Teenager and supplements
- 04-29-2012, 03:47 PM
Teenager and supplements
I have a question for you.
My son has recently started lifting weights (14) He has done core strength training for years and has been very active in wrestling on a very competetive level.
Currently he is working out with a trainer as I want to ensure that he is utilizing good form.
Now that he has transitioned to lifting I am curious about supplements. I am in the health field and have done quite a bit of research with mixed results that has led to more questions than answers.
I would be curious what others would suggest regarding supplement usage. Any advice would be appreciated.
- 04-29-2012, 03:51 PM
04-29-2012, 03:52 PM
What supplements are you wondering about? Generally, kids should wait to use supplements until they are older than your son currently is. Probably 90% of supplements, actually.
The only actual supplement that I think he could contemplate would be creatine. But I'm sure even this would be controversial depending on who you ask.
At this point his time would be best spent on continuing his training, as it sounds like you all have a good plan established. And also, eating correctly for him to reach his goals.
Diet and training > supplements
Save sorrow for the souls in doubt
04-29-2012, 05:45 PM
The old standby is that diet and training make up about 99% of your end result. Supplementation is a very small part of lifting, and it's often thought of as a necessity rather than an addition to the training/diet routine.
I would suggest your son continue his routine for the time being, and not worry about supplementation.
04-29-2012, 06:00 PM
Not even creatine would be good for him at 14 years old...Even it says so on the label for 18+. Best supplement for him will be a good diet , to keep going with the exercise and maybe , and i said MAYBE, some protein powder, Whey as a post or preworkout , just simple protein with nothing extra , if he wants casein for nightime , give him cottage cheese or greek yogurt , some milk along the way too (HEB's Mootopia is quite healthy). But nothing more , at their age they dont need any supplements at all.
04-29-2012, 06:23 PM
Muscle- He is 14, He is a little guy. 4ft 8in, 85lbs.
Unsure what other measurables you want. He does sets of a hundred push ups at a time, and sets of 20 pull ups. He is lifting 3 x week and wrestling 3 x week.
His main goal is to put on weight so he can be large enough when he is a freshman to wrestle (106lbs) . He also likes the idea of putting on muscle and getting stronger.
He has not hit puberty yet and obviously that will be better than any supplement.
The main supplements that I have read about have been Whey protein and creatine.
My research seemed to support the use of whey protein and not creatine.
Agree with all the comments in regards to diet and training being the best supplement but I am interested in using the Whey protein.
How would you go about taking this and at what dose. I have never purchased this product and would like a recommendation of a product to purchase. Do you take before workouts or after?
Thanks again for the advice.
04-29-2012, 06:35 PM
If your son is around 85 lbs, then he can get the majority of protein from food sources, such as chicken and fish. The best thing to do is to calculate his BMR and TEE to find his caloric goal for the day, then ensure he's eating over that to put on weight. If he's hell bent on adding whey protein, that would be fine, but a good amount of chicken/fish/red meat would give him the same effects.
04-29-2012, 06:40 PM
04-29-2012, 07:25 PM
Ozark- I am a physician and would love to read the data that shows creatine is safe in boys not yet in puberty. I haven't really been able to find any articles that support its use in this age group.
Valhalla- BMR- Basic metabolic rate, TEE?
Does it matter when you take the whey protein (pre/post workout) Is there a straight Whey protein you would recommend?
04-29-2012, 07:31 PM
04-29-2012, 08:24 PM
I started using protein/creatine when I was 14 at the advice of my strength coach and haven't seen any studies that would suggest not to. I see nothing wrong with the use of these for a serious athlete in their early teens. Whey protein can be used at any time of the day but many opt to use it post workout. He needs to focus on eating (above maintenance calories) and can use whey to "supplement" what should already be a protein rich diet.
04-29-2012, 08:47 PM
04-29-2012, 09:34 PM
04-29-2012, 09:35 PM
If your son is that young, avoid anything testoserone related. Anything like DAA, aromatase inhibitors, etc. If I were to develop a supplement regimen for a kid that age, I'd give him some BCAA'S to take on an empty stomach when he's cutting weight. This will prevent him from burning as much muscle tissue during intensive dieting while still allowing him to burn fat. Taking them with food renders them much less effective, if not useless, so keep that in mind. Protein powder and creatine are both good.
As far as the protein powder goes, try and make sure he's getting some source of protein every 3-4 hours wether it's from food, a protein shake or BCAA's (they can be counted toward protein intake). A lot of people will advise against creatine, but this is nonsense. Creatine can be found in many dietary sources and has a spotless safety profile despite what a lot of alarmist bloggers (who generally fail to cite actual research along with their claims) seem to suggest. It has numerous health benefits, including cognitive enhancement according to recent studies. Make sure he's drinking a lot of water along with it.
I'd also consider giving him some GABA pre-workout. Your body has a natural hormonal response to exercise, it increases growth hormone and testosterone production. GABA has been shown to increase the body's growth hormone response to exercise by 500%, post workout. I also find that it helps with cardiovascular . GABA has a pretty spotless safety record and is naturally occuring as well, though of all the supps I suggested, it would probably be the most controversial because it's the least widely known. My suggestion to you would be to do a bit of research on this one yourself before making a call, but I personally don't see any problem including it.
04-29-2012, 09:37 PM
04-29-2012, 09:57 PM
valhalla- Whey protein supplements are largely fine to utilize. Most folks take them in order to reach their overall protein goal, which varies between 1-1.5g/lbs lean body mass.
Is this a typo. I thought the amount of protein would be 1-1.5g/KG not lbs
His BMR is 1200 so Multiplying by the TEE of 1.4 gives a minimum caloric need of 1800cal/day.
His weight is 85lbs so I calculated a daily protein need of 60gms.
My head is spinning right now with all of the responses. I appreciate all of your thoughts. Most of you have a tremendous knowledge on this subject. I can tell you know this subject inside and out.
Am I thinking of this wrong. If he has 3 glasses of milk a day and 1 chicken breast and 1 egg he will already be at 60 gms (total protein need). If this is the case why would I give him whey protein?
J19- I must admit I don't know what BCAA's are.
Thanks again folks. This is very informative.
04-29-2012, 09:59 PM
I agree with most of the above comments, i also started lifting around or a little before 14. And at his age and weight i don't believe whey would be necessary. At his weight he can consume enough protein naturally without the extra supplementation (which is always superior), however it would help for his pre and post workout nutrition. He's bound to hit puberty soon, which is better than any supplement. Put him on a balanced meal plan and you'll get the best results. I can say from experience that he'll plateau at a weight until he has a growth spurt, 21 pounds is a lot too demand from a boy who hasn't hit puberty yet.
P.S.- if you'd like too, personal message me and i can send you a sample diet
04-29-2012, 10:02 PM
Muscle- thanks for the thoughts. I will PM you. BTW- he is only in 7th grade so he has a little over 1.5 years.
04-29-2012, 10:09 PM
And BCAAs are . Amino acids are the building blocks of protein, and there are 9 essential amino acids that your body cannot produce, so you can supplement them and your body will use them to make new proteins and feed your muscles to prevent your body from going catabolic (or breaking itself down for energy). They are normally used for cutting phases to maintain muscle and lose fat, however i'm sure your son isn't going to be cutting anytime soon.
04-29-2012, 10:15 PM
I want to reiterate the importance of the developmental phases of life. He should not engage in a rigorous cutting program at age 14. At such an early age, macronutrient requirements are also different, and I recommend a balanced diet rather than one that is protein-heavy. Whey protein is fine, as is a low-dosed fish oil. That's about as far as I'd go for now.
04-29-2012, 10:15 PM
04-29-2012, 10:20 PM
04-29-2012, 10:28 PM
04-29-2012, 10:33 PM
04-29-2012, 10:45 PM
Creatine is safe at any age and is found naturally in a lot of foods like red meat. I tend to think of whey less as a supplement more as a powder form food although less effective than real solid foods. No need for supplemenation outside those two items, continue your research as it will help in the future and youll learn to sift through the real data and the bull thats out there. Let the kid hit puberty and hell make moves fast.
By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
04-29-2012, 10:51 PM
Do you guys all really believe this 14 year old, 85 pound kid exists? These posts pop up every few months.
04-29-2012, 11:09 PM
04-29-2012, 11:14 PM
Furthermore, I agree with MrCooper , and though I was smacked before by someone else that creatine isnt bad for a 14 y.o. , true as it might be that it wont give damage immediatly , in the long run and with wrong dosages (specially being a kid who thinks more is better) creatine can actually cause damage to the system, and to the least a very...very...very nasty diarrhea case!. Stick to low doses fish oil and maybe Whey, like I said before, I aint no pro like MrCooper here, but not only him but many other users FAR more experienced than me have argued this too.
04-29-2012, 11:20 PM
04-29-2012, 11:22 PM
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