A No BS answer for FAT BURNERS...

  1. A No BS answer for FAT BURNERS...


    As we all have a quest for the ultimate cover shoot body, and some in their quest to imitate Arnold's ever amazing figure, we try certain things.
    Fat burners...do they work...they give us a buzz...stimulate certain pathways that are hard to stimulate through diet and exercise alone and they also speed up the process to get lean...
    but are they hindering us in performance?stimulant based that is? as a runner i want as much blood to flow through to my muscles to transport oxygen and produce ATP in certain phases. BB'ers need the ATP and blood flow to feel that "pump".

    Before i ramble on, what stimulants are out there that don't cause a vasoconstriction to our bodies and raise cortisol to much? We are always under the pump and we tax our adrenals...i come to the conclusion that i am not as lean as i am even after multiple ways of dieting. zig zag intake, carb cycling, keto, 40/40/20, paleo (i feel best without grains and dairy anyway), Intermittent fasting, Eat Stop Eat, low carb, low fat...

    example: clen is a beta receptor upregulator, and is a stim...would this cause constriction?

    thanks to anyone who can help me

    -Chris
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -


  2. Very interesting topic.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by BB12 View Post
    Very interesting topic.
    It is man... got me stumped as to what to do to improve training, in both running and weights to be faster, fitter, stronger, leaner
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -
    •   
       


  4. When do you typically run? Early AM... just guessing since this post is pretty early on a Saturday
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  5. its almost 11pm Saturday night here man...im looking for answers for my 8am Sunday run hahah
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  6. It is going to be a hard task to find a stimulant that doesn't raise cortisol lol.

    Rather than making the link between stimulants to vasoconstriction to decreased performance why don't you just go through the studies that are not looking at one isolated factor i.e. vasoconstriction. Look at the bigger picture.

    ---

    Physiological responses to caffeine during endurance running in habitual caffeine users.

    Authors: Tarnopolsky MA, Atkinson SA, MacDougall JD, Sale DG, Sutton JR

    Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise [1989, 21(4):418-24]



    Type: Clinical Trial, Journal Article, Randomized Controlled Trial, Review, Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't


    Several studies have found that caffeine improved endurance exercise performance, but the factors which are responsible for this are not fully understood. Possibilities include an increased free fatty acid (FFA) oxidation and a resultant sparing of muscle glycogen as well as an enhancement of neuromuscular function during exercise. In order to further examine these factors, six varsity level runners (VO2max = 63.3 ml.kg-1.min-1) were studied over 90 min of treadmill running (70% VO2max) in a thermoneutral environment in order to determine the metabolic and neuromuscular effects of caffeine (6 mg.kg-1) administered in a randomized, crossover, double-blind manner. Subjects were habitual caffeine consumers (200 mg.d-1) and were given identical diets during each 3-d testing period. Caffeine administration, 60 min prior to exercise, significantly (P less than 0.05) increased plasma FFA levels both prior to and during exercise. Caffeine administration did not alter any of the other variables examined: VO2, HR, RER, rating of perceived exertion; plasma levels of glucose, lactate, epinephrine, and norepinephrine; or neuromuscular function (maximal voluntary strength, peak twitch torque, and motor unit activation). We conclude that caffeine administration (6 mg.kg-1) in athletic, habitual caffeine consumers increased plasma FFA levels but had neither metabolic nor neuromuscular effects that would be of potential ergogenic benefit in endurance running.

    ---

    The study is small and I am not posting it to be conclusive. I am posting it to point out that when you are looking for performance based results you need to look at it as a whole. Think of it as studies on testosterone boosters, they study one isolated factor but does that factor translate into more hypertrophy and/or better performance? That is a completely different question.
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  7. i understand Benny... cortisol also causes fat storage...as we all know.
    caffiene and i think the recent article was Beta Alanine reduced fatigue in endurance athletes...also, tyrosine at 12mg per kg of a male so example 80kg male needs almost 10g of tyrosine to retard stress and pain in the brain...

    i hate eating pre training and cant train with food, so there is no chance ill run after food anymore...
    fasted training (MB's leangains site) jacks up Catecholamine levels so there is good evidence there, but obtaining that energy and zing without stims to enhance fat loss, improve insulin sensitivity, and get faster/fitter
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  8. ALCAR?
    PES Representative
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    its almost 11pm Saturday night here man...im looking for answers for my 8am Sunday run hahah
    Haha... now I know why
    Formutech Nutrition | Online/Social Media Rep
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc
    ALCAR?
    Or PLCAR?
    ALCAR is more cognitive?
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  11. Hey runner,

    So are you promoting fasted training, and using stims for the energy, instead of food?

    Then obviously get your macro's elsewhere during the rest of the day.

    I've never tried this but heard alot about it

  12. Quote Originally Posted by LiamGTR
    Hey runner,

    So are you promoting fasted training, and using stims for the energy, instead of food?

    Then obviously get your macro's elsewhere during the rest of the day.

    I've never tried this but heard alot about it
    Precisely, BUT, trying to find alternative Supps to stims for energy instead of caffiene etc due to extra added Cort and the flow of oxygen to our muscles to run harder and faster for longer...like i jog at 13km/hr but train at around 15-17km per hour for speed and endurance...need all the oxygen in my legs and lungs
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  13. Depending on the dose of (source...A, P, lcar...) I've notice an increase of sweating.

    Ever think about taking a fat burner ... say an hour or so after your run?

    Theory - just to keep your metabolism firing in overdrive
    Formutech Nutrition | Online/Social Media Rep
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by BB12
    Depending on the dose of (source...A, P, lcar...) I've notice an increase of sweating.

    Ever think about taking a fat burner ... say an hour or so after your run?

    Theory - just to keep your metabolism firing in overdrive
    I have read somewhere that post caffiene intake helps insulin sensitivity...or maybe I'm lost...
    ALCAR I usually throw down 5g pre 30mins with some Beta Alanine and my Cordygen, alpha t2 and shred ultra
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  15. I personally use 'Thermobol' and those kind of Fat Burner's Pre-Workout and I can really feel that kick in after about 45 mins, BUT I always have food aswell so maybe will try them on a compltetly empty stomach

    Will report back!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by LiamGTR
    I personally use 'Thermobol' and those kind of Fat Burner's Pre-Workout and I can really feel that kick in after about 45 mins, BUT I always have food aswell so maybe will try them on a compltetly empty stomach

    Will report back!
    No worries

    -Chris
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  17. I didn't want to product drop on you...but this may actually work for your goal.

    AX Ultra Reps
    Ultra Reps Performance Blend: German Creatine Monohydrate (Creapure®), Enterically coated L-Carnosine (b-Alanyl-l-histidine), Disodium Adenosine-5'-triphosphate, Trisodium Citrate dihydrate, Theobromine anhydrous.

    Maybe some extra/added Theobromine would give you that added boost.
    Formutech Nutrition | Online/Social Media Rep
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Precisely, BUT, trying to find alternative Supps to stims for energy instead of caffiene etc due to extra added Cort and the flow of oxygen to our muscles to run harder and faster for longer...like i jog at 13km/hr but train at around 15-17km per hour for speed and endurance...need all the oxygen in my legs and lungs
    You are saying this like caffeine impairs performance and hinders fat loss because it raises cortisol though. This is what I mean about looking at one isolated factor rather than the bigger picture. Caffeine has been studied extensively on it's role for sports performance but you are only seeing "vasoconstriction" and coming to your own conclusions.

    Honestly Chris, you do a lot of CV work, you have tried many diets, you have tried many fat burners. If you are not lean enough at the moment I highly suggest looking at one of the other categories instead of fat burners.
    PES Representative
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com

  19. How about Sulbutamine? Derived from one of the B vitamins (thiamine I think). Gives me good energy, especially when coupled with Hordinine. Neither is vaso-constricting to the best of my knowledge, and they are both allowed by WADA

  20. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc

    You are saying this like caffeine impairs performance and hinders fat loss because it raises cortisol though. This is what I mean about looking at one isolated factor rather than the bigger picture. Caffeine has been studied extensively on it's role for sports performance but you are only seeing "vasoconstriction" and coming to your own conclusions.

    Honestly Chris, you do a lot of CV work, you have tried many diets, you have tried many fat burners. If you are not lean enough at the moment I highly suggest looking at one of the other categories instead of fat burners.
    I know the small picture is not ideal but was looking for ways to up the anti on oxygen and blood flow seeing as though stims are a constrictor
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  21. Quote Originally Posted by RedwolfWV
    How about Sulbutamine? Derived from one of the B vitamins (thiamine I think). Gives me good energy, especially when coupled with Hordinine. Neither is vaso-constricting to the best of my knowledge, and they are both allowed by WADA
    Vitamin b1
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  22. These days I'm trying to get some info on a new fat burner that
    sounds pretty freakin' amazing, I might be able to catch a "leak" on the
    profile, if so I'll be sharing
    ..:: ENHANCED BODY FORMULATIONS ::..
    Recompadrol & AAV2 - PM me with any questions


  23. Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47
    These days I'm trying to get some info on a new fat burner that
    sounds pretty freakin' amazing, I might be able to catch a "leak" on the
    profile, if so I'll be sharing
    Interested! If something can make YOU leaner it must work!
    RecoverBro ELITE

  24. Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Interested! If something can make YOU leaner it must work!
    ahah word
    for the lil I know right now this one sounds like a winner
    I'll keep ya posted bro
    ..:: ENHANCED BODY FORMULATIONS ::..
    Recompadrol & AAV2 - PM me with any questions


  25. Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47
    These days I'm trying to get some info on a new fat burner that
    sounds pretty freakin' amazing, I might be able to catch a "leak" on the
    profile, if so I'll be sharing
    Sharing is caring
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  26. What's going on ITT
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  27. cant we all just carb cycle, take fish oils, eat clean, and work really hard???

    call me crazy but i think this will usually work for almost anyone
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by rochabp
    cant we all just carb cycle, take fish oils, eat clean, and work really hard???

    call me crazy but i think this will usually work for almost anyone
    I'd agree a bit.
    Tried a fat burner wasnt a huge fan.
    Might try 1 again but out of the 2 I used last time the bottles r still half fuel...
    Hot damn I wasted my money on this shít
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47

    ahah word
    for the lil I know right now this one sounds like a winner
    I'll keep ya posted bro
    I'm hearing ya man...
    Very intrigued to know more...any more?stop teasing
    ...::: Olympus Labs :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  30. Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    cant we all just carb cycle, take fish oils, eat clean, and work really hard???

    call me crazy but i think this will usually work for almost anyone
    If that was the case this site wouldn't exist.

  31. Quote Originally Posted by LiamGTR View Post
    If that was the case this site wouldn't exist.
    if that aint working your not trying hard enough.
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.
  

  
 

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