Supplements for Joint-pain?
- 04-05-2012, 05:49 AM
- 04-05-2012, 05:53 AM
- 04-05-2012, 06:05 AM
I hear Glycine (Probably typo) or is it G-L-P-C? or just GLPC is really good for skin rejuvenation and joints specifically at 10g daily?
04-05-2012, 06:09 AM
04-05-2012, 08:25 AM
I second cissus. Its especially good for tendons etc... But I would also supplement with building blocks such as glucosamine, and collagen.
Torn human rotator cuff tendons have reduced collagen thermal properties on differential scanning calorimetry. J Orthop Res. 2011 Dec;29(12):1938-43. doi: 10.1002/jor.21450. Epub 2011 May 11.
And Celadrine seems to be always a good call.
Edit: Just did a short search on collagen and well seems like there is no point in supplementing with collagen... like all other proteins it just gets split up into its amino acids and the body has to reassemble collagen later.
What you can do: Supplement the building blocks necessary to build up collagen and elastin.
lysine, serine, vitamin c
Also Lysine, serine and copper, as well as hyaluronic acid.
Hyaluronic acid is also very poorly absorbed so you can take glucosamie instead, because glucosamine increases its production.
In most cases humans have enough copper, so it may not be needed. So you would end up with:
Cissus -> faster metabolism and recovery, less inflammation
Lysine, serine, vitamin c, glucosamine as building blocks.
And if the pain goes not away from cissus alone, add other supps to end inflammation because before that happens, regeneration will be very slow. Those would be:
Celadrine, devils claw, curcumin, msm.
Edit 2: Or you could supplement hydrolyzed collagen directly(instead of lysine and serine)... I still would add vitamin c and glucosamine though.
04-05-2012, 12:17 PM
I'm happy with what I'm using right now-- Orange TRIad multivitamin (has joint support), Animal Flex, Super Cissus, and 10+grams fish oil
04-05-2012, 12:22 PM
04-05-2012, 12:52 PM
04-05-2012, 02:01 PM
04-05-2012, 03:02 PM
NOW's topical celadrin is also another good option.
I also hear iForce might be coming out with a joint product in the near future
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04-05-2012, 03:21 PM
I hurt my shoulder some months ago and I picked Animal Flex, it's the first time I had to take
a joint sup, I'm half way the tub and pain is almost gone.
Keep in mind that I've been working out exactly in the same way
that I was before the injury (I do NOT recommend that, I'm stubborn)
So for me it works pretty well and it's cost effective, 44 packs, 1 pack a day
04-05-2012, 03:32 PM
I've taken animal flex before and can second that it does work well! I still prefer supercissus though.
04-05-2012, 03:36 PM
I agree, although flex would be my choice. Haven't had the recent success with SC as I would have liked.Originally Posted by ponysteak
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04-05-2012, 03:37 PM
04-05-2012, 04:51 PM
a joint support sup, so I have absolute no experience with any other product in this field, nor single
ingredients like cissus.. I've been supplementing with fish oils forever, and while I can assume that
could help (maybe the pain would have been worse if i didn't) definitely it didn't make it go away.
Animal Flex did.
I also couldn't help about 2 packs vs 1 pack, in bb everyone says the more the better but that's
almost never the case.. 1 pack did it for me I don't see the point in wasting money taking 2, but one can always try.
My opinion is injuries take time to heal, no matter what you take, if you take more, it'll still take time to heal..
04-05-2012, 04:55 PM
I use the liquid msm + glucosamine from sams(a grocery store like cosco).Dosent taste bad and its cheap as hell for 30 or 45 servings.
04-05-2012, 10:27 PM
Thanks guys would it better just to get a
High-dosed Fish-Oil (liquid) yieliding 2000mg EPA / 1000mg DHA each serving
Cissus Quad (powder) 10-15g Training Days (4x a week) - 3-5g Off days (3x a week)
Maybe a topical cream or so like
Jacks Hot Pink or Blue Heat. I was told Hot Pink is stronger than Blue Heat?
I don't think I'll get Glucosamine, MSM, Chond. as studies never shown any effectiveness?
04-06-2012, 06:42 AM
"Why Do People Use Glucosamine?
Glucosamine supplements are widely used for osteoarthritis, particularly knee osteoarthritis. In osteoarthritis, cartilage -- the rubbery material that cushions joints -- becomes stiff and loses its elasticity. This makes the joint prone to damage and may lead to pain, swelling, loss of movement, and further deterioration.
Since the body's natural glucosamine is used to make and repair joint cartilage, taking glucosamine as a nutritional supplement is thought to help repair damaged cartilage by augmenting the body's supply of glucosamine.
There is promising evidence that glucosamine may reduce pain symptoms of knee osteoarthritis and possibly slow the progression of osteoarthritis. For example, a study published in the journal Archives of Internal Medicine examined people with osteoarthritis over three years. Researchers assessed pain and structural improvements seen on x-ray. They gave 202 people with mild to moderate osteoarthritis 1,500 mg of glucosamine sulfate a day or a placebo.
At the end of the study, researchers found that glucosamine slowed the progression of knee osteoarthritis compared to the placebo. People in the glucosamine group had a significant reduction in pain and stiffness. On x-ray, there was no average change or narrowing of joint spaces in the knees (a sign of deterioration) of the glucosamine group. In contrast, joint spaces of participants taking the placebo narrowed over the three years.
One of the largest studies on glucosamine for osteoarthritis was a 6-month study sponsored by the National Institutes of Health. Called GAIT, the study compared the effectiveness of glucosamine hydrochloride (HCL), chondroitin sulfate, a combination of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, the drug celecoxib (Celebrex), or a placebo in people with knee osteoarthritis.
Glucosamine or chondroitin alone or in combination didn't reduce pain in the overall group, although people in the study with moderate-to-severe knee pain were more likely to respond to glucosamine.
One major drawback of the GAIT Trial was that glucosamine hydrochloride was used rather than the more widely used and researched glucosamine sulfate. A recent analysis of previous studies, including the GAIT Trial, concluded that glucosamine hydrochloride was not effective. The analysis also found that studies on glucosamine sulfate were too different from one another and were not as well-designed as they should be, so they could not properly draw a conclusion. More research is needed.
Still, health care providers often suggest a three month trial of glucosamine and discontinuing it if there is no improvement after three months. A typical dose for osteoarthritis is 1,500 mg of glucosamine sulfate each day. "
Cushions your joint's.It has plenty of studies.As for msm...
"Efficacy of methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) in osteoarthritis pain of the knee: a pilot clinical trial.
Kim LS, Axelrod LJ, Howard P, Buratovich N, Waters RF.
Southwest College Research Institute, Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine and Health Sciences, Tempe, AZ 85282, USA. email@example.com
Osteoarthritis (OA) is the most common form of arthritis and the second most common cause of long-term disability among middle-aged and older adults in the United States. Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) is a popular dietary supplement used as a single agent and in combination with other nutrients, and purported to be beneficial for arthritis. However, there is paucity of evidence to support the use of MSM.
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted. Fifty men and women, 40-76 years of age with knee OA pain were enrolled in an outpatient medical center. Intervention was MSM 3g or placebo twice a day for 12 weeks (6g/day total). Outcomes included the Western Ontario and McMaster University Osteoarthritis Index visual analogue scale (WOMAC), patient and physician global assessments (disease status, response to therapy), and SF-36 (overall health-related quality of life).
Compared to placebo, MSM produced significant decreases in WOMAC pain and physical function impairment (P<0.05). No notable changes were found in WOMAC stiffness and aggregated total symptoms scores. MSM also produced improvement in performing activities of daily living when compared to placebo on the SF-36 evaluation (P<0.05).
MSM (3g twice a day) improved symptoms of pain and physical function during the short intervention without major adverse events. The benefits and safety of MSM in managing OA and long-term use cannot be confirmed from this pilot trial, but its potential clinical application is examined. Underlying mechanisms of action and need for further investigation of MSM are discussed."
Shown in this study to relieve joint pain.chond has very little information as a stand alone.It is usually paired with Glucosamine and they seem to work synergistic.
Note on these studys:I would like to see some done with sports/weight lifting but you shouldn't discredit these.Most joint related supplements are based off of these kinds of studys because they treat osteoporosis and/or arthritis which can be far more painful on our joints than a tweaked shoulder.To save you some googling....Osteoporosis is the thinning of bone tissue and loss of bone density over time. Arthritis is inflammation of one or more joints. A joint is the area where two bones meet. There are over 100 different types of arthritis.
Hope I helped to clear some info up.
04-06-2012, 08:45 AM
04-06-2012, 08:48 AM
04-06-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm asking because in the past two weeks I got slightly pissed at my body comp,
and I'm trying to figure out why, I'm going thru the possible causes one at the time
(sodium vs water intake, estrogen rebound from stopping the clomid, fats intake during the week,
refeed size, etc..) but I haven't considered this because I had no idea
04-06-2012, 12:40 PM
^ that is interesting and never knew that before either.
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04-06-2012, 12:48 PM
04-06-2012, 01:47 PM
04-06-2012, 08:41 PM
04-07-2012, 12:14 AM
04-07-2012, 12:22 AM
04-08-2012, 12:51 PM
Osteoarthritis Cartilage. 2011 Apr;19(4):375-80. Epub 2011 Jan 18.
The effect of glucosamine on glucose metabolism in humans: a systematic review of the literature.
Dostrovsky NR, Towheed TE, Hudson RW, Anastassiades TP.
Department of Internal Medicine, Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada.
Glucosamine is commonly used for the treatment of osteoarthritis. It is available as an over the counter preparation and also as a prescription pharmaceutical. There is concern from animal experiments that glucosamine may alter glucose metabolism through the hexosamine biosynthetic pathway. The objective of this systematic review is to determine if exogenous glucosamine adversely affects glucose metabolism in humans. This review does not separate out the effects on glucose metabolism of the various glucosamine preparations.
An English-language literature search of MEDLINE, EMBASE and EBM Reviews (1950-February 2009) was conducted. The bibliographies of selected papers were manually searched for additional references. Two reviewers independently analyzed studies for quality and content using a standardized data extraction form.
Eleven studies were included. Six studies were randomized controlled trials and the remaining five were prospective studies with or without controls. Four of the studies found decreased insulin sensitivity or increased fasting glucose in subjects taking glucosamine. Three of these were clinical studies using oral glucosamine. Studies that included subjects with baseline impaired glucose tolerance or insulin resistance were more likely to detect an effect on glucose metabolism than studies without such subjects.
Clinical studies, including three using oral glucosamine, have provided mixed evidence about the effect of exogenous glucosamine on glucose metabolism in humans. Therefore, more studies are needed, particularly including subjects at high risk for impairments in glucose homeostasis, before a definite conclusion can be made.
Copyright © 2011 Osteoarthritis Research Society International. Published by Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.
PMID: 21251987 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
04-08-2012, 01:20 PM
I gave the full-text a brief read-over. There isn't sufficient data on the long-term effects (for those who use it, say, for years), but here are some tidbits:
"The majority of the studies included obese subjects"
"Four out of the 11 studies reported a significant effect on glucose metabolism"
"Of these four ‘positive’ studies, two included subjects with baseline impaired glucose tolerance or insulin resistance (Fig. 2)  and . Neither of the two studies on diabetic subjects detected a statistically significant effect on glucose metabolism  and . Three of the seven studies that included obese subjects found an effect on glucose metabolism"
"As shown in Fig. 2, studies that included subjects with impaired glucose tolerance or insulin resistance were more likely to detect an effect on glucose metabolism than studies without those subjects."
-More research is needed on long-term effects
-It appears that glucosamine MAY increase insulin resistance if you are already obese/diabetic. Effects in healthy humans seem less convincing.
04-08-2012, 06:03 PM
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