Fasted cardio with or without protein?

[Jonbero]

I do fasted cardio almost every morning and I take ~45 grams of protein before and sip on bcaa's during workout. Does the protein counter the fat loss benefits of fasted cardio? Would 20 grams of protein or sipping bcaa's during workout help against losing muscle mass from doing cardio on an empty stomach?

 

[hvactech]

well 45g of pro is 180 cals so its not fasted at that point...bcaa consumption is fine solo for fasted cardio

 

[Jonbero]

Yea I thought maybe I should cut it down to 20, or maybe without protein and just bcaa's?

 

[Clemenza]

I prefer just doing BCAA's. Then Protein immediately after.

 

[cr8tine]

Yea I thought maybe I should cut it down to 20, or maybe without protein and just bcaa's?

Whatever you do, at your fasted state you have to consume less than 50 cals from what I read.

 

[hvactech]

I prefer just doing BCAA's. Then Protein immediately after.

i prefer this as well....ive trained fasted for a long time now and have only used amino's pre/intra/post...just recently added protein post after my last amino consumption

 

[mr.cooper69]

There is no benefit from fed vs fasted cardio (unless you're using yohimbine).

 

[0071982WC]

There is no benefit from fed vs fasted cardio (unless you're using yohimbine).

Please post a reputable yohimbe supp bro.

 

[0071982WC]

Preff one without buffers or fillers.... Thanks.

 

[StangBanger]

hahaha.... fasted cardio but your not doing fasted cardio... hahahaha....

Im going to take this supplement on an empty stomach right now, but hold on I have to eat this sandwich first.

 

[0071982WC]

hahaha.... fasted cardio but your not doing fasted cardio... hahahaha....

Im going to take this supplement on an empty stomach right now, but hold on I have to eat this sandwich first.

Who are you addressing?

 

[StangBanger]

Who are you addressing?

obviously the OP

 

[Rodja]

Preff one without buffers or fillers.... Thanks.

There's going to be some filler in the capsule because of the small dose of yohimbine.

 

[0071982WC]

There's going to be some filler in the capsule because of the small dose of yohimbine.

True just trying to back away from certain dyes and preservatives......

 

[Geoforce]

There is no benefit from fed vs fasted cardio (unless you're using yohimbine).

Pretty much this, but lol at the "what should I eat before fasted cardio" type thinking that prevails nowdays

 

[Jonbero]

Pretty much this, but lol at the "what should I eat before fasted cardio" type thinking that prevails nowdays

I'm just terrified of the thought that I will burn my muscles while doing fasted cardio

There is no benefit from fed vs fasted cardio (unless you're using yohimbine).

Are you sure?

This is from T Nation

Pro #1: Morning cardio could potentially increase the amount of free fatty acids (FFA) used up as fuel. This is not due to performing cardio in a glycogen depleted state though, since this isn't happening here. Unless you go to sleep in an already depleted state, you won't wake up in such a state.

During sleep almost 100% of the energy expended comes from fatty acids because of the extremely low intensity of the activity and because of the natural hGH burst which occurs 30 minutes or so after you enter the deep sleep phase (hGH increases fatty acid mobilization).

So you really aren't depleting your intramuscular glycogen stores during the night. You might be tapping your hepatic glycogen stores slightly, but even then that can't account for much since at best this contains maybe 200-300kcals of stored energy. So it's a fallacy to believe that when you wake up your muscles are emptied of their glycogen.

However, since fat is the primary energy source during your sleeping period, chances are that upon waking you have a greater amount of free fatty acids available. Since you don't have to mobilize them (they're already freed up) they become easier to oxidize for fuel and are thus more readily used up during morning cardio.

Pro #2: Fasted morning cardio could also potentially be glycogen-sparing for the same reason as stated above: the greater availability of FFAs reduces the reliance of glycogen for fuel during low-intensity energy systems work.

Pro #3: Fasted morning cardio could lead to an improved fatty acid mobilization during exercise and increase insulin sensitivity afterwards. This might be true of exercise at a low level of intensity (50-75% of max VO2) since this decreases insulin levels via the stimulation of adrenergic receptors. A lower insulin level can increase fatty acid mobilization.

I notice the word could many times so I assume there is no solid evidence to back this up but could there be any truth to this?

 

[StangBanger]

burn my muscles??? oh man this is getting good.. .time to pop the popcorn and watch this train wreck.

 

[ponysteak]

You can go 2-3 days with minimal nutrition before you go catabolic, don't worry about that...fasted training is the tits.

 

[JudoJosh]

True just trying to back away from certain dyes and preservatives......

Why not just get powder and parachute

 

[0071982WC]

Why not just get powder and parachute

Yeah, prob my best option....

 

[0071982WC]

Yeah, prob my best option....

Can you recommend a reputable source of bulk raulowscine? I'm sure I spelled that wrong!

 

[Whacked]

Why are people giving the OP Jonbero such a hard time?

This question he asked is one of the most argued ons in our community.

C'mon peeps, give the guy a break. Let's not turn this board in BB.com

That said, I would love to hear a civil, educated discussion and meeting of the gifted minds on this one.

Until this day, I am still not convinced on any of the sides as ALL of them have a reasonable amount of logic to back them; beyond just bro-logic.

For what it's worth, I use 10 grams BCAA's pre-cardio b/c I am also terrifed of catabolizing hard earned muscle tissue.

 

[Whacked]

Rauwolscine powder is going to be tough to find buddy

Maybe email a bulk supplier to see if they can sell you some?

I just checked 2 sites - nada.

Can you recommend a reputable source of bulk raulowscine? I'm sure I spelled that wrong!

 

[0071982WC]

Rauwolscine powder is going to be tough to find buddy

Maybe email a bulk supplier to see if they can sell you some?

I just checked 2 sites - nada.

Damn, thanks for the feedback bro! I'll see what I can find.....

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm just terrified of the thought that I will burn my muscles while doing fasted cardio



Are you sure?

This is from T Nation

Pro #1: Morning cardio could potentially increase the amount of free fatty acids (FFA) used up as fuel. This is not due to performing cardio in a glycogen depleted state though, since this isn't happening here. Unless you go to sleep in an already depleted state, you won't wake up in such a state.

During sleep almost 100% of the energy expended comes from fatty acids because of the extremely low intensity of the activity and because of the natural hGH burst which occurs 30 minutes or so after you enter the deep sleep phase (hGH increases fatty acid mobilization).

So you really aren't depleting your intramuscular glycogen stores during the night. You might be tapping your hepatic glycogen stores slightly, but even then that can't account for much since at best this contains maybe 200-300kcals of stored energy. So it's a fallacy to believe that when you wake up your muscles are emptied of their glycogen.

However, since fat is the primary energy source during your sleeping period, chances are that upon waking you have a greater amount of free fatty acids available. Since you don't have to mobilize them (they're already freed up) they become easier to oxidize for fuel and are thus more readily used up during morning cardio.

Pro #2: Fasted morning cardio could also potentially be glycogen-sparing for the same reason as stated above: the greater availability of FFAs reduces the reliance of glycogen for fuel during low-intensity energy systems work.

Pro #3: Fasted morning cardio could lead to an improved fatty acid mobilization during exercise and increase insulin sensitivity afterwards. This might be true of exercise at a low level of intensity (50-75% of max VO2) since this decreases insulin levels via the stimulation of adrenergic receptors. A lower insulin level can increase fatty acid mobilization.

I notice the word could many times so I assume there is no solid evidence to back this up but could there be any truth to this?

#1 "could potentially increase" - not does increase or will increase, maybe coulda sometimes increase.
#2 - "could also potentially" - same as above, but even funnier really. If you think just for a moment. accepted amount of max fat loss in a week is say 2lbs for a 200lber. thats 7000 calories worth (this is all ballpark) in 7 days, or 1000 calories worth a day of FFA mobilization. you get maybe 50 calories per hour of FFA mobilization.... so sure, do enough cardio to just burn 50 calories in an hour and even if you double it, 100 calories in an hour. still meaningless. Do an hour worth of even steady state low intensity and at least 200 calories come from elsewhere.
#3 "could lead to" and "this might be true". But doesn't state how. even if you double the fatty acid mobilization (as above) its not enough to make a dent.

then look at the flipside. If you can perform better, faster, longer doing fed cardio and your total calories for the day is the same, guess in which scenario you'll lose more fat?

 

[hvactech]

Damn, thanks for the feedback bro! I'll see what I can find.....

alphaburn is what id recommend.....

 

[hvactech]

There is no benefit from fed vs fasted cardio (unless you're using yohimbine).

my flex magazine says otherwise...

 

[Rodja]

my flex magazine says otherwise...

Flex is always my go-to source for cutting edge training information.

 

[JudoJosh]

Can you recommend a reputable source of bulk raulowscine? I'm sure I spelled that wrong!

Alpha burn (only other ingredient is black pepper) unless you just want bulk yohimbine

 

[EasyEJL]

my flex magazine says otherwise...

Who needs science if you've got flex magazine?

 

[hvactech]

alphaburn is what id recommend.....

beat ya to it

 

[bpmartyr]

Was doing my cardio in the AM fasted (no BCAA) and getting the recomp results hoped for. Switched up to doing cardio in the late afternoon non fasted while keeping everything else the same and guess what? ... getting the exact same recomp results as with fasted.

 

[0071982WC]

Train and run fasted year round and stay sub 7 percent bf....... Not saying its the only way but it works well for me.

 

[Jonbero]

#1 "could potentially increase" - not does increase or will increase, maybe coulda sometimes increase.
#2 - "could also potentially" - same as above, but even funnier really. If you think just for a moment. accepted amount of max fat loss in a week is say 2lbs for a 200lber. thats 7000 calories worth (this is all ballpark) in 7 days, or 1000 calories worth a day of FFA mobilization. you get maybe 50 calories per hour of FFA mobilization.... so sure, do enough cardio to just burn 50 calories in an hour and even if you double it, 100 calories in an hour. still meaningless. Do an hour worth of even steady state low intensity and at least 200 calories come from elsewhere.
#3 "could lead to" and "this might be true". But doesn't state how. even if you double the fatty acid mobilization (as above) its not enough to make a dent.

then look at the flipside. If you can perform better, faster, longer doing fed cardio and your total calories for the day is the same, guess in which scenario you'll lose more fat?

Yes notice what I wrote under the article, it does sound like just bro science but I just wanted to know if there might be any truth to this and if its worth trying out.

I did try cardio today without the protein, I drank 5 grams of USPLabs modern bcaa's before my 30 minute steady state cardio session and 5 grams during. I didn't notice any change in performance compared to yesterday when I took 45 grams of protein and 10 grams of modern bcaa during workout.

 

[hvactech]

its preference really, i feel better when i train fasted plus i workout early in the am and dont care to eat that early.....did you ship today?

 

[Jonbero]

its preference really, i feel better when i train fasted plus i workout early in the am and dont care to eat that early.....did you ship today?

Yes I dropped it off today 5pm, should be there soon

 

[mr.cooper69]

Yes, I am sure that fasted cardio is not any more preferable than fed cardio. It's not even due to substrate metabolism but rather net energy expenditure.

 

[Geoforce]

my flex magazine says otherwise...

What number Weider principle?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Damn, thanks for the feedback bro! I'll see what I can find.....

You wouldn't want a non-standardized powder anyway. Genomyx alphaburn is your best bet.

 

[th3futur3]

Op. Why not try Lean Gains and never touch cardio again ahah?

 

[Whacked]

Humor us.
What's the BASIC nuts & bolts of this program

Op. Why not try Lean Gains and never touch cardio again ahah?

 

[Geoforce]

Humor us.
What's the BASIC nuts & bolts of this program

www.leangains.com

Million page thread exists on here as well.

Always worked great for me, but I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't need cardio anymore

 

[Whacked]

Ooooo, Ive seen it. It's so often referred to as IF (Intermittent Fasting) these days and on this board, I forget the actual name and had a brain fart - lol

www.leangains.com

Million page thread exists on here as well.

Always worked great for me, but I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't need cardio anymore

 

[Rodja]

Cardio/conditioning should be done year-round for the CV and metabolic benefits.

 

[JudoJosh]

Cardio/conditioning should be done year-round for the CV and metabolic benefits.

Meh..

In my opinion, this idea that cardio is "good for your heart" is on par with the idea that "saturated fat is bad for your heart" (if people keep repeating it over and over then it must be true). Not saying cardio is necessarily bad for you but its benefits with regard to cardiovascular health, are overblown and exaggerated IMO

http://radiology.rsna.org/content/251/1/50.long

 

[Rodja]

Meh..

In my opinion, this idea that cardio is "good for your heart" is on par with the idea that "saturated fat is bad for your heart" (if people keep repeating it over and over then it must be true). Not saying cardio is necessarily bad for you but its benefits with regard to cardiovascular health, are overblown and exaggerated IMO

http://radiology.rsna.org/content/251/1/50.long

Bit of an extreme example with marathon runners.

 

[Jonbero]

Bit of an extreme example with marathon runners.

Agreed. IMO a combination of steady state cardio and HIIT is one of the best ways to lose body fat.

IF looks pretty interesting, I'll have to look into that later today. Can someone who has tried IF share their experiences?

 

[hvactech]

i tried but i couldnt curb the hunger

 

[EasyEJL]

Agreed. IMO a combination of steady state cardio and HIIT is one of the best ways to lose body fat.

IF looks pretty interesting, I'll have to look into that later today. Can someone who has tried IF share their experiences?

mostly its allowing me to eat 2 meals a day with some amount of junk like the fat slob I used to be and i'm gaining some strength and slowly getting leaner. My body doesn't really seem to want to go below 12% very easily and eh, i'm getting tired of struggling with it

 

[murk01]

Ur body Burns 30% of the energy it takes to turn protien into Cal's. So a protein shake 10-20min b4 ur morning routine will only benifit u. Don't ever shy away from clean pure protein and that includes bcaa. This will only build up endurance and push for more sweat. Keep it real get shreeded