Adrenal Fatigue supplements... I need a list

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    Adrenal Fatigue supplements... I need a list


    Whether it is a formula or individual ingredient.

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    Adrenal fatigue is not a true medical condition.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Adrenal fatigue is not a true medical condition.
    some endocrinologists think so
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    some endocrinologists think so
    Probably because that is what they learned in school. Developments in the understanding of adrenal fatigue have been fairly recent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Probably because that is what they learned in school. Developments in the understanding of adrenal fatigue have been fairly recent.
    I listen to John Crisler on SHR who is on the up and coming with newest endo practices. He did a show on adrenal fatigue and said it its possible that the body could experiencr it. That has been awhile ago, would love to hear his thoughts again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    I listen to John Crisler on SHR who is on the up and coming with newest endo practices. He did a show on adrenal fatigue and said it its possible that the body could experience in it. That has been awhile ago, would love to hear his thoughts again.
    It could indeed experience it but not by virtue of common stimulant utilization. Citing endocrinologists is a moot point (I know one of the top endos in the world at a medical institution...this is even his area of research)...all relevant research shows that adrenal fatigue in a stimulant-using, otherwise healthy user is nonexistent.
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    Just out of curiosity what makes you think your adrenal glands are fatigued? I ask because if you are tolerant to stims it would most likely have more to do with an increased amount of adenosine receptors. At least, this is what I have come across in researching.

    EDIT: Dam, walked away from the PC and ^^^^already kinda got to what I was getting at.
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...drenal+fatigue

    that thread got nice and spicy.........adrenal fatigue = BS
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Adrenal fatigue is not a true medical condition.
    It isn't a medical condition, but many other things aren't medical conditions and they are still problems. We have had this discussed before on here and bb dot com
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    It could indeed experience it but not by virtue of common stimulant utilization. Citing endocrinologists is a moot point (I know one of the top endos in the world at a medical institution...this is even his area of research)...all relevant research shows that adrenal fatigue in a stimulant-using, otherwise healthy user is nonexistent.
    Agreed
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Adrenal fatigue is not a true medical condition.
    I was JUST about to type this after I read the first post. Basically there is no evidence that the adrenals can become 'fatigued' from overuse. The term "adrenal fatigue" is often just a poor label to describe HPA dysfunction.

    This idea that the adrenals can get tired and need rest is ridiculous with no real supporting evidence.
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    But what we can do is help the OP with his problem...

    Let me guess, OP has been on stimulants (pre-workouts) for months and no longer reaps the stimulant benefits. OP wants to know if he should take time off or can take something to "reset" or "cleanse" his adrenal glands (lol).
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    Hmmm, first post is somewhat elusive...What if OP is actually asking for a list of supplements that WILL cause Adrenal fatigue? Hmmmm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    Hmmm, first post is somewhat elusive...What if OP is actually asking for a list of supplements that WILL cause Adrenal fatigue? Hmmmm?
    lol
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    we just had this debate on bb.com and im open for a nice discussion and get others thoughts in on this:

    The Adrenal glands work by producing hormones that regulate many bodily functions. They help regulate blood pressure, blood volume, androgens, cortisol, epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) (your fight or flight hormones).

    CAFFEINE and other stimulants disrupt regular adrenal function by sending a signal to your adrenal glands to increase the production of the stress hormones epinephrine, norepiniphrine and cortisol. The increase in epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine is what causes the rise in blood pressure as well as that "buzzed" feeling. This is all done by your body to prepare itself for stress.

    So, CAFFEINE technically tricks the body into preparing itself for a stressful situation by signalling the adrenal glands to produce these stress hormones and prepare for "fight or flight".

    Now you have your daily stressful events at work, school, relationships, as well as physical stress from the gym and then you throw in caffeine and other stimulants, which are proven to stimulate adrenals, and you're telling me you're not overworking your adrenal glands?

    What happens to people's Pancreas who consume sugary and starchy high glycemic foods their whole lives? It malfunctions and can no longer produce the hormone it is supposed to produce... INSULIN and you get DIABETES!! Which I will call PANCREATIC FATIGUE for argument's sake.

    What happens to cocaine and methamphetamine addicts who abuse these drugs their whole lives? Depression and continued addiction because of the toll it has taken on their adrenal glands. And don't forget what it does to another very important organ, THE HEART. Eventually, these stimulants cause the adrenal glands to improperly function and cause the continuous release of catecholamines which have a very stressful impact on the heart, and over time can even cause the heart to stop beating. Heart fatigue?


    So yes you're right, TECHNICALLY the term "Adrenal Fatigue" is not a clinically proven illness. But neither is Pancreatic Fatigue or Coronary Fatigue. Instead we call these two organ malfunctions DIABETES and HEART DISEASE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    Hmmm, first post is somewhat elusive...What if OP is actually asking for a list of supplements that WILL cause Adrenal fatigue? Hmmmm?

    i LOLed
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    we just had this debate on bb.com and im open for a nice discussion and get others thoughts in on this:

    The Adrenal glands work by producing hormones that regulate many bodily functions. They help regulate blood pressure, blood volume, androgens, cortisol, epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) (your fight or flight hormones).

    CAFFEINE and other stimulants disrupt regular adrenal function by sending a signal to your adrenal glands to increase the production of the stress hormones epinephrine, norepiniphrine and cortisol. The increase in epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine is what causes the rise in blood pressure as well as that "buzzed" feeling. This is all done by your body to prepare itself for stress.

    So, CAFFEINE technically tricks the body into preparing itself for a stressful situation by signalling the adrenal glands to produce these stress hormones and prepare for "fight or flight".

    Now you have your daily stressful events at work, school, relationships, as well as physical stress from the gym and then you throw in caffeine and other stimulants, which are proven to stimulate adrenals, and you're telling me you're not overworking your adrenal glands?

    What happens to people's Pancreas who consume sugary and starchy high glycemic foods their whole lives? It malfunctions and can no longer produce the hormone it is supposed to produce... INSULIN and you get DIABETES!! Which I will call PANCREATIC FATIGUE for argument's sake.

    What happens to cocaine and methamphetamine addicts who abuse these drugs their whole lives? Depression and continued addiction because of the toll it has taken on their adrenal glands. And don't forget what it does to another very important organ, THE HEART. Eventually, these stimulants cause the adrenal glands to improperly function and cause the continuous release of catecholamines which have a very stressful impact on the heart, and over time can even cause the heart to stop beating. Heart fatigue?


    So yes you're right, TECHNICALLY the term "Adrenal Fatigue" is not a clinically proven illness. But neither is Pancreatic Fatigue or Coronary Fatigue. Instead we call these two organ malfunctions DIABETES and HEART DISEASE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    we just had this debate on bb.com and im open for a nice discussion and get others thoughts in on this:

    The Adrenal glands work by producing hormones that regulate many bodily functions. They help regulate blood pressure, blood volume, androgens, cortisol, epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) (your fight or flight hormones).

    CAFFEINE and other stimulants disrupt regular adrenal function by sending a signal to your adrenal glands to increase the production of the stress hormones epinephrine, norepiniphrine and cortisol. The increase in epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine is what causes the rise in blood pressure as well as that "buzzed" feeling. This is all done by your body to prepare itself for stress.

    So, CAFFEINE technically tricks the body into preparing itself for a stressful situation by signalling the adrenal glands to produce these stress hormones and prepare for "fight or flight".

    Now you have your daily stressful events at work, school, relationships, as well as physical stress from the gym and then you throw in caffeine and other stimulants, which are proven to stimulate adrenals, and you're telling me you're not overworking your adrenal glands?

    What happens to people's Pancreas who consume sugary and starchy high glycemic foods their whole lives? It malfunctions and can no longer produce the hormone it is supposed to produce... INSULIN and you get DIABETES!! Which I will call PANCREATIC FATIGUE for argument's sake.

    What happens to cocaine and methamphetamine addicts who abuse these drugs their whole lives? Depression and continued addiction because of the toll it has taken on their adrenal glands. And don't forget what it does to another very important organ, THE HEART. Eventually, these stimulants cause the adrenal glands to improperly function and cause the continuous release of catecholamines which have a very stressful impact on the heart, and over time can even cause the heart to stop beating. Heart fatigue?


    So yes you're right, TECHNICALLY the term "Adrenal Fatigue" is not a clinically proven illness. But neither is Pancreatic Fatigue or Coronary Fatigue. Instead we call these two organ malfunctions DIABETES and HEART DISEASE.
    No, it's not an issue of semantics and how we classify the illness. Organ dysfunction simply does not explain what you go through when you abuse stimulants.
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    This is something that we should, have posted In ask dana houser section. Would be nice to get some medical expertise in here...or his thoughts
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    Now you have your daily stressful events at work, school, relationships, as well as physical stress from the gym and then you throw in caffeine and other stimulants, which are proven to stimulate adrenals, and you're telling me you're not overworking your adrenal glands?
    here is where the problem begins. It is the idea that your adrenals have the ability to get tired, fatigued or overworked. This is simply not true and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that it is even a possibility.

    Think about a patient who has cushing. Their adrenals will kick out enormous amounts of cortisol almost non stop and not once do they "get tired". So let me the ask, if someones adrenals with cushings, which is reciving a constant stimulus, and their adrenals continue to function just fine, what makes you think it is possible for our adrenals to get fatigued?

    Adrenal fatigue is more then just a mislabel because along with this term comes the idea that if you give them a "rest" somehow everything will get better. Now is it possible for someone to have a adrenal insufficiency? Absolutely and it is called addisons disease but more than likely when someone uses the horrible term "adrenal fatigue" they are usually describing HPA dysfunction. When this happens, yes the body can stop naturally producing enough hormones BUT it isnt because the adrenals are tired but usually a deeper underlying cause which is causing something to become out of balance and if I remember correctly the typical treatment given for this is glucocorticoids but even then it has had a fairly limited success rate. As coop said this is relatively new and there are still many unanswered questions.

    Think of it this way (is steroid terms )
    I am going to try and compare the HPA axis to the HPTA

    Here we have you HPA axis


    Now my understanding of it is the hypothalamus will sense serum cortisol and modulate CRH/ACTH output in so to keep glucocortcoid levels constant.

    Now to compare this to the HPTA


    the way this works is somewhat similar, the hypothalamus releases GnHR and GHRH to our pituitary which in turn releases LH and FSH to the testes which release the testosterone.

    Now with HPA dysfunction, it is not that the adrenals become "fatigued" but it is that a mechanism exists by which adrenal response is chronically down-regulated (usually after a prolonged period of stress) and this mechanism as far as I know has yet to be identified (although there are some theories floating about).

    Now back to the HPTA comparison, with HPA dysfunction basically something is out of wack and you end up with a low hypothalamic CRH production which leads to low cortisol production. Now lets compare to someone whose HPTA is out of wack shall we. We all know that when coming off a cycle of exogenous androgens our body down regulates testosterone production (via negative feedback of the androgens). What we end up with is too many androgen receptors of the hypothalamus have become activated so there is a decrease in GnRH release which ultimately equals a decrease in testosterone production.

    Now that said, does anything in the HPTA become "fatigued"? Or is it there was a disruption of the balance (i.e the introduction of exogenous androgens)? Would the solution to low test be to give your testes or leydig cells a rest? No it wont be, the solution is to somehow stimulate GnHR release. So if the solution to low test output isnt rest then why is the solution to low adrenal output that it needs rest?

    The main problem with HPA dysfunction is we dont know exactly what the mechanism for adrenal fatigue is. Again, as Coop said above , the developments in the understanding in all of this is fairly recent and there is much that is still unknown. Oh and Mr coop if I got anything wrong please feel free to correct me as I dont have a full grasp of it entirely yet.
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    Can a simple question be asked that would allow a fairly straight forward answer,
    What causes/can cause adrenal insufficiency?
    Use of stims then stopping them, ongoing stress, poor sleep, sh***y diet and lifestyle, or is the cause not that easy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    here is where the problem begins. It is the idea that your adrenals have the ability to get tired, fatigued or overworked. This is simply not true and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that it is even a possibility.

    Think about a patient who has cushing. Their adrenals will kick out enormous amounts of cortisol almost non stop and not once do they "get tired". So let me the ask, if someones adrenals with cushings, which is reciving a constant stimulus, and their adrenals continue to function just fine, what makes you think it is possible for our adrenals to get fatigued?

    Adrenal fatigue is more then just a mislabel because along with this term comes the idea that if you give them a "rest" somehow everything will get better. Now is it possible for someone to have a adrenal insufficiency? Absolutely and it is called addisons disease but more than likely when someone uses the horrible term "adrenal fatigue" they are usually describing HPA dysfunction. When this happens, yes the body can stop naturally producing enough hormones BUT it isnt because the adrenals are tired but usually a deeper underlying cause which is causing something to become out of balance and if I remember correctly the typical treatment given for this is glucocorticoids but even then it has had a fairly limited success rate. As coop said this is relatively new and there are still many unanswered questions.

    Think of it this way (is steroid terms )
    I am going to try and compare the HPA axis to the HPTA

    Here we have you HPA axis

    Now my understanding of it is the hypothalamus will sense serum cortisol and modulate CRH/ACTH output in so to keep glucocortcoid levels constant.

    Now to compare this to the HPTA

    the way this works is somewhat similar, the hypothalamus releases GnHR and GHRH to our pituitary which in turn releases LH and FSH to the testes which release the testosterone.

    Now with HPA dysfunction, it is not that the adrenals become "fatigued" but it is that a mechanism exists by which adrenal response is chronically down-regulated (usually after a prolonged period of stress) and this mechanism as far as I know has yet to be identified (although there are some theories floating about).

    Now back to the HPTA comparison, with HPA dysfunction basically something is out of wack and you end up with a low hypothalamic CRH production which leads to low cortisol production. Now lets compare to someone whose HPTA is out of wack shall we. We all know that when coming off a cycle of exogenous androgens our body down regulates testosterone production (via negative feedback of the androgens). What we end up with is too many androgen receptors of the hypothalamus have become activated so there is a decrease in GnRH release which ultimately equals a decrease in testosterone production.

    Now that said, does anything in the HPTA become "fatigued"? Or is it there was a disruption of the balance (i.e the introduction of exogenous androgens)? Would the solution to low test be to give your testes or leydig cells a rest? No it wont be, the solution is to somehow stimulate GnHR release. So if the solution to low test output isnt rest then why is the solution to low adrenal output that it needs rest?

    The main problem with HPA dysfunction is we dont know exactly what the mechanism for adrenal fatigue is. Again, as Coop said above , the developments in the understanding in all of this is fairly recent and there is much that is still unknown. Oh and Mr coop if I got anything wrong please feel free to correct me as I dont have a full grasp of it entirely yet.
    So your telling me that the adrenals are the only organ that can't be over worked?
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    So your telling me that the adrenals are the only organ that can't be over worked?
    again, look at a patient with cushings. Their adrenals receive a constant stimulus and kick out cortisol almost non stop, and they never once get "fatigued" so how is this idea that they are able to become tired?
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    Quote Originally Posted by miniarnold View Post
    Can a simple question be asked that would allow a fairly straight forward answer,
    What causes/can cause adrenal insufficiency?
    Use of stims then stopping them, ongoing stress, poor sleep, sh***y diet and lifestyle, or is the cause not that easy?
    What you'll come to learn is that there are basically a ton of things that can cause this.

    Like Josh mentioned with Cushing's, you could have an adenoma that causes all of this. All it takes is one thing getting screwed up in the body to make a bunch of other things messed up, as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    here is where the problem begins. It is the idea that your adrenals have the ability to get tired, fatigued or overworked. This is simply not true and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that it is even a possibility.

    Think about a patient who has cushing. Their adrenals will kick out enormous amounts of cortisol almost non stop and not once do they "get tired". So let me the ask, if someones adrenals with cushings, which is reciving a constant stimulus, and their adrenals continue to function just fine, what makes you think it is possible for our adrenals to get fatigued?

    Adrenal fatigue is more then just a mislabel because along with this term comes the idea that if you give them a "rest" somehow everything will get better. Now is it possible for someone to have a adrenal insufficiency? Absolutely and it is called addisons disease but more than likely when someone uses the horrible term "adrenal fatigue" they are usually describing HPA dysfunction. When this happens, yes the body can stop naturally producing enough hormones BUT it isnt because the adrenals are tired but usually a deeper underlying cause which is causing something to become out of balance and if I remember correctly the typical treatment given for this is glucocorticoids but even then it has had a fairly limited success rate. As coop said this is relatively new and there are still many unanswered questions.

    Think of it this way (is steroid terms )
    I am going to try and compare the HPA axis to the HPTA

    Here we have you HPA axis


    Now my understanding of it is the hypothalamus will sense serum cortisol and modulate CRH/ACTH output in so to keep glucocortcoid levels constant.

    Now to compare this to the HPTA


    the way this works is somewhat similar, the hypothalamus releases GnHR and GHRH to our pituitary which in turn releases LH and FSH to the testes which release the testosterone.

    Now with HPA dysfunction, it is not that the adrenals become "fatigued" but it is that a mechanism exists by which adrenal response is chronically down-regulated (usually after a prolonged period of stress) and this mechanism as far as I know has yet to be identified (although there are some theories floating about).

    Now back to the HPTA comparison, with HPA dysfunction basically something is out of wack and you end up with a low hypothalamic CRH production which leads to low cortisol production. Now lets compare to someone whose HPTA is out of wack shall we. We all know that when coming off a cycle of exogenous androgens our body down regulates testosterone production (via negative feedback of the androgens). What we end up with is too many androgen receptors of the hypothalamus have become activated so there is a decrease in GnRH release which ultimately equals a decrease in testosterone production.

    Now that said, does anything in the HPTA become "fatigued"? Or is it there was a disruption of the balance (i.e the introduction of exogenous androgens)? Would the solution to low test be to give your testes or leydig cells a rest? No it wont be, the solution is to somehow stimulate GnHR release. So if the solution to low test output isnt rest then why is the solution to low adrenal output that it needs rest?

    The main problem with HPA dysfunction is we dont know exactly what the mechanism for adrenal fatigue is. Again, as Coop said above , the developments in the understanding in all of this is fairly recent and there is much that is still unknown. Oh and Mr coop if I got anything wrong please feel free to correct me as I dont have a full grasp of it entirely yet.


    still seems like semantics in your last point with HPTA (exogeneous hormones --->low test output), the consequent brought about by a causal influence may not be straightforward "fatigue" but nonetheless is brought about by the presence of stimulants (hypothetically speaking of course-if there was a correlation stimulant ---> (effect of non-optimally performing adrenals or dysfunction)

    if there was a correlation, it may be like in the case of steroids where a mere pause isn't sufficient, but adding in auxillary compound will provide pct, or it may be refraining altogether (this is all hypothetical-haven't read studies or familiar with the work)

    idk though-interesting stuff- haven't read the studies and all of that
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    I am stim free other than coffee in the morning. I am working 14-16 hour days, plus added life stressors. I am tired, lack of motovation, irritable. I was thinking maybe and anti-cortisol supplement. I am not going prescription drug route.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
    I am stim free other than coffee in the morning. I am working 14-16 hour days, plus added life stressors. I am tired, lack of motovation, irritable. I was thinking maybe and anti-cortisol supplement. I am not going prescription drug route.
    Have you had any tests done?

    In all honesty, those side effects could accompany a large number of things, so it could be more than an adrenal issue (could be low test, decreased dopamine or serotonin, etc.).
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    nice thread,keep it coming.
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    No tests. Didn't think it was that complicated. Just run down a little.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
    Just run down a little.
    Why not just try some sort of adaptogen? rhodia rosea and ashwaganda are 2 that come to mind
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
    No tests. Didn't think it was that complicated. Just run down a little.
    When it comes to the level of how complicated: it is and it isn't. lol

    Chances are, it's what you think it is. From the sound of your work schedule, it sounds like you could benefit from some extra sleep and relaxation time. I only bring this up, because those symptoms are so common among a plethora of things.

    And Josh brings up a good point on the adpatagens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Why not just try some sort of adaptogen? rhodia rosea and ashwaganda are 2 that come to mind
    Will These natural herbals will help with adrenal insufficiency?

    Can adrenal insufficiency be caused by just using stim thyroid hormones or is the cause usually more complex?

    Interesting topic.
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    Facepalm
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Facepalm
    Is that carried on NP?

    ...oh, wait...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Facepalm
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    Take Ascorbic Acid Vitamin C
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