DHEA...?

[MaDmaN]

I have read more contradicting info on this supplement.

I have searched this forum and read every study and still get mixed information.I take 100mg a day of DHEA (not Keto) and I have to say the feeling of well being is noticable.Is it in my head or is there something to this,keep in mind im 45 and Dhea levels are probably suppresed.I am not prone to Gyno or estrogen so im not worried about those side effects,and I have also read the regular DHEA is more effective for boosting hormones than 7 keto..I just need fellow members who have used or use DHEA around my age to give me thier opinions...Thanks

[Iron Warrior]

My pops uses it, he's 51 and uses 50 mg. He says its used for the immune boosting benefits, however, my only concern is if it will increase the risk of hormone dependent cancers ? If not, than it's a great supp IMO.

[Physicist]

LEF ran an article in Aug. 2004 about testosterone. They said that in 1999 they did a search on Medline, and found 21 articles saying high test doesn't cause prostate cancer, and 5 saying it does.
Since then, theres been 4 studies published saying it doesn't, and one unpublished study saying it does. Two of those studies that say test doesn't cause cancer showed that guys with high test are 18% or 26% less like to get prostate cancer. The one recent study that said high test causes cancer also says that other sex horomones (including DHEA) do not.

So theres 25 studies say supplementing won't cause cancer, 6 that say it will.

Heres a link if you want the full article.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/aug2004_awsi_01.htm

[MaDmaN]

Good stuff guys,thanks for the responses...Great article physicist...Im taking 100mg a day and feel great..

[DR.D]

Keep taking it. I've been taking 100mg/d for about the last 7 years and it has helped in a lot of ways.

[MaDmaN]

Keep taking it. I've been taking 100mg/d for about the last 7 years and it has helped in a lot of ways.

[TheTom]

Does DHEA suppress natural testosterone in anyway?

[MaDmaN]

Does DHEA suppress natural testosterone in anyway?

Bump on that, great question..and I have read different views on whether it should be cycled or not..

[TheTom]

I found a couple posts off Avant Labs board regarding DHEA and suppression.
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I have a real newbie DHEA question I'd like to ask. I ran a search but just couldn't find any information on it, so sorry if it's idiotic...

Is DHEA like most steroid hormones, where if you supplement with it you begin to suppress your natural production of it?

I swear I've read somewhere that DHEA cannot be suppressed by DHEA supplementation, but I cannot remember where. I think it was in some Atkin's book. Regardless, I'm still very curious about the answer to this one.

Also, as a follow-up. Lets just say, If DHEA supplementation cannot suppress natural DHEA production. Can the steroid hormones it converts into be suppressed?
------------------------------
I FOUND IT!

Excerpt from Dr. Atkins', "Age-Defying Diet" book.

"If you're taking hormone supplements, and your body suddenly finds it has too much or too little of other hormones, feedback mechanisms spring into action and turn off the flow of what's in excess, or speed up production of what's needed.

But DHEA and it's companion prohormones are among the few hormones in your body that don't have a feedback mechanism. Your body, so far as we know, doesn't respond to DHEA supplements by shutting down it's own DHEA production."

But what about the conversion from supplemental-DHEA into things like testosterone. Well this suppress natural testosterone? Possibly since the body might suspect levels are higher than normal, or since it's coming from a supplement?
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So it looks like using DHEA will not suppress DHEA, but it will suppress Testosterone.

But is that really a problem? Since DHEA can indirectly create Testosterone?

So once you get off supplemental-DHEA, your Testosterone is suppressed, but your (not suppressed) natural-DHEA should be creating Testosterone...

BOBO where are you! I've confused myself.


*runs to Gotham tower and turns on his BOBO light*

[DR.D]

Atkins is wrong. DHEA supps will suppress the adrenal production of DHEA. This is one of the arguments to use it, because your body can make more DHEA ultimately if it's spared some production right now. But at reasonable doses, less than 200mg/d oral, it's really a non-issue.

[RobInKuwait]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read DHEA is a precursor to Andro. How is that a good thing? Does it produce other hormones as well?

And what makes DHEA a supplement and not a prohormone. I saw it in the vitamin section of my supermarket.

[TheTom]

Well it might not do anything significant for young bodybuilders who don't have any hormonal problems.

But as you age your hormone levels decline and that's where supplemental DHEA comes in.

Since DHEA can directly/indirectly turn into just about any hormone, it's the best candidtate for its purpose. That purpose being: When your at or even far passed that hormone-declining age, DHEA can bring all of them back to your previous levels, and is far less suppressive than the alternatives.

I think a good addition to DHEA would be something like this. 100mg of 60x0 a day (1 cap) and 5mg(.25ml) of Nolvadex a day.

These are very small amounts and should help sway the Estrogen-Testosterone ratio in your body, more towards T.

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I'm not sure but I read that it does not affect your levels enough to suppress more than the normal range.

[DR.D]

I think a good addition to DHEA would be something like this. 100mg of 60x0 a day (1 cap) and 5mg(.25ml) of Nolvadex a day.

These are very small amounts and should help sway the Estrogen-Testosterone ratio in your body, more towards T.

That's a good long term plan, but why add nolva? Why not just DHEA and 6-oxo or even a little letro. Nolva is not an anti-e to use that casually.

[TheTom]

Good observation, I didn't even think of using an AI.

Basically my idea was low dose Suicide Inhibitor (60x0) to combat any estrogen formation from supplemental-DHEA.

My reasoning behind the Nolva? I think really small doses (5mg nolva) of a SERM would be good for avoiding any supplemental-DHEA induced estrogen related side effects, in the chest.

For very long term use, Nolva may not be the best option, though. An alternative could be 12.5mg a day of Clomid. This dose should produce the same effect as 5mg a day of Nolva.

Then LETRO! Great idea, Dr.D. A small dose of letro, maybe 200-300micrograms to combat the aromitization of precious T to E, while on DHEA.

100mg 60x0/12.5mg Clomid/200-300mcg Letro + DHEA, and you are definitely getting maximum hormone optimization (for bodybuilding purposes, atleast)

You could probably bump to 150mg/18mg/500mcg and get away with a much higher DHEA dose

Okay, lets not get carried away...

[DR.D]

Tom,

Our prostate will not allow us to use hard steroids forever, that's why I agree with you as far as 'hormone optimization' is concerned. We all will have to face this one day, so a good plan is required.

[PC1]

During the past 7 years or so I've been taking dhea mostly for the anecdotal anti-aging & overall health benefits espoused for people 40 and over. The most interesting benefit I noticed within a few months is that 80% of the gray in my hair vanished, and it took on a shinier more youthful appearance. That and my skin looked and felt younger and better. So if bio markers are any indication of it's effect, I can say I'm enjoying positive benefits.

I first heard about it from a book called "The superhormone promise" by Dr. William Regelson. The book can be boiled down to it's essence as follows: Supplement with melatonin and dhea. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence, I'm not sure if the debate is settled even today.

I've since switched the dhea to 7-keto dhea. 7-keto being a metabolite of dhea. It's supposed to have all the benefits associated with dhea without having an impact on the hpta. So if you're going to supplement but have those concerns, why not go that route?

[MaDmaN]

During the past 7 years or so I've been taking dhea mostly for the anecdotal anti-aging & overall health benefits espoused for people 40 and over. The most interesting benefit I noticed within a few months is that 80% of the gray in my hair vanished, and it took on a shinier more youthful appearance. That and my skin looked and felt younger and better. So if bio markers are any indication of it's effect, I can say I'm enjoying positive benefits.

I first heard about it from a book called "The superhormone promise" by Dr. William Regelson. The book can be boiled down to it's essence as follows: Supplement with melatonin and dhea. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence, I'm not sure if the debate is settled even today.

I've since switched the dhea to 7-keto dhea. 7-keto being a metabolite of dhea. It's supposed to have all the benefits associated with dhea without having an impact on the hpta. So if you're going to supplement but have those concerns, why not go that route?

Hey PC-1 waz up,What dosage were you taking, im at 100mg a day and did you cycle.I have been noticing facial hair was grey and now changing back...very interesting now if only i didnt need these dam reading glasses...Go pat'sthis weekend gonna be a tough one.

[PC1]

Hey PC-1 waz up,What dosage were you taking, im at 100mg a day and did you cycle.I have been noticing facial hair was grey and now changing back...very interesting now if only i didnt need these dam reading glasses...Go pat'sthis weekend gonna be a tough one.

Hey MaDmaN.............

Regelson was in his 60's, and he advocates 50 mg every other day. I didn't notice much from that. I noticed more benefits at 200 mg every day, less at 100 mg/day. I'm not saying either of those are optimal for long term health, just that I noticed more of bio marker benefits short term.

I didn't take any dhea when I was cycling PH's, and I noticed the gray in my hair returning quickly. I mention this because I've heard critics of dhea saying that anyone taking supplemental sex hormones would notice some of the bio marker changes many people get from dhea supplementation. In my case I conclude the dhea has noticeable benefits all by itself.

On the reading glasses....... you know your father warned you about this back when you were like 12-13. You remember the time, don't you? Caught you in a compromising situation with a playboy mag? He told you what would happen if you continued that behavior, I guess you didn't listen ?! ; )

BTW, I have the reading glasses too ; )

[MaDmaN]

Hey MaDmaN.............

Regelson was in his 60's, and he advocates 50 mg every other day. I didn't notice much from that. I noticed more benefits at 200 mg every day, less at 100 mg/day. I'm not saying either of those are optimal for long term health, just that I noticed more of bio marker benefits short term.

I didn't take any dhea when I was cycling PH's, and I noticed the gray in my hair returning quickly. I mention this because I've heard critics of dhea saying that anyone taking supplemental sex hormones would notice some of the bio marker changes many people get from dhea supplementation. In my case I conclude the dhea has noticeable benefits all by itself.

On the reading glasses....... you know your father warned you about this back when you were like 12-13. You remember the time, don't you? Caught you in a compromising situation with a playboy mag? He told you what would happen if you continued that behavior, I guess you didn't listen ?! ; )

BTW, I have the reading glasses too ; )

HaHa..ya I remember if you dont stop it you'll go blind..I said only til I need glases like you....Good one PC, have not heard that one in a while..

Im gonna try 200mg a day just poped another 100mg got em in my desk..