DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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  1. Would it be safe to say that all this online banter between forums is likely a waste of time and that the courts will determine whether Craze is compliant and meets it's label claims?

    I realize that forums are for discussion and that's all well and good, but it seems rather pointless to expend so much time and energy when none of these tests or hypotheses are going to mean much in legal terms.

    All the accusations in the world will amount to nothing more than a hill of beans once this suit is dropped.

    I'll say again as I've said before, there's just no way Driven Sports would put ingredients that were not compliant into a product that would be under such intense scrutiny. It's too much of a game-changer. This isn't some lame VPX pre-workout that will never see the inside of a lab because it doesn't do anything and no one cares.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    What if they are both in there in the same amounts?
    This is the explanation one of the reps stated in another thread. I believe on bb.com.
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  3. I'd just like to reiterate that Craze is the best PWO out there, by leaps and bounds. Disclaimer: I have no affiliations with DS, and supplement wars/novellas are on par with going to an Adam Lambert concert, as both share certain similarities.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I'd just like to reiterate that Craze is the best PWO out there, by leaps and bounds. Disclaimer: I have no affiliations with DS, and supplement wars/novellas are on par with going to an Adam Lambert concert, as both share certain similarities.
    Is that the guy who was "The Highlander" in all those movies?

    I wish he'd do more films, as I was a huge fan. It wasn't so much his acting ability, as his strange way of speaking. It was haunting.

    If he's doing musical acts now, I'd be keen to go and hear what he has to say. Does he still wear a kilt?

  5. If they are the same amounts they can list them however they wish. This information is all available on the FDA's site.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by starrk View Post
    Would it be safe to say that all this online banter between forums is likely a waste of time and that the courts will determine whether Craze is compliant and meets it's label claims?

    I realize that forums are for discussion and that's all well and good, but it seems rather pointless to expend so much time and energy when none of these tests or hypotheses are going to mean much in legal terms.

    All the accusations in the world will amount to nothing more than a hill of beans once this suit is dropped.

    I'll say again as I've said before, there's just no way Driven Sports would put ingredients that were not compliant into a product that would be under such intense scrutiny. It's too much of a game-changer. This isn't some lame VPX pre-workout that will never see the inside of a lab because it doesn't do anything and no one cares.
    Vpx sells a ****load of product outside the forums.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook


  7. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Vpx sells a ****load of product outside the forums.
    He's referencing their Friction preworkout that has a potentially non DSHEA compliant ingredient(isopropyloctopamine ). There is a couple threads on it over at BB.com


  8. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    thats a weird thing to say if they said that, unless both ingredients are present in the exact same amounts. Because the law demands propietary blends have ingredient listed in descending order of prevalence
    Im not 100% positive but i believe they said they are both present in the same amounts.
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns

  9. Quote Originally Posted by starrk View Post
    Is that the guy who was "The Highlander" in all those movies?

    I wish he'd do more films, as I was a huge fan. It wasn't so much his acting ability, as his strange way of speaking. It was haunting.

    If he's doing musical acts now, I'd be keen to go and hear what he has to say. Does he still wear a kilt?
    Chances are he still rocks a kilt, though not in highlander, mostly at slumber parties.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Vpx sells a ****load of product outside the forums.
    I don't doubt it, but the customers they cater to obviously don't possess the glorious analytical minds that these various online bodybuilding forums do.

    You won't see your average herpa-derp *** customer purchasing a product and then doing anything more than glancing at the label while the salesman regales them with tales of glorious pumps and limitless vascularity.

    lol, didn't realize gee en see was censored here.

    Quote Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    He's referencing their Friction preworkout that has a potentially non DSHEA compliant ingredient(isopropyloctopamine ). There is a couple threads on it over at BB.com
    And that. Don't ban me bro.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    What if they are both in there in the same amounts?
    then either one can be listed first
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  12. Quote Originally Posted by starrk View Post
    I don't doubt it, but the customers they cater to obviously don't possess the glorious analytical minds that these various online bodybuilding forums do.

    You won't see your average herpa-derp *** customer purchasing a product and then doing anything more than glancing at the label while the salesman regales them with tales of glorious pumps and limitless vascularity.

    lol, didn't realize gee en see was censored here.



    And that. Don't ban me bro.

    Well.

    I see the hate is strong.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    Im not 100% positive but i believe they said they are both present in the same amounts.
    Correct.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Interesting you say this, because even if all of the phenethylamines in Craze are correctly labeled, some analytical labs can't even find phenethylamines in dendrobium.

    Besides, does anyone really believe they're using an extract?
    For my purposes, yes. I believe the labeling is consistent with the product it contains.

    If I didn't, I wouldn't buy it.

    With regard to whether it's a scientific fact? Well, I'm sure the outcome of the tests that are sure to come will determine that.

    In terms of other people believing, well, that's pretty irrelevant to me. Not to say I don't care what others have to say, just that for my purposes, their word is good.

    Does that make me naive? Perhaps. But I feel that I'm a good judge of character for the most part and having known Matt and his reps for some time now, I think they are worthy of my trust. I don't hand that out easily, either.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Interesting you say this, because even if all of the phenethylamines in Craze are correctly labeled, some analytical labs can't even find phenethylamines in dendrobium. (http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...A-class-action )

    Besides, does anyone really believe they're using an extract?
    i dont really understand the last two paragraphs of that story
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  16. This is all very entertaining.

    (1) The banter between DS reps and others is noteworthy given the pendency of the lawsuit-- strange how DS' attorneys haven't advised them to stop posting publically about matters relevant to the lawsuit. I suspect that many of these posts will be used during DS' depositions.

    (2) Who's behind this lawsuit and what's the connection between Newport Trial Group (plaintiffs' counsel) and DS' competitors? Kalman Magyar is affililated with plaintiffs' law firm and, according to Mr. Magyar's bio, he "spent four years as Assistant General Counsel for one of the world’s leading nutritional supplement companies in the Toronto, Canada area, managing complex international litigation and regulatory matters, assisting in handling the company’s general commercial issues, and developing litigation preparedness strategies." Anyone ever heard of Magyar before?

    Carry on.

  17. Originally Posted by Daycrawler Well, something we can all agree on is that I'm a faggot!


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Agreed
    Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    Agreed
    Agreed ~X20

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    mike at competitiveedgelabs dot com


  18. Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Originally Posted by Daycrawler Well, something we can all agree on is that I'm a faggot!






    Agreed ~X20
    #unfriended bros, and by bro, I mean never my bro
    SNS Forum Representative | Lift, Laugh, Repeat

  19. Quote Originally Posted by tufnutz View Post
    This is all very entertaining.

    (1) The banter between DS reps and others is noteworthy given the pendency of the lawsuit-- strange how DS' attorneys haven't advised them to stop posting publically about matters relevant to the lawsuit. I suspect that many of these posts will be used during DS' depositions.

    (2) Who's behind this lawsuit and what's the connection between Newport Trial Group (plaintiffs' counsel) and DS' competitors? Kalman Magyar is affililated with plaintiffs' law firm and, according to Mr. Magyar's bio, he "spent four years as Assistant General Counsel for one of the world’s leading nutritional supplement companies in the Toronto, Canada area, managing complex international litigation and regulatory matters, assisting in handling the company’s general commercial issues, and developing litigation preparedness strategies." Anyone ever heard of Magyar before?

    Carry on.
    Nothing that has been posted is truly deposition worthy...

    It's all small-time banter...
    SNS Forum Representative | Lift, Laugh, Repeat

  20. Quote Originally Posted by tufnutz View Post
    This is all very entertaining.

    (1) The banter between DS reps and others is noteworthy given the pendency of the lawsuit-- strange how DS' attorneys haven't advised them to stop posting publically about matters relevant to the lawsuit. I suspect that many of these posts will be used during DS' depositions.

    (2) Who's behind this lawsuit and what's the connection between Newport Trial Group (plaintiffs' counsel) and DS' competitors? Kalman Magyar is affililated with plaintiffs' law firm and, according to Mr. Magyar's bio, he "spent four years as Assistant General Counsel for one of the world’s leading nutritional supplement companies in the Toronto, Canada area, managing complex international litigation and regulatory matters, assisting in handling the company’s general commercial issues, and developing litigation preparedness strategies." Anyone ever heard of Magyar before?

    Carry on.
    Assistant General Counsel

    Iovate Health Sciences


    Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Consumer Goods industry
    April 2007 – April 2011 (4 years 1 month)

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Ah here it is:

    was unawares of any of this

    DS has made themselves a target apparently. They better have their ducks in a row
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  22. Quote Originally Posted by baldymcgee

    Assistant General Counsel

    Iovate Health Sciences

    Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Consumer Goods industry
    April 2007 - April 2011 (4 years 1 month)
    Iovate is MuscleTech

  23. They should have put a cool phenylethylamine like 3'4 dimethoxy 5 hydroxy b phenethylamine in their product

  24. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Iovate is MuscleTech
    This is correct and also responsible for cytogenix and muscle asylum too mind. Anyway i loooove muscletech! i love their adverts especially the ones in M&F where every other page is covered in them! i love the price of their products too, totally worth every penny! can't believe jay cutler and phil heath only used MT supps to get big for the mr.O's, i'll surely be as big as them in noooooo time

  25. Muscletech speaking **** about another supp company some on should sue them cuase their pixi dust suger with some creatine

  26. some great info in here.. thanks
    Formutech Nutrition | Online/Social Media Rep
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by Young JD View Post
    Muscletech speaking **** about another supp company some on should sue them cuase their pixi dust suger with some creatine
    Haha, spoken like a true young JD. Tee it up my man.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Young JD
    Muscletech speaking **** about another supp company some on should sue them cuase their pixi dust suger with some creatine
    This guy was on the MT legal team, left MT, and is now working independently. I wouldn't consider him a voice for MuscleTech. He's just an industry legal expert

  29. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    This guy was on the MT legal team, left MT, and is now working independently. I wouldn't consider him a voice for MuscleTech. He's just an industry legal expert
    Exactly^^^

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    mike at competitiveedgelabs dot com


  30. Quote Originally Posted by Young JD View Post
    Muscletech speaking **** about another supp company some on should sue them cuase their pixi dust suger with some creatine
    Lol, but seriously that crap sells. It's not Muscletech's fault if they bring crap products to the market and they sell like hot cakes. Blame the dumbasses who buy it in droves.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
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