like when you smoke to much weed and your builds up you don't build a tolerance to protien infact you should drop the protien shakes and karbolyn all together and try to meet your macros with whole foods the only people that really benefit from the super high gi processed carbs like karbolyn/ vitargo or waxi maize are those that use insulin. I would also drop the blox for bcaas cause blox is useless overpriced garbage as is almost everything bpi makes. save your money and buy some steak and ****.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    Food rotating? Please back this up with science. I would love to know more.
    Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    I don't know if OP had this in mind, but he's not entirely wrong. Occasionally a person can develop an allergy to a food if consumed on a regular basis and/or in excess and/or for an extended amount of time. It has to do with certain antigens contained in the said food that can eventually promote an over production of Immunoglobulin (a kind of receptor) for the said antigen. Even though it's a system designed to target pathogens, our body does this all the time for things that are totally lacking any reasonable pathogenic potential. The 'allergic reaction' can be on a low enough level that the affected individual would never be aware of it unless they had a food allergy test done, but it does have negative implications on overall health -> inflammation etc.

    I've played with this myself. My first allergy food test I had a 'Moderately severe' reaction to pinto beans, pineapple, and eggs (which had all been staples in my diet for sometime) after several months of cutting those out, I had the test again and the allergies had totally subsided, but new ones had popped up lol. It's the kind of thing that if you're going to really worry about, you gotta be totally on top of it, but just going through basic rotations like OP mentioned doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.
    I addressed this.

    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Boatcop1 View Post
    QFT!!!

    Bro I am going to be 35 next month. I have been training for 18 years and I still dont have it all figured out. I used to trust and depend on my supps! You name it and I've done it and more than likely abused too! For the past 8 months I have been "almost" supplement free. The only thing i take is Cellucor C4 pre workout, Bulk BCAA's and cheap ass Walmart whey protien and I am arguably in the best shape ever! I even stopped taking multi's just see if there was a difference and I am yet to experience any drawback. What's my secret? Clean food! I eat a well balanced diet and a good pro/car/fat ratio of about 200/140/50 grams respectively. My abbs have abbs now and I'm still slinging some heavy weight! You'll hear it alot that supps are useless and just to eat. I dont agree. There is a place for supplementation but at your age get your diet right and train with intensity. Good luck
    Very solid post bro. Everything comes down to eating right and healthy and moderation IMO. If you have the discipline to do that you should be fine.

  21. The food/supp rotating is actually very important for proper health/ inflammation response, etc, someone already did confirm this as being true on page 2 and w hat he said was actually perfectly said. Also to respond to casein being a common allergan, in actuality nearly 50% of Americans have some sort of an allergy to casein, some not really noticable and some much more severe. In fact, most people with milk allergies are not allergic to whey, only to casein. Finally, NDs actually don't try to push a ton of supplements on you, mine is in fact trying to limit my supplements, however, unlike my doctors, he has nothing against supps

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    The food/supp rotating is actually very important for proper health/ inflammation response, etc, someone already did confirm this as being true on page 2 and w hat he said was actually perfectly said. Also to respond to casein being a common allergan, in actuality nearly 50% of Americans have some sort of an allergy to casein, some not really noticable and some much more severe. In fact, most people with milk allergies are not allergic to whey, only to casein. Finally, NDs actually don't try to push a ton of supplements on you, mine is in fact trying to limit my supplements, however, unlike my doctors, he has nothing against supps
    You don't really understand the inflammatory and PRAL response. It's not about rotating foods after extended periods of time; it's about balancing alkalinic and acidic foods. Also, most of the highly acidic, hence inflammatory, foods are grains, not animal proteins (e.g. brown rice, oats, etc.).
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  23. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You don't really understand the inflammatory and PRAL response. It's not about rotating foods after extended periods of time; it's about balancing alkalinic and acidic foods. Also, most of the highly acidic, hence inflammatory, foods are grains, not animal proteins (e.g. brown rice, oats, etc.).
    lol wut

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You don't really understand the inflammatory and PRAL response...it's about balancing alkalinic and acidic foods. Also, most of the highly acidic, hence inflammatory, foods are grains, not animal proteins (e.g. brown rice, oats, etc.).
    Yes, grains do tend to be inflammatory, but to say that animal proteins are not inflammatory is ridiculous, and completely wrong. In fact, meat itself tends to average much higher on the PRAL scale than grains.

    Exhibit A
    http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/bases.htm

    By this account, the oats and b​rown rice you mentioned earlier come in at a whopping 12.5 and 10.7, the highest of the grains category and on average about twice as high as the other listed foods of that category.

    To be fair, let's look at the two highest rated foods in the animal products. We have parmesan cheese at 34.2 and processed cheese at 28.7, about 3x that of the highest rated grains.

    B
    http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/foodcharts.htm
    C
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/30...t-in-the-body/
    D
    http://www.energiseforlife.com/acid-...food-chart.pdf

    They all have generally the same trend, that meats and dairy tend to be more acidic than grains.

    Regardless of what dogmas you live by, you should really start fact checking them before you try to correct or give people advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    It's not about rotating foods after extended periods of time;
    I addressed the legitimacy of periodically rotating staples of your diet on page two, in response to an earlier post of yours. I am not prepared to claim that it is the factor or even a primary factor, but it is absolutely a factor in chronic inflammation and one's overall health. If you contain some knowledge I or anyone else appears to be lacking on the subject, then please, lay it out on the table. But PLEASE, take the five minutes to do some fact checking before you post any more erroneous claims.
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.

  25. Actually because of my kidney disease and I have been around the inflammatory subject for years. I know all about the acid/alkaline thing, however. I also know that when they say everything in moderation, its true. If you eat too much of a single food for an extended period of time, your body can develop a temporary sensitivity/slight nearly unnoticed allergy. It can affect overall health and actually make it so that your body is less efficient at metabolising a particular group of foods. Also the season can also affect what you eat. During the spring time you should avoid any foods that may have or produce yeasts and molds and fermentation including melons, vinegar, apples, nuts, breads with yeast, etc. And yes, grains and meats can be inflammatory but moreso red meats and wheat-type grains including wheat, tritical, kasha, and spelt. Poultry and other whole grains are more neutral or slightly inflammatory. The only meat that is actually non-inflammatory is in fact bison/buffalo meat. But yes to respond to above, obviously red meat is going to be more inflammatory than any grains.
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