Smart Drugs: safe and effective? Maybe not...

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    Smart Drugs: safe and effective? Maybe not...


    Here's something right from the FDA:

    Using Smart' Drugs and Drinks May Not Be Smart
    by Victor Lambert

    Ever since the days when snake oil salesmen crisscrossed the American frontier
    peddling miracle potions, unwitting consumers searching for a magic bullet have eagerly
    spent hard-earned cash on unproven drugs and useless concoctions.
    During the early 1900s, many believed that "William Radam's Microbe Killer,"
    which was 99 percent water, would cure all diseases. In the 1950s, hundreds of men and
    women suffering from various types of cancer turned to a horse-blood extract as the
    cure. And, most recently, thousands of young professionals have begun using so-called
    "smart" drugs and "smart" drinks as a way to increase energy, improve memory, and boost
    intelligence.
    Some "smart" drugs are prescription medications approved to treat debilitating
    mental disorders, such as dementia and Parkinson's disease. Among the more popular
    are Hydergine (ergoloid mesylates), Eldepryl (selegiline hydrochloride), Dilantin
    (phenytoin), and Diapid (vasopressin).
    Other "smart" drugs are medications not approved in the United States. These
    include piracetam (Nootropil), aniracetam (Draganon), fipexide (Attentil), vinpocetine
    (Cavinton), and Oxicebral (vincamine).
    "Smart" drinks are made with amino acids, such as phenylalanine, choline, L-
    cysteine, and taurine, which are blended into juices and other nonalcoholic beverages.
    But, like cure-alls of the past, no scientific evidence exists to show that "smart"
    drugs and "smart" drinks work, and FDA has not approved any drug or product to
    enhance memory or intelligence.
    "The notion that "smart" drugs affect intellect is based on the belief that drugs
    designed to treat people suffering from dementia and other conditions that affect the
    mind can make normal people sharper," said Thomas Crook, Ph.D., a researcher with
    Memory Assessment Clinics, Inc., of Bethesda, Md. "But there is not scientific proof to
    back up this theory."
    Crook, who headed the National Institute of Mental Health's geriatric
    psychopharmacology program from 1971 to 1985, said that no human studies objectively
    show that "smart" drugs can enhance the mental performance of normal individuals. No
    credible studies measuring subtle changes in normal individuals after taking "smart" drugs
    for a long period have been conducted.
    "The research data I've seen was not based on well-controlled studies in which a
    'smart' drug and a placebo were compared, and in which there was an objective measure
    of how successful the drug was, such as having to remember someone's name," Crook
    said.
    "The clinical evidence relied on animal models, but animals and humans may not
    react the same. Individual people are different, too. A 25-year-old stockbroker won't
    react to certain stimuli in the same way that an older person would."

    Safety Concerns
    While efficacy of "smart" drugs is unproven, side effects associated with their use
    are well documented. Piracetam and Hydergine can cause insomnia, nausea and other
    gastrointestinal distress, and headaches.
    Adverse reactions associated with Diapid include runny nose, nasal ulceration,
    abdominal cramps, and increased bowel movements.
    Vincamine should not be used by pregnant women or children because it can
    cause gastrointestinal distress.
    Although most of the known side effects are short-term, health professionals fear
    that the possibility of long-term side effects also exists.
    "We just don't know what adverse effects there could be later," said James L.
    McGaugh, Ph.D., director of the Center for the Neurobiology of Learning and Memory,
    University of California-Irvine. "There haven't been enough studies conducted over a
    long period of time."
    Further complicating the safety issue is the megadoses and different combinations
    of "smart" drugs users claim are needed to achieve the desired effects.
    The effect of piracetam, according to "smart" drug enthusiasts, can be increased if
    taken in combination with Hydergine. Aniracetam, they say, works best if taken with
    choline. And no combination will work, say "smart" drug users, unless taken over an
    extended period.
    "Based on theoretical evidence, you'd have to keep taking them to maintain the
    effect," said Crook. "When taken in combination over time, we don't know that they're
    safe."
    "Smart" drinks, while consisting of amino acids, present similar safety concerns. If
    the drink contains a large dose of a substance or if many drinks are consumed, toxicity
    and short-term adverse side effects are possible, although small doses may also be toxic.
    A recent report on amino acids prepared by the Federation of American Societies
    for Experimental Biology concluded that even healthy men who take single or
    incomplete mixtures of amino acids as dietary supplements are engaging in a potentially
    harmful practice. According to the report, other groups taking these supplements are at
    an even greater risk of possible adverse effects and should not use them without
    responsible medical supervision.
    In large doses, phenylalanine may make some people irritable or cause insomnia.
    In addition, this amino acid should be avoided by people with phenylketonuria (PKU), a
    birth defect caused by the body's inability to metabolize phenylalanine. (Diet products
    made with aspartame [NutraSweet] contain phenylalanine at low, safe levels for people
    who don't have PKU and must bear labels warning people with PKU of the presence of
    this amino acid.)
    Too much dietary choline can cause gastroenteritis and pancreatitis.
    L-cysteine should not be used by children or pregnant women because it could
    possibly harm the fetus, and published studies show that taurine causes adverse effects in
    PKU patients, individuals with Wilson's disease--a potentially fatal genetic disorder
    caused by the body's inability to metabolize dietary copper--and persons taking MAO
    (monoamine oxidase) inhibitors, such as the antidepressants Parnate, Nardil, Marplan,
    and Eutonyl.
    Despite these known side effects, the "smart" drink faithful insist there is no
    danger.
    "I don't believe the drinks have anything in them that will give me Alzheimer's
    when I'm 50," said Michelle Barnett, a 28-year-old San Francisco marketing specialist
    who has been consuming "smart" drinks for a year and a half. "The traffic outside my
    window is worse. The water is bad, and our food chain is bad. I think that if I drink
    amino acids it's positive, not negative."
    McGaugh disagrees. "You can view these things as mind toys," McGaugh said.
    "People have responded to unsubstantiated claims."

    The Rise in "Smart" Drug Use
    "Smart" drugs began to gain popularity in the early '80s, when baby boomers in
    their 30s and 40s started using them as a way to improve job performance and gain an
    edge in the workplace.
    There is no way to accurately calculate the number of people using "smart" drugs
    today, but Ward Dean, M.D., coauthor of Smart Drugs & Nutrients, the guide for users,
    estimated that the number is close to 100,000. "Smart" drink users, Dean said, number
    about 10,000, with many occasionally using "smart" drugs.
    Another group of "smart" drug users is made up of healthy elderly persons who,
    even though they may not have age-associated memory impairment, feel they aren't as
    mentally sharp as they used to be, Dean said.
    People with documented intellect impairments caused by Alzheimer's disease and
    stroke form the smallest population of "smart" drug users.
    According to Dean, "smart" drugs cost about 85 cents a day to use. "Smart" drinks,
    served mostly in trendy California and New York bars, cost about $3 each.

    Are "Smart" Drinks and Drugs Legal?
    Because "smart" drinks are made with amino acids, which FDA regulates as foods,
    they are legal as long as they're not labeled with health claims. Under the Federal Food,
    Drug, and Cosmetic Act, any product that makes medical claims is considered a drug
    and must be proven safe and effective. (Under the Nutrition Labeling and Education Act
    of 1990, certain health claims are permitted on foods; however, there is no approved
    health claim applicable to "smart" drinks.)
    Laws affecting "smart" drugs are less complicated. The promotion or sale of drugs
    for purposes not approved in the United States is illegal.
    Unapproved medications used as "smart" drugs typically make their way into the
    United States through an abuse of FDA's "personal use" import policy.
    FDA permits individuals to bring into this country small amounts of drugs for
    "personal use" when the drugs are sold in foreign countries but not in the United States.
    However, the drugs must not pose any unreasonable health risks, and must be used to
    treat a serious condition for which there is no approved treatment here. Permissible
    personal-use quantities generally do not exceed a three-month supply.
    But some individuals have illegally used the "personal use" import policy for
    commercial gain.
    "Once they have the 'smart' drugs in this country, some sell and distribute them
    for unapproved purposes," said Phillip L.B. Halpern, assistant U.S. attorney, Office of the
    U.S. Attorney, Southern District of California, San Diego.

    More Research Needed
    While not endorsing the illegal use of drugs, some health professionals believe
    that more research into the efficacy of "smart" drugs should be conducted.
    Thomas N. Chase, M.D., chief of the Experimental Therapeutics Branch of the
    National Institutes of Health, said that "smart" drugs need to be looked at more
    carefully.
    "We should take some of these claims seriously enough to evaluate them. Some
    people feel that there is a conspiracy on the part of the federal government and FDA to
    withhold certain drugs. This drives them into the hands of entrepreneurs that make
    promises."
    "We're early into this thing," said a 40-year-old writer, who takes a combination of
    piracetam, Hydergine, L-deprenyl, vincamine, and assorted vitamins. "In ten years,
    everybody over 35 is going to stop and ask themselves the question, 'Do I want to
    continue getting old? Do I want my brain to age?'"
    And what about the side effects? "There could be long-term side effects," said the
    writer, who says he's taken "smart" drugs since 1983, "but you would think that after so
    many years of people taking them some would have popped up."
    Looking at "smart" drugs in such simplistic terms, however, can do more harm
    than good, said Crook. "You're dealing with balance systems in the brain. Any drug that
    has the ability to enhance cognition can also impair it."
    McGaugh went a step further, warning that no one should spend money for a
    drug that has not been proven safe or effective.
    "People are buying hope," McGaugh said. "They are skeptical about scientific
    claims and they say, 'you guys [the medical community] don't know.' But there simply
    isn't enough evidence."
    FDA maintains that because "smart" drugs have not been subjected to adequate
    animal and human testing in controlled clinical trials, and have not been proven effective
    or their toxicity defined, they could be harmful. Strategies for regulating dietary
    supplements, including amino acids and other nutrients, are currently being evaluated by
    an FDA task force.
    FDA is also working closely with state attorneys general and other state
    authorities to prevent the illegal sale and distribution of "smart" drugs. n

    Victor Lambert is a staff writer for FDA Consumer.

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    My experience w/ smart drugs has been negative, overall.

    I took the latest imports & neurotransmitter substrates for years; can't say it increased my intelligence meaningfully. On the contrary, they mostly produced a dry, obsessively linear, short-sighted detail-obsession that drove me nuts. The people I've known & dealt with who were really into smart-drugs either got over it or lost what social skills (and friends) they'd had.

    All I keep up with is deprenyl...that's a genuine improvement.
    Last edited by BodyWizard; 09-30-2004 at 12:25 PM.
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    Whether smart drugs are the real deal or not, I still think that article is complete ****. Reminds me of articles about the "dangers" of steroid use...only to a lesser degree.

    There havent been enough studies on piracatem? They have been studying it since the 60's and if you hit up pubmed, you'll be swamped with human AND animal studies. The whole...more studes needed is a copout. They've said the same damn thing about creatine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    All I keep up with is deprenyl...that's a genuine improvement.
    I have looked inot deprenyl off and on now for quite a while. Could you briefly describe your subjective effects and if you noticed any rise in blood pressure / cns stimulation?

    Thanks
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    Max - never noticed a rise in blood pressure from it (YMMV).
    CNS effects are indirect & well-integrated - ie, never any of the jangly, full-tilt, bugs-in-the-teeth sensations I've associated w/ most CNS stimulants (which, technically, deprenyl is not - it's an anti-depressant that (IIRC - been a long time since I read up on it) retards the breakdown of dopamine).

    'Course, I always use it on a low-dose scheme (1 tab or 1/2 tab once a day, for 2.5-5 mg)...effects manifest over the course of 2-3 weeks, which is much too slow for the hot-heads. I'd be very reluctant to try using as a stimulant - talk about self-abuse!
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    "we're trying to"fix" the hardware, when the solutions usually lie in the software."

    Well said.

    Exactly, the question at the root of this issue is how much intelligence is based on raw neurology and how much is based on how you wire together what you have. A good place to turn as far as research is people who have suffered massive head injuries, or had their corpus collosum severed. It's very interesting that even in the face of significant brain mass loss, these people are able to "re-wire" and regain way more function than ever thought possible. By extension, we ask how much is "identity" and "persona" based on raw neurology.

    Let me say this; there is only one way to "reprogram" a brain to learn a new skill--that is through consistent training and application of willpower. Let's use the example of music, since I'm a music instructor. Show me any drug that accomplishes what an hour a day of practice accomplishes--practicing an instrument costs nothing and is proven to work. Taking a nootropic?

    I think the only drugs that improve your performance on tests and such are amphetamines. As far as making you SMARTER...I only think they improve reaction time...perhaps give you more confidence, which might help with some things.

    Hey--anyone want to buy my leftover Aniracetam? I have a bunch!
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    I agree with you Brodus, nootropics can only do so much, by uhe means of maybe more alertness, focus, and possibly memory. You still have to put the "data" in there by means of study or practice and make it applicable, no substance can do that for you...
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    "We just don't know what adverse effects there could be later," said James L.
    McGaugh, Ph.D., director of the Center for the"Neurobiology of Learning and Memory,
    University of California-Irvine. "There haven't been enough studies conducted over a
    long period of time."

    That statement though true is also true of just about everything we consume..foods, vitamins, cosmetics yadda yadda so in that sense it is a cop out of sorts.

    Supps like these are tools. A tool won't build your house or fix your car FOR you. As Brodus said it's up to you to do the rewiring but IMO some of these substances can facilitate the process. They certainly won't make you smarter only sheer willpower can do that and like it or not we're pretty much stuck with the same IQ after age 25 or so. There are however no tests to quantify wisdom.

    All that said Noots like ALCAR have helped to change my life for the better in numerous subtle ways. A short course of Piracetam helped me lick a life long attention deficit habit/problem. Vinpocetine/Huperizine A helps me alleviate S.A.D. but in the end it's my own drive to help me help myself that does the real work.

    The other prescript only meds they listed i have no experience with and they don't sound like a good idea. Most of the others I use have little to no side effects that I've experienced.
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    Similar to our position on anabolics, yes?

    Without the work, etc., they don't do much.

    Do you think the nootropics can improve memory in people that don't already have memory problems? I know they didn't do that for me, but I'm curious what other people have to say.

    A little off topic, but I have a theory about situational specific memory, and it's connected with drug use. Back in college I smoked a lot of weed, and I have long since given it up, but on very rare occasions I might hit a joint at a party. When I do, I can remeber situations from my "stoner" days that I never remember when I'm sober.

    It's almost like your brain creates a file cabinet and it can only be unlocked with the right key.

    Maybe nootropics function as the "key" for people with Parkinsons, etc.

    I'm still not convinced that they make normal people smarter, though. Otherwise, by now you'd think we'd have seen more super geniuses...or read more stories about some guy who became a massive success in business overnight b/c he developed photographic memory from using nootropics...or...well, you get the point!
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    That's awesome, Bioman--glad you were able to get such good use from them, and DIDN'T HAVE TO RELY ON PHARMA SCRIPTS!!

    I was hoping I could lick a few bad habits, too, but nope!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    Max - never noticed a rise in blood pressure from it (YMMV).
    CNS effects are indirect & well-integrated - ie, never any of the jangly, full-tilt, bugs-in-the-teeth sensations I've associated w/ most CNS stimulants (which, technically, deprenyl is not - it's an anti-depressant that (IIRC - been a long time since I read up on it) retards the breakdown of dopamine).

    'Course, I always use it on a low-dose scheme (1 tab or 1/2 tab once a day, for 2.5-5 mg)...effects manifest over the course of 2-3 weeks, which is much too slow for the hot-heads. I'd be very reluctant to try using as a stimulant - talk about self-abuse!
    thanks, another reason deprenyl is of interest to me is its supposed lack of weight gain (ie, paxil, lexapro, celexa, etc....) that I noticed on others. I felt great on Paxil CR, but inherited another 'anxiety' or 'stress' from the weight gain, as I am a certifiable member of the Adonis Compex Club .......so I discontinued use. Also, any good suggestions on places to find deprenyl? I must say that I am liking this board, as I am new, but a regular on avant's and a mod over at Mike's site (1fast400)
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    I firmly believe the only drug that can "re-wire" your software is LSD. But that has it's own host of demons. Seriously, though, based on strength, minimal toxicity, and insane effects, it blows everything else out of the water. A pinhead dose will take you to Mars via the rings of Saturn on your return trip from the center of the Universe. Its a Semi truck at 90mph that makes every other drug on the planet seem like a tricycle.

    Taking LSD and engaging in a session of serious self-analysis and discovery can help a person beat addictions, OCD, and other psychoses faster than anything. It was originally used for this, and showed extreme promise in treating alcoholism, among other things.

    But the psychoses is can preciptates can be chronic and debilitating...everything has it's price. I'm not the same person I was before I did it. Not by a long shot. But I'd guarantee my "hardware" looks the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodus
    I firmly believe the only drug that can "re-wire" your software is LSD. But that has it's own host of demons. Seriously, though, based on strength, minimal toxicity, and insane effects, it blows everything else out of the water. A pinhead dose will take you to Mars via the rings of Saturn on your return trip from the center of the Universe. Its a Semi truck at 90mph that makes every other drug on the planet seem like a tricycle.

    Taking LSD and engaging in a session of serious self-analysis and discovery can help a person beat addictions, OCD, and other psychoses faster than anything. It was originally used for this, and showed extreme promise in treating alcoholism, among other things.

    But the psychoses is can preciptates can be chronic and debilitating...everything has it's price. I'm not the same person I was before I did it. Not by a long shot. But I'd guarantee my "hardware" looks the same.
    Sounds like you've been hanging out with your Swami again

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    Haha...yep, he comes prepackaged on little pieces of paper...

    No, just reflecting on "smart" drugs, the hardware/software thing, the neurology/psychology dichotomy, identity theory...okay, now I'm sounding like a swami. I told you LSD changes you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodus
    Haha...yep, he comes prepackaged on little pieces of paper...

    No, just reflecting on "smart" drugs, the hardware/software thing, the neurology/psychology dichotomy, identity theory...okay, now I'm sounding like a swami. I told you LSD changes you!

    yeah...it made you look like Johnny Depp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodus
    Similar to our position on anabolics, yes?

    Without the work, etc., they don't do much.

    Do you think the nootropics can improve memory in people that don't already have memory problems? I know they didn't do that for me, but I'm curious what other people have to say.

    A little off topic, but I have a theory about situational specific memory, and it's connected with drug use. Back in college I smoked a lot of weed, and I have long since given it up, but on very rare occasions I might hit a joint at a party. When I do, I can remeber situations from my "stoner" days that I never remember when I'm sober.

    It's almost like your brain creates a file cabinet and it can only be unlocked with the right key.

    Maybe nootropics function as the "key" for people with Parkinsons, etc.

    I'm still not convinced that they make normal people smarter, though. Otherwise, by now you'd think we'd have seen more super geniuses...or read more stories about some guy who became a massive success in business overnight b/c he developed photographic memory from using nootropics...or...well, you get the point!

    I don't think noots enhance memory so much as they subtley make the brain more efficient or simply give it more energy. Small things I've noticed from ALCAR, vin and Piracetam are an increase in typing speed and effeciency(ie fewer mistakes), a very tiny increase in short term memory, the ability to write better and faster and just be in a generally better mood-which in and of itself is worthwhile for me.

    I won't claim these compounds have cured my seasonal depression but they have helped alleviate the symptoms so that I can be more functional. My mother is on Zoloft and I fear I may have to be as well as the symptoms seem to get worse each winter. I'm going to trial some PS and maybe some 5HTP this winter and see if that helps. I'll be going on cycle during the holidays and that will certainly help. Extra test makes me feel great..but alas this is not an avenue I want to go down for my entire life.

    So no, I don't think they make one smarter at all but they may just help a brain that is lagging along for some physical reason(low acetylcholine, insufficient vascularization etc) to run a bit more efficiently. There are times when I stack just the right amounts that I swear I'm a new man but unfortunately the effect is short lived.

    Your file cabinet and key observation has been verified by psychologists with alcoholics and other substance abusers so I'm sure it could be true for noots etc.
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    I firmly believe the only drug that can "re-wire" your software is LSD. But that has it's own host of demons. Seriously, though, based on strength, minimal toxicity, and insane effects, it blows everything else out of the water. A pinhead dose will take you to Mars via the rings of Saturn on your return trip from the center of the Universe. Its a Semi truck at 90mph that makes every other drug on the planet seem like a tricycle.
    Ha, well spoken Brodus. I have to agree - powerful psycoactives like LSD can blow your perception of reality through the stratosphere. Definately making permanent changes to 'the software'.

    An upgrade to a better version of that software, hopefully.
    BV
  

  
 

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