How to dose Dodder Seed?
- 10-03-2011, 01:48 PM
How to dose Dodder Seed?
Just as the title states, I was wondering if anyone here has used Dodder Seed before and if so what is the correct dosage? I have done searches and can't seem to find much information on proper dosing strategies for this particular supplement. I know that it is in some supplements as part of a proprietary blend, but due to the fact that it is a proprietary blend there is no way to know for sure how much Dodder Seed is in the blend.
I weigh 175lbs and want to know what the minimum effective dosage should be as well as what it the upper range limit for dosing should be? Should it be taken all at once or spread out through the day?
- 10-03-2011, 04:33 PMBoard Sponsor
- 6'3" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Rep Power
Good question. I haven't ever used it solo only ever used it in applied nutricuticals Drive. But let me see if I can do some digging for you.Athletic Xtreme Team REPhttp://www.AthleticX.net/
AXHOLE BY NATURE
- 10-03-2011, 06:00 PMBoard Sponsor
- 6'3" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Rep Power
This is what I've found. Powdered extract suggested to use 1000 to 2000 mgs single daily,or 200~400mgs in combinations. But if you want a good combination give drive a try. I can hook you up with a discount code if your interested let me know.Athletic Xtreme Team REPhttp://www.AthleticX.net/
AXHOLE BY NATURE
10-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Thank you for the reply. I would still like to try dodder seed on its own first in order to assess its effects while also figuring how to properly dose this supplement on its own.
Additionally, your offer of a discount code is much appreciated. Drive seems like and interesting product, however the addition of Naringenin in the formula for drive is what keep me from trying it. I have taken other products in the past that contained either bioperine, naringin, naringenin, and or other ingredients used to increase bioavailability of the main ingredients. I have found that I do not respond well to any products that contain such ingredients due to the fact that they lower my liver's ability to metabolize substances I ingest.
10-03-2011, 10:34 PM
- 6'3" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Rep Power
No problem glad I could help. I hope it works well for you. Just out of curiosity Are you looking for the libido effects from it?
Athletic Xtreme Team REPhttp://www.AthleticX.net/
AXHOLE BY NATURE
10-03-2011, 10:53 PM
IGF-2 also has dodder seed
10-04-2011, 12:26 AM
flightposite - I am curious to see what its effects are as far as libido, possible fat loss, and tonifying of the liver/kidneys.
judojosh - You apparently did not read my post regarding proprietary blends and supplements that contain bioperine, naringin, naringenin, etc.
10-04-2011, 12:49 AM
What I would like to ask you though is how you came about to deduce that bioperine caused any type of problems for you if as you said it was in other products as a prop blend which means more ingredients were also in said product so it would be fairly hard to determine what effects are from what ingredient, would it not? Furthermore you claim that bioperine lowers your liver's ability to metabolize substances you ingest.. again how did you come to this conclusion as I would imagine this would be extremely difficult to pinpoint. Instead is it based of something you read somewhere?
10-04-2011, 12:57 AM
Since the lowest dose of 1.12 mg of piperine per kg body weight had no immunotoxic effect, it may be considered as immunologically safe "no observed adverse effect level" dose.Immunotoxicological effects of piperine in mice. Dogra RK, Khanna S, Shanker R. Toxicology. 2004 Mar 15;196(3):229-36
The immunotoxicological effects of piperine were investigated in Swiss male mice, gavaged at a dose of 1.12, 2.25 or 4.5 mg/kg body weight for five consecutive days. All the dose levels had no overt toxic effect and the liver gained weight normally. Treatment at highest dose, however, resulted in significant decrease in the weight of spleen, thymus and mesenteric lymph nodes, but not of peripheral lymph nodes. All the dose levels suppressed the cellular population of lymphoid organs, except for the spleen, where the doses of 1.12 and 2.25 caused an increase. Haematologically, doses of 2.25 and 4.5 mg/kg caused a significant reduction in total leucocyte counts and differential leucocyte counts showed an increase in the percentage of neutrophils. The higher doses of 2.25 and 4.5 mg/kg suppressed the mitogenic response of B-lymphocyte to lipopolysaccharide. The number of primary antibody (IgM) forming cells in the spleen and the level of primary antibody in serum, was decreased. The doses of 1.12 and 2.25 mg/kg suppressed the mitogenic response of T-lymphocytes to phytohaemagglutinin and the nitroblue tetrazolium (NBT) dye reducing activity of peritoneal exudate cells (PECs).
The results suggest that:Piperine inhibits aflatoxin B1-induced cytotoxicity and genotoxicity in V79 Chinese hamster cells genetically engineered to express rat cytochrome P4502B1. Reen RK, Wiebel FJ, Singh J. J Ethnopharmacol. 1997 Nov;58(3):165-73
We have investigated the potential of piperine for inhibiting the activity of cytochrome P4502B1 and protecting against aflatoxin B1 (AFB1) in V79MZr2B1 (r2B1) cells, i.e. V79 Chinese hamster cells engineered for the expression of rat CYP4502B1. The cells were found to contain high activities of 7-methoxycoumarin demethylase (MOCD). Piperine inhibited MOCD in preparations of r2B1 cells with an IC50 of approximately 10 microM. The cells in culture dealkylated 7-methoxycoumarin (MOC) to 7-OH-coumarin linearly, at least for 12 h, where piperine produced concentration-dependent inhibition with IC50 < 30 microM. The time required for maximal inhibition was approximately 8 h with both 30 and 60 microM concentrations of piperine used. AFB1 at 0.1-20 microM caused a concentration dependent decrease in the amount of DNA and an increase in the formation of micronuclei (MN). The mycotoxin at 10 microM reduced DNA by approximately 30% and increased MN appearance by 20-fold against the background level of 7 MN per 500 nuclei. Piperine at 60 microM completely counteracted cytotoxicity and formation of MN by 10 microM AFB1 and reduced the toxic effects of 20 microM AFB1 by > 50%.
1. Piperine is a potent inhibitor of rat CYP4502B1 activity
2. AFB1 is activated by r2B1 cells to cytotoxic and genotoxic metabolites; and
3. piperine counteracts CYP4502B1 mediated toxicity of AFB1 in the cells and might, therefore, offer a potent chemopreventive effect against procarcinogens activated by CYP4502B1.
Results from the present study suggest a better therapeutic index for the nimesulide-piperine combination indicating that this combination would further reduce the frequency of adverse effects associated with nimesulide alone.Comparative anti-nociceptive, anti-inflammatory and toxicity profile of nimesulide vs nimesulide and piperine combination. Gupta SK, Bansal P, Bhardwaj RK, Velpandian T. Pharmacol Res. 2000 Jun;41(6):657-62.
Piperine is an inhibitor of various hepatic and other enzymes involved in the biotransformation of drugs. Preliminary pharmacokinetic studies conducted by us suggested the increased bioavailability of nimesulide co-administered with piperine. The present study was, thus, conducted to evaluate the antinociceptive, anti-inflammatory and toxicity profile of a new nimesulide-piperine combination administered orally as compared with nimesulide alone. Antinociceptive efficacy was tested using an acetic acid writhing test and tail flick latency test (TFL). The ED50 value of a nimesulide-piperine combination in writhing test was calculated to be significantly lower (1.5 mg kg(-1)) as compared to (11.2 mg kg(-1)) of nimesulide alone. The antinociceptive effect was lesser in the tail flick latency test as compared to what was observed in the writhing test indicating the peripheral action of the Non-Steriodal Anti-Inflammatory Drug (NSAID). In carrageenan-induced inflammatory tests, the nimesulide-piperine combination was found to be dose-to-dose superior than nimesulide alone. Acute toxicity studies on mice revealed a reduction in lethal dose (LD50) of the combination (980 mg kg(-1)) as compared to nimesulide (1500 mg kg(-1)) alone.
Curcumin, carnosol, and capsaicin also inhibited the activation of AhR in this assay, although to a lesser degree. (SAME MECHANISM)These results suggest that several vegetable constituents might play a role in protection against dioxin toxicity.Screening of the inhibitory effect of vegetable constituents on the aryl hydrocarbon receptor-mediated activity induced by 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCCD). Amakura Y, Tsutsumi T, Sasaki K, Yoshida T, Maitani T. Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 Dec;26(12):1754-60.
The aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR) is a ligand-activated nuclear transcription factor that mediates responses to environmental contaminants such as dioxins, which have many adverse health effects. We performed a preliminary screening of the inhibitory effects of vegetable constituents on 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD)-induced activation of AhR using the AhR-based bioassay for dioxins, the Ah-Immunoassay. Ninety vegetable constituents including flavonoids, tannins, saponins, terpenes, etc., were assayed in vitro. Among them, flavones, flavonols, anthraquinones, piperine, coumestrol, brevifolincarboxylic acid, and resveratrol showed marked inhibitory effects on AhR-based bioassay activation by TCDD, and their effects were dose dependent.
Black pepper and its pungent principle-piperine: a review of diverse physiological effects.
Department of Biochemistry and Nutrition, Central Food Technological Research Institute, Mysore, India. firstname.lastname@example.org
Black pepper (Piper nigrum) is one of the most widely used among spices. It is valued for its distinct biting quality attributed to the alkaloid, piperine. Black pepper is used not only in human dietaries but also for a variety of other purposes such as medicinal, as a preservative, and in perfumery. Many physiological effects of black pepper, its extracts, or its major active principle, piperine, have been reported in recent decades. Dietary piperine, by favorably stimulating the digestive enzymes of pancreas, enhances the digestive capacity and significantly reduces the gastrointestinal food transit time. Piperine has been demonstrated in in vitro studies to protect against oxidative damage by inhibiting or quenching free radicals and reactive oxygen species. Black pepper or piperine treatment has also been evidenced to lower lipid peroxidation in vivo and beneficially influence cellular thiol status, antioxidant molecules and antioxidant enzymes in a number of experimental situations of oxidative stress. The most far-reaching attribute of piperine has been its inhibitory influence on enzymatic drug biotransforming reactions in the liver. It strongly inhibits hepatic and intestinal aryl hydrocarbon hydroxylase and UDP-glucuronyl transferase. Piperine has been documented to enhance the bioavailability of a number of therapeutic drugs as well as phytochemicals by this very property. Piperine's bioavailability enhancing property is also partly attributed to increased absorption as a result of its effect on the ultrastructure of intestinal brush border. Although initially there were a few controversial reports regarding its safety as a food additive, such evidence has been questionable, and later studies have established the safety of black pepper or its active principle, piperine, in several animal studies. Piperine, while it is non-genotoxic, has in fact been found to possess anti-mutagenic and anti-tumor influences.Overall, the data indicate that the features of these commonly used food ingredients or endogenous bile salts can effectively improve bioavailability of various BCS Class III and Class IV drugs.In situ and in vivo efficacy of peroral absorption enhancers in rats and correlation to in vitro mechanistic studies. Sharma P, Varma MV, Chawla HP, Panchagnula R. Farmaco. 2005 Nov-Dec;60(11-12):874-83.
The present investigation attempts to increase intestinal permeability and hence absorption of biopharmaceutic classification system (BCS) Class III (cefotaxime sodium (CX)) and Class IV (cyclosporin A (CSA)) drugs by employing certain absorption enhancers. Drugs were co-perfused with sodium caprate (SC, 0.25% w/v), piperine (P, 0.004% w/v) and sodium deoxycholate (SD, 1.0% w/v) separately in rat in situ single pass intestinal perfusion model. These additives increased intestinal permeability (P(app)) and absorption rate constant (K(a)) up to two and fourfold, respectively. SC exhibited substantial absorption enhancement of both CX and CSA, while SD and P enhanced absorption of CX and CSA, respectively. Co-administration of SC significantly enhanced peroral bioavailability of CX (from 29.4 +/- 1.7 to 69.6 +/- 3.2) and CSA (from 18.4 +/- 15.6 to 49.6 +/- 25.1) in rats, while P increased bioavailability of CSA (from 18.4 +/- 15.6 to 33.1 +/- 17.7). Transmission electron microscopy of intestinal mucosa revealed that SC and SD act on lipid and protein domains of absorptive membrane. P showed no effect on intestinal P(app) and oral bioavailability of CX but has a profound effect on CSA, a known P-glycoprotein (P-gp) substrate. These results indicated that P enhances intestinal absorption of CSA by modulating P-gp mediated efflux transport. Release of lactate dehydrogenase in situ from intestinal mucosa in the presence of absorption enhancer was taken as index of its local toxicity. All the absorption enhancers showed significantly less release of LDH compared to positive control, sodium dodecyl sulfate (60% w/v).
Piperine supplementation to tumour-induced animals significantly lowered the phase-I enzymes (NADPH-C reductase, cyt-p450 and cyt-b5)) and there was a rise in glutathione-metabolizing enzymes (GPx, GR and G6PDH), which indicated an antitumour and anti-cancer effect. Comparison of normal control mice and mice administered piperine only as drug control showed no significant variations in enzyme activities. Piprine administration to benzo(a)pyrene induced animals significantly increased the activities of mitochondrial enzymes, thereby suggesting its role in mitochondrial energy production.Chemopreventive effect of piperine on mitochondrial TCA cycle and phase-I and glutathione-metabolizing enzymes in benzo(a)pyrene induced lung carcinogenesis in Swiss albino mice.
Selvendiran K, Thirunavukkarasu C, Singh JP, Padmavathi R, Sakthisekaran D. Mol Cell Biochem. 2005 Mar;271(1-2):101-6.
Piperine is a major component of black (Piper nigrum Linn) and long pepper (Piper longum Linn) used widely in various systems of traditional medicine. We have evaluated the effect of piperine on mitochondrial tricarboxylic acid cycle and phase I and glutathione-metabolizing enzymes in Benzo(a)pyrene induced experimental lung carcinogenesis in swiss albino mice. Lung cancer bearing mice showed a significant decrease in the activities of mitochondrial enzymes-isocitrate dehydrogenase (ICDH), -ketoglutarate dehydrogenase (KDH), succinate dehydrogenase (SDH), malate dehydrogenase (MDH) and significantly increased NADPH-Cytochorome reductase (NADPH-C reductase), cytochrome P450 (cyt-p450) and cytochrome b5(cyt-b5). The activities of glutathione-metabolizing enzymes glutathione peroxidase(GPx), glutathione reductase (GR) and glucose-6-phospho dehydrogenase(G6PDH) were significantly lowered in lung-cancer bearing mice when compared with control mice.
Supplementation of piperine (50 mg/kg bwt) enhanced the detoxification enzymes and reduced DNA damage as determined by single cell electrophoresis. Furthermore, the DNA-Protein cross links which was found to be high in lung cancer bearing animals was also modulated upon supplementation with piperine. Our present results explain the understanding of unique association between anti-peroxidative effect of piperine and ultimately the capability of piperine to prevent cancer.Oral supplementation of piperine leads to altered phase II enzymes and reduced DNA damage and DNA-protein cross links in Benzo(a)pyrene induced experimental lung carcinogenesis. Selvendiran K, Banu SM, Sakthisekaran D. Mol Cell Biochem. 2005 Jan;268(1-2):141-7.
In recent years, considerable emphasis has been focused on identifying new chemopreventive agents, which could be useful for the human population. Piperine is a pure, pungent alkaloid constituent of black and long peppers (piper nigrum and piper longum), which is a most common spice used throughout the world. In the present study, we examined the protective role of piperine during experimental lung carcinogenesis with reference to its effect on DNA damage and detoxification enzyme system. The activities of detoxifying enzymes such as glutathione transferase (GST), quinone reductase (QR) and UDP-glucuronosyl transferase (UDP-GT) were found to be decreased while the hydrogen peroxide level was increased in the lung cancer bearing animals.
10-04-2011, 01:43 PM
Thank you for the reply judojosh. I understand how those supplements work and understand that in small quantities that they are not toxic. However that is not my main concern with the addition of those supplements. It is a contraindication for certain medications and or other supplements I use regularly. When I did use products containing liver enzyme inhibitors, it caused certain supplements and medications to build up to higher than normal circulating levels and as a result there were some unpleasant effects as a result of this. After doing some due diligience of my own I figured out the cause was due to those ingredients which inhibit cyp450 and other liver enzymes. After experiencing it for myself first hand I do not wish to have a repeat of my past experience and as a result I avoid any and all products that contain such liver enzyme inhibitors. I know for a fact that it was the addition of those enzyme inhibitors because I had taken many of the ingredients in those blends on their own or in a similar blended fashion without the addition of enzyme inhibitors. As I have been working out and taking supplements for many years, I have tried many supplements on their own and in combinations in order to assess their effectiveness individually and/or their possible synergistic effects when combined with other supplements.
Also, I would like to note that everyone's sensitivity to supplements is different as everyone's body chemistry is slightly different. Some people have naturally lower levels of those liver enzymes to begin with and by taking something that inhibits them even further from doing there job (even at scientfically proven non-toxic doses) can prove to be unwise. Personally I like to keep my liver healthy and happy. I have learned over the years that I feel best when my liver is being taken care of and is feeling its best. Therefore I place a higher priority on liver health and do whatever I can to help keep it clean, help it to do its job more efficiently, and to help it regenerate as quickly as possible.
I would also like to point out that you did not really even try to answer the original question I posted regarding how to use Dodder Seed on its own and rather just recommended a product for the company you rep for. I know that flightposite is also a rep for the same company but at the very least he tried to answer my question and tried to be helpful without just recommending a product. As such I appreciated his approach much more. Had you provided scientific studies and research on how to use Dodder Seed on its own instead of bioperine, I would have found the information invaluable as it would have helped to answer my original question or at the very least point me in the right direction while possibly creating some good discussion regarding this supplement that is still relativley little known and rarely discussed. Please do not take take any of this post as a knock against you or any of AI's products as I have many friends who take AI products and have nothing but good things to say about them, and it is my opinion that AI is a very good company with some very good top notch top quality products.
01-24-2012, 04:31 AM
hey i got some dodder from new zealand in an attempt to figure out what i liked so much about the product igf2. i had tried the other ingredients alone and have been dissappointed. i had read somewhere,before the label was changed, that a 10:1 extract was used. the stuff i got is the same extract, but it suggest 500mg up to three times daily. i ve been taking it about 1000mg 3x daily for two days now. havent noticed anything yet; does anyone understand how this stuff is supposed to affect the endocrine system? i mean, ive readstuff that said the pituiary and gonads got larger in rats or something, but i dont know what the active compound is or how it works
01-24-2012, 10:44 AM
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