BCAAs .. Do they need to be taken as stand alone supp?

[useyourhead]

This may seem like an elementary question, but hopefully someone can give me a solid answer. I've never really worried much about taking BCAAs outside of those naturally occurring in my protein powder. Is there a substantial benefit to taking BCAAs on their own as opposed to the 15-20G I am getting a day in protein shakes?

 

[mr.cooper69]

This may seem like an elementary question, but hopefully someone can give me a solid answer. I've never really worried much about taking BCAAs outside of those naturally occurring in my protein powder. Is there a substantial benefit to taking BCAAs on their own as opposed to the 15-20G I am getting a day in protein shakes?

Not much unless cutting in a heavy deficit.

 

[nattydisaster]

Not much unless cutting in a heavy deficit.

This

 

[josephd79]

Just to add my 2 cents. I found this quote:

During resting periods when other fuel sources, such as carbohydrates and fats, are available they spare the BCAA's from oxidation, leaving them available for use in protein synthesis which is what you want them to do - serve you by building muscle. The important thing is that although BCAA's account for only about 20% of the total amino acids in a protein meal they account for 50-90% of the total amino acids released into general circulation to be taken up by the muscles. BCAA's are the most abundant amino acids incorporated into muscle protein and make up 1/3 of this muscle.
They are also heavily catabolized (broken down and used for energy) during exercise. These 2 reasons plus the fact that the body can't make it's own BCAA's increases the need for BCAA's for athletes. {END QUOTE}

Though you're getting them from your protein sources, the amounts of BCAAs could be lower than you calculate. Some protein supplements specifically add BCAA's on top of the normal amount. They definitely don't hurt by adding them to your diet or preworkout drink. Xtend is a top seller across many online supp stores for a reason, but there are less expensive versions of BCAAs out there to try.

 

[useyourhead]

thanks guys. ill prob still keep taking a scoop pre or intra work out but that is about it.

 

[EasyEJL]

thanks guys. ill prob still keep taking a scoop pre or intra work out but that is about it.

it does seem to help with recovery taking it that way

 

[criticalbench]

I've found bcaa's and eaa's to be highly valuable when dieting and bulking. Had made tremendous differences for me.

Mike

 

[sofargone561]

i dont know any sciene behind it but i always put then in my drink druring my W/o

 

[808rebel]

Not much unless cutting in a heavy deficit.

i used to agree with this completely. But after taking BCAAs intra-workout, I realized that I recover quicker and I experience slightly better stamina throughout my workout..

 

[sofargone561]

i used to agree with this completely. But after taking BCAAs intra-workout, I realized that I recover quicker and I experience slightly better stamina throughout my workout..

i agree with this

 

[Clickster]

i used to agree with this completely. But after taking BCAAs intra-workout, I realized that I recover quicker and I experience slightly better stamina throughout my workout..

I also experience this. Good post.

 

[AutoKal47]

If I had to pick only one supplement would be BCAA

I remember the day i started megadosing them, it was one of those "oohhh-moment"
it's probably the sup that makes the most difference for me, for everything
recovery, endurance, strength.. It the base for everything else for me, the essential.

The ones contained in whey proteins are not the same as BCAA in free form
PS: to be noted that I'm always dieting..

my 2c

 

[sofargone561]

anybody recomend a bcaa? the one i have now i like especially becuase it was lik 30 bucks came with a dick load of servings and buy one get one free sale.

 

[EasyEJL]

anybody recomend a bcaa? the one i have now i like especially becuase it was lik 30 bucks came with a dick load of servings and buy one get one free sale.

Recoverpro is inexpensive and the flavor is spectacular

 

[josephd79]

Nutraplanet has 500Grams for $25. If you already have a preworkout, adding a scoop of this powder would be the most cost effective.

I've found the pills from other brands need too many at once. Like some are 6 caps for 3000mg of Leucine. The flavorless powders tend to not mix too well, but it's not bad. I think I said Xtend is a top seller for a reason. It mixes well and tastes great but is a little on the pricey side, for just BCAAs and Glutamine. (another MUST have, along the same lines of BCAAs).

 

[sofargone561]

Nutraplanet has 500Grams for $25. If you already have a preworkout, adding a scoop of this powder would be the most cost effective.

I've found the pills from other brands need too many at once. Like some are 6 caps for 3000mg of Leucine. The flavorless powders tend to not mix too well, but it's not bad. I think I said Xtend is a top seller for a reason. It mixes well and tastes great but is a little on the pricey side, for just BCAAs and Glutamine. (another MUST have, along the same lines of BCAAs).

i dont like xtend for the fact its big money for little servings i already have a pre workout and a huge tub of glutamine i was just looking for most cost affective BCAA supp

 

[AutoKal47]

anybody recomend a bcaa? the one i have now i like especially becuase it was lik 30 bucks came with a dick load of servings and buy one get one free sale.

I do 3kg of bulk and 3kg Xtend (1 x flavor), Xtend taste awesome,
and the flavors are very strong
I mix the two and have 6kg of flavored BCAA + the bonus ingredients from Xtend

 

[mshredded]

I do 3kg of bulk and 3kg Xtend (1 x flavor), Xtend taste awesome,
and the flavors are very strong
I mix the two and have 6kg of flavored BCAA + the bonus ingredients from Xtend

Doing this. Thanks for saving me some cash, might add some glutamine to make it closed to xtend properties.

 

[useyourhead]

If I had to pick only one supplement would be BCAA

I remember the day i started megadosing them, it was one of those "oohhh-moment"
it's probably the sup that makes the most difference for me, for everything
recovery, endurance, strength.. It the base for everything else for me, the essential.

The ones contained in whey proteins are not the same as BCAA in free form
PS: to be noted that I'm always dieting..

my 2c

what is the difference between free from BCAAs and those in naturally occurring in whey? Also what do you guys think of the modern BCAA product by USP? Also i've never looked deeply into EAA supplementation. Is that something worth looking into?

thanks for all the responses.

 

[RenegadeRows]

EAAs/BCAAs are extremely important IMO.

 

[OJay]

I am a big believer in bcaa supplementation I have them throughout the day and also during workout and if I don't have then for a specific period of time I can really notice the difference without a doubt.
Recovery is less and more doms after sessions

 

[criticalbench]

Recovery is less and more doms after sessions

You have more DOMS with bcaa's then without?

 

[chedapalooza]

Recoverpro is inexpensive and the flavor is spectacular

I have the recoverpro. I love it. I take one scoop immediately after my lift then I'll have a protein shake like 20 mins after that.. I'm wondering what the benefits of using it pre workout (fasted training) would be.. I'm worries using them will keep my body from burning fat n calories for energy... Using the bcaa instead! Thoughts? I am always dieting / trying to stay lean as possible. Is taking it immediately post workout stopping the calorie burning too though??

 

[AutoKal47]

You have more DOMS with bcaa's then without?

That might happen because you're able to push more/go back to the set faster..
I remember when I first started megadosing BCAA years ago it was like that.
But it's because you're hitting harder, wouldn't be because the BCAA cause that

 

[itzDodge]

I see a couple blanket BCAAs are good statements. Here's a simple low down

BCAAs, specifically Leucine, through their many mechanisms cause a spike in muscle protein synthesis(MPS). MPS has somewhat of a refractory period and BCAAs can be used to spike MPS every 3-4 hours. Your whey protein or a high protein meal should have very similar impacts on MPS and adding BCAAs to those meals won't cause a more intense spike, but BCAAs can be really quick and easy to get in every 3-4 hours with about 10 G each time. Spiking MPS every few hours can, over long periods with consistent usage, lead to significant impacts on muscle growth on a surplus, or muscle loss in times of a caloric deficit.

 

[EasyEJL]

I have the recoverpro. I love it. I take one scoop immediately after my lift then I'll have a protein shake like 20 mins after that.. I'm wondering what the benefits of using it pre workout (fasted training) would be.. I'm worries using them will keep my body from burning fat n calories for energy... Using the bcaa instead! Thoughts? I am always dieting / trying to stay lean as possible. Is taking it immediately post workout stopping the calorie burning too though??

if you count BCAA calories as per protein calories (which is iffy to begin with, their usage is different) a 1 scoop serving is 24 calories, so won't have much impact from that respect.

 

[EC99SS]

I do 3kg of bulk and 3kg Xtend (1 x flavor), Xtend taste awesome,
and the flavors are very strong
I mix the two and have 6kg of flavored BCAA + the bonus ingredients from Xtend

Hey now there's a great idea! I've never thought of that. Thanks for the heads up...now I know what I need to do to save some cash. Props!

 

[AutoKal47]

Hey now there's a great idea! I've never thought of that. Thanks for the heads up...now I know what I need to do to save some cash. Props!

No prob
I've been doin' that forever

 

[Colbert]

Keep in mind that amino acids also have calories so too much of it can turn into fat.

Just a random info

 

[AutoKal47]

Keep in mind that amino acids also have calories so too much of it can turn into fat.

Just a random info

Most bb megadosing BCAA are cutting, so calorie deficit, I wouldn't worry about that..
But yes of course, as everything else, the calories must be counted and macros need to be
in tune no matter from where the cals are coming

 

[criticalbench]

That might happen because you're able to push more/go back to the set faster..
I remember when I first started megadosing BCAA years ago it was like that.
But it's because you're hitting harder, wouldn't be because the BCAA cause that

Hmm good point. BCAA's have only decreased doms for me, but makes sense.

Mike

 

[mshredded]

Most bb megadosing BCAA are cutting, so calorie deficit, I wouldn't worry about that..
But yes of course, as everything else, the calories must be counted and macros need to be
in tune no matter from where the cals are coming

I realized I needed them when I cut down to 1600 calories, what megadosing would you recommend
?

 

[StackedCop]

I realized I needed them when I cut down to 1600 calories, what megadosing would you recommend?

I use 40-50 grams a day with 20 grams being around the time i train. Any higher then that and i would be broke!

 

[vivid2012]

THAT'S not a bad workout.

 

[AutoKal47]

I realized I needed them when I cut down to 1600 calories, what megadosing would you recommend
?

Yep, StakedCop dosage is mine as well,
40/50gr a day, 10gr pre, 10gr intra, 5grpwo, the rest you can do it before bed
or between meals depends on when you wo

 

[RenegadeRows]

I enjoy megadosing Leucine + Hydrowhey (Purple psyko)

25g Leucine
60g Hydrowhey (roughly)

Sipped on throughout the day! I've seen guys do it with xtend quite often.

 

[AustrianOakJr]

I see a couple blanket BCAAs are good statements. Here's a simple low down

BCAAs, specifically Leucine, through their many mechanisms cause a spike in muscle protein synthesis(MPS). MPS has somewhat of a refractory period and BCAAs can be used to spike MPS every 3-4 hours. Your whey protein or a high protein meal should have very similar impacts on MPS and adding BCAAs to those meals won't cause a more intense spike, but BCAAs can be really quick and easy to get in every 3-4 hours with about 10 G each time. Spiking MPS every few hours can, over long periods with consistent usage, lead to significant impacts on muscle growth on a surplus, or muscle loss in times of a caloric deficit.

YES ^^^ This is pretty much the simple low-down. MPS spikes can be stimulated with food, whey powder, etc. But the BCAA's are a handy way to do it. I use BCAA's for as protection against catabolism when I train in a calorie deficit. And you dont need much. A couple gram spike in Leucine specifically is probably all that is needed.

if you count BCAA calories as per protein calories (which is iffy to begin with, their usage is different) a 1 scoop serving is 24 calories, so won't have much impact from that respect.

Most bb megadosing BCAA are cutting, so calorie deficit, I wouldn't worry about that..
But yes of course, as everything else, the calories must be counted and macros need to be
in tune no matter from where the cals are coming

Well, guys that are mega-dosing are having multiple scoops of BCAA powder multiple times per day. So it certainly adds up. Not knowing the calorie content of BCAA's (or adding them into your meal plan) can make the difference between shredded and not-so-shredded.

IMOP, mega-dosing BCAA's is a waste of money. If you listen to what "itszDodge" is saying the main advantage is the "SPIKE" that BCAA's can cause. In order to have a "spike" you need to return to baseline for a period in order to spike again. According to the most recent research, this is most effective way to stimulate MPS and new muscle growth. Those that continuously chew on BCAA's all day long are actually doing themselves a diservice by cheating themselves out of the necessary refractory period before new MPS can occur again. However, supplement companies are very happy to take your money and tell you that mega-dosing is key to getting HYYYUGE.

You will notice that the amino content in NRC's ergo blitz is not as high as some other supps.......the reason for that is that its simply not needed to do what we want to do with the product (spike MPS). We can then take the money you would otherwise be paying for overdosed BCAA's and put that into other key ingredients for a more well-rounded pre/intra workout product.

 

[AutoKal47]

YES ^^^ This is pretty much the simple low-down. MPS spikes can be stimulated with food, whey powder, etc. But the BCAA's are a handy way to do it. I use BCAA's for as protection against catabolism when I train in a calorie deficit. And you dont need much. A couple gram spike in Leucine specifically is probably all that is needed.







Well, guys that are mega-dosing are having multiple scoops of BCAA powder multiple times per day. So it certainly adds up. Not knowing the calorie content of BCAA's (or adding them into your meal plan) can make the difference between shredded and not-so-shredded.

IMOP, mega-dosing BCAA's is a waste of money. If you listen to what "itszDodge" is saying the main advantage is the "SPIKE" that BCAA's can cause. In order to have a "spike" you need to return to baseline for a period in order to spike again. According to the most recent research, this is most effective way to stimulate MPS and new muscle growth. Those that continuously chew on BCAA's all day long are actually doing themselves a diservice by cheating themselves out of the necessary refractory period before new MPS can occur again. However, supplement companies are very happy to take your money and tell you that mega-dosing is key to getting HYYYUGE.

You will notice that the amino content in NRC's ergo blitz is not as high as some other supps.......the reason for that is that its simply not needed to do what we want to do with the product (spike MPS). We can then take the money you would otherwise be paying for overdosed BCAA's and put that into other key ingredients for a more well-rounded pre/intra workout product.

It all depends on what protocol/diet one's following.
I do IF, workout fasted and I wouldn't want an intra wo which most likely has
ingredients that are already in my prewo, even less an intra that has carbs in it
I take 80% of my BCAA around wo don't chew on 'em the whole day.
Also I wouldn't point BCAA as something that has a high calories x gr ratio,
I can hardly see the difference between being shredded and not so shredded laying in 20gr of BCAA..

 

[bla55]

Well, sorry to hijack this thread, but kinda.

So, is there any benefit to taking extra BCAAs is you're in a high protein diet? I.e. keto / metabolic diet?

 

[AustrianOakJr]

It all depends on what protocol/diet one's following.
I do IF, workout fasted and I wouldn't want an intra wo which most likely has
ingredients that are already in my prewo, even less an intra that has carbs in it
I take 80% of my BCAA around wo don't chew on 'em the whole day.
Also I wouldn't point BCAA as something that has a high calories x gr ratio,
I can hardly see the difference between being shredded and not so shredded laying in 20gr of BCAA..

If you are using BCAA's to spike MPS and/or ward off catabolism during training then you are benefitting. I dont believe there is additional benefit to taking 20g over just a few.

Can 20g of BCAA's make the diff between shredded and not shredded? It can if they arent a constant in your diet or they arent accounted for. Shedding fat comes down to being in a caloric deficit. Some guys crank the BCAA's thinking they are "free" calories and lessen their deficit. It many cases of mega-dosing, especially where they are sipped on all day long, it is much more advantageous metabolically to get your calories from carbohydrates rather than over-dosing on the protein.

Well, sorry to hijack this thread, but kinda.

So, is there any benefit to taking extra BCAAs is you're in a high protein diet? I.e. keto / metabolic diet?

IMOP, the main advantage of BCAA's is the absorption rate. You know they are in your system almost immediately after you ingest them. Thats beneficial right before or as you train. Other than that......no, there is no advantage over whole protein sources high in Leucine content.

 

[Gutterpump]

If I had to pick only one supplement would be BCAA

I remember the day i started megadosing them, it was one of those "oohhh-moment"
it's probably the sup that makes the most difference for me, for everything
recovery, endurance, strength.. It the base for everything else for me, the essential.

The ones contained in whey proteins are not the same as BCAA in free form
PS: to be noted that I'm always dieting..

my 2c

I agree with this.

But I would personally add to it that EAA's are even better, when added to BCAA's. I sip on them all day long and seem to have very little DOMS, and very quick recovery. I use them both when dieting or bulking. It helps recovery a ton. I add EAA's for the extra amino's but mainly due to the scare of elevated prolactin due to longterm BCAA mega-dosing. BCAA's don't have tyrosine (which is needed for dopamine production), so if you are mega-dosing BCAA's, the brain gets those amino's first before it gets the right amount of tyrosine needed for dopamine production. That's in simple terms. Here are the studies:

In conclusion, we found that the acute administration of a BCAA mixture in healthy men subjects is associated with increased prolactin levels and changes in a particular component process of decision-making related to attention to more recent events as compared to more distant events, thus altering the quality of one?s decisions.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2072533

So the workaround is to supplement EAA's with BCAA's when megadosing.

 

[AutoKal47]

I agree with this.

But I would personally add to it that EAA's are even better, when added to BCAA's. I sip on them all day long and seem to have very little DOMS, and very quick recovery. I use them both when dieting or bulking. It helps recovery a ton. I add EAA's for the extra amino's but mainly due to the scare of elevated prolactin due to longterm BCAA mega-dosing. BCAA's don't have tyrosine (which is needed for dopamine production), so if you are mega-dosing BCAA's, the brain gets those amino's first before it gets the right amount of tyrosine needed for dopamine production. That's in simple terms. Here are the studies:



So the workaround is to supplement EAA's with BCAA's when megadosing.

EAA's is something I've always meant to include in my sups and never did,
most def I will try that! Thanks

Can 20g of BCAA's make the diff between shredded and not shredded? It can if they arent a constant in your diet or they arent accounted for. Shedding fat comes down to being in a caloric deficit. Some guys crank the BCAA's thinking they are "free" calories and lessen their deficit. It many cases of mega-dosing, especially where they are sipped on all day long, it is much more advantageous metabolically to get your calories from carbohydrates rather than over-dosing on the protein.

I don't know man..
I don't eat carbs pretty much at all and I megadose BCAA
(around wo, not over the whole day), and I'm able to keep this BF all year round

 

[vpower]

This may seem like an elementary question, but hopefully someone can give me a solid answer. I've never really worried much about taking BCAAs outside of those naturally occurring in my protein powder. Is there a substantial benefit to taking BCAAs on their own as opposed to the 15-20G I am getting a day in protein shakes?

I always mix them in with my karbolyn powder pre and post workout in addition to my normal protein shake

 

[AustrianOakJr]

I don't know man..
I don't eat carbs pretty much at all and I megadose BCAA
(around wo, not over the whole day), and I'm able to keep this BF all year round

You have a fantastic physique. No doubt about it. Its obvious you work very hard. But you can point to various athletes in fantastic condition all of which are following different protocols. My point is that some people achieve fantastic results with a less than optimal approach to diet and training. They look great in-spite of what they do. And just because you try one particular method and it works, doesnt mean its the BEST method there is.

You can take a look through my photo gallery......and I can tell you that was achieved eating as many carbs as possible and having 5g of BCAA's per day intra-workout only. So what? It doesnt NECESSARILY lend any credence to my argument.

The fact that you are a performance athlete doing glycogen-fueled work in the gym without carbohydrates in your diet tells me you are probably not doing things optimally. Dont get me wrong.....im not the be-all and end-all. Ive got a lot of work to do myself and im sure there is plenty more for me to learn. One thing I KNOW......the minute I think I have it all figured out, im in trouble.

BTW, just so we are clear.....I dont think there is anything wrong per se with 20g of BCAA's pre workout. I wouldnt really consider that "mega dosing". There was a time that I was doing 10-15g a day.....its really not a lot. Some guys will easily double that, sipping through the day. Pointless, IMOP.

 

[itzDodge]

Holy ****, you an dat der cell tech? just messing around but nice physique mang

 

[AutoKal47]

Holy ****, you an dat der cell tech? just messing around but nice physique mang

lol gotta love der cell tech never gets old

You have a fantastic physique. No doubt about it. Its obvious you work very hard. But you can point to various athletes in fantastic condition all of which are following different protocols. My point is that some people achieve fantastic results with a less than optimal approach to diet and training. They look great in-spite of what they do. And just because you try one particular method and it works, doesnt mean its the BEST method there is.

You can take a look through my photo gallery......and I can tell you that was achieved eating as many carbs as possible and having 5g of BCAA's per day intra-workout only. So what? It doesnt NECESSARILY lend any credence to my argument.

The fact that you are a performance athlete doing glycogen-fueled work in the gym without carbohydrates in your diet tells me you are probably not doing things optimally. Dont get me wrong.....im not the be-all and end-all. Ive got a lot of work to do myself and im sure there is plenty more for me to learn. One thing I KNOW......the minute I think I have it all figured out, im in trouble.

BTW, just so we are clear.....I dont think there is anything wrong per se with 20g of BCAA's pre workout. I wouldnt really consider that "mega dosing". There was a time that I was doing 10-15g a day.....its really not a lot. Some guys will easily double that, sipping through the day. Pointless, IMOP.

I actually think our thought in the matter is way closer than it sounds

I agree, I've never said the protocol I'm using is better than anyone else's,
actually, it's pretty weird and I think for the most part it wouldn't work on the vast majority of
people. But my point is not my protocol really, I don't sell BCAA

This is a board and like in every board we report our experiences and what works
for us, I in the first place have so much to learn (and this is why I'm here) and even more
work to do.

Different approaches work for different athletes, that's the point, I agree. There's more than one way to skin a cat
My thought was that more people seem to be carb sensitive as opposed to BCAA sensitive.
I myself look like a blowfish if I eat 200gr carbs the next day, I'm sure in the same way
some people experience fat gains from protein overloads.

I most def don't have everything figured out, but I see sometimes
people following protocols blindly as opposed to pay more attention to
what really works for them, what their bodies tell them and how they react to
a given theory.

Theories and proven protocols are not only a good starting point, but probably THE starting
point, then there's practice and that changes things wildly..

Anyways, I didn't want to annoy you or come out in the wrong way, really
if I did I'm sorry man

 

[RickRock13]

EAA's is something I've always meant to include in my sups and never did,
most def I will try that! Thanks

I don't know man..
I don't eat carbs pretty much at all and I megadose BCAA
(around wo, not over the whole day), and I'm able to keep this BF all year round

Very nice physique my man. I too use BCAAs all the time megadosed before workout and after workout. I also do intermittent fasting with the intent to stay lean year round.

I know you do very little carbs, but how is the rest of your diet with Cal's and macro ratios? What do they look like for bulking? I'm in that boat now and just comparing notes with someone who obviously has succeeded at it

 

[Blergs]

This may seem like an elementary question, but hopefully someone can give me a solid answer. I've never really worried much about taking BCAAs outside of those naturally occurring in my protein powder. Is there a substantial benefit to taking BCAAs on their own as opposed to the 15-20G I am getting a day in protein shakes?

if your cutting and on low cals then BCAA's and water are greta to helphold on to muscle. also PostWO its nice ot have extra BCAA's but not needed.
I liekthe Powerchews BCAA's rightnow, a nice sub for candy and helps with muscle building.

if money is tight stick to whey protien and just have extra of that is my op.

 

[Blergs]

Very nice physique my man. I too use BCAAs all the time megadosed before workout and after workout. I also do intermittent fasting with the intent to stay lean year round.

I know you do very little carbs, but how is the rest of your diet with Cal's and macro ratios? What do they look like for bulking? I'm in that boat now and just comparing notes with someone who obviously has succeeded at it

same here, morso after workout

 

[Blergs]

EAA's is something I've always meant to include in my sups and never did,
most def I will try that! Thanks




I don't know man..
I don't eat carbs pretty much at all and I megadose BCAA
(around wo, not over the whole day), and I'm able to keep this BF all year round

I dont think its very healthy not to eat carbs at all, all the time, at least from veggies ect. should be in there. but you do look good, just wouldent do that year round.