Best non-hormonal supplement for cutting fat??

JoeySon

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So I will be coming off a PH cycle and have been bulking for a few months. I have had some nice gains but some expected midsection fat as well.
Now I plan on running pct normally and not starting to cut until at least a couple weeks after pct has ended.
I understand diet and cardio are key but I was looking for a little assistance to help burn this torso chub lol
I don't want anything hormonal as I want to give my body at least a couple months after pct to regulate itself. Please throw me some suggestions!! Thanks!
 
hvactech

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reduce xt and rk500....
 
hvactech

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e/c.....
 

Clickster

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AX Lean FX & SNS RK-500 Xtreme.
You could also take a look at AX Slim FX. Provides outstanding energy and appetite control.
 
JoeySon

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Wow thanks for all the great quick responses guys, I have awhile to go so I'll def be looking into all these. Keep em coming!
 
JoeySon

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Also, I take in alot of caffeine in my daily diet so I'm going to try to avoid large amounts of it in this supplement. I know it's a large component to a cutting agent but are there very effective ones with little caffeine?
 
bolt10

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Also, I take in alot of caffeine in my daily diet so I'm going to try to avoid large amounts of it in this supplement. I know it's a large component to a cutting agent but are there very effective ones with little caffeine?
DCP, Lean Xtreme, or use SNS to combine your own (I like TTA, Raspberry Ketones and Alcar or Plcar)
 

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DCP/TTA
AlphaBurn+E/C
Lean Xtreme
Dexaprine+HEAT
ErgoShred+HEAT

^^ best of the best
 
R1balla

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Fat Free, Alpha T2, OEP are my favorite. also add in CLA + Raspberry Ketones if you would like.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Fat Free, Alpha T2, OEP are my favorite. also add in CLA + Raspberry Ketones if you would like.
What is the consensus as a whole for CLA? Say some yes some say no...
 
hvactech

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i feel like you'd have to dose the cla to the point where its not cost effective, id substitute the cla for some carnitine
 
Rodja

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When you say hormonal I assume you mean anabolics, so I say a stack of Alpha T2 and DCP.
 
kevinhy

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A few of my personal favorites:

Alpha-T2
OEP
DCP
Eviscerate Topical
 
R1balla

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What is the consensus as a whole for CLA? Say some yes some say no...
yeah i know. ive seen decent results from CLA + Raspberry ketones....not sure if its from the proper diet and ketones or a combo of all.
 

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Have people genuinely experienced results from Raspberry Ketones? Unfortunately I've only ever taken with TTA so I couldn't determine how much RK contributed to the success of the combination. Anyone used RK solo?
 
Geoforce

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E/C Stack
Abliderate/Eviscerate/Eviscerate Smolder (might as well go for Abliderate Advanced now)
Dexaprine.
 
Bolanrox

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What is the consensus as a whole for CLA? Say some yes some say no...
I like CLA but it is something you just take long term. it susposidly can give a 2-3% reduction in body fat in the long term, but like ALA there are other reasons to take it for overall health, the fat loss part is just an added bonus.
 
asooneyeonig

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im going to likely get bashed for this, but why not just learn how the body functions, eat better and get results without any hormonal or non hormonal drugs/supplements to shed fat?

for example, we know that rapid large increases in blood sugar cause an increase in insulin which causes the increase in adipose tissue. we also know that this is a one way street, or that when insulin is high and you are storing more body fat you cannot use bodyfat as fuel. so just avoid the foods that increase blood sugar and replace with foods that have a much lower effect.

for example, replace sugar with lipids. the eskimos and many other northern groups of people go without or nearly without any plant or sugar products eating mostly animal food and larges amounts of fat and they are lean, strong, and healthier then most americans that try and pile all kinds of supplements into themselves.

i am not against supplements. i just know by definition what they are meant to do. they add/enhance what you are doing or eating. so if what you are doing or eating is **** you are only adding more **** on top of that. which to me seems ass backwards as most people want quick/instant fixes yet are not willing to do what will allow for a quick/instant result.

once you get the diet better for fat loss, then take lots of caffeine.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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i feel like you'd have to dose the cla to the point where its not cost effective, id substitute the cla for some carnitine
Which type though? PLCAR ALCAR or regular?
 
fueledpassion

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im going to likely get bashed for this, but why not just learn how the body functions, eat better and get results without any hormonal or non hormonal drugs/supplements to shed fat?

for example, we know that rapid large increases in blood sugar cause an increase in insulin which causes the increase in adipose tissue. we also know that this is a one way street, or that when insulin is high and you are storing more body fat you cannot use bodyfat as fuel. so just avoid the foods that increase blood sugar and replace with foods that have a much lower effect.

for example, replace sugar with lipids. the eskimos and many other northern groups of people go without or nearly without any plant or sugar products eating mostly animal food and larges amounts of fat and they are lean, strong, and healthier then most americans that try and pile all kinds of supplements into themselves.

i am not against supplements. i just know by definition what they are meant to do. they add/enhance what you are doing or eating. so if what you are doing or eating is **** you are only adding more **** on top of that. which to me seems ass backwards as most people want quick/instant fixes yet are not willing to do what will allow for a quick/instant result.

once you get the diet better for fat loss, then take lots of caffeine.
Good suggestion. On second thought, I want to say Lean Gain Dieting has done for many (including myself) a great number on burning up fat cells.
 
Jonbero

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i feel like you'd have to dose the cla to the point where its not cost effective, id substitute the cla for some carnitine
Benefits of CLA come on a long run, its not a quick fix, and megadosing doesn't help

I agree that carnitine is much better, I like ALCAR but PLCAR is very good too but not so cost effective
 

mr.cooper69

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im going to likely get bashed for this, but why not just learn how the body functions, eat better and get results without any hormonal or non hormonal drugs/supplements to shed fat?

for example, we know that rapid large increases in blood sugar cause an increase in insulin which causes the increase in adipose tissue. we also know that this is a one way street, or that when insulin is high and you are storing more body fat you cannot use bodyfat as fuel. so just avoid the foods that increase blood sugar and replace with foods that have a much lower effect.

for example, replace sugar with lipids. the eskimos and many other northern groups of people go without or nearly without any plant or sugar products eating mostly animal food and larges amounts of fat and they are lean, strong, and healthier then most americans that try and pile all kinds of supplements into themselves.

i am not against supplements. i just know by definition what they are meant to do. they add/enhance what you are doing or eating. so if what you are doing or eating is **** you are only adding more **** on top of that. which to me seems ass backwards as most people want quick/instant fixes yet are not willing to do what will allow for a quick/instant result.

once you get the diet better for fat loss, then take lots of caffeine.
You will get bashed, not for recommending a dietary change, but because you are using misleading reductionist thinking to describe fat loss.
 
asooneyeonig

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You will get bashed, not for recommending a dietary change, but because you are using misleading reductionist thinking to describe fat loss.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate_metabolism
that link explains in more detail what i stated about blood sugar and insulin.

http://drbenkim.com/articles-bloodsugar.html
so does this one

http://kidshealth.org/kid/diabetes_basics/living-diabetes/high_blood_sugar.html
even when reading up on diabetes you start to see similarities in what i said

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/high_blood_sugar_hyperglycemia/article_em.htm
and that one too explains how high blood sugar increases insulin which increases adipose tissue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GaSHmay8TI
in that link the person states that as long as insulin is high you cannot burn bodyfat as fuel. adipose tissue has a one way street when it comes to storing or using.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html
and another link showing what i stated was accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_sugar_regulation
and another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipose_tissue
and another....

many of those links reference research articles so the science is there. and this last link i post in particular about how it informs us that insulin inhibits using adipose tissue for fuel.

all those links confirm my statements. so what was misleading about what i stated? if the mechanisms i described are wrong then can you please inform me the correct mechanisms? if i am wrong then i need to learn the correct information. this would not be the first time i have been proven wrong on a forum, admitted it, and learned from it.
 
ikeNball

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Have people genuinely experienced results from Raspberry Ketones? Unfortunately I've only ever taken with TTA so I couldn't determine how much RK contributed to the success of the combination. Anyone used RK solo?

BUMP. I am very curious of this same question? have a bottle im reluctant to use...the ketones seemed to geek me out by themselves.
Also what about this new Fat Free with the Ursolic Acid in it?
 

mr.cooper69

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Again, what you said is fact. But you are still clinging to a reductionist approach to fat loss. See the big picture...
 
jbryand101b

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once you get the diet better for fat loss, then take lots of caffeine.
you just ruined the whole post with the last part. "take lots of caffiene"

it would also help to learn about how fat loss works, and the hormones that are involved in this process. cause it seems you dont.
 
jbryand101b

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate_metabolism
that link explains in more detail what i stated about blood sugar and insulin.

http://drbenkim.com/articles-bloodsugar.html
so does this one

http://kidshealth.org/kid/diabetes_basics/living-diabetes/high_blood_sugar.html
even when reading up on diabetes you start to see similarities in what i said

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/high_blood_sugar_hyperglycemia/article_em.htm
and that one too explains how high blood sugar increases insulin which increases adipose tissue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GaSHmay8TI
in that link the person states that as long as insulin is high you cannot burn bodyfat as fuel. adipose tissue has a one way street when it comes to storing or using.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html
and another link showing what i stated was accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_sugar_regulation
and another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipose_tissue
and another....

many of those links reference research articles so the science is there. and this last link i post in particular about how it informs us that insulin inhibits using adipose tissue for fuel.

all those links confirm my statements. so what was misleading about what i stated? if the mechanisms i described are wrong then can you please inform me the correct mechanisms? if i am wrong then i need to learn the correct information. this would not be the first time i have been proven wrong on a forum, admitted it, and learned from it.

you seem to have selective poor reading comprehension. he didn't say anything about your insulin info being incorrect.
 
asooneyeonig

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Again, what you said is fact. But you are still clinging to a reductionist approach to fat loss. See the big picture...
i can and did go into more detail with my links. i did not feel the need to go all research journal when a reductionist view can get the point across. start off simple and explain as needed is how i find forums work. too much and people wont all of it if any of it at all.

so whats the big picture that you want to tell everyone? cause there are things i left out. they so far have not been needed as i see so would only cloud the posts. maybe there is a point you are trying to make?
 
asooneyeonig

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you just ruined the whole post with the last part. "take lots of caffiene"

it would also help to learn about how fat loss works, and the hormones that are involved in this process. cause it seems you dont.
ok, so how does it work? what hormones are involved?

in all the links i provided earlier you can see references to about 100 other sites. without even looking at those references you can find the hormones involved with fat loss and fat gain. which of those hormones are incorrect? what part of the process is incorrect as i have explained and referenced?

if i am wrong i need to know as i am going to continue posting this information in an attempt to help others. it would benefit myself and anyone else that hears/reads advice from me to get correct information. you can just PM me even or just post links so as not to bog down the thread.
 
asooneyeonig

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you seem to have selective poor reading comprehension. he didn't say anything about your insulin info being incorrect.
he stated i used a reductionist approach. my response went into far more detail, therefore not a reductionist approach. how is that lacking reading comprehension? or are you just trolling? cause you got me! lol.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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he stated i used a reductionist approach. my response went into far more detail, therefore not a reductionist approach. how is that lacking reading comprehension? or are you just trolling? cause you got me! lol.
Read the post. "then take lots of caffiene..."
That's what the issue is. Look at fat loss as coop says from a whole point. Not just individual
 
JoeySon

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Wow a ton of info to sort thu but has anybody tried eviscerate? I've heard some good things about it
 

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or abliterate? where the hell can u even find the stuff??
 
hvactech

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this, plus addin a little bronkaid, and you are set. well, that an if you can find any tta-500, just make sure your micro-nutrient intake is up to par.
thats an option as well though im more of a non stim kinda guy
 

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Insulin is not the devil. For instance there is nothing wrong having a large glycemic load after working out to shuttle nutrients to the muscles you have. Just broken down. Just read an interesting thread on l carnitine and insulin or high glycemic carbs to shuttle more carnitine into the muscle. Eventually this will "flip the switch" and enable your body to oxidize fat as a fuel source more and use glycogen less for energy and keep it in the muscle. Check out dats to learn more. Can't really go into much more detail
 
asooneyeonig

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Look at fat loss as coop says from a whole point. Not just individual
most people just say take a pill. i suggested a better diet then supplement to make a great diet even better. how is that not more whole than what everyone else suggested?

the other supps i know nothing about. so do they work? maybe. i suggested something that we know for a fact works. we know that from when caffeine, ephedra, and aspirin was the common fat burner. since then there has been nothing IMO for a supplement that has worked as well to supplement a great diet.
 
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