How to Construct a Basic Supplement Stack

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    Post How to Construct a Basic Supplement Stack


    From my post on another board...

    I thought I'd lay out a basic supplement stack for anyone who is interested.


    Vitamins and Minerals


    There are two main approaches to supplementing your vitamin and mineral needs.


    1. Multivitamin


    Pros:
    -Multivitamins are great because they conveniently include every vitamin and mineral that your body may need on a daily basis
    -Multivitamins are essentially a cheap insurance policy to ensure that deficiencies do not occur.


    Cons:
    -Multivitamins, due to their large composition of ingredients, are pharmacokinetically challenged. When taken with food, the increased gastric motility may reduce overall micronutrient absorption. On the flip side, if taken without food, fat-soluble vitamins may suffer lesser absorption.
    -Most multivitamins do not account for interactions and uptake overlap between the various constituents of the formula.


    How to purchase a multivitamin:


    You want to purchase a multivitamin that uses superior vitamin forms and chelated minerals while circumventing the "cons" listed above.


    Good Choices:


    -AOR Orthocore
    -Orange Triad
    -Source Naturals Life Force Multiple


    2. ACES


    Pros:
    -Doesn't have the "cons" associated with multivitamins


    Cons:
    -Expensive and inconvenient


    How to purchase ACES:


    Let me start by elucidating what ACES is: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and Selenium. On top of ACES, you will also want vitamin D, a b-complex, and a mineral complex.


    Good Choices:


    Vitamin A - Solaray Food Carotene 10,000IU
    Vitamin C- Ester-C or Generic Ascorbic Acid - 500mg
    Vitamin E- Toco-8 or MRM Complete-E
    Selenium- 100mcg of seleniomethionine (don't exceed 200mcg daily)
    Vitamin D- Generic Brand 5000 IU D3 in fall/winter, 2000 IU in spring/summer
    B-Complex - AOR B-Complex or Jarrow B-Right
    Mineral Complex - NOW Minerals


    Some may prefer to dose the water-soluble vitamins multiple times a day (B and C). Personally, I would take a B-Complex 1-3 times a day and vitamin C 1-2 times a day, away from training sessions.


    Fish Oil


    Pros:
    -If the diet is deficient in Omega-3s from fish, fish oil supplementation is a great idea. The benefits are profound: reduced inflammation, increased protein synthesis in the elderly, fatty acid balance, optimized brain function, reduced blood pressure, and transiently increased energy expenditure following meals.


    Cons:
    -None if dosed responsibly.


    How to pick a fish oil:


    You ideally want a fish oil with high epa/dha content. Plasma saturation of epa/dha occurs at 3g total daily, which is what you should be aiming for.


    Good choices:


    Controlled Labs Orange Oximega Fish Oil
    NOW Ultra Omega-3
    Nordic Naturals
    SAN Triple Fish Fats


    Creatine


    Pros:


    -The primary benefit is increased anaerobic capacity. This means you will shift more weight for more reps in the 1-15 rep range.
    -Others: brain function, immune support, improved glucose tolerance, improved bone health, enhanced muscular hydration and volumization.


    Cons:
    -None if used in healthy individuals and dosed correctly.


    How to pick a creatine:


    Simple: pick creatine monohydrate. Dose at 5g every day for the first month, and then 3-5g on workout days only thereafter. Certain individuals may respond better to Magnesium Creatine Chelate as far as GI issues are concerned. For particular forms of creatine, I'll answer what I can in this thread.


    Good Choices:


    SNS Creatine Monohydrate
    Allmax Micronized Creatine
    ON Micronized Creatine


    Beta-Alanine


    Pros:
    -Increased muscle carnosine translates into increased muscular endurance and performance. Complements creatine quite well.
    -A variety of benefits are associated with increased carnosine, such as greater longevity and reduced soreness following exercise.


    Cons:
    -Some users may experience parathesia, a tingling sensation, if too much beta-alanine is taken at once.


    How to choose a beta-alanine product:


    Beta-alanine is best used by dosing multiple times a day in small doses. It should be used every day at 3.2-6.4g daily, for months on end. A good beta-alanine product will simply meet label claims, though I prefer capsules because it makes the "multiple-times-a-day" dosing far more convenient.


    Good choices:


    SNS Beta-alanine Caps
    AEN IntraXCell
    Gaspari Anavite at 6 tabs/day




    So there you have 4 basic supplements for any user who is seeking to optimize performance and overall health. I will expand on this list in the future, but this is simply the "base" from which you can build up.

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    ive been debating on using aces vs now adam, which ive been using currently...
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    ive been debating on using aces vs now adam, which ive been using currently...
    There's a reason I didn't recommend ADAM and it's because it [supposedly] failed consumer report dissociation tests. I don't know if the issue has been amended since then.
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    where would green supreme fusion and oxigreens come into play as far as vit's and min's
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    If I may add.. Avoid eating high phytic acid foods (grains) around the time you supplement with minerals

    Also, 3g fish oil is pushing it IMO. I wouldn't exceed 360/440 EPA/DHA. Also one should try and get a fish oil low in EPA, as it is plausible that high EPA can have a negative effect on ones HPA

    Lastly, curcumin is a top 5 supplement for me and I would add it to this list
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    No love for MuscleFeast? They have really good deals on BA and Creatine usually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    If I may add.. Avoid eating high phytic scid food (grains) when supplementing with minerals

    Also, 3g fish oil is pushing it IMO. I wouldn't exceed 360/440 EPA/DHA. Also one should try and get a fish oil low in EPA, as it is plausible that high EPA can have a negative effect on ones HPA

    Lastly, curcumin is a top 5 supplement for me and I would add it to this list
    Agreed with comment 1.

    Why is 3g epa/dha pushing it? The studies done showing negative effects of fish oil supplementation used a higher dose. Unless you're eating fatty fish, I don't see much merit in consuming only 800mg daily. The EPA speculation is also overblown; I can find flaws with DHA too. They're both essential, and you want to dose them right.

    Curcumin has extremely poor bioavailability, even if heat-treated/administered with piperine to inhibit the
    CYP3A4 enzyme/etc...It is a great anti-cancer agent in the gut, but that's as far as it goes. The issue lies with its solubility and ability to reach tissues of the body (outside of the GI tract). If you are absolutely mega-dosing curcumin (which I would never do as a staple due to cost), then it may be worthwhile.

    To quote madchemist, who actually schooled me in this earlier:

    "Curcumin is heavily restricted by its poor solubility and rapid metabolism. In humans taking between 9 and 12 grams of curcumin, the highest plasma concentration observed was 1.8 micromol/ml (anything below 3.8-4 grams is completely undetectable). The en vitro studies which demonstrate an anti-cancer and anti-alzheimers effect use between 5-50 micromol/ml and submit the cell lines to curcumin for hours on end (quite unrealistic)."
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrepNwa23 View Post
    No love for MuscleFeast? They have really good deals on BA and Creatine usually.
    Those are only recommendations. I didn't say they're all-inclusive
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    pretty good layout, for multivitamin I use a powder form since it better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Agreed with comment 1.

    Why is 3g epa/dha pushing it? The studies done showing negative effects of fish oil supplementation used a higher dose. Unless you're eating fatty fish, I don't see much merit in consuming only 800mg daily. The EPA speculation is also overblown; I can find flaws with DHA too. They're both essential, and you want to dose them right.

    Curcumin has extremely poor bioavailability, even if heat-treated/administered with piperine to inhibit the
    CYP3A4 enzyme/etc...It is a great anti-cancer agent in the gut, but that's as far as it goes. The issue lies with its solubility and ability to reach tissues of the body (outside of the GI tract). If you are absolutely mega-dosing curcumin (which I would never do as a staple due to cost), then it may be worthwhile.

    To quote madchemist, who actually schooled me in this earlier:

    "Curcumin is heavily restricted by its poor solubility and rapid metabolism. In humans taking between 9 and 12 grams of curcumin, the highest plasma concentration observed was 1.8 micromol/ml (anything below 3.8-4 grams is completely undetectable). The en vitro studies which demonstrate an anti-cancer and anti-alzheimers effect use between 5-50 micromol/ml and submit the cell lines to curcumin for hours on end (quite unrealistic)."
    As for EPA, the amount I posted was only my opinion. I can cite references for why I believe this but dont want to derail the thread too much. Overall nothing is really too conclusive but it is pretty clear there is a relationship between EPA/DHA supplementation and the HPA

    As for curcumin, admittedly the majority of studies are either in vitro or in rats with only a handful of human studies but in my opinion curcumin still shows a great deal of potential. As far as its effects on cancer, yes that is one of the benefits but there is also evidence on its effects on numerous physiological systems with very little evidence pointing to side effects. Again I can cite references but dont wish to derail the thread, only expressing my opinion.

    Now I do agree that curcumin's bioavailability is quite low, but large doses may circumvent any problems with absorption and yes piperine has been shown to also increase absorption. Lastly, it has also available encapsulated in lipid solvents (LEF) which would also possibly improve absorption.

    Again, these are only my opinions and I only wanted to add to your thread, not challenge or debate you.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    As for EPA, the amount I posted was only my opinion. I can cite references for why I believe this but dont want to derail the thread too much. Overall nothing is really too conclusive but it is pretty clear there is a relationship between EPA/DHA supplementation and the HPA

    As for curcumin, admittedly the majority of studies are either in vitro or in rats with only a handful of human studies but in my opinion curcumin still shows a great deal of potential. As far as its effects on cancer, yes that is one of the benefits but there is also evidence on its effects on numerous physiological systems with very little evidence pointing to side effects. Again I can cite references but dont wish to derail the thread, only expressing my opinion.

    Now I do agree that curcumin's bioavailability is quite low, but large doses may circumvent any problems with absorption and yes piperine has been shown to also increase absorption. Lastly, it has also available encapsulated in lipid solvents (LEF) which would also possibly improve absorption.

    Again, these are only my opinions and I only wanted to add to your thread, not challenge or debate you.
    Nor I, you. I'm always up for discussion and I won't hesitate to amend my viewpoint if enough evidence is presented in favor of an opposing one. In fact, I was once 100% with you on curcumin but after doing more and more research, I had to change my stance. We can certainly add to this list of 4 basic supplements, and I welcome you to add your own "ingredient, pros, cons, dosing summary, good product options" if you so desire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    I love my ACLAR. I just feel better when on it. Its a staple for me.
    Likewise
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    Great thread my friend
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    We can certainly add to this list of 4 basic supplements, and I welcome you to add your own "ingredient, pros, cons, dosing summary, good product options" if you so desire.
    I will just post PMIDs instead of quoting abstracts

    Curcumin:

    Pros-

    Cancer
    - PMID: 20145189, PMID: 20127174, PMID: 16584595, PMID: 19898931, PMID: 20032896, PMID: 20044614, PMID: 20332461, PMID: 20305684, PMID: 20358476, PMID: 20387230, PMID: 20363232, PMID: 20360934, PMID: 20077433, PMID: 19901561, PMID: 20373902, PMID: 20393484, PMiD: 20057137, PMID: 20360934

    Anti-ROS, Injury, Inflammation, and Inflammation-related Disease - PMID: 19917353, PMID: 20018302, PMID: 20132469, PMID: 20227282, PMID: 16364299, PMID: 20056736, PMID: 20125031, PMID: 20180411, PMID: 20214332, PMID: 19878610, PMID: 20188213, PMID: 19932168, PMID: 20056776, PMID: 20112103, PMID: 20025056, PMID: 20026275, PMID: 20229497, PMID: 20080166, PMID: 16387899, PMID: 19919835, PMID: 20026325

    Stress and Depression - PMID: 19653644, PMID: 18406348, PMID: 17617388, PMID: 17846884, PMID: 17846884, PMID: 17942093, PMID: 18766332, PMID: 17022948, PMID: 19879308

    Insulin, Skeletal Muscle, Fat, and Metabolism - PMID: 20227862, PMID: 20395228, PMID: 20357182, PMID:19093868, PMID: 10444409, PMID: 20205235, PMID: 20222050

    Cons:
    Poor bioavailability
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    From my post on another board...

    I thought I'd lay out a basic supplement stack for anyone who is interested.






    So there you have 4 basic supplements for any user who is seeking to optimize performance and overall health. I will expand on this list in the future, but this is simply the "base" from which you can build up.
    WHAT No Superdrol
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta View Post
    WHAT No Superdrol
    Wow... OP is pretty ignorant huh???

    Superdrol is one of the best overall health supplements out there IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    Wow... OP is pretty ignorant huh???

    Superdrol is one of the best overall health supplements out there IMO
    They're like Flinstone Chewable Vitamins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta View Post
    They're like Flinstone Chewable Vitamins.
    Yeah! Only difference is one can be found on walmart shelves...
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    Nice thread!
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    Def great work here Coop! In before it's the AM-e-letter featured thread of the week
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    Mr. Cooper,

    What are your thoughts on water soluble Vitamin B formulas vs. Coenzyme B formula?I currently do use B-Right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koi1214 View Post
    Mr. Cooper,

    What are your thoughts on water soluble Vitamin B formulas vs. Coenzyme B formula?I currently do use B-Right.
    Hmm I'm assuming you're asking if you should get a co-enzymated form? While it's preferable, def not necessary, and I don't use one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Hmm I'm assuming you're asking if you should get a co-enzymated form? While it's preferable, def not necessary, and I don't use one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Hmm I'm assuming you're asking if you should get a co-enzymated form? While it's preferable, def not necessary, and I don't use one.
    What I was asking is if you think there is really a difference between the two.I know the coenzmye form is better absorbed with food but I really don't think one would notice a big difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    As for EPA, the amount I posted was only my opinion. I can cite references for why I believe this but dont want to derail the thread too much. Overall nothing is really too conclusive but it is pretty clear there is a relationship between EPA/DHA supplementation and the HPA

    As for curcumin, admittedly the majority of studies are either in vitro or in rats with only a handful of human studies but in my opinion curcumin still shows a great deal of potential. As far as its effects on cancer, yes that is one of the benefits but there is also evidence on its effects on numerous physiological systems with very little evidence pointing to side effects. Again I can cite references but dont wish to derail the thread, only expressing my opinion.

    Now I do agree that curcumin's bioavailability is quite low, but large doses may circumvent any problems with absorption and yes piperine has been shown to also increase absorption. Lastly, it has also available encapsulated in lipid solvents (LEF) which would also possibly improve absorption.

    Again, these are only my opinions and I only wanted to add to your thread, not challenge or debate you.

    There is a plethora of human clinical trails with curcumin. "Absorption" is an insignificant variable in its irrelevancy.

    Read the bottom of this post a few more times and maybe it will sink in (or stick around and be schooled):
    How to Construct a Basic Supplement Stack
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    Bump (thanks for having my back recoverbros )
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    Very good thread bro!
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    Great stuff, going to give some input later.
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    Bump for people who are PMing me
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    Great thread here if anyone is looking to start out this is where they should start out. I think AOR puts out the best multivitamin with Controlled Labs coming in a close second. Lately I switched to Genomyx Krill Oil from using Nutraplanets bulk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrepNwa23 View Post
    Great thread here if anyone is looking to start out this is where they should start out. I think AOR puts out the best multivitamin with Controlled Labs coming in a close second. Lately I switched to Genomyx Krill Oil from using Nutraplanets bulk.
    You find Krill better than plain old Fish Oil??
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta
    You find Krill better than plain old Fish Oil??
    Absolutely. I still have some old krillipid laying around, but my supply is down to only a couple bottles. I bought 2 dozen for me and family when I new RPN wasnt gonna be making it anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antihero View Post
    Absolutely. I still have some old krillipid laying around, but my supply is down to only a couple bottles. I bought 2 dozen for me and family when I new RPN wasnt gonna be making it anymore.
    In what way is it better than regular Fish Oil??
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    Just curious because I've been taking fish oil for years now.
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    They are VERY different. Fish oil carries the benefits of epa/dha; krill oil has other benefits associated with astaxanthin and the like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They are VERY different. Fish oil carries the benefits of epa/dha; krill oil has other benefits associated with astaxanthin and the like.
    So would a combination of the 2 be worthwhile??
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    Dear Mr. Cooper

    I see you have not included Superdrol on your list

    Please explain
    I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion." -Muhammad Ali
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta View Post
    So would a combination of the 2 be worthwhile??
    Yes, there is certainly merit in using both. I will be adding to this list shortly. I'd add Krill Oil but it wouldn't be on my next "tier" of staple supplements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    Dear Mr. Cooper

    I see you have not included Superdrol on your list

    Please explain
    5. Superdrol

    Happy?
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