come up with the best "non pump" endurance formula!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Bolanrox View Post
    i keep thinking about that (was it Navy SEAL) article about how creatine was detrimental for anything endurance based

    I find MCC works very well for not only endurance,but keeping strength and muscle mass high!
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  2. RPM GSE, L-Arginine, Caffeine, Naringin, Theobromine, and Cocoa- works great for endurance work, and has been around forever:
    J Strength Cond Res. 2010 May;24(5):1306-12.
    Effects of arginine-based supplements on the physical working capacity at the fatigue threshold.

    Camic CL, Housh TJ, Zuniga JM, Hendrix RC, Mielke M, Johnson GO, Schmidt RJ.
    Source

    Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Nutrition and Health Sciences, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Lincoln, Nebraska, USA. [email protected]

    Abstract

    The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of daily oral administration of arginine-based supplements for 4 weeks on the physical working capacity at the fatigue threshold (PWCFT). The PWCFT test is an electromyographic (EMG) procedure for estimating the highest power output that can be maintained without neuromuscular evidence of fatigue. The study used a double-blind, placebo-controlled design. Fifty college-aged men (mean age +/- SD = 23.9 +/- 3.0) were randomized into 1 of 3 groups: (a) placebo (n = 19); (b) 1.5 g arginine (n = 14); or (c) 3.0 g arginine (n = 17). The placebo was microcrystalline cellulose. The 1.5-g arginine group ingested 1.5 g of arginine and 300 mg of grape seed extract, whereas the 3.0 g arginine group ingested 3.0 g of arginine and 300 mg of grape seed extract. All subjects performed an incremental test to exhaustion on a cycle ergometer to determine their PWCFT before supplementation (PRE) and after 4 weeks of supplementation (POST). Surface EMG signals were recorded from the vastus lateralis using a bipolar electrode arrangement during the incremental tests for the determination of the PRE and POST supplementation PWCFT values. There were significant mean increases (PRE to POST) in PWCFT for the 1.5 g (22.4%) and 3.0 g (18.8%) supplement groups, but no change for the placebo group (-1.6%). These findings supported the use of arginine-based supplements, at the dosages examined in the present investigation, as an ergogenic aid for untrained individuals.
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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  3. Hemavol is a good endurance formula.

  4. Drive by AppNut has always given me ridiculous endurance

  5. Quote Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
    Drive by AppNut has always given me ridiculous endurance

    cordyceps is def in the mix for sure.
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  6. Strong nitpicking of arginine studies lol. Want me to post the vast majority that conflict that one study (in trained individuals, I might add)?

    Naringin won't enhance performance (again, check the majority of the studies and the methodology).

    Theobromine/Cocoa...eh. Nothing caffeine can't do really.

    I do agree with caffeine and GSE...good choices.

    Ribose won't enhance endurance.

    Electrolytes won't directly enhance endurance.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Strong nitpicking of arginine studies lol. Want me to post the vast majority that conflict that one study (in trained individuals, I might add)?

    Naringin won't enhance performance (again, check the majority of the studies and the methodology).

    Theobromine/Cocoa...eh. Nothing caffeine can't do really.

    I do agree with caffeine and GSE...good choices.

    Ribose won't enhance endurance.

    Electrolytes won't directly enhance endurance.
    well I don't want any agmatine,arginine,etc... Im not sure if im being clear perhaps lol.... agreed 200mg of sns caff works as good as it all!

    for a few reasons( non endurance related) im thinking electrolytes will be in there one way or another....
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  8. i remember talking about this with coop a while back.......i understand not wanting a "pump" product, but he made a solid argument for hemavol being one of the best endurance formula's available

    cit-mal for vasoregulatory function, norvaline to amplify the cit-mal, agmatine for CNOS expression......and then GMS works really well in an endurance situations

    going off of memory here, hopefully he can comment more on it.

    iForce Nutrition Online Representative Manager
    iTrain. iCompete. iDominate…iForce!
    www.iforcenutrition.com

  9. all valid points,just other options I had in mind...

    gms is a decent option...
    SeriousNutritionSolutions:::
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    i remember talking about this with coop a while back.......i understand not wanting a "pump" product, but he made a solid argument for hemavol being one of the best endurance formula's available

    cit-mal for vasoregulatory function, norvaline to amplify the cit-mal, agmatine for CNOS expression......and then GMS works really well in an endurance situations

    going off of memory here, hopefully he can comment more on it.

    Yep, you nailed it pretty much. Hemavol and MAN Body Octane (stim-free) are two A+ endurance formulas.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by ScienceGuided View Post
    all valid points,just other options I had in mind...

    gms is a decent option...
    If you want a list, PM me .

  12. body octane stim free is pretty good,agreed.Taste is not bad at all either
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  13. If we are talking pure endurance and non stim. I would say beta alanine and Drive. The cordyceps really increase my endurance in a way other endurance based products haven't before. Plus the added test boosting and thyroid stimulation really helps with leaning out.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE

  14. I don't mind stims here and there for this purpose,would prefer to leave it alone though.

    BA is def in the picture,playing around with doses and timing.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by ScienceGuided
    I don't mind stims here and there for this purpose,would prefer to leave it alone though.

    BA is def in the picture,playing around with doses and timing.
    In that case I would highly suggest Drive or cordygen. Both excellent non stim endurance products.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    Hmm

    Ok I'm thinking

    BCAA's 10g (4-1-1 or 8-1-1)

    Beta-alanine 2500mg
    Creapure 5g
    Betaine Anhydrous 2500mg
    L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate 2g
    Taurine 2g
    Citrulline Malate 2g
    Def not a high leucine BCAA . At least valine (and maybe isoleucine) does great for booth energy and endurance. Leucine is overlooked. Otherwise it looks good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbero View Post
    Ribose
    Vitargo
    Magesium, Sodium and Potassium
    Ribose have vasodilatory properties .

  17. yea Ribose is a no go
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