Second time trying Anabeta + a few extras. All advice and input is appreciated!
- 05-30-2012, 06:07 AM
Second time trying Anabeta + a few extras. All advice and input is appreciated!
I tried a few months ago and it was the only strength-building supplement that has ever worked for me. I found that it made me able to eat a lot more without gaining fat, gave me an increase in strength, and made me look leaner and stronger despite doing way too much late-night snacking. The only disappointment was that I aggravated an old hernia repair after three weeks and had to finish my run without any lifting while I waited to see if I had reherniated or not (turned out I didn't...yay). Now I am starting my second bottle, and I am planning to take my diet much more seriously. I am currently living in Taiwan and recently got engaged. I will be taking my wedding pictures in about four weeks (I don't know if this tradition is popular anywhere else in the world, as I have never been married before...but I think it's not a common thing in the states). I thought that was a good enough reason to get serious about this and really see what it could do. Today is my first day back on it and I am excited. I am always using BCAAs when I work out, but I have taken a couple of weeks off everything else. Now I am starting the following:
-CEE- 3~4 grams/day (mixed with BCAAs on workout days)
-iForce V2- about 0.25 scoops pre-workout (I stopped drinking coffee last year and am now VERY sensitive to stims so this dose gets my amped up)
- - 3-5 grams mixed with the MV2 preworkout (not sure if this does anything for me, but I had it lying around from years ago so why not?)
- - 0.5-1 gram before any carb meals that I eat at home (if I remember to take it, I still have some that I can take outside with me and will do that)
-BCAA (a mix of , bulk , and bulk (tastes better than straight ))- about 20 grams mixed into about a gallon of water intra-workout (plus the CEE)
-Nutraplanet bulk cissus- 2-3 grams each morning and then 1 grams of supercissus when that runs out
-Costco - 10 pills upon waking each day
-Amazing Grass Green Superfood- 1 packet upon waking
-Costco Multivitamin- Not sure if it does anything, but it is like 2 cents a pill
-Costco B-Complex- Same thoughts as the multi...
I am also planning on adding some ATD to this, but I want to make sure that you guys agree that it could be of some use to me. I have two grams that I bought before it was banned (I think it was banned, right?), so I read around here and decided to take one gram and mix it with 40 ml of tequila (I know, I know, but it was all I had lying around). In retrospect, I should have used half olive oil I guess, but at 1ml/day I guess it won't hurt anything except my taste buds. When shaken up, this suspends evenly (I read that androstenetrione dissolves in alcohol and mistook it for ATD, so I used all alcohol...oh well). I am thinking that taking 25 mg per day could provide benefits to me (trying to get as cut as possible while not losing much muscle), and wouldn't put me in much danger of sore joints or anything else.
What do you guys think about adding the ATD? My specific questions are:
1. Is it too old to be effective (about 5 years BUT it has been in cool, dehumidified rooms in the dark)?
2. Would it, in your opinions, do anything for me at that dosage (25 mg/day)?
3. Am I too young to be using it (I tried a test-booster that I still have bottles of before realizing that they are generally for people over 30, so it didn't do anything for me)?
4. Are there any possible dangers/side effects from that dosage that any of you have experienced (I searched and didn't find too many problems, but give me your impressions from your experiences)?
5. I read that the best time to take it is at night, before bed. Do you all agree with this?
I will post later on tonight or tomorrow (Taiwan time...12-hour difference from US EST) with the details of my diet and workout routines, so I can get this log started right! I didn't want to add it to this post, since it is already waaaaaaaaaaaaay too wordy (sorry about that).
Last edited by tyrub42; 06-05-2012 at 06:40 AM. Reason: Forgot to list some things
- 05-30-2012, 08:17 AM
- 05-30-2012, 11:10 AM
Nice, dude...hope it is working well for you. Today is day 1 and I already notice a difference in how I feel; a nice sense of well-being and my workout tonight was intense!
On a side note, I just took my first dose of the ATD. If anyone wants to make what has to be literally the worst tasting thing you have ever tried, mix ATD with tequila. I was expecting the worst, but it was so much worse than what I thought the worst could be, haha.
Will update with workout and diet details tomorrow, but I must get to sleep now.
05-30-2012, 11:18 AM
05-30-2012, 11:40 AM
Thanks so much for the input! I was hoping that you guys would send me a bottle of the new AB Elite to log (sent an email about it awhile ago). Oh well, but can't blame a guy for trying, right?
I don't get much from mono, personally. I usually use the NP di-creatine malate, but I switched to the CEE because it just seems to hit me better than anything else and I found an old tub that I forgot I had (although I have never gotten a HUGE difference from creatine). Still though, that CEE really ruins the taste of the BCAAs whereas the DCM just gives it a nice sour kick. Maybe I will have to switch to taking the CEE pre or post. Do you think there would be a big difference if I did that? I could also take it after weights but before bjj, so it would be intra, but just not a slow feed with the BCAAs. Any thoughts on that?
OK, now it's bed time for real! Goodnight guys and thanks for any posts you leave. I will read and respond in the morning!
05-30-2012, 11:43 AM
New elite looks great but nothing wrong with the old version bro! Thanks for the tip on the modern bcaa, I'm going to add that in
05-30-2012, 11:58 AM
If your budget allows, you might want try bumping the AnaBeta up to 6 caps per day. This way you can get a little extra "umph" without having to add any additional supplements. When I ran 4 caps I liked it but when I bumped it up to 6 caps daily, it was a huge difference. The only downside was the increased hunger and thirst.
05-31-2012, 07:45 AM
OK here are the details of my diet and exercise plans. For some background, I was a fat kid my whole life. When I was 16, I was 5'8" and weighed 260 pounds. I had an epiphany one day in class and realized that I was a fat *******, and was going to waste my life if I didn't do something. I then lost 100 pounds over the next 11 months. I just walked on a treadmill a lot, and didn't let myself eat more than 1200 calories a day. If I knew then what I know now, I would have been lifting and eating better, instead of just watching calories and walking. A few years later, I started lifting weights when I moved in to a house where one guy lifted weights a lot. I bulked up pretty quickly, but since I am still a fat kid at heart, being cut has always been and will always be a challenge for me. As such, I have gained an intimate knowledge of nutrition, but I still have trouble following a good diet all the time, especially living in a country where pretty much everything you can find outside is both delicious and terrible for you. Anyway, here are the details of my diet first:
-I am trying to make sure that I get at least 200g of protein per day minimum (and up to 300 if I can).
-I am trying to eat as many whole-grain carbs and as few bleached carbs as possible.
-I am trying to cut out all refined sugars (or as many as humanly possible) and stick with natural sugar sources. Tropical fruit is always around, so this shouldn't be too difficult.
-I drink at least 1 gallon of water mixed with BCAA and creatine during my workout and at least one more gallon throughout the day.
-I am trying as hard as I can to eliminate all junk food (including but not limited to cakes, cookies, fatty meats, and dishes prepared with excessive amounts of cheap oil)
-I am trying to prepare all of my meals at home, but some days I will have to eat lunch at work.
-I will drink 1 beer on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. I will allow myself to have a second beer one night per week, but will try to limit it to that. The beer is also Anchor brand (pretty much the only American micro-brew we can get here), which of course does not use any rice or corn. While this might look bad, I have never seen anything that claims this much alcohol will inhibit growth or performance. We even used to have an article up on the wall of the BJJ school I go to that said drinking a beer after training can help. Not so sure about that, but I believe that as long as excessive consumption is avoided, the only real "danger" is the ~160 calories all from carbs. Any thoughts on this are appreciated!
-I have to go to a bachelor party for one of my best friends next Tuesday, and his wedding on Saturday. I plan on those being the only days when I consume too much alcohol. The wedding food will also be fatty, carby, and all-around unhealthy, but I suppose it is only one meal.
-I am only human, so I will have some snack-related cheating. I am remaining determined to make sure this stays at 100 calories or less. I have picked up some Swiss Miss chocolate ice bars at Costco for this purpose.
Breakfast every day will be either:
-a bowl of oatmeal (1/3 cup steal-cut oats...I think this is about 50 grams of carbs) with raisins and possibly other fruit added, and two scoops of protein powder (American Iso brand, if anyone cares) or
-a protein shake made from one banana, two scoops protein and ice, plus half of a honey wheat bagel (not whole grain, but not too bad I think)
I will try to eat the oatmeal unless I am getting sick of it, or if I am eating within two hours of my next meal (in which case the oatmeal might be too heavy, whereas I tend to digest a shake very quickly)
Lunch, afternoon snack, and Dinner will both consist of a lot of chicken and vegetables. Costco here sells pre-packaged chicken breasts that are an average of 0.4kg each. I will eat half of a package in one meal. Vegetables will be anything that looks good at the store. I have been eating a few different styles of chicken lately. One is a thai-style soup that I buy at Costco and is about 60 calories. I add chicken, shrimp and veggies to it, and use it for two meals. Another is to add a packet of pumpkin soup mix to a little bit of water and making it into a glaze that I then add pre-cooked chicken (or chicken and veggies) to. Another is to basically fry the chicken (non-stick pan with no oil) with some salt, pepper, and red pepper, then cover it with a little bit of ketchup, some onions (if I have them), and a lot of fresh salsa (Coasco sell it here. It is made locally and is only good for a few days after opening. It has no preservatives and is only tomatoes, onions, cilantro, and peppers). At lunch, I try to eat 1/2-1 cup of purple rice (basically brown rice with a bunch of other whole-grains in it...it's the healthiest thing ever, but doesn't taste great) with whatever chicken dish I bring into work, or some sweet potatoes or something if I eat at home. For my afternoon snack, I eat less carbs (but try to still eat some), and try to get some simple sugars in, especially if I will be working out. Dinner is about an hour before bed or less, so my rule is simple: no carbs except for anything that is in vegetables. Carbs at night make me gain fat very easily. Costco occasionally has lean beef, but it is rare since people here hate lean beef (and lean everything...and yet most people here are stick-thin...). I am really hoping to find it next time I go, so that I don't get bored with all of this chicken.
OK now exercise plan. I generally follow this plan Monday, Wednesday, and Friday:
-30 mins cardio (jogging with high resistance on elliptical machine)
-60-90 minutes of weights
-60-90 mins bjj
I drink my PWO and throw my giant bag-o-stuff on my scooter and head to the gym. I do the cardio and weights there, and then go to bjj (about 5 minutes away), change, and roll for 60-90 minutes (closer to 60 on Mon and Wed, and closer to 90 or more on Fri). I then go home, shower, eat something with a lot of protein in it and go to sleep as fast as possible. On Saturdays, I do legs. It is a more relaxed session since I am not under time constraints and often lift with a friend on that day. I sometimes forgo the PWO that day. I do 30 minutes of cardio and then 60-90 minutes of leg stuff. Because of the high resistence cardio and bjj, my legs are getting a workout constantly and are pretty much always a little sore, so I think that one day a week of legs is enough (any thoughts on that are welcome, of course).
I used to do DC and loved it, but I am now doing a more traditional push/pull split. I will go back to DC again someday, and I have enjoyed alternating between these two, but my back is pretty messed up (thought I blew a disc deadlifting, but the doctor said it looks like I broke it when I crashed my scooter a few years ago and just didn't notice...the disc is also probably ruptured, so I have to be careful and have just started doing light deads again a year later), which makes it more difficult to properly follow a DC plan. If I stretch a lot, cool-down properly, and pay attention to my body, my back usually feels fine, so I am very lucky. Right now I am planning to split something like this:
M-chest (probably 2 exercises), shoulder press, triceps
W-back width, back thickness, upright rows, biceps
F-chest (probably 2 exercises), shoulder press, triceps
S-legs (squat press, hex bar deads, sumo deads, light regular deads this day or on back day, etc...)
M-back width, back thickness, upright rows, biceps
W-chest (probably 2 exercises), shoulder press, triceps
F-back width, back thickness, upright rows, biceps
S-legs (squat press, hex bar deads, sumo deads, light regular deads this day or on back day, etc...)
OK so I think that is pretty much everything. Please give me any feedback you can, as well as any questions or comments. Sorry for this novel of a post.
05-31-2012, 08:11 AM
And to HSK, that does sound cool, but for now, I just have one bottle, so I will be sticking with 4/day. Honestly, 4/day works so well that I think I would have to be bulking for 6/day to even be possible (since I have to eat more carbs when taking it). Thanks for the idea, though. It may be something to try in the future!
05-31-2012, 09:33 AM
Hey, I was just browsing nutraplanet, and Anabeta has dropped to 30 dollars a bottle!!! Nattydisaster, is this a permanent change in price now that the Elite version is available? This is awesome news!!!
05-31-2012, 12:15 PM
05-31-2012, 12:58 PM
Thanks so much, dude! I did not realize there was a Memorial Day sale. I hope the price stays at that level, but I guess that might be too good to be true. At that price, 6 pills/day of regular Anabeta would be cheaper than 4/day of Anabeta Elite. I might have to take your advice next year and do a run with two bottles at 6/day...especially if the price doesn't change by the time I order from NP again. Thanks again!
05-31-2012, 04:02 PM
Your welcome! The prices are really good for a lot popular products. I ended up buying more stuff even though I just ordered the week before. Here is a link to the NP memorial day sale page.
06-01-2012, 12:17 PM
OK it is now day 3 and the Anabeta is making a large difference to my endurance and energy levels (with the length and intensity of my training sessions, this is huge). I have been getting too little sleep this week (about 6 hours a night), but I felt like I had as much or more energy than I do when sleeping a lot and eating more carbs. I left work late so I had to do only 15 min cardio and then do weights in 50 min. I took shorter set breaks, but still managed to lift as much or more than I normally lift with a lot of sleep and longer set breaks. Today was chest, shoulders, tris, and I felt like I totally killed it! I had to rush through everything but it was no problem to do it. I then went to bjj late (I got there at like 9:40 and started rolling at about 9:45 or 9:50), but kept rolling with no endurance issues until 11:30! Not every roll was 100% but normally I feel totally spent by this time of the week, and I still feel like I could keep rolling for another hour or two with no problems. Diet has been good so far. No cheat meals yet, all whole grains. Today I have eaten a protein shake for breakfast with a banana in it, and I then made some pumpkin chicken with about 1 pound of chicken, a cup of broccoli and cauliflower, and about a cup of purple rice (swiped the veggies and rice from work and then ran home to cook). I ate that in two sittings. Now I am about to go cook up a half-pound of chicken (not sure what else), and enjoy an Anchor porter after dinner (great porter, btw). My next cheat meal will probably not be until next weekend, but we will see. So far I am feeling great and will keep updating!
Edit: I am also down 1 kilo since Monday. I have gone from 85 (about 187) to 84 (about 185) since then, and I look noticeably different already. Here's hoping I can stay disciplined with my diet and exercise routines!
Last edited by tyrub42; 06-01-2012 at 12:20 PM. Reason: forgot something
06-01-2012, 02:19 PM
6 caps a day would kill me!! I eat all the time now and am hungry constantly. Also I wonder where diminishing returns would kick in. At the 4 caps you are getting almost 2x the amount used in the largest dose of the study (at 200lb 5'9" tall). "But" in the study each higher dose gave greater results that did not seem to taper... Love to see a study on larger doses. Guess I will try it and see if I can handle the hunger!
06-02-2012, 07:32 PM
06-03-2012, 09:28 AM
Thanks for the suggestion! That is definitely a solid-looking and cost effective stack, but DAA didn't do anything for me when I tried it (possibly because of my age). I threw the low dose of ATD in there just because I had it lying around. If I was going to spend money on an AI, I would definitely go with Erase like you suggested. I guess for the price, it might be worth giving DAA another shot, or maybe wait until after I hit 30...
06-03-2012, 09:42 AM
I lifted yesterday (no bjj, just lifting). It was a slow-starter of a day in the gym. I had to really push myself to get through my cardio, but after that was done and I started hitting the weights, the Anabeta was evident. I did sumo deads, shrugs, and quad extensions. I pulled more than I have since I hurt my back about 18 months ago. I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to risk hurting my back this early into the Anabeta cycle (or ever, haha), but the weight was just going up so easily, I had to keep going. I haven't done more than body weight since I hurt it, but yesterday I went up to 225. 185 felt lighter sumo than it usually feels on a normal deadlift (not sure about you guys, but I can usually pull a lot more on a normal deadlift than a sumo deadlift). Quad extensions felt great, although they are never much of a challenging exercise. When doing shrugs, I noticed that my grip still felt super strong, even after all the deads. I hold the last rep of shrugs when I do a set, and usually the 90 lb dumbbells start slipping out of my hands towards the end of my hold. Yesterday, they did not slip at all, even while holding.
Overall I am feeling really good, but I have not been great with my diet this weekend. Friday night, I had a beer and a half of a wheat bagel with dinner. Yesterday, I just barely got to 200 grams of protein, possibly only the 180-200 range, and I also ate about 300-400 calories of junk food before sleeping, plus one beer. Today, I have eaten about 100-120 grams so far and only have one meal left to eat before bed. Will try to get 60 grams in that meal, but that's still not great. I also ate about 200 calories worth of chocolate covered nuts (2 almond clusters), and 100-200 calories of sweet potato fries. Then my fiance brought me some steamed pork buns that I ate two of (probably 100 calories each...possibly 120+). While these aren't huge amounts of junk food, it is way more than I wanted and I am disappointed that I slipped so much this weekend. I will try to be better now, but I still have the bachelor party on Tuesday, and the wedding on Saturday. Hopefully will not kill the whole week's progress with the drinking.
06-03-2012, 09:55 AM
Idk if this has been mentioned , tl;dr all the advice but...lets see:
-Fish oil , space it out with meals...don't just mega dose it in the morning
-BCAA's specially the high leucine kind for the insulin spike should be post-workout or pre-workout , intra-workout is just a...not very efficient way to take it.
-Creatine is creatine , w.e kind/race/color/brand (Except Muscle Tech thats just plain sh1t) or continent it comes from , so you can dose it any time of the day...doesn't have to be pre or post or intra workout.
-Citrulline Malate is good preworkout , it does help the pumps , if you are gonna be following that protocol you could add Synthetic Supplements Agmatine To your preworkout , and given the caffeine in Max V2 , it will yield good pumps. However I personally rather use it more as a GDA some 30-45 mins before a high carb meal , 1 gram , at your weight prolly 1.5g , as it has many added health benefits too.
-Trying to cut? Add in AAv2 or my favorite Alpha T-2 if you are too sensitive for stims , could look into some Erase to help you dry out too.
And as for the training you didn't ask any advice...and if that routine works for you, well good luck! And give it your best. But as far as cutting goes , its all DIET and BURNING calories...either more cardio or more intense training (Circuit style...many people like that)...I know whats being the fat kid and then getting ripped bro...just keep your diet in check , check either real diets like Intermittent Fasting lifestyle changes , or Lyle McDonald Ultimate Diet 2.0 ...and well , cardio up , fasted cardio , High intensity cardio , LISS cardio , HIIT cardio , moderate cardio but...ALWAYS CARDIO!
>SNS-Glycophase<Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep
06-03-2012, 10:08 AM
06-03-2012, 10:40 AM
>SNS-Glycophase<Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep
06-03-2012, 04:08 PM
06-03-2012, 08:34 PM
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! That does sound really interesting about leucine spiking insulin. I will be honest, I haven't heard about that before, so it looks like I will have some stuff to google after work, haha. That will kind of suck if I can't effectively use BCAA intra, as it is also my whole flavoring system for my gallon of water that I drink during workouts (which would also make it kind of a PITA to take all at once at the end, but if it is more effective, I will see what I can do). My other concern with an insulin spike is that I don't eat carbs after workouts any night except Friday; what are your thoughts on that (spiking insulin if I am not eating carbs until the next morning)? Anyway, I hope you didn't feel that I was being condescending when I asked for sources; I was just trying to get more information since both of those things are different than most of what I have heard before (not to say that popular opinion is always right, of course). I do really appreciate your input, and was not trying to condescend you.
06-04-2012, 02:04 AM
Wow I forgot how sore heavy sumo deads can make your groin. I am walking around like an old man today (DOMS is always worst on the second day after I work a muscle). Cardio tonight is gonna suuuuuuuuuuuuck! Still feeling good overall, but I really let myself have it on Saturday!
06-04-2012, 10:36 AM
06-04-2012, 11:48 AM
Went on to have a CRAZY feeling pulling day. Doing chainsaws (not sure what the real name is for that exercise), I did 70-80-90-100 dumbbells with 2 minutes rest and got 15-14-7-5 reps, respectively. The highest I have ever done was 100 x 7 reps, but that was when I was specifically trying to see what my max was. Honestly, each weight went up like it was 10 pounds lighter than it actually was. Went on to up the intensity (I was late) with some pull downs (grip slightly wider than shoulder-width), upright rows, and hammer curls, before racing over to bjj. Bjj was a sweaty, disgusting mess as we currently have about 90% humidity (so I hear), and opted not to turn on the AC tonight. It was the only time there were literal puddles of sweat all over the mats. I had a good session, and then raced home to shower as fast as possible, haha. Had a small protein shake (~20 grams of protein...cytosport chocolate whey that I just picked up from Costco...surprisingly tasty), and now eating a smallish (25-30 grams of protein) piece of steak. Costco had top sirloin that looked not too fatty. I was able to trim most of the fat off of the edges. I needed something besides freaking chicken for a day, haha.
Overall still loving the Anabeta, but was disappointed with my weight today. The lazy diet of the weekend put me back up to 85kg on the scale. Not real weight, but it was a shock and helped give me the kick in the ass I needed to make sure I don't have any more f**k ups with my diet.
Tomorrow is the bachelor party. It will be fun, but will not help my progress. It, and the wedding on Saturday, will be the only times I drink too much this month. I will try to keep both withing reason, but who knows how crazy this BP is gonna get.
Will update again as soon as I can. Thanks, everyone!
06-04-2012, 12:14 PM
I dont think anyone else has touched on this, but you mentioned using ATD. I would definitely opt for something like Erase instead, because ATD has a good amount of data showing it is anti-androgenic.
Good luck with the wedding and the bachelor party!
PES - PM me anytime for any questions
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06-04-2012, 08:07 PM
Thanks a lot for mentioning this! The ATD is definitely the wildcard in this stack, as I really don't know if it is doing anything good or me at all. It also tastes like death because of the way I mixed it, so dropping it would not be a problem for me. I don't usually use any kind of AI, but I had 2 grams of ATD sitting around, and figured this was better than throwing it away. However, if it is likely to do more harm than good, I can just dump it. What does everyone think about that? Not so much ATD vs. another AI, but ATD vs. nothing? Would I be better off not using any AI at all? Thanks!
06-05-2012, 01:33 AM
06-05-2012, 06:19 AM
Quick bump for opinions on whether or not to continue ATD usage. I am doing a low dose (25 mg/day), and don't have another AI to replace it with (I bought two grams at like 2 or 3 dollars a gram when ATD was still cool and forgot I had it for a few years). I tried transdermal formestane years ago and got zero results from it (although I was 21 at the time, so maybe that is why it didn't do much), but never tried ATD. Given my age (28), the dosage (25 mg/day), and the other supplements I am taking, what do you guys think, keep using it, or trash it (and why)? It is my biggest question mark in this stack. Please give your opinions. Thanks!
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