N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) Read before supplementing

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  1. N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) Read before supplementing


    One of the key things I found most interesting was this:

    "
    When I first started researching NMDA, I was considering marketing it as a nutritional supplement. After delving in deeper however, a couple of things made me change my mind. First of all, I contacted the patent inventor to see if I could get some more information on NMDA. He regretfully told me that his later research failed to confirm his earlier findings, and that he had deemed the project not worthy of further pursuit. I also discovered that NMDA is potentially quite toxic and may destroy neurons in sensitive areas of the brain like the hippocampus and the basal ganglia. NMDA might also have the capacity to induce convulsions in susceptible individuals.
    "


    but the whole piece is worth reading. Let me know what you guys think!


  2. 1st in spicy thread



    I'm sure Vaughn has considered all of these things, so I'm interested in what he has to say.
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  3. Me too! The benefits described in that article make it seem like a great supplement, then I read that and was like . Interested what others think or know about it.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    1st in spicy thread



    I'm sure Vaughn has considered all of these things, so I'm interested in what he has to say.
    I've addresses the toxicity issues numerous times, as has PA since then actually. He agrees with me that there is no danger in an oral dose of NMDA.


    As to the ingredient not working...I'll let other users speak on that
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  5. Cool. I'll take your word for it.

    Jk but seriously I'm looking for studies or threads on the subject and not finding much as far as toxicity is concerned. Can I get a link or a name that might help me locate what you're referring to?

  6. I could be wrong on this, but I believe the whole neurotoxin bit was 'when physically applied to brain tissue'... at least from my memory when this came up before

  7. They're are quite specific on not dosing more than one dose per day. I did a little research on NMDA myself when beta testing and saw that, but couldn't find anything solid to prove or rebuke those statements, and in what doses those negative results were seen. For all we know, it could have been several grams or maybe more before anything was seen. In for the official response.
    Come check out my Intimidate log! http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188653-natandrb-increasing-his.html#post3126262
    Bury me deep where there's no will to be Better than you! -Metallica

  8. I'd be interested in giving this product a try in the future if I was a little more confident about it not being neurotoxic because it sounds like it has some great positive attributes.

  9. Just did a little more reading, and it seems like if large doses are applied directly to brain matter, then yes it will destroy neural cells. However, if given a smaller dose, it allows individuals to respond to excitatory stimuli through the interrelated functioning of NMDA receptors, glutamate, and dopamine. IOW, high doses directly applied to neural cells will kill them while lower doses directly applied to neural cells will stimulate them. So assuming they were dosing higher than 50mg/~80-100 kg, again, directly to the neural cells, then between the recommended doses and the fact that we have this thing called a blood-brain barrier, I don't think we have too much to worry about. Just don't go mixing this stuff into solution and injecting into your brain or spinal column.
    Come check out my Intimidate log! http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188653-natandrb-increasing-his.html#post3126262
    Bury me deep where there's no will to be Better than you! -Metallica

  10. Seems safe to me.
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  11. A link to a site might have been nice but I'll look for those studies at a later date. Does seem safe if that's accurate and I might give this a run in a few months if the user feedback is good!

  12. The same DAA "scare" has been around for a long time as well. Now it's a thing of the past.
    iForce Nutrition Representative
    iTrain. iCompete. iDominate…iForce!
    www.iforcenutrition.com

  13. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Seems safe to me.
    I 2nd that, and am willing to put my high school degree on it
    lol

  14. Quote Originally Posted by natandrb View Post
    They're are quite specific on not dosing more than one dose per day. I did a little research on NMDA myself when beta testing and saw that, but couldn't find anything solid to prove or rebuke those statements, and in what doses those negative results were seen. For all we know, it could have been several grams or maybe more before anything was seen. In for the official response.
    True. Interested in the dosage amount on what was posted.

  15. The amount of legitimate scientific research and citation going on in this thread is staggering. It's really something when you come into a thread and it's full of people on all sides of an issue who thoroughly appreciate what constitutes proof and don't waste time with nonsense.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by PuZo View Post
    The same DAA "scare" has been around for a long time as well. Now it's a thing of the past.
    ^^^ This, I was going to say the same thing. They had a lot of sides/scares about this with DAA as well.
    **G D I** --Bruce the Destroyer--

  17. why stop using a proven product DAA for an unproven one (meaning there are NONE studies that have tested the toxicity and effectiveness in humans of NMDA)

    ?????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????

    i cannot believe why people do that

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    One of the key things I found most interesting was this:

    "
    When I first started researching NMDA, I was considering marketing it as a nutritional supplement. After delving in deeper however, a couple of things made me change my mind. First of all, I contacted the patent inventor to see if I could get some more information on NMDA. He regretfully told me that his later research failed to confirm his earlier findings, and that he had deemed the project not worthy of further pursuit. I also discovered that NMDA is potentially quite toxic and may destroy neurons in sensitive areas of the brain like the hippocampus and the basal ganglia. NMDA might also have the capacity to induce convulsions in susceptible individuals.
    "


    but the whole piece is worth reading. Let me know what you guys think!
    Is there a link to a larger article that I'm not seeing? Can you please provide this? Thank you.
    ***PES Representative***
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com

  19. NMDA-induced neurotoxicity in a human model is very poorly understood, and you probably won't be seeing a safety study any time in the near future due to variation in human experience and the invasiveness of such an experiment. The in vitro data leads me to believe that toxicity won't be an issue at the doses being supplemented, but as a "safety net," you could always consider supplementing low-dosed Huperzine A or Agmatine.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    I'd be interested in giving this product a try in the future if I was a little more confident about it not being neurotoxic because it sounds like it has some great positive attributes.

    I understand your concerns. Gains are not worth it when they come at the cost of our health!


    We tested this compound in dozens of people before bringing it to the market to ensure its safety. Just about every person who reads the science sees how this is non-toxic when taken orally, however I think this study may help people relax a bit(if they still believe it may be toxic):

    Neuroprotective effects of creatine administration against NMDA and malonate toxicity.

    Malcon C, Kaddurah-Daouk R, Beal MF.
    Source

    Neurochemistry Laboratory, Neurology Service, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA.

    Abstract

    We examined whether creatine administration could exert neuroprotective effects against excitotoxicity mediated by N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA) and kainic acid. Oral administration of 1% creatine significantly attenuated striatal excitotoxic lesions produced by NMDA, but had no effect on lesions produced by AMPA or kainic acid. Both creatine and nicotinamide can exert significant protective effects against malonate-induced striatal lesions. We, therefore, examined whether nicotinamide could exert additive neuroprotective effects with creatine against malonate-induced lesions. Nicotinamide with creatine produced significantly better neuroprotection than creatine alone against malonate-induced lesions. Creatine can, therefore, produce significant neuroprotective effects against NMDA mediated excitotoxic lesions in vivo and the combination of nicotinamide with creatine exerts additive neuroprotective effects.

    Ok...so do any of you take Creatine? Yes, I know you all do.

    Do any of you take Niacin? The vast majority of you do...and if not, you can get a great dose in MANY products out there, or even on its own.



    Basically here are the facts:

    #1 - NMDA can not cause excitotoxicity when given orally.
    #2 - NMDA excitotoxicity was proven to be basically non-existant in vivo by simply adding in creatine(at a 1% solution nontheless!) and niacin.


    so...Intimidate is 100% safe/healthy. If you're at ALL concerned about it, just make sure you're taking 1-5g of creatine, and a small dose of niacin each day and...BOOM!
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  21. Quote Originally Posted by magick69 View Post
    why stop using a proven product DAA for an unproven one (meaning there are NONE studies that have tested the toxicity and effectiveness in humans of NMDA)

    ?????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????

    i cannot believe why people do that
    D-Aspartate (what forums refer to as DAA) and N-methyl-D-Aspartate (NMDA) both interact with NMDA receptors. These receptors are relatively highly permeable to calcium, hence the potential for neurotoxicity (intracellular calcium will activate numerous cellular pathways, among them apopotosis, i.e. cell death). The real question is, what is the safe oral dosage for either compound? Good luck funding a study looking into this... Unfortunately, anecdotal evidence may be all we have to rely on for a while.

  22. we already know what is the safe dose for DAA what we don't know is

    1) NMDA toxicity in humans
    2) effectiviness
    3) dose

    at the moment we have DAA studies and NONE FOR NMDA ; so it is safe to buy studied products

    this is logic cannot be argued

  23. Quote Originally Posted by magick69 View Post
    we already know what is the safe dose for DAA what we don't know is

    1) NMDA toxicity in humans
    2) effectiviness
    3) dose

    at the moment we have DAA studies and NONE FOR NMDA ; so it is safe to buy studied products

    this is logic cannot be argued
    so I take it you've done absolutely no research on the matter, nor have you read any of my posts?
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  24. Quote Originally Posted by magick69 View Post
    we already know what is the safe dose for DAA what we don't know is

    1) NMDA toxicity in humans
    2) effectiviness
    3) dose

    at the moment we have DAA studies and NONE FOR NMDA ; so it is safe to buy studied products

    this is logic cannot be argued
    Please point me to a study that establishes what the safe dosage of D-aspartate is. People use 3 g because that's approximately what was used in the RB&E study. To my knowledge, they did not take any sort of metics looking at toxicity, so there is no way to know if that is a 'safe dose'. Point being, with either of those compounds, and most supplements for that matter, there will be a certain level of risk involved.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by magick69
    we already know what is the safe dose for DAA what we don't know is

    1) NMDA toxicity in humans
    2) effectiviness
    3) dose

    at the moment we have DAA studies and NONE FOR NMDA ; so it is safe to buy studied products

    this is logic cannot be argued
    Don't worry. Just take it. Vaughn say it's allllll good. I think you are only born with one brain anyway. Well there's two but the little guy ain't so smart in some cases. Good luck.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Scuba Steveo View Post
    Please point me to a study that establishes what the safe dosage of D-aspartate is. People use 3 g because that's approximately what was used in the RB&E study.
    I take 6 grams a day - 3 in the mo-nin' and 3 at night. Been doing that for a year now. Cycled off maybe one or two months otherwise just continuous. DAA is a staple for me.

    Oddly, this is the first I've ever heard of NMDA being available for use.

    I like what Vaughn is saying on this - and the studies he's provided - so I'll be trying this stuff in the future.

  27. Thanks Honda
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Is there a link to a larger article that I'm not seeing? Can you please provide this? Thank you.
    Yes there was; thank you for catching that. For some reason it was omitted for my first post...

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...atrick-arnold/

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    Yes there was; thank you for catching that. For some reason it was omitted for my first post...

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...atrick-arnold/
    Thanks for the link.
  30. therealest77
    therealest77's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

    so I take it you've done absolutely no research on the matter, nor have you read any of my posts?
    Vaughn, since everyone wants to second guess the stuff, just send it all to me. I can cut big POs too pal....
  

  
 

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