any REAL vasodilator supps?

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    I've been using arginine for 15 years as a precursor for gh release ..... I am new to body building and have a dumb question,,,,, I've read that getting "pump" serves no real purpose other than boosting the ego.....is there any truth to this,,, and if not, what physiological benefit does the "pump" serve?

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    If there's any IF'ers out there...hemavol is a god send working out fasted. I almost am thinking about cutting out stims altogether and just taking 10 grams bcaas/1-2 scoops hemavol pre workout for now on. It's great!
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    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    I've been using arginine for 15 years as a precursor for gh release ..... I am new to body building and have a dumb question,,,,, I've read that getting "pump" serves no real purpose other than boosting the ego.....is there any truth to this,,, and if not, what physiological benefit does the "pump" serve?
    Google Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. There is many benefits to the pump...is it the end all end all thing to strive for? I would say no. I think progressive overload is something that should be focused on...but varying your rep ranges, aka getting a pump, has it's place. Try doing a widowmaker set (20 reps) at the end of each bodypart and engorge that muscle with blood...then extreme stretch for 60-90 seconds. Try it for a month then tell me if that part grew...
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    Quote Originally Posted by th3futur3
    If there's any IF'ers out there...hemavol is a god send working out fasted. I almost am thinking about cutting out stims altogether and just taking 10 grams bcaas/1-2 scoops hemavol pre workout for now on. It's great!
    I agree! Hemavol is awesome!
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue
    Ingredients that ACTUALLY increase NO:

    Agmatine sulfate
    Citrulline Malate
    GPLC
    Norvaline
    Epimedium
    (so...basically everything HemaVol includes except GPLC)

    Oh, and Arginine when you inject it.
    I'm going to be trying a sample packet of the MuscleTech NanoStim... We will c how good it is...

    Not to mention for PWO I ate about 100g of carbs and 2 hours before that another 80g of carbs and about 4!!! recompadrol!!!!


    We will see what happens
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    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    I've been using arginine for 15 years as a precursor for gh release ..... I am new to body building and have a dumb question,,,,, I've read that getting "pump" serves no real purpose other than boosting the ego.....is there any truth to this,,, and if not, what physiological benefit does the "pump" serve?
    I used to think the same thing about pumps... Now I wish I started focusing on "pumps" a lot sooner. My joints probably wouldn't hurt so much either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop

    I used to think the same thing about pumps... Now I wish I started focusing on "pumps" a lot sooner. My joints probably wouldn't hurt so much either.
    Explain?

    Blood/Nutrients into muscle correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Explain?

    Blood/Nutrients into muscle correct?
    No. Nutrients are delivered just fine to muscles, regardless of the state of your blood vessels. The increase in bloodflow does boost vasoregulatory function, however, which results in true NO boosters serving as ergogenic aids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    No. Nutrients are delivered just fine to muscles, regardless of the state of your blood vessels. The increase in bloodflow does boost vasoregulatory function, however, which results in true NO boosters serving as ergogenic aids.
    Thx
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    Quote Originally Posted by th3futur3 View Post
    If there's any IF'ers out there...hemavol is a god send working out fasted. I almost am thinking about cutting out stims altogether and just taking 10 grams bcaas/1-2 scoops hemavol pre workout for now on. It's great!
    Aren't most stimulants vasoconstrictors anyway? I don't understand the connection you are trying to make with this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Aren't most stimulants vasoconstrictors anyway? I don't understand the connection you are trying to make with this?
    Hemavol doesn't contain stimulants. And no, during exercise caffeine actually acts as a vasodilator [in skeletal muscle], along with a couple other noteworthy CNS stims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Hemavol doesn't contain stimulants. And no, during exercise caffeine actually acts as a vasodilator [in skeletal muscle], along with a couple other noteworthy CNS stims.
    What other noteworthy stims Coopz?
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79

    What other noteworthy stims Coopz?
    What about hemavol and focus factor together? Sound crazy?
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    DO people not understand how important insulin is for "pumps"???

    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    DO people not understand how important insulin is for "pumps"???

    -Matt
    Drop that knowledge bomb on AM Matt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    Drop that knowledge bomb on AM Matt.

    He is quite correct. Heightened insulin levels = pump like whoa
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

    He is quite correct. Heightened insulin levels = pump like whoa
    Eat red velvet cake before and after your work out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Eat red velvet cake before and after your work out?
    = winning upon winning.
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    If you are NOT suffering from insulin resistance and are NOT obese INSULIN will increase blood flow to skeletal muscle. The combination of insulin being spiked + exercising will increase blood flow, oxygen, and many other vital nutrients into muscle cells.

    Leaner people are TYPICALLY more insulin sensitive and will respond well to an insulin spike pre-workout. Fatter people TYPICALLY are more insulin resistant and will NOT respond favorably to an insulin spike.

    -
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    DO people not understand how important insulin is for "pumps"???

    -Matt
    I get the best pumps lifting about an hour to an hour and a half atfer a high complex carb meal and drinking a lotta water. works for me. maybe it has something to do with the insulin.
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    Don't forget nitrates. They're what make Fierce, fierce.
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    Sodium nitrite is a powerful carcinogenic,, are the nitrates we're talking about dangerous as well???
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    Icariin + agmatine + sns Arginine E2 Matrix = honestly the sickest pump and most vascular I have ever been
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    I think a good NO bolster is rpm and drive. Mix in some v02 ultra, and some purple wraath. Done
    X2 for drive and rpm... great combo
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    Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    Sodium nitrate is a powerful carcinogenic,, are the nitrates we're talking about dangerous as well???
    really not carcinogenic when it isn't combined with processed/preserved meats...

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/20...odium-nitrite/
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue

    really not carcinogenic when it isn't combined with processed/preserved meats...

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/20...odium-nitrite/
    The article said it combines with amines to become carcinogenic.... wondering about glutamine ..... it also said to take with c&e, which is something to keep in mind .... sure hate to end up with cancer due to want of a pump,,, lol
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    ^ wrong chemical. The concept is still the same, the reduction potential (and therefore activity) is greater.


    The associated cation has an effect on the reactivity of the compound. In the case of supplements, it's attached to an amino acid, making it a weaker electrolyte. Sodium being a strong electrolyte leads to more free nitrates. THe nitrates break down and form free radicals and oxidize the crap out of everything. Most nitrates with a metal cation will discolor your skin as a result of the anion reacting with the cation, forming the metal oxide.
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    Simple antioxidants should solve it pretty quickly
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    Been looking at several articles on the subject,,, definitely not black and white with regards to whether nitrates are safe or not,,,, just goes to show, we definitely need to do our own research when deciding what to put in our bodies ..... I, for one, try to not take any chemical or supplement that doesn't have at least 10 years of research behind it.... most of what I take, I've been taking for over 20 years
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    People ranted and raved over Nanostim, the company that makes it I'm not a huge fan of, but said hey I'll try it. Forked over my $30 and pumps are ok, it's like once u use something for a bit maybe the body becomes tolerant cuz I've used pump products before.

    Vasotropin looks good but I don't always get a heavy carb mean in before my work out and white blood looks solid, something I def want to try... One good thing about nanostim is it does give u a great focus...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    People ranted and raved over Nanostim, the company that makes it I'm not a huge fan of, but said hey I'll try it. Forked over my $30 and pumps are ok, it's like once u use something for a bit maybe the body becomes tolerant cuz I've used pump products before.

    Vasotropin looks good but I don't always get a heavy carb mean in before my work out and white blood looks solid, something I def want to try... One good thing about nanostim is it does give u a great focus...
    Did you use 2 servings? Also, 3g citrulline isn't going to provide over the top effects by itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Did you use 2 servings? Also, 3g citrulline isn't going to provide over the top effects by itself.
    One time 2 just to see, but been using 4 tabs...

    By itself? What should I take it with? How would u use it? Should I take 5/6 caps?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    One time 2 just to see, but been using 4 tabs...

    By itself? What should I take it with? How would u use it? Should I take 5/6 caps?
    You could, but you may not want to dose higher due to the yohimbe. You could dose with more citrulline, a few more grams depending on how you dose the Nanostim. Alternatively, you could add agmatine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMMA

    You could, but you may not want to dose higher due to the yohimbe. You could dose with more citrulline, a few more grams depending on how you dose the Nanostim. Alternatively, you could add agmatine.
    Not dose agmatine with 4 caps of
    Nanostim right?
    I have AI agmatine
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    This pump talk is getting serious.

    For great pumps without shelling out cash (nothing wrong with doing so just saying)

    Super hydrate your cells with massive fluid intake prior

    ALong w/ high fluid intake increase sodium

    Along w/ high sodium increase glucose polymers

    If you have hormonal assistance everything will just be icing on the cake.

    Na+Cho+h2o+hormones = pumps from hell.

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    yeah, but im trying to avoid sodium as much as possible. i love pumps, but i guess my main question had more to do with me trying to test my theory that i can help lower my BP by using a true vasodilator...

    with that said, i try to stay away from sodium as much as possible (which is hard since i dont really have anywhere to keep food cold at school, so for lunch i have to go SOMEWHERE, and even plain grilled chicken sandwiches or subs from local or chain restaurants are usually LOADED with sodium)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86
    yeah, but im trying to avoid sodium as much as possible. i love pumps, but i guess my main question had more to do with me trying to test my theory that i can help lower my BP by using a true vasodilator...

    with that said, i try to stay away from sodium as much as possible (which is hard since i dont really have anywhere to keep food cold at school, so for lunch i have to go SOMEWHERE, and even plain grilled chicken sandwiches or subs from local or chain restaurants are usually LOADED with sodium)
    You can keep most cooked meats at room temperature throughout the day and eat it with no problem...
    I keep cooked chicken breasts with me all day long in my backpack,,,, as long as it is fully cooked, I should never have an issue ...
    Also, as I've said prior in this thread,,, I take arginine in lieu of blood pressure medicine,,, and it works,,, I had extremely high blood pressure 175/90 and above,,, was put on BP meds.... tried arginine and slowly raised my dose of arginine as I slowly lowered my BP meds until I had 120/70 with arginine alone!!!! I really don't care what science people want to spout or study they want to show me... the proof lies in the BP readings I do daily!!!
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    oh yeah, im definitely gonna give it a shot. right now im experimenting with hawthorn berry and celery seed extract (among other things that are believed to have a more mild effect such as fish oil, magnesium, etc).... but i plan on buying agmatine and arginine to throw in with taurine and olive leaf extract.

    basically just trying different things in 8 week cycles to find what works best for me. right now i see good readings and bad readings, no real consistency. but ive got a couple more of these 'trials' planned out... ill be doing the 'vasodilator' experiment next, so ill definitely take your advice and through in some arginine.


    it may be inefficient, but i REALLY dont want to get on meds, so ive done a lot of research and have about 8 months of these little 'trials' planned out based on various approaches. doctor says i need to get on meds if it doesnt come down (still usually only in the 140's/80's), but im going to try EVERYTHING i can think of first (of course, cutting sodium, increase cardio, eat healthy, etc are a given throughout). the taurine and olive leaf extract are my staples for next 'cycle', i was just looking for some extra goodies. after that, im going to try bonito peptides and astaxanthin. after that, apple cider vinegar, beet root, icariin and citrulline all together in a ditch effort haha, but hopefully by then ill have found something that works consistently
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    Water water water!!! Don't forget water,,, I carry a 1 quart water bottle with me everywhere and drink 6-8 a day,,, that's 1.5-2 gallons daily
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    Nitrates DO lower blood pressure. Taking too much can be dangerous, or lethal.

    When we're talking nitrates and safety, your average vegetarian eats 300-500mg nitrates a day from veggies, with some consuming well beyond that (damn vegans, lol). Yes, antioxidant intake is concomitantly higher, but like Vaughn said, simply antiox intake can quell any potential negative, and positives are there in spades. It may even be something those who eat few vegetables are lacking in their diet.
  

  
 

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