any REAL vasodilator supps?

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    any REAL vasodilator supps?


    with everything ive heard about arginine pretty much being a scam over the past few years, im wondering if there are any supplements out there that actually DO help with vasodilation. ive heard of a few, but nothing that people really report much on.

    this is kind of a two-fold question as i love good pumps, but im also looking for something to add to the mix to help lower my blood pressure (obviously im off pwo's/stims right now until i can hopefully get it lowered). am i wrong about arginine? is there anything else out there that could help me reach these 2 goals that won't counteract the benefits on blood pressure by containing a lot of stimulants (i never could understand the concept of preworkout marketing.... including caffeine and stims which restricts blood flow and saying its a vasodilator)


    just picked up some taurine, but ive yet to try it... any suggestions?


    thanks guy

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    Bulk agmatine works really well. I'm using the Primaforce kind. Tastes like hell though, next time I'll definitely go for some caps.
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    ill check it out, thanks!
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    Yes its called insulin.

    Use Karbolyn or EVogen products to spike insulin with high molecular weight carbs (or any damn weight) + insulinogenic amino acids etc etc....

    Sip DURING your workout and you willbe VERY pumped....the leaner you are , the more cosmetic effect that will take place.

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    I agree with the agmatine statement I love that stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanman31 View Post
    I agree with the agmatine statement I love that stuff
    3rd or maybe some SlinSane it works for me I get all veiny everywhere lol
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    I agree with the agmatine statement I love that stuff
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    Anecdotal evidence seems to have most people leaning towards Agmatine for pumps (Not gonna lie I LOVE the stuff and do feel it pumps me up, but I do not believe I have seen any studies to back this up yet).

    Maybe also look into a product containing nitrates. Thermolife seems to be the top of the line when it comes to those type of products, but you may find some other companies have good options (like SAN's creatine nitrate containing products for example).
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    i get a nice pump from anabeta and creatine nitrate
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla
    i get a nice pump from anabeta and creatine nitrate
    Both are great for pumps. Pumps from anabeta are sick!
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    Don't nitrates have some blood pressure lowering affect?

    Also, I learned the hard way that Perform lowers bp. By itself it is safe, just don't stack it w other bp lowering supps. Lol
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    thanks for the suggestions, i think i need to get some agmatine

    flex - ill look into perform as well.... after 2.5 weeks of celery seed and hawthorn berry, ive seen no change in BP (it actually read a few points higher today than the day i started) with the exception of 1 weird day where it was low. but ive heard these things take time, so ill probably hold off on the perform until ive had this stuff in my system for 6 weeks or so
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponysteak View Post
    Bulk agmatine works really well. I'm using the Primaforce kind. Tastes like hell though, next time I'll definitely go for some caps.
    I was looking into the caps myself. What kind of results do you have. I am a former competitive powerlifter so I have alot more fat compared to the bodybuilder, ie, I dont have that lean of a physique. I am interested in some nice pumps and vascularity. I am presently using Thermolife Ebol, which gives me good pumps, and **** N2Amp, which gives me really good vascularity. Anyway, I am always looking to try new supps, and I have heard some positive feedback about this..SJ
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    I logged creatine nitrate and anabeta a while back. Loved the pumps and the good thing is they started with the first dose of anabeta in the morning then when I added CN as pre workout, the pumps just got sick nasty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86
    thanks for the suggestions, i think i need to get some agmatine

    flex - ill look into perform as well.... after 2.5 weeks of celery seed and hawthorn berry, ive seen no change in BP (it actually read a few points higher today than the day i started) with the exception of 1 weird day where it was low. but ive heard these things take time, so ill probably hold off on the perform until ive had this stuff in my system for 6 weeks or so
    I've also read that cherry juice is supposed to? Haven't really looked into it so I don't know if it's concentrate or what.
    And I also learned the hard way that cialis can lower it too.
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    alot of "pump" products are scams though. its funny cause it says its an NO product that are known for pumps but one main ingredient in it is caffeine which is a vasoconstrictor
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    There are a few things that come to mind. As stated, nitrates would be perfect for your case, and agmatine is certainly an option; it has been shown to significantly reduce blood pressure when administered intravenously, however, when orally dosed I am unsure. Icariin, found in Perform, is a PDE5 inhibitor, so that would work in both cases as well. There's also citrulline, which increases endogenous NO, and has been shown to lower systolic blood pressure.

    Take your pick
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    I think a good NO bolster is rpm and drive. Mix in some v02 ultra, and some purple wraath. Done
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponysteak
    Bulk agmatine works really well. I'm using the Primaforce kind. Tastes like hell though, next time I'll definitely go for some caps.
    Pick.up some.agmatine. Its truly.one.of.my favorites.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    alot of "pump" products are scams though. its funny cause it says its an NO product that are known for pumps but one main ingredient in it is caffeine which is a vasoconstrictor
    Its a vasodilator as well though in small doses. It only cause vasoconstriction in super doses.See: Caffeine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Caffeine breaks down into different compounds. One of which is Theobromine: Theobromine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia read up some, its always good stuff to know. Caffeine is likely where most of the pumps come from in products that also contain arginine.
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    Have you ever tried hemoval? It is the best pump/vasodilater I've ever tried. It has agmatine in it as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigintensions
    Have you ever tried hemoval? It is the best pump/vasodilater I've ever tried. It has agmatine in it as well
    Agmatine only good with carbs they say. I'm a low carber (less than 80g a day)
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMMA View Post
    There are a few things that come to mind. As stated, nitrates would be perfect for your case, and agmatine is certainly an option; it has been shown to significantly reduce blood pressure when administered intravenously, however, when orally dosed I am unsure. Icariin, found in Perform, is a PDE5 inhibitor, so that would work in both cases as well. There's also citrulline, which increases endogenous NO, and has been shown to lower systolic blood pressure.

    Take your pick
    as stubborn as my BP has been recently (no significant change despite starting a cardio regimen again about a month ago, damn near cutting out sodium altogether, plus the hawthorn berry and celery seed for the past few weeks), i feel like i need a BP reducing ****tail haha. im thinking olive leaf extract 1gxday, taurine 3xday (have both on hand), some agmatine, and some nitrates.

    i actually mentioned nitrates in another thread. since my bp has been up, ive cut out preworkouts which is MISERABLE, and was wondering if something like c4 would be helpful as it may give me energy without increasing my bp due to the creatine nitrate (just my thinking, no science behind that haha)
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    Agmatine and citrulline malate. Buckets, bro.
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    Arginine definitely gets a bad rap.. mostly from people who under dose it... I have honestly replaced my prescription of atenelol bp medication with 15-20 grams of arginine stacked with 7.5 - 10 grams of ornithine a day, taken on an empty stomach.... there's research that shows a significant gh release when taken in a 2:1 ratio at this level and my bp is averaging 124/70... was 150/90 before starting on medication .... when I stop the arginine it jumps back up so I am convinced it works.... I buy 2.2 pound tubs of bulk arginine on amazon.... I don't care what anyone says,,, it works for me!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVNEGS

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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    as stubborn as my BP has been recently (no significant change despite starting a cardio regimen again about a month ago, damn near cutting out sodium altogether, plus the hawthorn berry and celery seed for the past few weeks), i feel like i need a BP reducing ****tail haha. im thinking olive leaf extract 1gxday, taurine 3xday (have both on hand), some agmatine, and some nitrates.

    i actually mentioned nitrates in another thread. since my bp has been up, ive cut out preworkouts which is MISERABLE, and was wondering if something like c4 would be helpful as it may give me energy without increasing my bp due to the creatine nitrate (just my thinking, no science behind that haha)
    lol @ the first half of ****tail being blocked out.

    Olive leaf extract and taurine are both solid choices, as is agmatine and nitrates.

    It's not absolutely necessary to cut out all pre-workouts with the thought that caffeine will raise your blood pressure (assuming that is your thought), as exercise induced vasodilation negates caffeine's capacity to cause vasoconstriction, and while there generally are other ingredients in preworkouts that can increase your blood pressure at rest, many preworkouts on the market include vasodilators with the ability to reduce your blood pressure. I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless you notice a large spike in your blood pressure when using a certain pre.

    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Arginine definitely gets a bad rap.. mostly from people who under dose it... I have honestly replaced my prescription of atenelol bp medication with 15-20 grams of arginine stacked with 7.5 - 10 grams of ornithine a day, taken on an empty stomach.... there's research that shows a significant gh release when taken in a 2:1 ratio at this level and my bp is averaging 124/70... was 150/90 before starting on medication .... when I stop the arginine it jumps back up so I am convinced it works.... I buy 2.2 pound tubs of bulk arginine on amazon.... I don't care what anyone says,,, it works for me!!!
    Arginine gets bad rap due to the fact it's generally marketed as a NO enhancer, when in fact it is not.
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    Viagra... cheaper than any otc supplement, and 100x more effective
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87
    Viagra... cheaper than any otc supplement, and 100x more effective
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    Lol... that's why you take it with 1,3dmaa.... there's no chance of wood lmfao
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMMA View Post
    lol @ the first half of ****tail being blocked out.

    Olive leaf extract and taurine are both solid choices, as is agmatine and nitrates.

    It's not absolutely necessary to cut out all pre-workouts with the thought that caffeine will raise your blood pressure (assuming that is your thought), as exercise induced vasodilation negates caffeine's capacity to cause vasoconstriction, and while there generally are other ingredients in preworkouts that can increase your blood pressure at rest, many preworkouts on the market include vasodilators with the ability to reduce your blood pressure. I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless you notice a large spike in your blood pressure when using a certain pre.



    Arginine gets bad rap due to the fact it's generally marketed as a NO enhancer, when in fact it is not.
    yeah, honestly, i never noticed an increase in blood pressure while on PWO's. my BP has always been borderline, so everytime id start a new pwo id check it every couple weeks and never had a problem. i guess i just assumed i should stay away from them because of a possible spike right after taking them coupled with the increase in BP you get while working out, as i always checked mine several hours after working out/the pwo was out of my system.
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    High dosed Coq10 lowers BP as well but costs $$$ compared to some of the other options.

    I've read Hawthorne berry first raises BP before it lowers it. Couldn't find what thread i read it in but I remember they posted some kind of research on the subject. I had BP issues for a while too and used creatine nitrate 1.8g and CoQ10 200mg/day. Beet root extract is another nitrate source too, may be cheaper than creatine nitrate since you can't get it in bulk anymore.
    :blindfold:
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    Deff give the kwick carb/bcaa a shot and some hemavol!
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    SNS Agmatine has probably given me the best vascularity out of any single ingredient I've used. That said, nitrates and citrulline are also fantastic pump ingredients, so pick your poison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMMA

    lol @ the first half of ****tail being blocked out.

    Olive leaf extract and taurine are both solid choices, as is agmatine and nitrates.

    It's not absolutely necessary to cut out all pre-workouts with the thought that caffeine will raise your blood pressure (assuming that is your thought), as exercise induced vasodilation negates caffeine's capacity to cause vasoconstriction, and while there generally are other ingredients in preworkouts that can increase your blood pressure at rest, many preworkouts on the market include vasodilators with the ability to reduce your blood pressure. I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless you notice a large spike in your blood pressure when using a certain pre.

    Arginine gets bad rap due to the fact it's generally marketed as a NO enhancer, when in fact it is not.
    I take it for the bp lowering effect primarily and as a gh booster secondarily
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    Quick List of Vasodilators:
    insulin/high glycemic carbs
    icariin
    AAKG
    Ag Sulfate
    osthole (makes some people ill though)
    olive leaf extract
    citrulline
    cre nitrate or any other nitrate
    fish oil
    PDE5 Inhibitors (Cialis, Viagra, etc.)
    forskolin (even though it counteracts insulin @ cellular level)
    grape seed extract
    pycogenol
    arginine in general
    L-Norvaline
    Niacin
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Quick List of Vasodilators:
    insulin/high glycemic carbs
    icariin
    AAKG
    Ag Sulfate
    osthole (makes some people ill though)
    olive leaf extract
    citrulline
    cre nitrate or any other nitrate
    fish oil
    PDE5 Inhibitors (Cialis, Viagra, etc.)
    forskolin (even though it counteracts insulin @ cellular level)
    grape seed extract
    pycogenol
    arginine in general
    L-Norvaline
    Niacin

    so based on this, i have come up with a stack:

    Viagra + Bio Mend + Fish Oil + Free Test + Creatine Nitrate. bam. ill be pumped as heck and have a boner for a week.
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    I would leave the Viagra out of it- too many vasdilators can cut your BP too low= day ruiner- see the thread about the guy who thought his face was going to explode
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Don't nitrates have some blood pressure lowering affect?

    Also, I learned the hard way that Perform lowers bp. By itself it is safe, just don't stack it w other bp lowering supps. Lol
    ^^^ It was this guy right hurrr.

    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    I would leave the Viagra out of it- too many vasdilators can cut your BP too low= day ruiner- see the thread about the guy who thought his face was going to explode
    I think he was just kidding but if not, i wouldn't do mix viagra w/ CN either. Sounds like a brew for a massive headache, fainting spell or in fl3x's case FACE EXPLOSION.
    :blindfold:
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80
    I would leave the Viagra out of it- too many vasdilators can cut your BP too low= day ruiner- see the thread about the guy who thought his face was going to explode
    Huh??? Hehe
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