Second time trying Anabeta + a few extras. All advice and input is appreciated!

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    Second time trying Anabeta + a few extras. All advice and input is appreciated!


    Hi Everyone,

    I tried Anabeta a few months ago and it was the only strength-building supplement that has ever worked for me. I found that it made me able to eat a lot more without gaining fat, gave me an increase in strength, and made me look leaner and stronger despite doing way too much late-night snacking. The only disappointment was that I aggravated an old hernia repair after three weeks and had to finish my run without any lifting while I waited to see if I had reherniated or not (turned out I didn't...yay). Now I am starting my second bottle, and I am planning to take my diet much more seriously. I am currently living in Taiwan and recently got engaged. I will be taking my wedding pictures in about four weeks (I don't know if this tradition is popular anywhere else in the world, as I have never been married before...but I think it's not a common thing in the states). I thought that was a good enough reason to get serious about this and really see what it could do. Today is my first day back on it and I am excited. I am always using BCAAs when I work out, but I have taken a couple of weeks off everything else. Now I am starting the following:

    -Anabeta-4 pills/day
    -CEE- 3~4 grams/day (mixed with BCAAs on workout days)
    -iForce Maximize V2- about 0.25 scoops pre-workout (I stopped drinking coffee last year and am now VERY sensitive to stims so this dose gets my amped up)
    -Citrulline Malate- 3-5 grams mixed with the MV2 preworkout (not sure if this does anything for me, but I had it lying around from years ago so why not?)
    -Yellow Gold- 0.5-1 gram before any carb meals that I eat at home (if I remember to take it, I still have some slin sane that I can take outside with me and will do that)
    -BCAA (a mix of Xtend, bulk modern BCAA, and bulk leucine (tastes better than straight bulk modern BCAA))- about 20 grams mixed into about a gallon of water intra-workout (plus the CEE)
    -Nutraplanet bulk cissus- 2-3 grams each morning and then 1 grams of supercissus when that runs out
    -Costco fish oil- 10 pills upon waking each day
    -Amazing Grass Green Superfood- 1 packet upon waking
    -Costco Multivitamin- Not sure if it does anything, but it is like 2 cents a pill
    -Costco B-Complex- Same thoughts as the multi...

    I am also planning on adding some ATD to this, but I want to make sure that you guys agree that it could be of some use to me. I have two grams that I bought before it was banned (I think it was banned, right?), so I read around here and decided to take one gram and mix it with 40 ml of tequila (I know, I know, but it was all I had lying around). In retrospect, I should have used half olive oil I guess, but at 1ml/day I guess it won't hurt anything except my taste buds. When shaken up, this suspends evenly (I read that androstenetrione dissolves in alcohol and mistook it for ATD, so I used all alcohol...oh well). I am thinking that taking 25 mg per day could provide benefits to me (trying to get as cut as possible while not losing much muscle), and wouldn't put me in much danger of sore joints or anything else.

    What do you guys think about adding the ATD? My specific questions are:
    1. Is it too old to be effective (about 5 years BUT it has been in cool, dehumidified rooms in the dark)?
    2. Would it, in your opinions, do anything for me at that dosage (25 mg/day)?
    3. Am I too young to be using it (I tried a test-booster that I still have bottles of before realizing that they are generally for people over 30, so it didn't do anything for me)?
    4. Are there any possible dangers/side effects from that dosage that any of you have experienced (I searched and didn't find too many problems, but give me your impressions from your experiences)?
    5. I read that the best time to take it is at night, before bed. Do you all agree with this?

    I will post later on tonight or tomorrow (Taiwan time...12-hour difference from US EST) with the details of my diet and workout routines, so I can get this log started right! I didn't want to add it to this post, since it is already waaaaaaaaaaaaay too wordy (sorry about that).
    Last edited by tyrub42; 06-05-2012 at 05:40 AM. Reason: Forgot to list some things

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    Good deal I'll b watching, I'm also taking anabeta
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    Nice, dude...hope it is working well for you. Today is day 1 and I already notice a difference in how I feel; a nice sense of well-being and my workout tonight was intense!

    On a side note, I just took my first dose of the ATD. If anyone wants to make what has to be literally the worst tasting thing you have ever tried, mix ATD with tequila. I was expecting the worst, but it was so much worse than what I thought the worst could be, haha.

    Will update with workout and diet details tomorrow, but I must get to sleep now.

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Nice layout man...I have always been a fan of the modern BCAA with AnaBeta due to the high leucine content

    I would use creatine mono over CEE but thats just me
    Amino-IV - Not Your Average Amino
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    ALPHAMINE - Thermogenics...Redefined
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    Thanks so much for the input! I was hoping that you guys would send me a bottle of the new AB Elite to log (sent an email about it awhile ago). Oh well, but can't blame a guy for trying, right?

    I don't get much from mono, personally. I usually use the NP di-creatine malate, but I switched to the CEE because it just seems to hit me better than anything else and I found an old tub that I forgot I had (although I have never gotten a HUGE difference from creatine). Still though, that CEE really ruins the taste of the BCAAs whereas the DCM just gives it a nice sour kick. Maybe I will have to switch to taking the CEE pre or post. Do you think there would be a big difference if I did that? I could also take it after weights but before bjj, so it would be intra, but just not a slow feed with the BCAAs. Any thoughts on that?

    OK, now it's bed time for real! Goodnight guys and thanks for any posts you leave. I will read and respond in the morning!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    New elite looks great but nothing wrong with the old version bro! Thanks for the tip on the modern bcaa, I'm going to add that in
  7. hsk
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    If your budget allows, you might want try bumping the AnaBeta up to 6 caps per day. This way you can get a little extra "umph" without having to add any additional supplements. When I ran 4 caps I liked it but when I bumped it up to 6 caps daily, it was a huge difference. The only downside was the increased hunger and thirst.
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    OK here are the details of my diet and exercise plans. For some background, I was a fat kid my whole life. When I was 16, I was 5'8" and weighed 260 pounds. I had an epiphany one day in class and realized that I was a fat *******, and was going to waste my life if I didn't do something. I then lost 100 pounds over the next 11 months. I just walked on a treadmill a lot, and didn't let myself eat more than 1200 calories a day. If I knew then what I know now, I would have been lifting and eating better, instead of just watching calories and walking. A few years later, I started lifting weights when I moved in to a house where one guy lifted weights a lot. I bulked up pretty quickly, but since I am still a fat kid at heart, being cut has always been and will always be a challenge for me. As such, I have gained an intimate knowledge of nutrition, but I still have trouble following a good diet all the time, especially living in a country where pretty much everything you can find outside is both delicious and terrible for you. Anyway, here are the details of my diet first:

    -I am trying to make sure that I get at least 200g of protein per day minimum (and up to 300 if I can).
    -I am trying to eat as many whole-grain carbs and as few bleached carbs as possible.
    -I am trying to cut out all refined sugars (or as many as humanly possible) and stick with natural sugar sources. Tropical fruit is always around, so this shouldn't be too difficult.
    -I drink at least 1 gallon of water mixed with BCAA and creatine during my workout and at least one more gallon throughout the day.
    -I am trying as hard as I can to eliminate all junk food (including but not limited to cakes, cookies, fatty meats, and dishes prepared with excessive amounts of cheap oil)
    -I am trying to prepare all of my meals at home, but some days I will have to eat lunch at work.
    -I will drink 1 beer on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. I will allow myself to have a second beer one night per week, but will try to limit it to that. The beer is also Anchor brand (pretty much the only American micro-brew we can get here), which of course does not use any rice or corn. While this might look bad, I have never seen anything that claims this much alcohol will inhibit growth or performance. We even used to have an article up on the wall of the BJJ school I go to that said drinking a beer after training can help. Not so sure about that, but I believe that as long as excessive consumption is avoided, the only real "danger" is the ~160 calories all from carbs. Any thoughts on this are appreciated!
    -I have to go to a bachelor party for one of my best friends next Tuesday, and his wedding on Saturday. I plan on those being the only days when I consume too much alcohol. The wedding food will also be fatty, carby, and all-around unhealthy, but I suppose it is only one meal.
    -I am only human, so I will have some snack-related cheating. I am remaining determined to make sure this stays at 100 calories or less. I have picked up some Swiss Miss chocolate ice bars at Costco for this purpose.

    Breakfast every day will be either:
    -a bowl of oatmeal (1/3 cup steal-cut oats...I think this is about 50 grams of carbs) with raisins and possibly other fruit added, and two scoops of protein powder (American Iso brand, if anyone cares) or
    -a protein shake made from one banana, two scoops protein and ice, plus half of a honey wheat bagel (not whole grain, but not too bad I think)

    I will try to eat the oatmeal unless I am getting sick of it, or if I am eating within two hours of my next meal (in which case the oatmeal might be too heavy, whereas I tend to digest a shake very quickly)

    Lunch, afternoon snack, and Dinner will both consist of a lot of chicken and vegetables. Costco here sells pre-packaged chicken breasts that are an average of 0.4kg each. I will eat half of a package in one meal. Vegetables will be anything that looks good at the store. I have been eating a few different styles of chicken lately. One is a thai-style soup that I buy at Costco and is about 60 calories. I add chicken, shrimp and veggies to it, and use it for two meals. Another is to add a packet of pumpkin soup mix to a little bit of water and making it into a glaze that I then add pre-cooked chicken (or chicken and veggies) to. Another is to basically fry the chicken (non-stick pan with no oil) with some salt, pepper, and red pepper, then cover it with a little bit of ketchup, some onions (if I have them), and a lot of fresh salsa (Coasco sell it here. It is made locally and is only good for a few days after opening. It has no preservatives and is only tomatoes, onions, cilantro, and peppers). At lunch, I try to eat 1/2-1 cup of purple rice (basically brown rice with a bunch of other whole-grains in it...it's the healthiest thing ever, but doesn't taste great) with whatever chicken dish I bring into work, or some sweet potatoes or something if I eat at home. For my afternoon snack, I eat less carbs (but try to still eat some), and try to get some simple sugars in, especially if I will be working out. Dinner is about an hour before bed or less, so my rule is simple: no carbs except for anything that is in vegetables. Carbs at night make me gain fat very easily. Costco occasionally has lean beef, but it is rare since people here hate lean beef (and lean everything...and yet most people here are stick-thin...). I am really hoping to find it next time I go, so that I don't get bored with all of this chicken.


    OK now exercise plan. I generally follow this plan Monday, Wednesday, and Friday:
    -30 mins cardio (jogging with high resistance on elliptical machine)
    -60-90 minutes of weights
    -60-90 mins bjj

    I drink my PWO and throw my giant bag-o-stuff on my scooter and head to the gym. I do the cardio and weights there, and then go to bjj (about 5 minutes away), change, and roll for 60-90 minutes (closer to 60 on Mon and Wed, and closer to 90 or more on Fri). I then go home, shower, eat something with a lot of protein in it and go to sleep as fast as possible. On Saturdays, I do legs. It is a more relaxed session since I am not under time constraints and often lift with a friend on that day. I sometimes forgo the PWO that day. I do 30 minutes of cardio and then 60-90 minutes of leg stuff. Because of the high resistence cardio and bjj, my legs are getting a workout constantly and are pretty much always a little sore, so I think that one day a week of legs is enough (any thoughts on that are welcome, of course).

    I used to do DC and loved it, but I am now doing a more traditional push/pull split. I will go back to DC again someday, and I have enjoyed alternating between these two, but my back is pretty messed up (thought I blew a disc deadlifting, but the doctor said it looks like I broke it when I crashed my scooter a few years ago and just didn't notice...the disc is also probably ruptured, so I have to be careful and have just started doing light deads again a year later), which makes it more difficult to properly follow a DC plan. If I stretch a lot, cool-down properly, and pay attention to my body, my back usually feels fine, so I am very lucky. Right now I am planning to split something like this:

    M-chest (probably 2 exercises), shoulder press, triceps
    W-back width, back thickness, upright rows, biceps
    F-chest (probably 2 exercises), shoulder press, triceps
    S-legs (squat press, hex bar deads, sumo deads, light regular deads this day or on back day, etc...)
    M-back width, back thickness, upright rows, biceps
    W-chest (probably 2 exercises), shoulder press, triceps
    F-back width, back thickness, upright rows, biceps
    S-legs (squat press, hex bar deads, sumo deads, light regular deads this day or on back day, etc...)
    etc...

    OK so I think that is pretty much everything. Please give me any feedback you can, as well as any questions or comments. Sorry for this novel of a post.

    Best,
    Tyler
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    And to HSK, that does sound cool, but for now, I just have one bottle, so I will be sticking with 4/day. Honestly, 4/day works so well that I think I would have to be bulking for 6/day to even be possible (since I have to eat more carbs when taking it). Thanks for the idea, though. It may be something to try in the future!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Hey, I was just browsing nutraplanet, and Anabeta has dropped to 30 dollars a bottle!!! Nattydisaster, is this a permanent change in price now that the Elite version is available? This is awesome news!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    And to HSK, that does sound cool, but for now, I just have one bottle, so I will be sticking with 4/day. Honestly, 4/day works so well that I think I would have to be bulking for 6/day to even be possible (since I have to eat more carbs when taking it). Thanks for the idea, though. It may be something to try in the future!

    Best,
    Tyler
    No worries. I did that during a recomp and noticed that 6 caps did a lot more for me. It was hard at times due to the increased hunger and thirst, but I was able to lean out considerably despite increasing calories as well as carbs. Additionally, my recovery time from training was very fast. Also, I beleive the temporary price drop is due to NP Memorial Day sale. Good luck with your goals and congrats on your wedding.
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    Thanks so much, dude! I did not realize there was a Memorial Day sale. I hope the price stays at that level, but I guess that might be too good to be true. At that price, 6 pills/day of regular Anabeta would be cheaper than 4/day of Anabeta Elite. I might have to take your advice next year and do a run with two bottles at 6/day...especially if the price doesn't change by the time I order from NP again. Thanks again!
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    Your welcome! The prices are really good for a lot popular products. I ended up buying more stuff even though I just ordered the week before. Here is a link to the NP memorial day sale page.

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/planet/ar...orial-day-sale
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    OK it is now day 3 and the Anabeta is making a large difference to my endurance and energy levels (with the length and intensity of my training sessions, this is huge). I have been getting too little sleep this week (about 6 hours a night), but I felt like I had as much or more energy than I do when sleeping a lot and eating more carbs. I left work late so I had to do only 15 min cardio and then do weights in 50 min. I took shorter set breaks, but still managed to lift as much or more than I normally lift with a lot of sleep and longer set breaks. Today was chest, shoulders, tris, and I felt like I totally killed it! I had to rush through everything but it was no problem to do it. I then went to bjj late (I got there at like 9:40 and started rolling at about 9:45 or 9:50), but kept rolling with no endurance issues until 11:30! Not every roll was 100% but normally I feel totally spent by this time of the week, and I still feel like I could keep rolling for another hour or two with no problems. Diet has been good so far. No cheat meals yet, all whole grains. Today I have eaten a protein shake for breakfast with a banana in it, and I then made some pumpkin chicken with about 1 pound of chicken, a cup of broccoli and cauliflower, and about a cup of purple rice (swiped the veggies and rice from work and then ran home to cook). I ate that in two sittings. Now I am about to go cook up a half-pound of chicken (not sure what else), and enjoy an Anchor porter after dinner (great porter, btw). My next cheat meal will probably not be until next weekend, but we will see. So far I am feeling great and will keep updating!


    Edit: I am also down 1 kilo since Monday. I have gone from 85 (about 187) to 84 (about 185) since then, and I look noticeably different already. Here's hoping I can stay disciplined with my diet and exercise routines!

    Best,
    Tyler
    Last edited by tyrub42; 06-01-2012 at 11:20 AM. Reason: forgot something
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    6 caps a day would kill me!! I eat all the time now and am hungry constantly. Also I wonder where diminishing returns would kick in. At the 4 caps you are getting almost 2x the amount used in the largest dose of the study (at 200lb 5'9" tall). "But" in the study each higher dose gave greater results that did not seem to taper... Love to see a study on larger doses. Guess I will try it and see if I can handle the hunger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I tried Anabeta a few months ago and it was the only strength-building supplement that has ever worked for me. I found that it made me able to eat a lot more without gaining fat, gave me an increase in strength, and made me look leaner and stronger despite doing way too much late-night snacking. The only disappointment was that I aggravated an old hernia repair after three weeks and had to finish my run without any lifting while I waited to see if I had reherniated or not (turned out I didn't...yay). Now I am starting my second bottle, and I am planning to take my diet much more seriously. I am currently living in Taiwan and recently got engaged. I will be taking my wedding pictures in about four weeks (I don't know if this tradition is popular anywhere else in the world, as I have never been married before...but I think it's not a common thing in the states). I thought that was a good enough reason to get serious about this and really see what it could do. Today is my first day back on it and I am excited. I am always using BCAAs when I work out, but I have taken a couple of weeks off everything else. Now I am starting the following:

    -Anabeta-4 pills/day
    -CEE- 3~4 grams/day (mixed with BCAAs on workout days)
    -iForce Maximize V2- about 0.25 scoops pre-workout (I stopped drinking coffee last year and am now VERY sensitive to stims so this dose gets my amped up)
    -Citrulline Malate- 3-5 grams mixed with the MV2 preworkout (not sure if this does anything for me, but I had it lying around from years ago so why not?)
    -Yellow Gold- 0.5-1 gram before any carb meals that I eat at home (if I remember to take it, I still have some slin sane that I can take outside with me and will do that)
    -BCAA (a mix of Xtend, bulk modern BCAA, and bulk leucine (tastes better than straight bulk modern BCAA))- about 20 grams mixed into about a gallon of water intra-workout (plus the CEE)
    -Nutraplanet bulk cissus- 2-3 grams each morning and then 1 grams of supercissus when that runs out
    -Costco fish oil- 10 pills upon waking each day

    I am also planning on adding some ATD to this, but I want to make sure that you guys agree that it could be of some use to me. I have two grams that I bought before it was banned (I think it was banned, right?), so I read around here and decided to take one gram and mix it with 40 ml of tequila (I know, I know, but it was all I had lying around). In retrospect, I should have used half olive oil I guess, but at 1ml/day I guess it won't hurt anything except my taste buds. When shaken up, this suspends evenly (I read that androstenetrione dissolves in alcohol and mistook it for ATD, so I used all alcohol...oh well). I am thinking that taking 25 mg per day could provide benefits to me (trying to get as cut as possible while not losing much muscle), and wouldn't put me in much danger of sore joints or anything else.

    What do you guys think about adding the ATD? My specific questions are:
    1. Is it too old to be effective (about 5 years BUT it has been in cool, dehumidified rooms in the dark)?
    2. Would it, in your opinions, do anything for me at that dosage (25 mg/day)?
    3. Am I too young to be using it (I tried a test-booster that I still have bottles of before realizing that they are generally for people over 30, so it didn't do anything for me)?
    4. Are there any possible dangers/side effects from that dosage that any of you have experienced (I searched and didn't find too many problems, but give me your impressions from your experiences)?
    5. I read that the best time to take it is at night, before bed. Do you all agree with this?

    I will post later on tonight or tomorrow (Taiwan time...12-hour difference from US EST) with the details of my diet and workout routines, so I can get this log started right! I didn't want to add it to this post, since it is already waaaaaaaaaaaaay too wordy (sorry about that).
    It's pretty solid. Id look into running an anabeta DAA erase stack, that's been hands down the most effective one I've used,
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    Thanks for the suggestion! That is definitely a solid-looking and cost effective stack, but DAA didn't do anything for me when I tried it (possibly because of my age). I threw the low dose of ATD in there just because I had it lying around. If I was going to spend money on an AI, I would definitely go with Erase like you suggested. I guess for the price, it might be worth giving DAA another shot, or maybe wait until after I hit 30...
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    I lifted yesterday (no bjj, just lifting). It was a slow-starter of a day in the gym. I had to really push myself to get through my cardio, but after that was done and I started hitting the weights, the Anabeta was evident. I did sumo deads, shrugs, and quad extensions. I pulled more than I have since I hurt my back about 18 months ago. I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to risk hurting my back this early into the Anabeta cycle (or ever, haha), but the weight was just going up so easily, I had to keep going. I haven't done more than body weight since I hurt it, but yesterday I went up to 225. 185 felt lighter sumo than it usually feels on a normal deadlift (not sure about you guys, but I can usually pull a lot more on a normal deadlift than a sumo deadlift). Quad extensions felt great, although they are never much of a challenging exercise. When doing shrugs, I noticed that my grip still felt super strong, even after all the deads. I hold the last rep of shrugs when I do a set, and usually the 90 lb dumbbells start slipping out of my hands towards the end of my hold. Yesterday, they did not slip at all, even while holding.

    Overall I am feeling really good, but I have not been great with my diet this weekend. Friday night, I had a beer and a half of a wheat bagel with dinner. Yesterday, I just barely got to 200 grams of protein, possibly only the 180-200 range, and I also ate about 300-400 calories of junk food before sleeping, plus one beer. Today, I have eaten about 100-120 grams so far and only have one meal left to eat before bed. Will try to get 60 grams in that meal, but that's still not great. I also ate about 200 calories worth of chocolate covered nuts (2 almond clusters), and 100-200 calories of sweet potato fries. Then my fiance brought me some steamed pork buns that I ate two of (probably 100 calories each...possibly 120+). While these aren't huge amounts of junk food, it is way more than I wanted and I am disappointed that I slipped so much this weekend. I will try to be better now, but I still have the bachelor party on Tuesday, and the wedding on Saturday. Hopefully will not kill the whole week's progress with the drinking.

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Idk if this has been mentioned , tl;dr all the advice but...lets see:

    -Fish oil , space it out with meals...don't just mega dose it in the morning
    -BCAA's specially the high leucine kind for the insulin spike should be post-workout or pre-workout , intra-workout is just a...not very efficient way to take it.
    -Creatine is creatine , w.e kind/race/color/brand (Except Muscle Tech thats just plain sh1t) or continent it comes from , so you can dose it any time of the day...doesn't have to be pre or post or intra workout.
    -Citrulline Malate is good preworkout , it does help the pumps , if you are gonna be following that protocol you could add Synthetic Supplements Agmatine To your preworkout , and given the caffeine in Max V2 , it will yield good pumps. However I personally rather use it more as a GDA some 30-45 mins before a high carb meal , 1 gram , at your weight prolly 1.5g , as it has many added health benefits too.
    -Trying to cut? Add in AAv2 or my favorite Alpha T-2 if you are too sensitive for stims , could look into some Erase to help you dry out too.

    And as for the training you didn't ask any advice...and if that routine works for you, well good luck! And give it your best. But as far as cutting goes , its all DIET and BURNING calories...either more cardio or more intense training (Circuit style...many people like that)...I know whats being the fat kid and then getting ripped bro...just keep your diet in check , check either real diets like Intermittent Fasting lifestyle changes , or Lyle McDonald Ultimate Diet 2.0 ...and well , cardio up , fasted cardio , High intensity cardio , LISS cardio , HIIT cardio , moderate cardio but...ALWAYS CARDIO!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Idk if this has been mentioned , tl;dr all the advice but...lets see:

    -Fish oil , space it out with meals...don't just mega dose it in the morning
    -BCAA's specially the high leucine kind for the insulin spike should be post-workout or pre-workout , intra-workout is just a...not very efficient way to take it.
    -Creatine is creatine , w.e kind/race/color/brand (Except Muscle Tech thats just plain sh1t) or continent it comes from , so you can dose it any time of the day...doesn't have to be pre or post or intra workout.
    -Citrulline Malate is good preworkout , it does help the pumps , if you are gonna be following that protocol you could add Synthetic Supplements Agmatine To your preworkout , and given the caffeine in Max V2 , it will yield good pumps. However I personally rather use it more as a GDA some 30-45 mins before a high carb meal , 1 gram , at your weight prolly 1.5g , as it has many added health benefits too.
    -Trying to cut? Add in AAv2 or my favorite Alpha T-2 if you are too sensitive for stims , could look into some Erase to help you dry out too.

    And as for the training you didn't ask any advice...and if that routine works for you, well good luck! And give it your best. But as far as cutting goes , its all DIET and BURNING calories...either more cardio or more intense training (Circuit style...many people like that)...I know whats being the fat kid and then getting ripped bro...just keep your diet in check , check either real diets like Intermittent Fasting lifestyle changes , or Lyle McDonald Ultimate Diet 2.0 ...and well , cardio up , fasted cardio , High intensity cardio , LISS cardio , HIIT cardio , moderate cardio but...ALWAYS CARDIO!
    Thanks for the info, Celorza! Do you have any sources for the fish oil and BCAA dosing information? I am not doubting you, but I have heard that dosing fish oil in the morning was a good idea (also my breakfast doesn't have any fat in it and I heard that cissus should always be taken with at least some fats), and that dosing BCAAs intra was really good for you, as they are supposedly able to get absorbed rapidly and get to your muscles as they are being strained in a workout. After changing my dosing for the fish oil and BCAA to morning and intra, respectively, I have noticed a positive difference, but I am definitely open to changing it up again if need be. Any more information or links on those would be great. Thanks so much for your advice, dude!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrub42 View Post
    Thanks for the info, Celorza! Do you have any sources for the fish oil and BCAA dosing information? I am not doubting you, but I have heard that dosing fish oil in the morning was a good idea (also my breakfast doesn't have any fat in it and I heard that cissus should always be taken with at least some fats), and that dosing BCAAs intra was really good for you, as they are supposedly able to get absorbed rapidly and get to your muscles as they are being strained in a workout. After changing my dosing for the fish oil and BCAA to morning and intra, respectively, I have noticed a positive difference, but I am definitely open to changing it up again if need be. Any more information or links on those would be great. Thanks so much for your advice, dude!

    Best,
    Tyler
    I didn't mean to NOT having the fish oil in the morning , but don't dose it ALL in the morning , have the fish oil spread out with more meals. Now as for the BCAA's intraworkout I'm gonna have to ask for the link from Tomahawk , it all comes down to spiking Insulin with the High Leucine , I did see it being more effective since it did come with studies after it , and when I tried it I noticed I was just falling for the same old propaganda and placebo effect one gets from believing the media or their write ups on products on the website that they sell em at, I'm not gonna lie , stuff looks great in there nice and neat beside the add to cart...but if you really are just piling in a bunch of Leucine , the reaction will be an insulin spike which would be best followed by some carbs and protein , if thinking fast protein for spike , Hydrosolates would be the best...its more of a preference but hey , its ok if you don't believe lol , I don't keep all my sources at hand like many here , I do for the AAS section when I see a newb going without a SERM haha I smack them with links...And well , mainly is mostly advice I picked up here from the guys , specially Mr.Cooper , if you need some data , he keeps it close at hand all the time , so go ahead shoot him a PM hehe , I don't like the condescending tone I feel sometimes from people when they ask my sources xD so for easy reference ask Mr.Cooper like I said haha , in the end , its just advice , they are all just supps you don't really need (well the fish oil yeah...I'm not gonna lie that sh*t is magic I tell yah) but the rest , no one needs sups to cut/bulk , if I advice someone on how to use em best its because I care ;p and in the end its just advice , need some more info , it is a PM and a search away ! Good luck on your goals!

    Best
    Cesar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    I didn't mean to NOT having the fish oil in the morning , but don't dose it ALL in the morning , have the fish oil spread out with more meals. Now as for the BCAA's intraworkout I'm gonna have to ask for the link from Tomahawk , it all comes down to spiking Insulin with the High Leucine , I did see it being more effective since it did come with studies after it , and when I tried it I noticed I was just falling for the same old propaganda and placebo effect one gets from believing the media or their write ups on products on the website that they sell em at, I'm not gonna lie , stuff looks great in there nice and neat beside the add to cart...but if you really are just piling in a bunch of Leucine , the reaction will be an insulin spike which would be best followed by some carbs and protein , if thinking fast protein for spike , Hydrosolates would be the best...its more of a preference but hey , its ok if you don't believe lol , I don't keep all my sources at hand like many here , I do for the AAS section when I see a newb going without a SERM haha I smack them with links...And well , mainly is mostly advice I picked up here from the guys , specially Mr.Cooper , if you need some data , he keeps it close at hand all the time , so go ahead shoot him a PM hehe , I don't like the condescending tone I feel sometimes from people when they ask my sources xD so for easy reference ask Mr.Cooper like I said haha , in the end , its just advice , they are all just supps you don't really need (well the fish oil yeah...I'm not gonna lie that sh*t is magic I tell yah) but the rest , no one needs sups to cut/bulk , if I advice someone on how to use em best its because I care ;p and in the end its just advice , need some more info , it is a PM and a search away ! Good luck on your goals!

    Best
    Cesar

    Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! That does sound really interesting about leucine spiking insulin. I will be honest, I haven't heard about that before, so it looks like I will have some stuff to google after work, haha. That will kind of suck if I can't effectively use BCAA intra, as it is also my whole flavoring system for my gallon of water that I drink during workouts (which would also make it kind of a PITA to take all at once at the end, but if it is more effective, I will see what I can do). My other concern with an insulin spike is that I don't eat carbs after workouts any night except Friday; what are your thoughts on that (spiking insulin if I am not eating carbs until the next morning)? Anyway, I hope you didn't feel that I was being condescending when I asked for sources; I was just trying to get more information since both of those things are different than most of what I have heard before (not to say that popular opinion is always right, of course). I do really appreciate your input, and was not trying to condescend you.

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Wow I forgot how sore heavy sumo deads can make your groin. I am walking around like an old man today (DOMS is always worst on the second day after I work a muscle). Cardio tonight is gonna suuuuuuuuuuuuck! Still feeling good overall, but I really let myself have it on Saturday!
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    lol waddling around work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    lol waddling around work?
    Haha, I swear like 5 minutes of English Conversation class today was me explaining what a deadlift is and then making fun of myself for moving like an 80-year-old man...BUT the Anabeta definitely came to the rescue today. My DOMS in my legs usually hangs out for literally 4-5 days (today being day 1), but by the time I left work, I was actually feeling much better. I went to do cardio tonight and it did not suck nearly as much as I thought. Still did feel some soreness, but I was able to buckle down and KILL IT. At the end of 30 minutes I had "burned" like 40 more "calories" than I usually do (I use the quotes because the calorie counters on cardio machines are BS except they are useful for keeping track workout by workout).

    Went on to have a CRAZY feeling pulling day. Doing chainsaws (not sure what the real name is for that exercise), I did 70-80-90-100 dumbbells with 2 minutes rest and got 15-14-7-5 reps, respectively. The highest I have ever done was 100 x 7 reps, but that was when I was specifically trying to see what my max was. Honestly, each weight went up like it was 10 pounds lighter than it actually was. Went on to up the intensity (I was late) with some pull downs (grip slightly wider than shoulder-width), upright rows, and hammer curls, before racing over to bjj. Bjj was a sweaty, disgusting mess as we currently have about 90% humidity (so I hear), and opted not to turn on the AC tonight. It was the only time there were literal puddles of sweat all over the mats. I had a good session, and then raced home to shower as fast as possible, haha. Had a small protein shake (~20 grams of protein...cytosport chocolate whey that I just picked up from Costco...surprisingly tasty), and now eating a smallish (25-30 grams of protein) piece of steak. Costco had top sirloin that looked not too fatty. I was able to trim most of the fat off of the edges. I needed something besides freaking chicken for a day, haha.

    Overall still loving the Anabeta, but was disappointed with my weight today. The lazy diet of the weekend put me back up to 85kg on the scale. Not real weight, but it was a shock and helped give me the kick in the ass I needed to make sure I don't have any more f**k ups with my diet.

    Tomorrow is the bachelor party. It will be fun, but will not help my progress. It, and the wedding on Saturday, will be the only times I drink too much this month. I will try to keep both withing reason, but who knows how crazy this BP is gonna get.

    Will update again as soon as I can. Thanks, everyone!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    I dont think anyone else has touched on this, but you mentioned using ATD. I would definitely opt for something like Erase instead, because ATD has a good amount of data showing it is anti-androgenic.

    Good luck with the wedding and the bachelor party!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I dont think anyone else has touched on this, but you mentioned using ATD. I would definitely opt for something like Erase instead, because ATD has a good amount of data showing it is anti-androgenic.

    Good luck with the wedding and the bachelor party!

    Thanks a lot for mentioning this! The ATD is definitely the wildcard in this stack, as I really don't know if it is doing anything good or me at all. It also tastes like death because of the way I mixed it, so dropping it would not be a problem for me. I don't usually use any kind of AI, but I had 2 grams of ATD sitting around, and figured this was better than throwing it away. However, if it is likely to do more harm than good, I can just dump it. What does everyone think about that? Not so much ATD vs. another AI, but ATD vs. nothing? Would I be better off not using any AI at all? Thanks!
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    In for bachelor party stories
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    Quick bump for opinions on whether or not to continue ATD usage. I am doing a low dose (25 mg/day), and don't have another AI to replace it with (I bought two grams at like 2 or 3 dollars a gram when ATD was still cool and forgot I had it for a few years). I tried transdermal formestane years ago and got zero results from it (although I was 21 at the time, so maybe that is why it didn't do much), but never tried ATD. Given my age (28), the dosage (25 mg/day), and the other supplements I am taking, what do you guys think, keep using it, or trash it (and why)? It is my biggest question mark in this stack. Please give your opinions. Thanks!
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    Sorry guys, I forgot to list a couple of things on page one. I am taking A green shake (Amazing Grass brand from Costco) daily and have been for about a year. I will also start taking the Costco brand multi and b complex that I have here. Not sure if those do anything, but I have them. Anyway, please comment on the ATD post above. Thanks!
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    Just got back from the bachelor party...it was...as expected. I have never been to one before, but the details that I can get into without incriminating anyone are: giant luxury hotel room including large private swimming pool and several hot tubs, more booze than any room should have, about 40 rowdy dudes, and some live...entertainment...interes ting experience to say the least, but this night is gonna cost me as far as progress goes. Even so, it was worth it! Hopefully will feel ok tomorrow. Still trying to drink a Sh*tload of water and the Taiwanese version of Gatorade ("Super Supau," which, honestly, is the most delicious "sports drink" ever) before I go to sleep. Goodnight, all...and please, comment on the ATD question above!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Woke up feeling understandably hungover today. Luckily I had some sulbutiamine laying around. About 500 mg of that got me through work today. Still feeling rough but I am not going to let that stop me. Leaving now, will report later. Hopefully my workout ends up being ok!
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    Well, tonight's workout sucked! Cardio was actually really good, and I was able to go faster and harder than usual for some reason. Once I got on the weights, it was bad. I needed much longer set breaks (4 min), was feeling dizzy and terrible from the hangover, had a massive headache, and tried as best I could to push through it. I ended up only getting two exercises in (flat bench and military dumbbells). My numbers were too much lower than normal, but I felt like ass, and before I knew it it was 10 o clock, and I had to go home. I had to skip bjj altogether because of how bad I felt. Hopefully the hangover will be gone tomorrow, and I will be able to get back to killin' it on Friday.
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    Today's workout was intense! I did back, biceps and traps today. My grade 12 students have graduated, so now I only have to work from 5-6:30 on Fridays. I was able to wake up, eat breakfast, and then 2 hours later I was off to the gym. Cardio was a slow starter today (that usually happens if I do it within a few hours of waking up), but finished strong. Once I was lifting, I felt like an animal. I was blasting through sets fairly quickly, and my numbers were impressive. Doing bent-over rows, I was able to pull 205 for 4 reps. My personal best on that is 205 for either 4 or 5 reps. That might not sound too impressive, since it is only at or slightly below my personal best, BUT I was not trying to see how much I could pull today. I was doing every set to utter exhaustion, and only taking 2 minute breaks between sets. 205 was my fourth set, so I had already exhausted myself three other times, taken shorter breaks than normal, and still tied or almost tied my best set ever for that exercise. This was all done while losing weight. I was down to 83.5kg today (about 184 pounds), down from 85 when I started Anabeta (like 9 days ago). I will have to wait to see if 83.5 was legit or not, since it was a different time of day than when I usually weigh myself; however I am looking leaner and fuller all over. This week, I started feeling more aggressive than normal. Nothing out of control, but I feel like a bit of an animal in the gym and I can feel it all day now. I am also recovering much faster. I had a workout today that was more intense than what I am used to, which would normally kill my energy for the rest of the day, but I feel wide awake and full of energy right now, three hours after finishing the workout. I don't feel sore at all, and the only severe DOMS I have felt in the past week was from a very intense legs day. Even that gave me much less DOMS than it normally would have, and I recovered from it faster as well.

    As far as downsides so far, I can't think of much. I was hoping for the weight to melt off a bit faster, but it makes sense that it isn't, since I am eating a lot (even though it is all much healthier than normal). I am still leaning out at a good pace, but if I am above 83KG at the end of next week, I will have to reduce my PM carb intake. My digestive system has also been feeling rough since I started this. I don't think this is because of the Anabeta, as I have never noticed this effect before. I suspect it is either the creatine, the ATD, or the food. I am still not really noticing any distinct feeling from the ATD, but at the dose I am taking, and my lack of results from another AI, chances are it will either do nothing, or it will have a very subtle effect that wouldn't be super noticeable. Still not sure if it is even worth taking it, but I looked into the negative effects of ATD and it seems like none of them should be noticeable at 25mg/day. If I am wrong, please someone tell me!!!

    Well, I guess that's it for now. I am going to go do some bjj and get to bed. I have to be at the wedding at 10am tomorrow morning. It goes from 10-10, so I will have to bring some protein powder or chicken breasts or something. As usual, please leave any questions, comments, etc. (this thread has not been getting too much love in recent days...)
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    Hey guys,

    Not sure if anyone is reading this anymore, but I will keep on posting. Anabeta is in full swing, and I have been feeling energized and aggressive lately. I had to look for an apartment on Monday and had to watch my students' play tonight, so I couldn't do bjj, but I did manage to get great workouts in on both days. Monday I ran to the gym right after work. I got a killer Chest/shoulders/triceps workout on Monday. Today was probably the best workout I have had since I started. It was a pulling day, so I did bent over rows, chainsaws, and some squat presses since I missed my legs day last Saturday. Then it was getting late so I super setted narrow grip pull downs (slightly wider than shoulder width), upright rows, and bicep curls. I set personal records on bent over rows and chainsaws in the same day, which was surprising. For bent over rows, I did 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100kg in sets of 20, 15, 10, 5, and 1, respectively. I have never been able to get 100kg up before today, and I am pretty sure that my best set of 90kg was 4 reps. After that, I did squat presses, and then chainsaws. For chainsaws I did sets with 70, 80, 90, and 100 pound dumbbells (yeah, some weights here are in pounds and some in kg...not sure why) in sets of 15, 12, 10, and 6 reps, respectively. I have never gotten 90s up 10 times before (not even sure if I have gotten 8 before today), and I have never gotten 100s up more than 4 times before. This is especially significant since this was after blasting my lats with bent over rows. I also usually get really poor workouts if I wake up early, but today it was no problem.

    My weight as of today is 83.2kg. I am not sure if that is legit or not, since it is a different time of day then I usually weigh myself, so I will have to see how much I weigh on Friday. It seems like so far, so good, though. I am now two weeks into it and feeling the effects of my diet and supplements. I am finding it more and more difficult to stick to my diet recently, but I am finding ways around it. I think I will not be able to eat purple rice or oatmeal for a few days. I will have to change my morning meal to a protein shake with a banana and half a wheat bagel, and today I started eating a great meal that I forgot about: chicken breasts with sweet potatoes. I take about 150g sweet potato, fry up some garlic in a little olive oil, throw in the potatoes, add a little terriaki and mash it all together. I ate that for two meals today and it was awesome. That should get me through at least another week before I get sick of it. That's all for now!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    Awesome gains man, I gained like seven lbs on ABE and am going to try upping the dose just out of curiosity tomorrow. not sure what my overall recomp has been. I am not trying to bulk up right now, but next time I run it I want to get my BF checked before and after and keep b & a pics etc. doing 6 caps a day probably just to see whether it would be worth doing a whole cycle of the higher dosed stuff.

    edit* decided to run 8 a day for $h1ts n giggles, see what happens.
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    Tyler definetely still following, keep it up bro
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    Thanks for the replies, guys! I was starting to get lazy about this log, as I didn't think anyone was following it. Had two more great workouts on Friday and Saturday. Got my bench back up to the 225 mark, which it hasn't been at in a loooooong time (stopped prioritizing chest as it isn't a super useful muscle compared to a strong back and legs, then hurtmy rotator cuff and labrum a few years ago so had to take a few months completely off, which never helps anything haha). Overdid it on deadlifts yesterday. I haven't done more than bodyweight since I hurt my back (December 2010), but the weight was just feeling so light, I had to bump it up. Went to 205 then 225 (or something like that...90kg then 100kg). Got 6 reps in a 225 then got scared and stopped. Gave my back a good stretch, finished quads, did another round of back stretches, and went home. I was hoping to wake up without any oh-sh#t-what-did-I-do-to-myself feeling in my back. I woke up feeling awesome! Not only does my back feel great with no signs that I aggravated the disc injury, I have no soreness in my back or legs...at all. I was thinking about it today, and this past week I had no DOMS in any muscle group. Usually I don't get anything too bad in any body part except legs. My legs get crazy DOMS (as I mentioned before, I usually end up hobbling around like an old man 2 days after legs day), and going 50 pounds heavier than normal on deadlifts would usually leave me with VERY sore hamstrings. I still have to wait and see what tomorrow brings, but as of now I have no DOMS at all, whereas I would normally have significant DOMS today and it would be almost crippling tomorrow (ok that was a little overstated, but you get the idea). The Anabeta is still going strong. I am still feeling much more driven then usual in the gym. Yesterday, I didn't take my PWO since I went to the gym really late, but I felt almost no difference; even my cardio went well. I am also still feeling more aggressive than usual, but nothing too crazy. I managed not to do anything stupid yesterday when a small, middle-aged man decided to inform my fiance and I that we should go back to America (not as politely stated, of course, and in Chinese)...repeatedly...and yelling at her since apparently in his mind, no foreigner would ever bother to learn any Chinese.

    OK now the bad. I am in the middle of getting everything prepared for the wedding pics, and also looking for a new apartment. Because of those, I was not able to do bjj at all on Monday or Wednesday, and then I stayed home on Friday because of a torrential rainstorm that I didn't want to drive through on my scooter. I have also let my diet go a bit in the last few days. Friday was my cheat meal (pizza party with my honors class), buuuuut after that I ate like 3 cookies before bed. Yesterday, I had to go to a neighboring city so my fiance could pick out wedding dresses for the pictures, and I could pick out tuxedos. Everything went well, but she got hungry afterwards, and wanted to go to eat Thai food. I was intent on not eating anything, but once there was a large plate of pad thai at the table, that plan went out the window. Then today, I had to be up at 7 for a funeral (death in her family...sad stuff but no details necessary). Afterwards the whole family went out to a "re chao," which basically serves up some of the greasiest and most delicious stuff you could imagine, all family style. Everyone in her family is super nice, but that screws me over if I am watching my diet, as they all load my plate up with whatever is going around. Not everything is super greasy, but one dish can sum up how bad the food can be for your health: fried bread ...it's exactly what it sounds like. So basically, i have had cheat meals three times in three days. Not good, and my weight will reflect it. However, I do plan on stepping it up in the next 10 days before the pics: one cheat meal in ten days which I don't intend on eating too much at (Wednesday pizza party at work), stepping up workout intensity even more if possible, and thinking about extending cardio to 40 minutes, from 30...also I will cut carbs completely on my last two meals on non-training days.

    That's it for now...sorry about the long post. Thanks for following!

    Best,
    Tyler
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    tyrub42's Avatar
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    5'10"  187 lbs.
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    Jul 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by d1sc1ple View Post
    Awesome gains man, I gained like seven lbs on ABE and am going to try upping the dose just out of curiosity tomorrow. not sure what my overall recomp has been. I am not trying to bulk up right now, but next time I run it I want to get my BF checked before and after and keep b & a pics etc. doing 6 caps a day probably just to see whether it would be worth doing a whole cycle of the higher dosed stuff.

    edit* decided to run 8 a day for $h1ts n giggles, see what happens.
    Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn dude, 7 lbs already? How long have you been running it? Any noticable fat gain/loss just from looks? How would you compare ABE to regular AB? Keep me posted on the 8 pills/day...sounds like it could be INTENSE!
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