Why is soy protein hated?

[AaronJP1]

Main thing I've heard about it is that it increases estrogen?
Trying to figure out why the majority of people talk down on soy protein....

 

[monstermash]

As far as I know it contains phyto-estrogens. Even my aunt who had breast cancer was told to stay away from all soy products by her doc.


http://www.optimumchoices.com/Soy.htm

a quick google search came up with a ton of links to info. I didn't read thru this one but it might help you out.

 

[AaronJP1]

As far as I know it contains phyto-estrogens. Even my aunt who had breast cancer was told to stay away from all soy products by her doc.

http://www.optimumchoices.com/Soy.htm

a quick google search came up with a ton of links to info. I didn't read thru this one but it might help you out.

Damn... I'll take a look.
Crazy, just see so much hate upwards soy.

 

[PVL]

Damn... I'll take a look.
Crazy, just see so much hate upwards soy.

monster mash pretty much sum'd it up.........

its just not a good protein source, too many problems directly related to high estrogen levels in both genders......

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Soy protein is for girls....and maybe hippies too....

 

[PVL]

Soy protein is for girls....and maybe hippies too....

n girls who braid their pubes...........lmao

 

[lboston]

n girls who braid their pubes...........lmao

Lol--that's some funny sh1t.

 

[PVL]

Lol--that's some funny sh1t.

....................i try i try

 

[AaronJP1]

So which one of y'all use soy?

 

[RealBigga]

Aaron let me get that code fool

 

[AaronJP1]

Aaron let me get that code fool

:bryce:

 

[RealBigga]

:bryce:

fuk u too u pie ass whiteboy acting out as a black boy on a bodybuilding forum

 

[AaronJP1]

fuk u too u pie ass whiteboy acting out as a black boy on a bodybuilding forum

Don't make me find yo chubby Azz n fuq u up! :thumbsup:

 

[PVL]

fuk u too u pie ass whiteboy acting out as a black boy on a bodybuilding forum

bwahahahahahahah! NOW THAT WAS FUNNY AS ****!!!!!

 

[AaronJP1]

This thread just went to str8
Bullshît.

 

[RealBigga]

This thread just went to str8
Bullshît.

go drink your soy bean shake you bitch

 

[PVL]

This thread just went to str8
Bullshît.

lmao..........its what we do best.................

 

[AaronJP1]

go drink your soy bean shake you bitch

Ya mama

 

[RealBigga]

Ya mama

i wudnt be suprised, u drink wat bitches drink. someone move this thread to femalebodybuilding dot com, thx

 

[PVL]

you guys made my dad with this.............hahahahahhahahahaah!

 

[AaronJP1]

you guys made my dad with this.............hahahahahhahahahaah!

That would require me to have fuked ya grandma, I didn't do that

 

[PVL]

That would require me to have fuked ya grandma, I didn't do that

lol.............day ya jackass.............hahahhahahahah

 

[jherman08]

Black dude with chick in club, middle aged overweight white male, or a pitbull... Not sure which one Aaron is....

 

[AaronJP1]

Black dude with chick in club, middle aged overweight white male, or a pitbull... Not sure which one Aaron is....

I'll give you my address you can come find out.

 

[jherman08]

I'll give you my address you can come find out.

:sly:

 

[PVL]

Black dude with chick in club, middle aged overweight white male, or a pitbull... Not sure which one Aaron is....

lmao...............

 

[jbryand101b]

i have no problem using soy protein, or protein blends with soy in them.

nothing wrong with plant based proteins. just dont get all crazy, using 50mg of soy, instead of whey an other forms.

but 5g of soy or w/e isn't going to hurt you.

 

[AaronJP1]

:sly:

 

[AaronJP1]

i have no problem using soy protein, or protein blends with soy in them.

nothing wrong with plant based proteins. just dont get all crazy, using 50mg of soy, instead of whey an other forms.

but 5g of soy or w/e isn't going to hurt you.

You really think it's a big concern this soy protein?
Noticed you said 5g, most proteins have way more than 5g in them even if it's a blend

 

[monstermash]

i have no problem using soy protein, or protein blends with soy in them.

nothing wrong with plant based proteins. just dont get all crazy, using 50mg of soy, instead of whey an other forms.

but 5g of soy or w/e isn't going to hurt you.

Could use pea protein too.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Inhibits protein synthesis

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

For that matter........who ever said we "hated" the soy protein?......I would term it more as a "strong dislike" for soy protein. bordering on hate, but that is just too strong of a word.

 

[AaronJP1]

For that matter........who ever said we "hated" the soy protein?......I would term it more as a "strong dislike" for soy protein. bordering on hate, but that is just too strong of a word.

But you got the original point right?

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

But you got the original point right?

I actually hate it, but I wanted to placate any possible soy protein loving board sponsors/members so they did not have to come up in here and defend themselves....remember visalus? and how that turned out? Do we need another Visalus disaster, this time about defending the honor of soy? lol

 

[JudoJosh]

i have no problem using soy protein, or protein blends with soy in them.

nothing wrong with plant based proteins. just dont get all crazy, using 50mg of soy, instead of whey an other forms.

but 5g of soy or w/e isn't going to hurt you.

^ This

People have the tendency to over exaggerate things. Soy is fine just keep it to a minimal and dont make it your main protein source.

 

[AaronJP1]

I actually hate it, but I wanted to placate any possible soy protein loving board sponsors/members so they did not have to come up in here and defend themselves....remember visalus? and how that turned out? Do we need another Visalus disaster, this time about defending the honor of soy? lol

:laughing:

 

[fightbackhxc]

Inhibits protein synthesis

Would never take soy

 

[JudoJosh]

Inhibits protein synthesis

Would never take soy

Not quite..

Soy increases AMPK activity. AMPK inhibits mTOR.

PMID: 18420492

But if I may point out, the above is a study using mice. In order for soy (or any other phytoestrogens) to do what it did in the above study you would need to figure out how much soy would be an equivalent amount for humans. So the question then becomes, how much soy does a human really need to consume in order to activate AMPK? Also, if adding something like extra BCAAs or whey to the soy be enough to counter the AMPK and its effect on mTOR?

Again, as I said in my earlier post, as long as soy isnt you main protein source then getting minimal amounts here and there arent going to have a huge negative effect IMO

Also, for what its worth, AMPK will also increase fat oxidation. Within that study above it showed large losses in body fat mass and not fat free mass.

 

[AaronJP1]

Guess I won't make that one of my main sources of protein next time

 

[fightbackhxc]

Not quite..

Soy increases AMPK activity. AMPK inhibits mTOR.

PMID: 18420492

But if I may point out, the above is a study using mice. In order for soy (or any other phytoestrogens) to do what it did in the above study you would need to figure out how much soy would be an equivalent amount for humans. So the question then becomes, how much soy does a human really need to consume in order to activate AMPK? Also, if adding something like extra BCAAs or whey to the soy be enough to counter the AMPK and its effect on mTOR?

Again, as I said in my earlier post, as long as soy isnt you main protein source then getting minimal amounts here and there arent going to have a huge negative effect IMO

Also, for what its worth, AMPK will also increase fat oxidation. Within that study above it showed large losses in body fat mass and not fat free mass.

I have heard recent talk about soy containing something inhibits protein synthesis. I cannot remember what it was called. Regardless, you don't hear people contemplating and arguing about whey.....so why not just buy whey protein? Its cheap enough and tried and true.

 

[fightbackhxc]

A good resource for you to listen to:

http://superhumanradio.com/shr-861-best-of-all-proteins-are-not-created-equal-the-anabolic-response-of-various-protein-sources.html

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

I have heard recent talk about soy containing something inhibits protein synthesis. I cannot remember what it was called. Regardless, you don't hear people contemplating and arguing about whey.....so why not just buy whey protein? Its cheap enough and tried and true.

I'll tell you,over the decades I've heard from A to Z about soy....the phtyoestrogens and flavones occupy estrogen receptors so the real estrogen can't occupy it, so it's good for men.....then you hear it acts like an estrogen at the receptor and men should avoid it.....it's a decent source of protein quality, then its a shyt source of quality protein....Then there are negative things like you mention thrown around about it... yada yada, you never know WHAT to make of soy protein. Like you say, why bother with it? there is whey, egg, casein powders galore and we know what they are all about for 100% sure.

 

[fightbackhxc]

I'll tell you,over the decades I've heard from A to Z about soy....the phtyoestrogens and flavones occupy estrogen receptors so the real estrogen can't occupy it, so it's good for men.....then you hear it acts like an estrogen at the receptor and men should avoid it.....it's a decent source of protein quality, then its a shyt source of quality protein....Then there are negative things like you mention thrown around about it... yada yada, you never know WHAT to make of soy protein. Like you say, why bother with it? there is whey, egg, casein powders galore and we know what they are all about for 100% sure.

Exactly much better sources out there....even plant wise there are better sources

 

[ssbackwards]

Not quite..

Soy increases AMPK activity. AMPK inhibits mTOR.

PMID: 18420492

But if I may point out, the above is a study using mice. In order for soy (or any other phytoestrogens) to do what it did in the above study you would need to figure out how much soy would be an equivalent amount for humans. So the question then becomes, how much soy does a human really need to consume in order to activate AMPK? Also, if adding something like extra BCAAs or whey to the soy be enough to counter the AMPK and its effect on mTOR?

Again, as I said in my earlier post, as long as soy isnt you main protein source then getting minimal amounts here and there arent going to have a huge negative effect IMO

Also, for what its worth, AMPK will also increase fat oxidation. Within that study above it showed large losses in body fat mass and not fat free mass.

its funny you mention AMPK, ALA increases AMPK in muscles, but not in hypothalmus. ALA does the same thing.

Use Leucine when using plant based proteins since their leucine content is lower then animal or milk based protein,

 

[JudoJosh]

I have heard recent talk about soy containing something inhibits protein synthesis. I cannot remember what it was called.

If you happen to remember, please share.


In the meantime this is another reason for not having soy as a main source of protein

Serum testosterone decreased 19%(+/-22%) during the 4-week use of soy protein powder (P = 0.021) and increased within 2 weeks after we discontinued soy protein powder-PMID 17416779

Regardless, you don't hear people contemplating and arguing about whey.....so why not just buy whey protein? Its cheap enough and tried and true.

Honestly if egg protein was cheaper I think it would be the superior choice out of all of them. Whey is just convenient and cheap.

A good resource for you to listen to:

http://superhumanradio.com/shr-861-best-of-all-proteins-are-not-created-equal-the-anabolic-response-of-various-protein-sources.html

Thanks!

its funny you mention AMPK, ALA increases AMPK in muscles, but not in hypothalmus. ALA does the same thing.

What about with berberine?

I know berberine also activates AMPK

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172163 see post #9 for references

Use Leucine when using plant based proteins since their leucine content is lower then animal or milk based protein,

pretty much what I said

 

[ssbackwards]

berberine does the same as well.

a lot do. however overall benefical effect plus most of our overconsumption of protein make this worry non existent.

 

[Colbert]

because the amino acid ratio is much lower and proteins from meat content get absorbed the best, then dairy, then plant...that's why meat proteins are so popular

 

[AaronJP1]

because the amino acid ratio is much lower and proteins from meat content get absorbed the best, then dairy, then plant...that's why meat proteins are so popular

Thx.


Everyone had good advice and great answers...
I think I have a decent grasp on what to do know thx

 

[McCoy1989]

Just finished a container of soy based protein powder and I'll never use it again. I tried it because it was half the price of comparably protein rich whey blends but I had a few issues... It mixed terribly and tasted awful but felt lighter in my stomach than whey blends usually do. I would recommend staying away from it. We are at the top of the food chain. We might as well enjoy our animal products. I think whey is the way to go.

 

[AaronJP1]

Just finished a container of soy based protein powder and I'll never use it again. I tried it because it was half the price of comparably protein rich whey blends but I had a few issues... It mixed terribly and tasted awful but felt lighter in my stomach than whey blends usually do. I would recommend staying away from it. We are at the top of the food chain. We might as well enjoy our animal products. I think whey is the way to go.

Good thoughts :thumbsup: