Nutricion store guy recomends this stack for mass building (prohormones) good?

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    Nutricion store guy recomends this stack for mass building (prohormones) good?


    Researched each part individually, but I'm wondering what you think of the stack.
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    Awful, awful idea with that "PCT" and milk thistle is not enough for recovery supplements. Basically, the guy is an idiot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    Awful, awful idea with that "PCT" and milk thistle is not enough for recovery supplements. Basically, the guy is an idiot.
    What would you Reccomend as Recovery instead? What's a similar stack but better?
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    Terrible

    I bet everyone reads the fat thing and takes their prohormones with mcdonalds
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    Starting Stats? Age, weight, experience, etc.
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    2 LITERS of water a day?! I drink more than that in the course of a workout. And I'm guessing Methoxyvol is a flavone product?

    Definitely an incomplete PCT too...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    Starting Stats? Age, weight, experience, etc.
    20, 175, 2 years experience. Stats: bench: maybe 190 if I maxed. Squat: 235x4, DL: 320x5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    20, 175, 2 years experience. Stats: bench: maybe 190 if I maxed. Squat: 235x4, DL: 320x5
    You're far too young and inexperienced to be thinking about anything hormonal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    You're far too young and inexperienced to be thinking about anything hormonal.
    Whys that? You hear that a lot but what's the reason behind it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    Whys that? You hear that a lot but what's the reason behind it?
    It takes time and experience to make a foundation. Only 2 years experience makes you a baby and not ready physically and mentally for hormones. Not to mention you should wait until you're at least 21 at the absolute earliest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    It takes time and experience to make a foundation. Only 2 years experience makes you a baby and not ready physically and mentally for hormones. Not to mention you should wait until you're at least 21 at the absolute earliest.
    What is physically and mentally not ready about me? Specifically? Those sound like generalizations that might not or might apply to me
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    I would think you would want experience so you don't waste the cycle and get little to no gains because you suck at lifting. Where 2 years of quality lifting would suffice if you know what your doing. Right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    What is physically and mentally not ready about me? Specifically? Those sound like generalizations that might not or might apply to me
    You're only 20 years old with 2 years training and 175 lbs. You haven't spent the necessary time in the gym to think about hormones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    You're only 20 years old with 2 years training and 175 lbs. You haven't spent the necessary time in the gym to think about hormones.
    But your stil not givin me any reasons. Your just saying stuff. WHY do I need more time. Is what I'm asking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    But your stil not givin me any reasons. Your just saying stuff. WHY do I need more time. Is what I'm asking
    Bc you have no idea what you're doing. You went to a store and asked for something to get bigger instead of focusing on your training and nutrition. Not only are they hormonal in nature, but you obviously have no clue what a PCT really is. Like I said, you're too young and not ready. It's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.
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    I bet everyone reads the fat thing and takes their prohormones with mcdonalds
    LMAO+++

    But your stil not givin me any reasons. Your just saying stuff. WHY do I need more time. Is what I'm asking
    We're not being deuche bags, were just trying to help you so you dnt have F***ed up hormone levels later on and screw up ur endocrine system. At 20 you dnt need to worry about gear bc, correct me if im wrong yall, you test levels are already at their HIGHEST they will ever be, naturally. Take advantage of that... You test levels really wont start to wane off untill like 25 and then really decrease at around 28.

    As far as how long youve been training, 2 years, thats not TOO early but you should really drag it out until you've got a good 4-5yrs under ur belt. The reason for this, My reason i guess, is I would look at my body like a house. I want a really soild foundation b4 I start adding a pool and tennis court on the second and third floors.lol

    Is it gonna Kill you if you start them now? probably not. Is it a waste to not take advantage of what ur body is already giving you? Yaa

    There is so many other things you can put in your body to get great results, for now. (Diet, other supplements)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Bc you have no idea what you're doing. You went to a store and asked for something to get bigger instead of focusing on your training and nutrition. Not only are they hormonal in nature, but you obviously have no clue what a PCT really is. Like I said, you're too young and not ready. It's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.
    I'm at work and have nothing better to do so I might as well argue over the Internet. So...I went to a new health store to see what he had, ended up trying a new protein. Didn't even know what prohormones were, he mentioned these sell really well blah blah. It intrigued me. I'm currently doing research and learning. I'm sure you had to learn one time. Pct is when you try to regulate your test levels to start producing on their own if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention your argument of only 2 years is just wrong and you can't provide any legit evidence no matter how hard I'm begging of why it is actually not a good idea. And you use yor age as leverage as if that makes you better than me. So basically, you might be right but your Terrible at proving it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    I'm at work and have nothing better to do so I might as well argue over the Internet. So...I went to a new health store to see what he had, ended up trying a new protein. Didn't even know what prohormones were, he mentioned these sell really well blah blah. It intrigued me. I'm currently doing research and learning. I'm sure you had to learn one time. Pct is when you try to regulate your test levels to start producing on their own if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention your argument of only 2 years is just wrong and you can't provide any legit evidence no matter how hard I'm begging of why it is actually not a good idea. And you use yor age as leverage as if that makes you better than me. So basically, you might be right but your Terrible at proving it.
    It's not the age; it's the experience. At your age, all you need to do is bust your ass in the gym and eat and eat a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    It's not the age; it's the experience. At your age, all you need to do is bust your ass in the gym and eat and eat a lot.
    But if I can make better gains busting butt eating a lot AND taking hormones. Why not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    But if I can make better gains busting butt eating a lot AND taking hormones. Why not?
    Just forget it. You're not going to listen to anything I say. What makes you think you'll be able to maintain any of the gains you make on cycle since you don't know the very basics of organizing a cycle? This is what I am talking about when I say you're too young and inexperienced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Just forget it. You're not going to listen to anything I say. What makes you think you'll be able to maintain any of the gains you make on cycle since you don't know the very basics of organizing a cycle? This is what I am talking about when I say you're too young and inexperienced.
    Finally you give at least one reason. And I'm not saying I'm doing a cycle tomorrow. What's it look like I'm doing? Research? I'm not a kid who just saw candy In a store. I'm a 20 year old who understands that you have to have a correct stack and eat enough, train enough, etc etc. And I'm researching to find out what is good. Now can you help me by maybe saying why it's not good enough? Explain soothing to me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    Finally you give at least one reason. And I'm not saying I'm doing a cycle tomorrow. What's it look like I'm doing? Research? I'm not a kid who just saw candy In a store. I'm a 20 year old who understands that you have to have a correct stack and eat enough, train enough, etc etc. And I'm researching to find out what is good. Now can you help me by maybe saying why it's not good enough? Explain soothing to me?
    I explained plenty to you, but you ignored it. What does your diet look like? That's what you should be focusing on instead of oral steroids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    I explained plenty to you, but you ignored it. What does your diet look like? That's what you should be focusing on instead of oral steroids.
    40,40,20 4000 calories a day, gain about 1.5 lbs a week when I eat enough. Which I use to not cause I was being lazy. Been consistently gaining for couple months now. Have gone from 130-175 in last 2 years of lifting overall.
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    You're 20 years old, your body is producing more than enough testosterone to make you bigger. Prohormones shut down your natural production. You risk permanently damaging your hpta. Do you want to have kids? If you simply adjust your diet and eat more you will have more keepable gains. No ones bagging on you just trying to educate thru tough love.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsexy74
    You're 20 years old, your body is producing more than enough testosterone to make you bigger. Prohormones shut down your natural production. You risk permanently damaging your hpta. Do you want to have kids? If you simply adjust your diet and eat more you will have more keepable gains. No ones bagging on you just trying to educate thru tough love.
    Unless I'm an extomorph with sucky genes with low t? I mean I obviously have enough to gain. But it might take me 2 years to gain what I could in 6 months. Why waste time? And is there any real evidence of permanent damage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    40,40,20 4000 calories a day, gain about 1.5 lbs a week when I eat enough. Which I use to not cause I was being lazy. Been consistently gaining for couple months now. Have gone from 130-175 in last 2 years of lifting overall.
    That says everything I needed to hear. You admittedly lack consistency with your diet, which will get you subpar results. Focus on that for another 5 years and then reconsider adding in exogenous hormones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    That says everything I needed to hear. You admittedly lack consistency with your diet, which will get you subpar results. Focus on that for another 5 years and then reconsider adding in exogenous hormones.
    I did. I specifically said I did. I don't need you to tell me if I can commit to eating enough or not. Only one person knows if I can and that's me. And I can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    I did. I specifically said I did. I don't need you to tell me if I can commit to eating enough or not. Only one person knows if I can and that's me. And I can.
    You're a waste of time kid. This is exactly what's wrong with this generation; all they want is instant gratification and aren't willing to put in the necessary work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    You're a waste of time kid. This is exactly what's wrong with this generation; all they want is instant gratification and aren't willing to put in the necessary work.
    Why is wasting time a good thing? I'm not saying I'd trade my life for it. But if you could get it in 6 months thn why wait? I don understand why wasting time is logical
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    Why is wasting time a good thing? I'm not saying I'd trade my life for it. But if you could get it in 6 months thn why wait? I don understand why wasting time is logical
    How is dedication and paying your dues in the gym wasting your time? Why is using something that you're not prepared for logical?
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    do you not care about the long term effects this could have? yeah, a lot of people are *******s when it comes to gathering info about ph's, but youre basically shrugging off peoples (especially rodja's) advice. youre TWENTY years old, as everyone has already said, your test levels are already ridiculously high, take advantage of that rather than taking something thats going to mess up your levels (or other body parts/organs) in the long run.

    im not, nor would i ever claim to be, an expert in this field. but using synthetic hormones at this point will likely have a negative impact on your body. its not one of those things where its like 'oh, im 20, im past puberty and have finished growing', your body is still changing in ways you cant see with regards to stuff like hormone levels. its not a good idea to play around with them right now, nor do you really need to.

    if there was ONE thing i could change, i wouldnt have wasted all those years in high school and beginning of college eating like 2000 calories a day so i 'dont get fat' while somehow trying to gain muscle mass and strength. you already make great gains when you eat... why not take advantage of the fact that you can have ph-esque gains naturally (when you try)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    How is dedication and paying your dues in the gym wasting your time? Why is using something that you're not prepared for logical?
    You haven't told me why I'm not prepared for it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    You haven't told me why I'm not prepared for it
    BC you're too young and inexperienced. You have no idea what a PCT is and don't have a consistent diet. How many times do I have to say it!?!?!?!?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86
    do you not care about the long term effects this could have? yeah, a lot of people are *******s when it comes to gathering info about ph's, but youre basically shrugging off peoples (especially rodja's) advice. youre TWENTY years old, as everyone has already said, your test levels are already ridiculously high, take advantage of that rather than taking something thats going to mess up your levels (or other body parts/organs) in the long run.

    im not, nor would i ever claim to be, an expert in this field. but using synthetic hormones at this point will likely have a negative impact on your body. its not one of those things where its like 'oh, im 20, im past puberty and have finished growing', your body is still changing in ways you cant see with regards to stuff like hormone levels. its not a good idea to play around with them right now, nor do you really need to.

    if there was ONE thing i could change, i wouldnt have wasted all those years in high school and beginning of college eating like 2000 calories a day so i 'dont get fat' while somehow trying to gain muscle mass and strength. you already make great gains when you eat... why not take advantage of the fact that you can have ph-esque gains naturally (when you try)?
    I'm not shrugging it off. He's not giving advice. He's saying I'm not ready but won't give any legit proof or reasons. And your all assuming I have high T cause I'm young. What if my T is that of a 35 year old cause if my genetics? Hmm? Then where are my huge gains from eating coming from?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    BC you're too young and inexperienced. You have no idea what a PCT is and don't have a consistent diet. How many times do I have to say it!?!?!?!?!?
    You haven't said why young and inexperienced is bad. And I'm not taking anything until I know all about it. So instead of saying I don't know about PCT why font you inform me about it? Am I supposed to just magically know what it I'd when I turn 25 or something
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    You haven't said why young and inexperienced is bad. And I'm not taking anything until I know all about it. So instead of saying I don't know about PCT why font you inform me about it? Am I supposed to just magically know what it I'd when I turn 25 or something
    Let's put it this way: would you enter a professional MMA fight with just a few weeks of training? No because you'd get you head bashed in by your opponent. That's why young and inexperienced is bad with hormones bc you don't know what the **** you're doing.
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    I thought I made some very good points, not to sound like deuche bag. And everyone on here is not trying to "keep" you from anything other than ****ing urself over down the road. Like Rodja said, You had no clue what a PCT was/is and without a CONSISTANT diet ur jus wasting money. For someone who has been on the forums for over 4 years and over
    15,000+
    posts that deserves a lil respect, if nothing else listen to what he says.
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    he won't listen to anybody....f*** it go for it, double up your dosage for "faster" instant gratification. i mean why take 6 weeks on a an oral when you can double the dose and get the gains in 3 weeks right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stri8ted25
    I thought I made some very good points, not to sound like deuche bag. And everyone on here is not trying to "keep" you from anything other than ****ing urself over down the road. Like Rodja said, You had no clue what a PCT was/is and without a CONSISTANT diet ur jus wasting money. For someone who has been on the forums for over 4 years and over posts that deserves a lil respect, if nothing else listen to what he says.
    Okay just because in not an expert on cycles right now doesn't mean I won't know more through research. Once again, IM NOT PLANNING A CYCLE UNTIL I KNOW WHAT IM DOING. So when I'm 20, 175lbs, 2 years experience, very dedicated. I know I'm willing to diet right, AND I know all about PCTs then why not do a cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nistau View Post
    You haven't told me why I'm not prepared for it
    Buddy, your annoying as all hell. Try doing some research on YOUR OWN instead of being hand fed information. Or trying to be hand fed
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