DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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    I wish it was still around
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    So what about those of us who felt nothing from taking any lot of Craze -- no energy, no crash, nothing except (when taking "OG" Craze) heart palpitations and actually having a harder time exercising (every time I take it, it feels like I must have already run 10 miles).

    Pat, you need to come out with another groundbreaking stimulant that changes PWO's forever...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if someone snuck a strong MAOI in a product along with a phenethylamine derivative (not alpha-methylated like amphetamines are) then one could possibly acheive amphetamine like activity.
    What type of MAOI would you consider "strong" enough to achieve such results? Natural, name synthetic....? Theoretically speaking of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I would be curious for someone to hypothesise as to why the first tub I used felt like I had used a lidocaine throat spray and four subsequent tubs didn't.

    That is the only reason I am still interested in this thread which appears to be going nowhere fast.
    Yep, I got that lidocaine feeling in my first tub. I have to day the stuff was fun and good for workouts too. Still a decent pre workout I guess, but nothing like the good ole lidocaine batches.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    What type of MAOI would you consider "strong" enough to achieve such results? Natural, name synthetic....? Theoretically speaking of course.
    deprenyl is synthetic but it supposed to make phenethylamines potent

    I know of some natural type AMAOIs that are strong but phenethylamines need MAOI type B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    deprenyl is synthetic but it supposed to make phenethylamines potent

    I know of some natural type AMAOIs that are strong but phenethylamines need MAOI type B

    Harmine alkaloids (type I MAOIs) most certainly make DMT active in the CNS. However DMT is a tryptamine not a phenethylamine.
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    i like grape but,i only use one scoop at a time which,is plenty strong enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Harmine alkaloids (type I MAOIs) most certainly make DMT active in the CNS. However DMT is a tryptamine not a phenethylamine.

    i just said dat

    where did it go?
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    MAO(B) works on phenthylamines. Not awares of any naturally occuring ones
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i just said dat

    where did it go?
    You weren't the only one who commented on that post. Like attempting to educate a snail, it is
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    what does anyone know about

    ISOPROPYLAMPHETAMINE
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    The first few tubs of Craze I purchased are nothing like the ones I'm receiving now. I don't care what DS (no disrespect) or any one else says. Something changed...
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    Quote Originally Posted by southsideguy View Post
    The first few tubs of Craze I purchased are nothing like the ones I'm receiving now. I don't care what DS (no disrespect) or any one else says. Something changed...
    I wouldn't worry too much about respect with them. They clearly do not respect their customers by doing that. They respect money. However, I agree 100% with you
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    Quote Originally Posted by southsideguy View Post
    The first few tubs of Craze I purchased are nothing like the ones I'm receiving now. I don't care what DS (no disrespect) or any one else says. Something changed...
    Cant raws vary? Thats possible. Different batches of raws may have a different effect. It just got banned in Aus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post

    Cant raws vary? Thats possible. Different batches of raws may have a different effect. It just got banned in Aus.
    Yes they can. However. Ds posted "documentation" of each bast being tested. So they claim not a thing has changed. Oh wait. The label did rofl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    Cant raws vary? Thats possible. Different batches of raws may have a different effect. It just got banned in Aus.

    this is why raws are standardized for actives and QC tested

    Yes they can vary a lot, if you dont perform proper QC
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    Cant raws vary? Thats possible. Different batches of raws may have a different effect. It just got banned in Aus.
    Say what?
    What ingredient did they ban?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic

    Say what?
    What ingredient did they ban?
    That's the million dollar question right now.

    Declaimer: I will not pay a million dollars.
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    I did some research,

    Word is some Australian government labritories did some testing and found Alpha-Diethyl-Benzeneethamine (i havnt checked if this is on the label), which they consider to be an analog to meth-anphetamine-therefore they are in the stages of banning it.

    {edited to fix a mistake}
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    Does this mean it could be addictive?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    what does anyone know about

    ISOPROPYLAMPHETAMINE
    dont we ask you the questions? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    I did some research,

    Word is some Australian government labritories did some testing and found Alpha-Diethyl-Benzeneethamine (i havnt checked if this is on the label), which they consider to be a 2 step precursor to meth-anphetamine-therefore they are in the stages of banning it.
    need a better description of the chemical

    does this mean N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine?

    that would be very interesting. and very naughty!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    I did some research,

    Word is some Australian government labritories did some testing and found Alpha-Diethyl-Benzeneethamine (i havnt checked if this is on the label), which they consider to be a 2 step precursor to meth-anphetamine-therefore they are in the stages of banning it.

    not a 2 step precursor but an analog, if this is what i think it is

    methamphetamine is N,alpha-dimethyl-benzeneethanamine

    i guess you could call this "ethamphetamine" lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMR01 View Post
    dont we ask you the questions? lol

    isopropylamphetamine is the same MW as this diethyl benzeneethanamine

    very very interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    Alpha-Diethyl-Benzeneethamine (i havnt checked if this is on the label), which they consider to be a 2 step precursor to meth-anphetamine-therefore they are in the stages of banning it.
    If the nomenclature is correct, then it is an analogue of Phentermine - a pharmaceutical fat loss drug (anorectic). I doubt this is the case.

    Here is what it would look like: pubchem. ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=18506351&loc=e c_rcs (remove the spaces)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post

    need a better description of the chemical

    does this mean N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine?

    that would be very interesting. and very naughty!
    yes this is the one (confirmed from email from aus customs). pls tell us more about this
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    If the nomenclature is correct, then it is an analogue of Phentermine - a pharmaceutical fat loss drug (anorectic). I doubt this is the case.

    Here is what it would look like: pubchem. ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=18506351&loc=e c_rcs (remove the spaces)

    oh damn yeah thats another possibility. ee gatz

    if true this would be a criminal case of massive proportions
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    pieces are coming together damn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    oh damn yeah thats another possibility. ee gatz

    if true this would be a criminal case of massive proportions
    Indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    need a better description of the chemical

    does this mean N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine?

    that would be very interesting. and very naughty!
    http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au...stralia-4.html

    Check out post #59 on page 4 and post #112 (paragraph 1) on page 8. Thats the most informative post and what i based mine off. There are others posts if you want to look. They do not give more detail on the technical compound name though. And you are correct, I meant analog, not precursor. I will fix my post.
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    OMG

    i cant say this is not a hoax. but this guy says N.alpha. which means deliberate methamphetamine analog. this is so serious i cant even imagine the implications to the industry. this could destroy our industry (if true)

    DS Craze BANNED! Does Craze Contain Structural Anaolgue of Methamphetamine? MassiveJoes.com Meth - YouTube
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au...stralia-4.html

    Check out post #59 on page 4 and post #112 (paragraph 1) on page 8. Thats the most informative post and what i based mine off. There are others posts if you want to look. They do not give more detail on the technical compound name though. And you are correct, I meant analog, not precursor. I will fix my post.


    your posts are inaccurate chemically wise

    what would be important here is to know the stereochemistry of this alleged n,alpha-diethyl. is it L (that would not be as bad but then it wouldnt really work). Is it D (very bad). Racemic (pretty much just as bad)
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMR01 View Post
    yes this is the one (confirmed from email from aus customs). pls tell us more about this
    Is this a personal email or something you can link to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    your posts are inaccurate chemically wise

    what would be important here is to know the stereochemistry of this alleged n,alpha-diethyl. is it L (that would not be as bad but then it wouldnt really work). Is it D (very bad). Racemic (pretty much just as bad)
    Sorry, i was just copy pasting. The information i am posting is not from my posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post

    Is this a personal email or something you can link to?
    personal email

    it mentions exactly what that that other goose from you tube sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    Is this a personal email or something you can link to?

    i think i will write a blog tomorrow and include structures

    i will be careful to maintain that all this is alleged. However since its all over the net no on can accuse me of purposely trying to derail a company. Just reporting
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    The decision of the Leagues Anti-Doping Tribunal to impose a two-year sporting ban on Sydney Shield rugby league player Troy Errington for the presence of prohibited substances has been acknowledged by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA).The substances 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine and N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine were detected in a sample ASADA collected in-competition from Mr Errington at a Sydney Shield match on 28 July 2012. The ban imposed on the Sydney Shield rugby league player by the Leagues Anti-Doping Tribunal was backdated to commence on the date of his provisional suspension. This means that Errington is ineligible to participate as an athlete or support person, in any sport that has adopted a World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) compliant anti-doping policy until 25 August 2014.Despite the fact that 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine and N,alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine are not specifically named on WADA’s 2012 Prohibited List, they have similar chemical and biological effects of amphetamines and therefore classed as Category 6b stimulants on the List and are prohibited in competition. Stimulants generally act directly on the central nervous system for speeding up parts of the brain and body besides reduce fatigue and increasing alertness in athletes.In another development, rugby league player Terry Bridge has received a four-year anti-doping suspension from UK Anti-Doping after he was found guilty of multiple anti-doping offenses having been sentenced to ten months in prison for the possession of steroids in November 2011. He is banned from participation in sport from 6 February 2012 until 5 February 2016.

    ===============

    hmmmm. craze?

    http://www.steroid-use.com/blog/sydn...player-banned/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    what would be important here is to know the stereochemistry of this alleged n,alpha-diethyl. is it L (that would not be as bad but then it wouldnt really work). Is it D (very bad). Racemic (pretty much just as bad)
    You really think the chinese would make it stereoselective?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    You really think the chinese would make it stereoselective?
    i would suspect racemic yes. altough off the top of my head i cant really think of how this would be synthesized. i guess i dont spend alot of time thinking about synthesizing amphetamine analogsthats a good thing
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