any REAL vasodilator supps?

Page 4 of 6 First ... 23456 Last

  1. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Ingredients that ACTUALLY increase NO:

    Agmatine sulfate
    Citrulline Malate
    GPLC
    Norvaline
    Epimedium
    (so...basically everything HemaVol includes except GPLC)



    Oh, and Arginine when you inject it.
    + nitrates
    - GPLC (damn bias)


  2. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    + nitrates
    - GPLC (damn bias)
    I really want to argue with Muscleology about including AAKG in their new "ground-breaking" pre.

    On the road to bench pressing 400 pounds Currently over 360...
    •   
       


  3. Ok.... silly question.... what if I mix arginine powder into a hot oil to sterilize it, could I safely inject it??? May sound dumb,,, but why not ask the question

  4. I'm already injecting test, hcg, and b-12..... why not arginine? Lol

  5. i guess just going the hemavol route would be my best bet to cover all bases.... however, it says not to use more than 4 times a week, am i wrong in assuming i may miss my 2nd target goal of lower bp (through vasodilation) as i would probably need something that i can take everyday?

    i just figure if it does help with vasodilation and improve circulation, it wouldnt be in my system long enough to keep these effects if im having to take it every other day. am i wrong in this? (i realize there may not be a definite answer to this as most people probably dont experiment with it for its blood pressure lowering abilities, haha)
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco View Post
    I'm already injecting test, hcg, and b-12..... why not arginine? Lol
    No.
    On the road to bench pressing 400 pounds Currently over 360...

  7. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue
    Arginine does not increase NO...but does help produce pumps.

    Agmatine + Cit Malate + Norvaline + GMS + Alpha-GPC + Vitamin C + Rutacaerpine + Epimedium = win.
    Wat doses on all?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM
    So like....what should the OP take to boost nitric oxide levels? I'm sure it was mentioned in here somewhere. I hate reading though.
    Hahaha flex I loled on that one..... But totally agree. And wish I would just get the answer lol

  9. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco
    Ok.... silly question.... what if I mix arginine powder into a hot oil to sterilize it, could I safely inject it??? May sound dumb,,, but why not ask the question
    No.......... it is possible through chemistry..... But you dont have the supllies or the knowledge.... Sry.... No offense.... Just take insulin

  10. Is this enzyme just ridiculously fast and efficient at the conversion of arginine to ornothine and urea relative to eNOS?

    I feel like you've proposed a mechanism that contains multiple reactions, but jumped over the details regarding relative rates (e.g. selectivities).

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse on the subject, this post simply does not present enough information to support you're claim. I am mainly interested in simply in scientific information being presented in a scientific manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Orally ingested arginine does not increase blood plasma arginine levels.

    This is quite common with compounds to be honest. Look at something like Beta Alanine and Carnosine. Which is best to take to increase Carnosine levels? Beta Alanine. Carnosine on its own barely(if at all) raises plasma Carnosine levels, however Beta Alanine does it quite effectively.


    Arginine works in a similar fashion in that simply eating more arginine does NOT increase arginine levels in our body. The arginine that is digested orally is broken down into smaller subfractions from there(one of which is agmatine sulfate, however at a low rate)...





    In this above image, you'll see that the "arginase enzyme" is responsible for this "phenomenon".


    So at the end of the day, if you want to use arginine to boost NO, I'm sorry but you'll have to inject it...and even then most studies showing an increase in true NO from injected arginine come about with 30g+ IV doses.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by bill86
    i guess just going the hemavol route would be my best bet to cover all bases.... however, it says not to use more than 4 times a week, am i wrong in assuming i may miss my 2nd target goal of lower bp (through vasodilation) as i would probably need something that i can take everyday?

    i just figure if it does help with vasodilation and improve circulation, it wouldnt be in my system long enough to keep these effects if im having to take it every other day. am i wrong in this? (i realize there may not be a definite answer to this as most people probably dont experiment with it for its blood pressure lowering abilities, haha)
    Seriously,,, I take argininernithine in a 2:1 ratio for my blood pressure and IT WORKS!! try it yourself,,, if it doesn't work it won't cost you near as much as most other supplements people are talking about

  12. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner
    Is this enzyme just ridiculously fast and efficient at the conversion of arginine to ornothine and urea relative to eNOS?

    I feel like you've proposed a mechanism that contains multiple reactions, but jumped over the details regarding relative rates (e.g. selectivities).

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse on the subject, this post simply does not present enough information to support you're claim. I am mainly interested in simply in scientific information being presented in a scientific manner.
    10000 posts!? U gota be kidding me lol

  13. Quote Originally Posted by grngoloco

    Seriously,,, I take argininernithine in a 2:1 ratio for my blood pressure and IT WORKS!! try it yourself,,, if it doesn't work it won't cost you near as much as most other supplements people are talking about
    I was taking double dose arginine along with whatever was in my preworkouts, doing this for about a week, then one day I had the squirts seriously all day. At least 5 times a day. After doing some research I decided to stop arginine, and about a week later I was "normal" again. Arginine was the only thing removed.
    Your body can be poisoned with too much basically. It can reach "toxic levels" and symptoms such as mine are a possibility.
    Use code "fl3x10" to get a free shirt with your purchase at Mind and Muscle

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Arginine and AAKG increase muscle blood volume, not vasodilation. Pump =/= vasodilation...same applies for other ingredients on your list.
    Not sure I agree with you- yes, pump does not equal vasodilation, but all of the ingredients listed have some effect on vasodilation/vasorelaxation in human and/or animal studies. Some may have caveats such as oral availability issues, but from a physiological standpoint all of the ingredients have at least some documented evidence of contributing to vasodilation. Some of the ingredients listed may be better than others at acheiving the goal, but this was a general list of compounds that I have seen published studies on- I would be more than glad to go through the list in terms of what I consider to be most effective based on what I have seen and documenable proof- and a lot of what you guys have discussed raises some interesting points....arginine would be one of my last choices for vasodilation (if my life depended on it), along with olive leaf extract and pycogenol, with PDE5 inhibitors and nitrates being at the top of the list
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  15. Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    i guess just going the hemavol route would be my best bet to cover all bases.... however, it says not to use more than 4 times a week, am i wrong in assuming i may miss my 2nd target goal of lower bp (through vasodilation) as i would probably need something that i can take everyday?

    i just figure if it does help with vasodilation and improve circulation, it wouldnt be in my system long enough to keep these effects if im having to take it every other day. am i wrong in this? (i realize there may not be a definite answer to this as most people probably dont experiment with it for its blood pressure lowering abilities, haha)
    HemaVol can be taken daily if desired.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  16. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Not sure I agree with you- yes, pump does not equal vasodilation, but all of the ingredients listed have some effect on vasodilation/vasorelaxation in human and/or animal studies. Some may have caveats such as oral availability issues, but from a physiological standpoint all of the ingredients have at least some documented evidence of contributing to vasodilation. Some of the ingredients listed may be better than others at acheiving the goal, but this was a general list of compounds that I have seen published studies on- I would be more than glad to go through the list in terms of what I consider to be most effective based on what I have seen and documenable proof- and a lot of what you guys have discussed raises some interesting points....arginine would be one of my last choices for vasodilation (if my life depended on it), along with olive leaf extract and pycogenol, with PDE5 inhibitors and nitrates being at the top of the list
    As I said in my previous posts, we are talking about oral, supplemental L-arginine in reasonable doses, not endogenous or intravenous. Anyway, I'll let Vaughn take over as I grow weary of the arginine debates.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    You have to actually read the papers. I know this is hard to understand, but abstracts are just summaries.
    This is true

    Relying on abstracts alone can be quite deceiving and misleading. Its hard to come to a conclusion based off just the abstract without reviewing all the data in the entire paper.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  18. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Is this enzyme just ridiculously fast and efficient at the conversion of arginine to ornothine and urea relative to eNOS?

    I feel like you've proposed a mechanism that contains multiple reactions, but jumped over the details regarding relative rates (e.g. selectivities).

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse on the subject, this post simply does not present enough information to support you're claim. I am mainly interested in simply in scientific information being presented in a scientific manner.
    I always enjoy discussing topics with people, its when the attitudes/attacks start surfacing that make it unbearable. I have no issue continuing this with you since you're obviously looking for the real info/truth, and not a fight(at least I hope not haha).


    What I am saying is that the production of nitric oxide does not occur in our stomachs, and by the time arginine is digested/absorbed, it is no longer arginine...therefor it will not increase NO.

    Again, compare this to Beta Alanaine & Carnosine...which would YOU take to boost Carnosine levels?





    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Wat doses on all?
    Check out the formula here:

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/i....html?sel=4121

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    + nitrates
    - GPLC (damn bias)

    Yes, I forgot about Nitrates.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  19. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    This is true

    Relying on abstracts alone can be quite deceiving and misleading. Its hard to come to a conclusion based off just the abstract without reviewing all the data in the entire paper.
    Which is why I requested him to post 1 study that showed healthy humans increasing their NO through the use of oral arginine.


    Why would I read an entire paper if the abstract doesn't begin to touch on the specific topic on hand?


    I can post a tone of abstracts and full studies all day long, yet it doesn't mean they'll have anything to do with the conversation.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  20. I guess I'll throw away my Hema Vol and just take bulk AAKG.
    On the road to bench pressing 400 pounds Currently over 360...

  21. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM

    I was taking double dose arginine along with whatever was in my preworkouts, doing this for about a week, then one day I had the squirts seriously all day. At least 5 times a day. After doing some research I decided to stop arginine, and about a week later I was "normal" again. Arginine was the only thing removed.
    Your body can be poisoned with too much basically. It can reach "toxic levels" and symptoms such as mine are a possibility.
    You can get the squirts from vitamin c... that doesn't equate with being "poisoned" it just means you weren't used to it,,, you have to raise your dosage gradually ..... also it should be taken alone,, it competes for receptors and any that passes through without being absorbed adds to the squirts

  22. Quote Originally Posted by DkGreek View Post
    I guess I'll throw away my Hema Vol and just take bulk AAKG.
    i c wut u did thar.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  23. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    As I said in my previous posts, we are talking about oral, supplemental L-arginine in reasonable doses, not endogenous or intravenous. Anyway, I'll let Vaughn take over as I grow weary of the arginine debates.
    There are definitely better alternatives out there for the task at hand.....having to take 20 grams of ANY amino acid at once to elicit some sort of response is not my idea of a fun afternoon....
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  24. Quote Originally Posted by DkGreek View Post
    Agmatine and citrulline malate. Buckets, bro.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by rms80

    There are definitely better alternatives out there for the task at hand.....having to take 20 grams of ANY amino acid at once to elicit some sort of response is not my idea of a fun afternoon....
    Lol..... it's @ two teaspoons mixed with a glass of water and some pedialyte powder..... considering the average serious body builder takes 20+ pills a day.... that's nothing!!

  26. Was doing AAKG for many years at fairly high dosage (10 grams) but pumps wouldn't last long.... maybe a couple of hours at most then the pumps went away.

    For me the best NO boosters are Agmatine, GPLC, and Creatine Nitrate. You can get the bulk agmatine from Muscle Feast. Was using Primordial's GPLC for a long time (which was great) but now they've discontinued it You can PrimaForce which is good but not as good of a value.

    For a great combo product you can do APS's Nitrozine which has GPLC and Agmatine... sick pumps all day.

  27. Nitrates
    Gplc
    Agmatine

    My picks
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE

  28. Quote Originally Posted by titanman31 View Post
    I agree with the agmatine statement I love that stuff

    I have had good results with the SNS caps.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by GTB View Post
    I have had good results with the SNS caps.
    Hard not to feel awesome on Agmatine!
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  30. I've personally compared Agmatine, Citulline Malate, and GLPC together with a Nitrate (Yoked) and, although both worked extremely well, the nitrate worked slightly better for me. But Agmatine and Yoked together-- Ha!

    The cool thing about these supps is they not only make you look more pumped, but they dramatically increase energy and cardio abilities. I'm old and I can get 15.5 - 16 mets out of my cycling ablities when I go all out for 30 minutes. Ten mets is good shape for a 45 year old, and higher is better. And these supps do make a big difference.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Best Pre-Workout Vasodilator
    By MF210 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 10-04-2009, 08:58 AM
  2. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 10-23-2008, 11:20 PM
  3. Any real good supps out there?
    By HoserShamrock in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-07-2007, 08:50 AM
Log in
Log in