Endosurge/Erase/DAA 8 week Run! First natty stack....

[Drizzie88]

Hey guys... Names Caleb and I'm starting my first Natty Test Boost/AI stack this week. It's a pretty common stack, nothing major or exciting but I'm really looking forward to the cycle and to see if I can gain size and strength... Not sure if my goals are far fetched, but the goals I have set for myself are 6-8 lbs of mass and 5-10% increases on the three major compound lifts--squat, deadlift, flat bench chest...

My starts are 68"/178lbs/23 years old/12% BF/
I have been lifting for 4 years off and on...Been lifting seriously again for 10 months (6 of which I spent in the Middle East in 135+ degree heat working out in a tent...) Didn't see the gains I wanted to downrange but I got into really good shape and cut my body fat down. It's easy to burn calories when you work outside in that temperature and I ran fasted in that heat (100+ at night) when I woke up for night shift.

Going to run an eight week natty stack that looks like this. I am open to opinions if people think this could be changed.

BPS Endosurge 2/2/2 (6AM, PWO 3PM, 9PM) 6 weeks
Erase--50/50/75/75/75/75/50/50 want to start out at 50mg a day to see if I get any of the negative sides like joint pain.
DAA--3G in the morning with my breakfast.

Staples
OptiMen Multi Vitamin
Fish oil
BCAAs
IDS Smart Gainer (620 cal/63g protein/95g Carbs)
Optimum Nutrition Casein (120 cal/24g protein/3g carbs)

Pre workout
C4...if a stim is needed...normally I take it on days I'm tired after work and on legs day..if not I just drink some BCAAsand carbs.
GlycoMaize complex carbs
Taurine 4.5g

I'm also thinking about adding in joint support if I see any sides from Erase.

 

[Drizzie88]

Stats

This week I'm going to get a better baseline for my 1 Rep Max on all my compound lifts...But here is what I know for sure

Bench 315lbs X2
Deadlift 345 lbs X2
Squat 365 lbs X2
Shoulder Press (using Smith Machine) 205lbs X2
Clean and Press 135 X2 (still learning the lift--been doing it for 5 weeks and I still feel like my form is lacking)

I use the Smith Machine for Shoulder press because I injured my rotator cuff two years ago and it still gives me trouble sometimes.

I will post my workout on here in a couple days if anyone is interested. I want to keep a pretty detailed log because I know it will hold me more accountable to my goals...

 

[RJW719]

Thats a nice stack, should treat ya well.

 

[LiveToLift]

Is your daa dose about an hour before your workout time? I've heard that is the best for results. Nice stack for sure, you should see some good results bro!

 

[Drizzie88]

Is your daa dose about an hour before your workout time? I've heard that is the best for results. Nice stack for sure, you should see some good results bro!

I've been taking it first thing in the morning... Have to look into that ...

Thanks. I've only been running the DAA for three days...starting the rest endosurge tonight before bed and Erase tomorrow .

 

[mr.cooper69]

Swap out Optimen for a better alternative (SN Life Force Multiple).
Dose taurine at 4g preworkout
Drop the Glutamine
Casein isn't necessary at night fyi

Keep DAA at 3g. Curious as to how you are dosing Erase in 10mg intervals.

Pick up some monohydrate and beta-alanine. There's really no reason not to use them.

 

[D3Baseball]

Swap out Optimen for a better alternative (SN Life Force Multiple).
Dose taurine at 4g preworkout
Drop the Glutamine
Casein isn't necessary at night fyi

Keep DAA at 3g. Curious as to how you are dosing Erase in 10mg intervals.

Pick up some monohydrate and beta-alanine. There's really no reason not to use them.

I like good advice

 

[Drizzie88]

Swap out Optimen for a better alternative (SN Life Force Multiple).
Dose taurine at 4g preworkout
Drop the Glutamine
Casein isn't necessary at night fyi

Keep DAA at 3g. Curious as to how you are dosing Erase in 10mg intervals.

Pick up some monohydrate and beta-alanine. There's really no reason not to use them.

1) what's wrong w optimen? They are one of the few multis I can take without feeling sick....but I will look into sn life....
2) thank you for this info!
3) I read a study that said Glutamine was worthless more or less...why does it keep getting hype as such an awesome recovery aid?
4) I mix a casein and whey shake at night because i eat dinner 2 hrs before bed usually. Just how my schedule is...so I mx a shake to get my macros for the day and it helps me feel more full before bed...may not be necessary, but it can't hurt can it?
5) DAA at 3G...
6) because I'm a retard and put the wrong Rosing...I edited my original post--nice catch.
7) I have monohydrate...and my smart gainer has 3G in it also...I'll add it. Going to look into some beta-an aline his payday.

Thanks for the suggestions btw.

 

[Drizzie88]

1) what's wrong w optimen? They are one of the few multis I can take without feeling sick....but I will look into sn life....
2) thank you for this info!
3) I read a study that said Glutamine was worthless more or less...why does it keep getting hype as such an awesome recovery aid?
4) I mix a casein and whey shake at night because i eat dinner 2 hrs before bed usually. Just how my schedule is...so I mx a shake to get my macros for the day and it helps me feel more full before bed...may not be necessary, but it can't hurt can it?
5) DAA at 3G...
6) because I'm a retard and put the wrong Dosing...I edited my original post--nice catch.
7) I have monohydrate...and my smart gainer has 3G in it also...I'll add it. Going to look into some beta-an aline his payday.

Thanks for the suggestions btw.

...

 

[mr.cooper69]

1. Optimen uses very poor vitamin and mineral forms. For a sligthly higher price, you get a multivitamin that actually provides benefits.
2. No problem
3. People fall for placebo all the time. The amount of research disproving glutamine's effects on recovery is overwhelming. Don't bother. Plus, at 4 calories per gram, I wouldn't waste my dietary protein allotments on non-essential amino acids.
4. Good that you recognize it's all about macros. Won't hurt one bit.
5. It says 3.5g in your OP. Keep it at 3g.
6. lol
7. Check out SNS beta-alanine caps. Emerging research shows that taking too much BA at once leads to disproportional excretion. This isn't what we want, so caps allow you to space out your BA doses throughout the day for optimal intake.

 

[Drizzie88]

1. Optimen uses very poor vitamin and mineral forms. For a sligthly higher price, you get a multivitamin that actually provides benefits.
2. No problem
3. People fall for placebo all the time. The amount of research disproving glutamine's effects on recovery is overwhelming. Don't bother. Plus, at 4 calories per gram, I wouldn't waste my dietary protein allotments on non-essential amino acids.
4. Good that you recognize it's all about macros. Won't hurt one bit.
5. It says 3.5g in your OP. Keep it at 3g.
6. lol
7. Check out SNS beta-alanine caps. Emerging research shows that taking too much BA at once leads to disproportional excretion. This isn't what we want, so caps allow you to space out your BA doses throughout the day for optimal intake.

Yeah. I will look into the multi vitamin issue.. Sucks because I just traded an entire thing of animal packs for the opti...my workout partner bought it and it messed up his gut and animal packs does the same to me so we traded...oops. Got the sh!t end of that deal.

I will get those caps Wednesday...I like the benefits of BA...it seems like a hidden gem. I ave ever heard about using it until I joined anabolic minds...I love this forum.

 

[Drizzie88]

Day 1 of Endosurge and Erase (Day 3 of DAA)...

Workout Chest
Had to start with decline which we don't do very often... I am trying to build my upper chest to match my lower chest which is a lot bigger so we stick to incline and flat more often... Anyways...
Decline 135x20; 185x10; 225x8; 275x4; 315x2
Flat 225x10; 245x8; 275x4; 275x4; 315x1
Incline Smith Machine 135x15; 185x8; 195x8; 215x6 235x2 (I say these numbers assuming the bar weighs 45 which I don't think it does)... So 225 would equal 2 plates each side...whatever that is for Smith, I'm still not sure...
Incline Flys 40x10; 40x10; 45x8; 45x8; 55x4 (PR)
HammerStrenght Incline chest machine 90x10; 100x4; 110x2 (hit a wall at the end)

Also got 10 sets of Bis in...
Hit a PR for Hammer Curls but I think it's because we never do hammers first and my arms were fresh 45x8, 45x8, 50x6, 50x4 (+2 cheaters), 55x2 (+2 cheaters)
Wide Grip EZ bar 30kg x10, 35kg x10, 35 x8 40kg x6, 45kg x4 (2 were cheaters)

I am still a little confused on how I should be taking these supps... I am taking the EndoSurge in the morning 15 mins before breakfast then I take my first (of 2 right now) dose of Erase two hours later...Then at luch I take another EndoSurge (which I think I should be waiting on) then pre workout (2-4 hours later) I took my last dose of Erase for the day...Now in an hour I'm going to take the last does of Endosurge right before bed.

Time frame looks like this Endo 6am, Erase 8-9am, Endo 1pm, Erase 4pm, Endo 9-10pm depending on when I get done at the gym... Does this seem right? And when I bump my Erase up to three pills where should I take it? Veterans, HELP!

Figuring out my calorie intake right now...will post that in a bit. This stack is going to be very calorie dependent. I am always afraid I don't get my Macros so I downloaded LiveStrong calorie counter App for my iPad...Only because it had the highest reviews in the App store. It's pretty good though, I'm impressed with it. I calculated my breakfast before I went to work and it was 999 calories...

 

[LiveToLift]

Smith difference is the bar is 15 not 45 from what I've been told.

 

[Drizzie88]

Tracked my calories...

According to the calculator I hit 3850 calories... 40% from carbs ~30% protein 30% fats...

Still trying to figure out how many grams of protein I ate... The application seems like it's for weight loss more than weight gain...

Thanks for the info lift

 

[nattydisaster]

Almost 4000 cals - sweet!

 

[Drizzie88]

Looking at runnning AnaBeta after this...what do you recommend I stack it with (if anything) and...any good deals?

 

[John33]

If you follow a balanced diet, you do not need to take vitamins. I would just take fish oil and vitamin D. Also, I would only do DAA and Erase.

 

[nattydisaster]

Looking at runnning AnaBeta after this...what do you recommend I stack it with (if anything) and...any good deals?

AnaBeta + PRIME is getting good feedback

 

[R1balla]

AnaBeta + PRIME is getting good feedback

Yeah I ran this right when anabeta first came out. As long as you respond to prime, you will see great gains. Users should get two bottles of prime at 69 protocol though

 

[rhgunner]

3850 total kcal X 30% protein = 1155 kcal protein/4 kcal(protein 4kcal/gram)=288.8 grams of protein

 

[Drizzie88]

3850 total kcal X 30% protein = 1155 kcal protein/4 kcal(protein 4kcal/gram)=288.8 grams of protein

You are a smarter man than I...Thank you for that. I'll start using that. I don't think that calculator is very accurate on some things...because I literally cooked a 12 oz Beef in the crock pot with a can of baked beans yesterday...Plus had 80 grams of protein worth of weight gainer and breakfast shake.

288 grams of protein isn't enough. I'm going to have to step up my game!

 

[Drizzie88]

3773 calories today (once I take my weight gainer) 51%C/32%P/18%F

I'll tell you...it may be the placebo effect because I don't think anything can be effective in two days but doing deadlifts today, I felt great..hit 365 on sixth set from the ground... hit 315 for four clean reps good form which is a PR for me at that weight...At least for good clean reps. I would have been able to get like 2 more but my workout partner distracted me mid set... He was like "Jesus dude" meaning "wow you have never done this" but I took it as "Jesus dude, your form is bad" because we really watch eachothers form since I've had a previous back injury and I never want to repeat that again...so I set the weight down and he was like good reps man, great form... what the ef.

 

[nattydisaster]

Could be placebo...but you wouldnt be the first person to think it started working that fast

 

[Drizzie88]

Could be placebo...but you wouldnt be the first person to think it started working that fast

I don't feel nearly as sore after doing 6 sets of deadlifts and matching my max....last week I was sore as heck...this week I am just a little tight in the lower back area... I'm going to like this stack a lot I think...

To the guy saying I should just run DAA and Erase...what's your logic behind this? Just curious.

 

[Resolve]

Here!

 

[Drizzie88]

Shoulders day... hit a PR for clean and press. 15 pounds more than I've ever done before...160x2 on my fourth set. I think some of this might have to do with the fact that before we were starting with a very high rep 15-20 warmup and then a set of 10 on the next set...by the time I got to high weight, I was so exhausted I couldn't even lift plates.

Had a guy ask me in the gym today what I was taking and how much I weighed...I told him 178... He said "man how are you so big at 178" then I told him for the low price of $34 at Nutraplanet he could get what I'm getting ...Nutraplanet owes me some rep points or something...Well PES and BPS too.

 

[Drizzie88]

Hell yeah! Day three tracking calories... 3978 calories with 298 grams of protein at least! 48/30/22 ratio...

 

[delsolrob]

I like this stack, ran something similar about a year back...worked well for me.

 

[stxnas]

Ah, so this is where everybody went! :lol:

 

[Resolve]

Shoulders day... hit a PR for clean and press. 15 pounds more than I've ever done before...160x2 on my fourth set. I think some of this might have to do with the fact that before we were starting with a very high rep 15-20 warmup and then a set of 10 on the next set...by the time I got to high weight, I was so exhausted I couldn't even lift plates.

Had a guy ask me in the gym today what I was taking and how much I weighed...I told him 178... He said "man how are you so big at 178" then I told him for the low price of $34 at Nutraplanet he could get what I'm getting ...Nutraplanet owes me some rep points or something...Well PES and BPS too.

Getting asked that by other people in the gym is always a morale boost. Recently, I made a girl gasp and exclaim, "Why would anyone want to be that big?" Made my day

 

[Drizzie88]

Getting asked that by other people in the gym is always a morale boost. Recently, I made a girl gasp and exclaim, "Why would anyone want to be that big?" Made my day

Yeah definitely made me feel more confident... Especially because I'm far from the weight I want to be before I start my first cutting cycle,.. I need to get to 195 (+17 lbs)

 

[Resolve]

Yeah definitely made me feel more confident... Especially because I'm far from the weight I want to be before I start my first cutting cycle,.. I need to get to 195 (+17 lbs)

A good goal - just take your time in getting there. You don't want to gain 15lb of fat and 2 of muscle; slow and clean is the way to bulk.

 

[Drizzie88]

A good goal - just take your time in getting there. You don't want to gain 15lb of fat and 2 of muscle; slow and clean is the way to bulk.

Since October, I've put 15 lbs on with 12% bodyfat...

 

[Resolve]

Since October, I've put 15 lbs on with 12% bodyfat...

Impressive :thumbsup:

 

[Jahcuree]

So drizzle, no weight gain up to this point?

 

[kevinhy]

Shoulders day... hit a PR for clean and press. 15 pounds more than I've ever done before...160x2 on my fourth set. I think some of this might have to do with the fact that before we were starting with a very high rep 15-20 warmup and then a set of 10 on the next set...by the time I got to high weight, I was so exhausted I couldn't even lift plates.

Had a guy ask me in the gym today what I was taking and how much I weighed...I told him 178... He said "man how are you so big at 178" then I told him for the low price of $34 at Nutraplanet he could get what I'm getting ...Nutraplanet owes me some rep points or something...Well PES and BPS too.

I get that question all the time.

"Hey bro whatre you like 225?"

When i lean down to a lower body weight is when the questions start rolling in.

 

[Drizzie88]

So drizzle, no weight gain up to this point?

Sadly not this week...I've hit 3700+ calories all week with an average 40/35/25 ratio... I weighed myself today and I was 176... But that's the weight I came back from Rome at...vacation was brutal to my gains... I feel like my muscles are harder and I'm seeing some vascularity when work out which I have never had...I will take some pics after arms day and we can compare...

Strength gains are coming but the weight stayed the same...maybe gained a pound at most... long way from the 6-8 I'm hoping for!

 

[Drizzie88]

On another note..talked to a guy today who is on epistane but didn't know what PCT was...he thought it was a supplement... Sent him the link to man beasts Save yo nuts thread... Why do people do such stupid ****?

 

[stxnas]

Wow, that's some decent gains this past year, Drizzie. Keep doing whatever you're doing!

 

[Drizzie88]

Wow, that's some decent gains this past year, Drizzie. Keep doing whatever you're doing!

178 at 12% bf has been my peak but it was all natural...literally protein and BCAAs...so I'm hoping this stack will help me reach something close to my natural potential ... I'm interested to see if I can make 190 within 3-4 months...

On an update...

Legs day hit 365x2 on fifth set which is what I hit last week...but it was easier this week and I hit a lower full rep for sure...hit five plates on leg press but jumped up to six and nearly failed and killed myself...luckily my workout partner and another guy helped get the weight up..6 plates on fifth set of leg press after five sets of squats was risky anyways... However, I maxed out the hack squat machine...so I lowered the safety stop to the second to lowest notch and still maxed the hack squat machine for two full reps..guess I'm just going to have to try and do more reps for my final sets...

As for aggression...it's really high... Been holding in some aggression I've had against this as$hole I've worked with for two years...today it blew like Mt. St. Helens and we had to shut the door to my bosses office because the entire shop was like WTF...it was on like donkey kong...

Arms tomorrow..then some pics... I think I can post pics now...when I started this thread I didn't have enough posts...

 

[Drizzie88]

Arms went well..hammer curled 45x8...that's something I haven't done as easily as today. I had little motivation in the gym today but still had a very good workout... 4 workouts of 5 sets for Bis and the same for tris....

Checked my weight today... 176.

For the first week of tracking my macros...did pretty good..hopefully next week I will see some good gains in strength and weight...isn't that the normal consensus? Week two is where most ppl see gains starting ....

 

[stxnas]

There's a lot of that is involved with "seeing gains." I know that similar products/stacks start to illicit tangible results in the first 10-14 days. Time will tell!

 

[Drizzie88]

There's a lot of that is involved with "seeing gains." I know that similar products/stacks start to illicit tangible results in the first 10-14 days. Time will tell!

By gains....I meant strength, dryness, size...everything

 

[nattydisaster]

Arms went well..hammer curled 45x8...that's something I haven't done as easily as today. I had little motivation in the gym today but still had a very good workout... 4 workouts of 5 sets for Bis and the same for tris....

Checked my weight today... 176.

For the first week of tracking my macros...did pretty good..hopefully next week I will see some good gains in strength and weight...isn't that the normal consensus? Week two is where most ppl see gains starting ....

Nice...strength gains wont be instant. Even steroids wont make you stronger in 1 week

 

[Drizzie88]

Nice...strength gains wont be instant. Even steroids wont make you stronger in 1 week

Lol..but everyone thinks they will... I tell you what...the mind has a lot to do with strength..the placebo effect of anything can make you push yourself harder... I hit 3 PRs this week alone...not because of sups but bc I think I pushed myself harder as a whole.

 

[LiveToLift]

Nice...strength gains wont be instant. Even steroids wont make you stronger in 1 week

Correction, sdrol will!!! But, yes I agree 10-14 days is the sweet spot for most supplements.

 

[Drizzie88]

Correction, sdrol will!!! But, yes I agree 10-14 days is the sweet spot for most supplements.

Hmm... Maybe that's my next log... Lol maybe not yet...I've got other plans next...

 

[Resolve]

Lol..but everyone thinks they will... I tell you what...the mind has a lot to do with strength..the placebo effect of anything can make you push yourself harder... I hit 3 PRs this week alone...not because of sups but bc I think I pushed myself harder as a whole.

Well done :clap2:

 

[Drizzie88]

Well done :clap2:

Thanks...if that wasn't sarcastic? Can't tell online sometimes. I've definitely revamped my nutrition which was probably killing any chance of gains beyond where I was...at least size wise...what I thought was good nutrition wasn't... Now I'm eating fairly clean and tons of food...today was the worst I've done and I still hit 3400

 

[Drizzie88]

I know it's a little late to get a baseline but I'm going to the doctor on Tuesday to see about some blood tests...would like to get test levels now and then try again at the end of the cycle and make sure everything else is g2g for a different cycle for a different section.