DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I have no idea how you agree with that post at all. Being DSHEA does not require something actually be produced from a ****ing plant or whatever. Also why would a consumer give a fawk about DSHEA? That's like saying I really care where every ingredient in my fruit loops came from. Well I don't care because they taste amazing and their parrot mascot is funny.

    Doesn't anyone actually read the DSHEA guidelines anymore? They are not that hard to understand (although every supplement company will claim they are). And completely available to the public.
    i wasnt thinkiing about natural or synthetic but simply legal or not legal

    i agree that synthetic does not necessarily mean illegal when it comes to supps.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I have no idea how you agree with that post at all. Being DSHEA does not require something actually be produced from a ****ing plant or whatever. Also why would a consumer give a fawk about DSHEA? That's like saying I really care where every ingredient in my fruit loops came from. Well I don't care because they taste amazing and their parrot mascot is funny.
    .

    your fruit loops are made by companies that have to abide by pretty strict FDA and USDA standards. The same is not true with supplements
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    your fruit loops are made by companies that have to abide by pretty strict FDA and USDA standards. The same is not true with supplements
    Don't fawk with my fruit loops.

    That wasn't my point though. The average consumer doesn't know or probably care about the laws surrounding the production of something they ingest. The average consumer cares more about satisfaction (whether it be the awesome taste of fruit loops or an excellent stimulant high).
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by madchemist View Post
    If the PEA analogue can potentiate MAO (many do), or decrease intraneuronal catecholamine production, permanent neurotoxicity may be realized - especially if used chronically.

    This is why PEA analogues are supposed to be thoroughly tested before being released to the market.

    N-Benzyl-2-phenylethylamine has no such testing.
    This post is really telling and alarming, especially after the side effects I began to experience while on Craze. I did not even realize the involuntary movements or how whacked out I became. This is why we, as consumers, must demand DHSEA compliance as these substances can potentially permanently alter brain chemistry or worse.

    With untested substances such as this PEA chain, we are perhaps safer taking Ritalin, amphetamine salts or even cocaine as we know what the long term effects of those are.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Don't fawk with my fruit loops.

    That wasn't my point though. The average consumer doesn't know or probably care about the laws surrounding the production of something they ingest. The average consumer cares more about satisfaction (whether it be the awesome taste of fruit loops or an excellent stimulant high).
    that was my point and you stole it from me
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    that was my point and you stole it from me
    Next is your test force 3 formula...
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Don't fawk with my fruit loops.

    That wasn't my point though. The average consumer doesn't know or probably care about the laws surrounding the production of something they ingest. The average consumer cares more about satisfaction (whether it be the awesome taste of fruit loops or an excellent stimulant high).
    The average consumer doesn't care because their fruit loops don't give them salmonella or some other ridiculous adverse health events BECAUSE of those laws. This is how it works...people only notice the laws when bad **** happens.

  8. as someone that used too thoroughly enjoy some less than legal stims I can say now I really wanna try craze lol.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    The average consumer doesn't care because their fruit loops don't give them salmonella or some other ridiculous adverse health events BECAUSE of those laws. This is how it works...people only notice the laws when bad **** happens.
    What? People are getting salmonella from supplements?
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  10. apparently this is being discussed on bb.com

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...5103591&page=7

    I will be sending my analysis data to neuron and then hopefully we can get the analysis data from cahill and we can compare
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  11. I usually minimise my input on threads like this because to some outsiders it looks like company A is attacking company B and I don't want to make it look like I am being disingenuous and for that image to reflect on the company I represent other than my personal opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by madchemist View Post
    Depends on the degree of neurotoxicity and the neuron-specific method of reducing intraneuronal catecholamines. If it depleted intraneuronal dopamine (mostly via tyrosine hydroxylase inhibition), one could end up with a Parkinsons-like picture.
    Craze sides??? Didn't notice while on

    A lot of "it has no long term testing" can apply in the supplement industry so when I first read madchemist's post I glossed over it and didn't take it seriously i.e. does DAA cause excitotoxicity long term, has any testing been done, will it ever get done over a long period of time, who knows?

    When I saw the above thread it caused me to take note.

    Disclaimer: I took Craze, I enjoyed it. It is very distinctive but I stopped taking after my first tub because I had that instinctive feeling that something wasn't quite right with it as well as it was losing it's potency somewhat. I took 2 scoops throughout once I worked up to it over 3 servings. I suffered no noticeable side effects in terms of involuntary movements.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    apparently this is being discussed on bb.com

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...591&page=7

    I will be sending my analysis data to neuron and then hopefully we can get the analysis data from cahill and we can compare
    I doubt it will happen. There is zero motivation for cahill to do that other than to appease people who never buy his products anyways.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I doubt it will happen. There is zero motivation for cahill to do that other than to appease people who never buy his products anyways.

    u prolly right.

    i was pretty shocked to hear him so adamantly deny the stuff is in his product when not only do i clearly see it in his product but the amount in there appears to be quite hefty.

    hopefully there will be some people that know how to interpret the chromatograms on there for the masses who are not chemists. but even if you arent a chemist you can still see when a fingerprint matches up practically perfectly
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I doubt it will happen. There is zero motivation for cahill to do that other than to appease people who never buy his products anyways.
    OTOH if he is right and I am wrong then him posting his analytical findings would totally shoot down my credibility and raise his to a new level
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  15. Just read through that online reality show known as bb.com, and Cahill has a point. People are asking him to post results that disprove what some of his competitors are claiming to have found, when the competitors themselves aren't being held to the same standard. Carl Lenore also states that he's seen the lab report, and that this whole thing is much to do about nothing.

  16. Sorry for beating a dead horse, Cahill has zilch credibility in my book. What was the deal with the mislabeled diet pills. Didn't a girl die and wasn't jail time metted out? I get not everyone gets toxic effects. I know many people who took a ton of X back in the 80s with no long term ill effects, yet some people did suffer consequences who took much less.

    I personally loved Craze as a PWO. Made me strong and he'll of a lot of stamina. Yet, people around me noticed some weird effects. Glad they said something and a week or so after stopping, I feel better and clearer. My workouts suffer right now a bit though.

  17. This is my first PWO supplement, and I already ordered a tub of Craze due to rave reviews. This thread is making me very, very worried. But more knowledge, more power.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Just read through that online reality show known as bb.com, and Cahill has a point. People are asking him to post results that disprove what some of his competitors are claiming to have found, when the competitors themselves aren't being held to the same standard. Carl Lenore also states that he's seen the lab report, and that this whole thing is much to do about nothing.
    carl lenore is a chemist?
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    What? People are getting salmonella from supplements?
    No. I'm just speaking about adverse health events generally. Imagine the people using PH back when every mom and pop shop sold them and getting some of the very negative sides that can be involved -- they probably suddenly got very interested in the laws regulating what they purchased. Those folks will probably forever look skeptically on this industry. Just like if you got sick from food you purchased, you'd want to know more about the laws that are supposed to prevent you from getting sick.


    BTW, someone in this thread said something inaccurate about Matt Cahill's past and might want to either figure out what really happened or delete that post. People make mistakes and can be held accountable but what was written makes it seem like a very different situation than what it was.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    carl lenore is a chemist?
    No.. but he did stay in a holiday inn express last night. That and DS are paid sponsors of his show. :/
    The Historic PES Legend

  21. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    No. I'm just speaking about adverse health events generally. Imagine the people using PH back when every mom and pop shop sold them and getting some of the very negative sides that can be involved -- they probably suddenly got very interested in the laws regulating what they purchased. Those folks will probably forever look skeptically on this industry. Just like if you got sick from food you purchased, you'd want to know more about the laws that are supposed to prevent you from getting sick.


    BTW, someone in this thread said something inaccurate about Matt Cahill's past and might want to either figure out what really happened or delete that post. People make mistakes and can be held accountable but what was written makes it seem like a very different situation than what it was.
    Can you point to that post?

    The filings are all there for you to see publicly. I don't remember misinformation said (Though I didn't read each post). And I was around way back in the day.
    The Historic PES Legend

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    carl lenore is a chemist?
    LoL one of those episodes he called you a hypocrite or maybe hypocritical. Call him out.
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  23. ****'s getting real at bb.com

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    LoL one of those episodes he called you a hypocrite or maybe hypocritical. Call him out.

    yawn
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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