DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I call BS, no offense. I have many friends who are in the military and have been drug tested, while using Craze, nothing, nada, zilch...not one positive test. Unbelievable the lengths some people will go to. :/

    lengths to go to what? you mean you think he is covering up an actual meth positive?

    actually southpaw a lot of pea derivatives theoretically have the potential to give a false positive on a methamphetamine immunoassay. and many of them are completely legal. even 1,3-dimethylamylamine can cause a false positive occasionally, and it completely lacks a phenyl group
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author


  2. Really wish DS could officially comment on all of this. Meanwhile Craze jumped back up in price, hope everyone who wanted it got in on the cheaper price
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce
    Really wish DS could officially comment on all of this. Meanwhile Craze jumped back up in price, hope everyone who wanted it got in on the cheaper price
    I'm sure once they can, they will.

    Anything from the company and/or reps can be used as a trial exhibit, i've seen similar online postings used before...

    That was the basis of the still active Syntrax case...
    SNS Forum Representative | Lift, Laugh, Repeat

  4. the presence of n-benzyl-2-pea was confirmed. not only that but this product had the same impurity that was in the standard from sigma aldrich

    n-benzyl-2-pea appears to be in the product in very substantial amounts, and as far as i can tell is not listed on the label

    now dont shoot the messenger guys. You know this is what i do
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    the presence of n-benzyl-2-pea was confirmed. not only that but this product had the same impurity that was in the standard from sigma aldrich

    n-benzyl-2-pea appears to be in the product in very substantial amounts, and as far as i can tell is not listed on the label

    now dont shoot the messenger guys. You know this is what i do
    Hmm interesting mislabeled.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by PrepNwa23 View Post
    Hmm interesting mislabeled.

    appears to be. do you see anything that corresponds to the compound i mentioned on the lablel?
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Isn't that the same compound as in Spirodex (disguised as 'oxytropis falcate extracted for biogenic amine content')? I remember some rumors this was in Spirodex because one paper showed it was the only amine present in oxytropis falcate. If so, I'd guess they combined it with a MAOI, either a natural one (like hordenine) or a synthetic one.

    Of course, the inclusion of this compound could be a huge red herring to mislead competitors from duplicating the formula and to 'hide' whatever else may be in there.
    No, that is "benzoyl," not "benzyl." The compound patrick mentioned does not appear to be readily hydrolyzed to PEA, and even if it was, hordenine is pretty much bunk, and DS would not use a synthetic MAOI.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Isn't that the same compound as in Spirodex (disguised as 'oxytropis falcate extracted for biogenic amine content')? I remember some rumors this was in Spirodex because one paper showed it was the only amine present in oxytropis falcate. If so, I'd guess they combined it with a MAOI, either a natural one (like hordenine) or a synthetic one.

    Of course, the inclusion of this compound could be a huge red herring to mislead competitors from duplicating the formula and to 'hide' whatever else may be in there.
    May be why i experienced nausea with Spirodex as well

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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    the presence of n-benzyl-2-pea was confirmed. not only that but this product had the same impurity that was in the standard from sigma aldrich

    n-benzyl-2-pea appears to be in the product in very substantial amounts, and as far as i can tell is not listed on the label

    now dont shoot the messenger guys. You know this is what i do
    I've googled that string and not much substanial information was found...

    Besides the fact that it has little to.no effects...

    Can you elaborate or give a layman explanation?
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    I've googled that string and not much substanial information was found...

    Besides the fact that it has little to.no effects...

    Can you elaborate or give a layman explanation?
    n-benzyl-2-phenylethylamine cas # 3647-71-0
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    n-benzyl-2-phenylethylamine cas # 3647-71-0
    Thanks.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Thanks, but this begs the question to what this compound does hydrolyze too. Any idea?

    I think Patrick should either snort or inject some of his sample to be completely sure wether it has any stimulant activity at all.
    this compound will not hydrolyze

    i suppose though that the benzyl group will be cleaved off by MAO and the nitrogen oxidized to phenylacetaldehyde and then to phenylacetic acid

    (or does the amine go with the cleaved off part giving benzylamine? I dont know exactly how mao works)
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Thanks, but this begs the question to what this compound does hydrolyze too. Any idea?

    I think Patrick should either snort or inject some of his sample to be completely sure wether it has any stimulant activity at all.
    i am not touching it. i will send it to some guys to try though
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    This may be total BS, but this is what I just found on Bluelight:



    Patrick, what do you think?

    edit: link to paper ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20079438

    there are people that frequent these boards that are more versed in psychopharmacology than I. You should ask them
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler

    I've googled that string and not much substanial information was found...

    Besides the fact that it has little to.no effects...

    Can you elaborate or give a layman explanation?
    I think it converts to methamphetamine and amphetamine slightly? all I could really find from blue light.

    nvm

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Austinmck17 View Post
    I think it converts to methamphetamine and amphetamine slightly? all I could really find from blue light.

    nvm
    that should not be possible
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  17. Quote Originally Posted by StackedCop View Post
    Glad I never used this. I'd be pretty pissed if I lost my job bc my pre workout caused me to piss hot
    In the same boast as you. Clearance would be toast...

    Poor Craze.

  18. Stuff like this makes me glad my job doesn't piss test...though I work at a school so what kind of sense does that make? Still, what do we really know about most of what we put in our body anyways? It isn't as if we can label test everything ourselves. Personally I'm glad we have people like PA willing to do these kinds of things. Someone can question motives all they want, but I'm glad SOMEONE is doing it.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the presence of n-benzyl-2-pea was confirmed. not only that but this product had the same impurity that was in the standard from sigma aldrich

    n-benzyl-2-pea appears to be in the product in very substantial amounts, and as far as i can tell is not listed on the label

    now dont shoot the messenger guys. You know this is what i do
    hey patrick thanks a lot for all the knowlegeable input its great to learn a bit about this as I know basically nothing but I'm really interested now of course.

    this "n-benzyl-2-pea" what is it exactly for someone like myself that has no clue? effects? side effects? harmful/harmless?

    thanks in advance.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by jobless View Post
    hey patrick thanks a lot for all the knowlegeable input its great to learn a bit about this as I know basically nothing but I'm really interested now of course.

    this "n-benzyl-2-pea" what is it exactly for someone like myself that has no clue? effects? side effects? harmful/harmless?

    thanks in advance.
    BK, are you telling me that you don't know the answer?

  21. ^^^^


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  22. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the presence of n-benzyl-2-pea was confirmed. not only that but this product had the same impurity that was in the standard from sigma aldrich

    n-benzyl-2-pea appears to be in the product in very substantial amounts, and as far as i can tell is not listed on the label

    now dont shoot the messenger guys. You know this is what i do

    I love ya for all the testing you do (especially with Taurus 7KE Spray) but after working in a law firm for a year I really hope that your sample, testing methods and chain of custody are well documented when making potentially libelous statements about a competitor's product...

    Without you, i'd still be spraying 7KE on myself thinking it was actually 7-keto .
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Stuff like this makes me glad my job doesn't piss test...though I work at a school so what kind of sense does that make? Still, what do we really know about most of what we put in our body anyways? It isn't as if we can label test everything ourselves. Personally I'm glad we have people like PA willing to do these kinds of things. Someone can question motives all they want, but I'm glad SOMEONE is doing it.

    the motive argument is so lame.

    i am a competitor, i test competitors product. its common bizness practice in all sorts of industries. somehow when its done in the supp industry though its considered poor sportsmanship and jealousy. lol
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  24. Quote Originally Posted by jobless View Post
    hey patrick thanks a lot for all the knowlegeable input its great to learn a bit about this as I know basically nothing but I'm really interested now of course.

    this "n-benzyl-2-pea" what is it exactly for someone like myself that has no clue? effects? side effects? harmful/harmless?

    thanks in advance.
    i have no idea what the effects are - positive or negative - when one ingests this ingredient

    so although i have shed some light on this issue, i really havent done anything to answer anyones real concerns
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    I love ya for all the testing you do (especially with Taurus 7KE Spray) but after working in a law firm for a year I really hope that your sample, testing methods and chain of custody are well documented when making potentially libelous statements about a competitor's product...

    Without you, i'd still be spraying 7KE on myself thinking it was actually 7-keto .

    well there are these other guys out there going after DS so i assume what i found will soon be confirmed and made known publically (or at least to the courts) by them. In that case i cannot see any charges of libel being possible

    i am quite confident of my results
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the motive argument is so lame.

    i am a competitor, i test competitors product. its common bizness practice in all sorts of industries. somehow when its done in the supp industry though its considered poor sportsmanship and jealousy. lol
    Agreed. I'm sure many more people test the products, if I was in the business I know I would. It isn't as if phone producers don't examine the contents of *****s phones.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the motive argument is so lame.

    i am a competitor, i test competitors product. its common bizness practice in all sorts of industries. somehow when its done in the supp industry though its considered poor sportsmanship and jealousy. lol
    Agreed. I'm sure many more people test the products, if I was in the business I know I would. It isn't as if phone producers don't examine the contents of competitors phones.

  28. update, I've talked to the testing facility and got them to explain the rare but potential failure of the test cups and the common false negatives associated with "supplements" and have got the company to soften its negativity on the subject. so for now it looks like I'm guilty unless proven innocent. basically meaning if the lab reports back negative they will honer a retest inlace of the first test and hopefully regain my job and get to blame it on a bad cup. however if the report comes back that theres anything remotely close its going to be a battle. So please anyone with any new info please post and try to explain in plain english as much as posable as I'm really not educated in this subject. thanks again to everyone for your help.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    well there are these other guys out there going after DS so i assume what i found will soon be confirmed and made known publically (or at least to the courts) by them. In that case i cannot see any charges of libel being possible

    i am quite confident of my results
    Hey Patrick
    so if I got it right, n-benzyl-2-pea is in Craze (?) and is not listed in the ingredients?
    Would this be the issue? I mean, let's say DS listed it in the label, would everything be ok then?
    Or the ingredient is banned/dangerous?

    And the reason for something like this would be? Somehow try to keep the formula secret?
    Mine is just curiosity and thank you in advance for replying


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