creatinol phosphate

[AndShane]

What exactly is this? How is different from creatine. I am looking into this product because I am looking to avoid the bloating from regular creatine? Any ideas?

 

[Daycrawler]

What exactly is this? How is different from creatine. I am looking into this product because I am looking to avoid the bloating from regular creatine? Any ideas?

From UncleWade:

While it's commonly thought creatinol-o-phosphate is essentially another form of creatine, it's a completely different chemical compound with completely separate ergogenic benefits as compared to any form of creatine.

I would recommend MCC though - give it a shot, sometimes it does potential a myriad of nice effects for mono non-responders. Also, you might consider taking one of the daily doses (two of three pills) pre-bed, as the magnesium sometimes enhances sleep.

 

[mr.cooper69]

From UncleWade:

From Mr.Cooper69:

While it's commonly thought creatinol-o-phosphate is essentially another form of creatine, it's a completely different chemical compound with completely separate ergogenic benefits as compared to any form of creatine.

I would recommend MCC though - give it a shot, sometimes it does potential a myriad of nice effects for mono non-responders. Also, you might consider taking one of the daily doses (two of three pills) pre-bed, as the magnesium sometimes enhances sleep.

Fixed . COP is great primarily for endurance and exercise capacity, as well as cardiac benefits. It won't cause you to hold water as it is not creatine.

And most bloating issues with monohydrate have potential to be alleviated with a creatine form that has an alternative form of uptake. Since CEE is bunk, that leaves Magnesium Creatine Chelate.

 

[PrepNwa23]

I'm a huge fan of COP and it's endurance benefits when used with CM.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I'm a huge fan of COP and it's endurance benefits when used with CM.

Cryoshock actually uses a very nice dose, was checking that out earlier!

 

[PrepNwa23]

Anymore I usually get 2 grams of COP a day using BodyForge.

 

[fightbackhxc]

COP, CM and Beta Alanine are my favorites.

 

[GHO5T]

I'm a huge fan of COP and it's endurance benefits when used with CM.

I totally agree. I hope to see it in more products in the future.

 

[rob112]

IIRC it increases ATP production, thus "see posts above"

 

[UncleWade]

Fixed . COP is great primarily for endurance and exercise capacity, as well as cardiac benefits. It won't cause you to hold water as it is not creatine.

And most bloating issues with monohydrate have potential to be alleviated with a creatine form that has an alternative form of uptake. Since CEE is bunk, that leaves Magnesium Creatine Chelate.

You have things nailed down, so all I can do is spread the awareness Coop.

2g of COP has had acute and cumulative benefits for me - combined with CM, I have been absolutely shattering personal records this week and it has been absolutely fantastic. Add to that stack some Magnesium Creatine Chelate and Beta Alanine from SNS and you're golden for a basic, economical stack that will hit almost every facet of performance you're looking to improve during your time in the gym.

 

[OrganicShadow]

I havent used any product with COP but of all forms of creatine I find the phosphated compounds to be the best options. Purely monohydrate has its benefits but more cons than pros for me. CEE is junk. I've been using NeoVar for a while and really impressed with the way it affects the appearance and performance of muscle tissue. Not quite Creatinol but still has the phospho group to shoot into the muscle tissue.

So what makes Creatinol so different? I've used krealkalyn and creatine phosphates and found them pretty good... this is news to me.

 

[UncleWade]

I havent used any product with COP but of all forms of creatine I find the phosphated compounds to be the best options. Purely monohydrate has its benefits but more cons than pros for me. CEE is junk. I've been using NeoVar for a while and really impressed with the way it affects the appearance and performance of muscle tissue. Not quite Creatinol but still has the phospho group to shoot into the muscle tissue.

So what makes Creatinol so different? I've used krealkalyn and creatine phosphates and found them pretty good... this is news to me.

Creatinol-o-phosphate is not related to creatine in its method-of-action, and is an entirely different compound compared to various forms of creatine.

It does seem to share some of its ergogenic benefits, but this is as far as the similarities run.

 

[OrganicShadow]

I'll have to do some homework on it.

BB.com exile? That's an unspoken standard. lol

 

[Grayson]

Does this need to be dosed on off days? And is there a loading period?

 

[booneman77]

I've used molecular nutrition's peak beta + (ran a log on it here) which had cop and really enjoyed it. Saw great strength and endurance gains from it

 

[mw1]

Does this need to be dosed on off days? And is there a loading period?

No loading. I generally use it on off days as well for recovery

 

[Grayson]

No loading. I generally use it on off days as well for recovery

Does this work well with X-Gels?

 

[Driven2lift]

Another solid option is Genomyx protocol, great to add into BCAAs on off days or to preworkouts. 1 serving is 3g leucine, 1g COP, 1g lclt, 250 mg agmatine.

Helps me power through long workouts and recover quicker. comes out to under 0.50 a serving so I double up for preworkout purposes to hit my 2g COP.

Love using COP before workouts but unfortunately most pre's don't disclose the amount per serving, I will be looking into buying bulk

 

[mw1]

Does this work well with X-Gels?

Yes..its pretty much become staple for me considering the price/benefits

 

[Jiigzz]

Does this work well with X-Gels?

Absolutely. I definitely think COP is underrated

 

[Jiigzz]

Another solid option is Genomyx protocol, great to add into BCAAs on off days or to preworkouts. 1 serving is 3g leucine, 1g COP, 1g lclt, 250 mg agmatine.

Helps me power through long workouts and recover quicker. comes out to under 0.50 a serving so I double up for preworkout purposes to hit my 2g COP.

Love using COP before workouts but unfortunately most pre's don't disclose the amount per serving, I will be looking into buying bulk

SNS has COP in bulk. Definitely worth a shot to add to other preworkouts.

 

[booneman77]

Does this need to be dosed on off days? And is there a loading period?

No loading per say but it did seem to take a few days to build up in my system and see max benefits (3-4 days or so). I would take it on rest days just to keep it consistent

 

[Brucega]

Take a look at our Endurance BCAA Plus product. Very well dosed 2:1:1 with the addition of BA and COP. We have a lot of people take this as a stim free PWO as well.

 

[uubiduu]

I still have no clue if the one tub of E-COP from Prototype Nutrition will be sufficient for a 50-day run. I would take one scoop per day (2g COP) and also on rest days. Good idea?

 

[Driven2lift]

Peak beta just dropped on sale, 2 for 1 effectively. Definitely jumping on this, 2g COP per dose, has me covered.

 

[AndroRage]

So what exactly is its method of action? Regenerates ATP? Lactic acid buffer?

When people say it increase "endurance" what exactly are we referring to, aerobic or anaerobic capacity?

To be honest I'm not a cyclist, so if its aerobic capacity I'm interested as it enhances performance and all effective ergogenic aids do interest me but not enough to go out and buy it.

 

[Driven2lift]

Personally since running it I have had more endurance in terms of workout volume, I wouldn't say I've noticed strength increase but definitely can bang out more reps, also recovery time between sets is better and soreness after the workout is lessened.

Currently cutting and having no strength loss as of yet, want to include COP in a recomp/bulk and see how it does then.

 

[booneman77]

Personally since running it I have had more endurance in terms of workout volume, I wouldn't say I've noticed strength increase but definitely can bang out more reps, also recovery time between sets is better and soreness after the workout is lessened. Currently cutting and having no strength loss as of yet, want to include COP in a recomp/bulk and see how it does then.

I had a nearly identical experience. Nothing "cardio" related per say but def more workout volume and better intensity throughout

 

[Distilled Water]

Need to get some COP, this added volume is kicking my ass and I still have 4 weeks of prep to grind out

 

[Jiigzz]

So what exactly is its method of action? Regenerates ATP? Lactic acid buffer?

When people say it increase "endurance" what exactly are we referring to, aerobic or anaerobic capacity?

To be honest I'm not a cyclist, so if its aerobic capacity I'm interested as it enhances performance and all effective ergogenic aids do interest me but not enough to go out and buy it.

Its MOA is not really understood at this stage. Very limited data on it. You could make an assumption that it has the potential to buffer a drop in intracellular PH which occurs during exercise and therefore prolong muscle contractions. I.e. as H+ ions accumulate during exercise (thus limiting it), COP has the potential to limit this effect and thus ensure you get out a few extra reps.

 

[bakerwil]

I use Peak Beta 6 caps PWO for my main two (longer) workouts. Would not workout with out it! And COP really shines under high volume. Reps just keep going and going....

 

[Distilled Water]

Just picked up iforce conquer for my COP fix. I'll give it a try 2maro!!!

 

[schizm]

Just picked up iforce conquer for my COP fix. I'll give it a try 2maro!!!

Does that have 2g's of COP per serving in it? That's generally the recommended dose..

 

[pyrobatt]

4g cop works well for me. I am thinking its due to body weight *245+now* and height . May be wrong. I can however say I think it was PA who said it needs to be taken every day

 

[Distilled Water]

Does that have 2g's of COP per serving in it? That's generally the recommended dose..

If not, I'll be killing someone.

It's a prop blend that's about 7gr with COP being first, imagine it's about 2gr

 

[schizm]

If not, I'll be killing someone.

It's a prop blend that's about 7gr with COP being first, imagine it's about 2gr

Yowsa, that's what I call COP-rage...lol...

 

[JD261985]

I've been taking SNS COP but the dose is 1.5 g compared to 4 g per day with prototype nutritions effervescent COP. Think I'm gonna switch back. And yea I dealt do think you're supposed to take it everyday. At least 1 gram on off days. So many conflicting opinions

 

[AndroRage]

If not, I'll be killing someone.

It's a prop blend that's about 7gr with COP being first, imagine it's about 2gr

I hate proprietary blends. Especially since a lot of compounds have "effective dosages" thus your not sure if your ingesting enough. Really annoys me.

Ps how is conquer? I mean as a prep workout in general? I would appreciate you opinion as I've noticed the only people who seem to sing its praises rep for Iforce -_- but it does seems to have a solid profile all be in a proprietary blend...

 

[AndroRage]

I use Peak Beta 6 caps PWO for my main two (longer) workouts. Would not workout with out it! And COP really shines under high volume. Reps just keep going and going....

I also considered Peak Beta +. Solid company, good profile. I also considered Protocol V2...

Can you speak more of your experiences & also dosing on other days? Thanks

 

[bakerwil]

I also considered Peak Beta +. Solid company, good profile. I also considered Protocol V2...

Can you speak more of your experiences & also dosing on other days? Thanks

Personally, I only use it pre-workout (and not for cardio only workouts). I did not see much difference between dosing 6 and 8 caps; however, you may. This is one product I will continue to use. I have not used any other CP products, but found Peak Beta to be the best value. Give it a try - I have not seen anyone not react favourably.

 

[Distilled Water]

I hate proprietary blends. Especially since a lot of compounds have "effective dosages" thus your not sure if your ingesting enough. Really annoys me. Ps how is conquer? I mean as a prep workout in general? I would appreciate you opinion as I've noticed the only people who seem to sing its praises rep for Iforce -_- but it does seems to have a solid profile all be in a proprietary blend...

I really enjoy it. I liked maxamize intense also (about the same thing) they slightly improved the flavor still nothing to write home about.

Overall I like it. I was having trouble with all my pre workouts effecting my stomach (worked well but was bloated and felt sick) no issues so far with two scoops.

 

[p5sky]

Are you saying that creatine phosphate, and COP are fat soluble because of the phosphate group??? Then why the heck is this form not sold in body building shops instead of crappy creatine monohydrate...

Creatine is not the same as COP, go back and read again.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I am very well aware of this, and also very well aware body building supplement sales men only want to sell people creatine monohydrate, and so they dismiss all other forms, and say they don't work. One tactic they have to dismiss COP is to say "COP is not creatine". COP is a phosphagen like creatine ,and it is entering cells through a different mechanism than the creatine transporter, wether it is fat soluble or going through a different transport mechanism I'm not quite sure. If it is entering cells differently because of the phosphate group then creatine phosphate should do the same. COP actually works where as monohydrate does not.

Creatine Mono has something like 700+ studies, with about an 85% scientific consensus showing that it is effective (there are non-responders however, and recent data suggests it may have to do with dietary intake of Creatine rich foods - they're already topped off). It is also about $15 a Kilo. Unless you have a physiological intolerance to it, why use something else? Other forms of Creatine may work, and some just don't (CEE for one) - see: https://examine.com/nutrition/what-is-the-best-form-of-creatine/ (LOL at Jeff Gollini's Kre-Alkylin, hahahaha) - but CM is the cheapest and best supported.

COP on the other hand has zero data on it when swallowed by athletes (and it isn't even injected into cardiac muscle anymore) - if you have any (in English preferably, my Italian is rusty) please, please, please be the first one to post any on AM. Patrick Arnold even tried to hawk the stuff (his form was the only one that "worked" of course) - but it was always "Sold Out" and isn't even on his site anymore IIRC. It's probably dirt cheap, which is why it's a filler in a lot of stuff - scientific proof it does something when supplemented orally in weight lifters please...

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Creatine monohydrate is not fat soluble, and can only enter cells through the creatine transporter which switches off when the cell has enough creatine. Creatine phosphate, and COP are fat soluble, and so can diffuse into the cell regardless of the existing creatine content. Here is something body building salesmen will never say- 100% of the creatine in meat is phosphocreatine because unphosphorolated creatine has a half life of only 3 hours in blood, and presumably in the cell.

Patrick Arnold is a con man like everyone else in the industry. The amount of lies about supplements in the industry is shocking. There is a lot of data on COP in patents, and some in the abstract only studies on NCBI. For the full kinetic data someone will have to seek out the 1979 Journal with the data in it. There is a list of libraries that have it on the website worldcat. I will seek it out, as I'm sure PA, and other people in the industry have, however I will scan, and post the data on the internet for everyone else to see, unlike everyone else who has looked at it.

I'm sure body building salesmen take COP themselves, and then sell ****ty monohydrate to their customers.

Patents are not "tested" for efficacy by the USPTO - I'm pretty sure the 'Shake Weight' is patented, as is CLA and Green Coffee Bean for "fat loss". For such an incredibly awesome "thing" - you sure do seem to have to jump through a lot of almost 40 year old hoops to find data on COP. Is yours a double blind RCT on athletes (weight lifters) who swallowed a few grams? Creatine Mono flat out works in most, doesn't in some - 700+/85% is better than anything else you can find.

I'm not really a big fan of the salesmen either, but going after CreMo, in the face of all the science, seems a bit a waste of resources. Thanks for trying to find COP data that applies to oral supplementation in weight lifters.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Ok buddy, have good one.

 

[rtmilburn]

Creatine monohydrate does not work in 70% or more of users. That's why the salesmen of it don't take it themselves.

The data on COP is in the patents. It is well absorbed by the guts, enters cells independent of the creatine transporter, and recycles ATP just like creatine phosphate , along with its good heart effects.

I have an idea- why don't body building business owners start selling supplements that actually work.... What is so bad about that... or is it more than money... you/they don't want other people to get gains...

SFreed hairygrandpa Brandinooooo mmorso this guy might be the dumbest person on this board even over heyboy

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Creatine monohydrate does not work in 70% or more of users. That's why the salesmen of it don't take it themselves.

The data on COP is in the patents. It is well absorbed by the guts, enters cells independent of the creatine transporter, and recycles ATP just like creatine phosphate , along with its good heart effects.

I have an idea- why don't body building business owners start selling supplements that actually work.... What is so bad about that... or is it more than money... you/they don't want other people to get gains...

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Hahahaha! Going OT - I laughed my ass off at this one :