Best non ph/steroid supplement for strength?

[CaptainSlentz]

Hey guys, just wondering what is currently considered the best non ph/steroid supplement/stack for the best pure strength gains? Thanks!

 

[Whacked]

Nothing OTC and hormone free can hang with good ole Creatine bro

Other things like carbs (when used appropriately + timed correctly), Beta-Alanine, Test boosters, BCAA's (maybe), stimulant (research-proven-perfomance), and ECD are a few others than come to mind.

 

[rms80]

I really like HGH-Up for this purpose- the product has a very noticeable effect on muscular contraction, especially if you take it pre-workout. HGH-Up stacked with Black Cats pre-workout will enhance this effect even more...

 

[GQNemesis]

I luv pct assist + Agmatine

Other option is MCC or creatine mono(worked great for me too)

 

[Young Gotti]

Phytoserms helped me with strength better than any other test booster i've tried

a quality protein, creatine mono, and good sleep (need2sleep) would really help as well

 

[jumpshot903]

Honestly high doses of Natadrol have done wonders for my strength its relatively cheap you find bottles for 20$ im just about to finish up 5 bottles and i loved it my strength and vascularity went way up and i leaned out.

But as mentioned honestly creatine and a solid diet is the safest bet for consitent results everyone else varies on different OTC products me i personally don't see much other then a boost in libido i don't see that much in strength gains may just be the products ive used but i stick to creatine and BCAA and protein with the occasional Natadrol run.

 

[kingjameskjf]

Either MCC or creatine mono and DAA

 

[rulk22]

Phyto Testosterone
TCF-1
Prime
COP and or Creapure creatine

And Young Gotti, do you really have a product called Need2sleep?

 

[fueledpassion]

The best success I have had in strength is
- cleaning up my diet (removing restaurant meals, processed foods, saturated fats, and empty carbs)
- LEAN GAINS DIETING/IF
- Fasted Training

To give you an idea, I started out at 162lbs fresh off a cycle of Phera and Tren. My BF was around 13%. My lifts then were approx:

Bench Press ~ 185 X 10 (at best)
Squats ~ 265 X 4
Smith Machine Calf Raises ~ 315 for 45 seconds (raise and hold)

Granted..I was shut down really hard on these numbers. For the next 4-6 weeks mt test levels floated around 300-330 range which is pretty crappy. After more Clomid therapy and the said changes above I saw these results below..

I've lost over 14lbs now and if I'd guess I'm probably around 9-10% BF. Currently not taking any supplements (not even whey) and my lifts are:

Incline Bench Press ~ 225 X 4
Squats ~ 275 X 5 or 6 reps
Smith Machine Calf Raises ~ 405 for 45 seconds (raise and hold)

Other various tricep routines I perform on the pulley machines have increased anywhere from 20-50 lbs.

Basically, I'm eluding to the fact that supplementation is not needed to see the best results. Diet, training routine and androgens are what works and since you have expressed the lack of interest in androgens then stick with a good diet with proper meal timing and get leaner/stronger!

 

[TheMeatus101]

Creatine Nitrate and AnaBeta.

 

[TheMeatus101]

And Young Gotti, do you really have a product called Need2sleep?

Lol, that ****'s great.

 

[Young Gotti]

Phyto Testosterone
TCF-1
Prime
COP and or Creapure creatine

And Young Gotti, do you really have a product called Need2sleep?

yes we do, it's the best sleep product i've ever tried, including but not limited to almost all otc gh products

 

[owlicks]

I've had quite the good run of Divanex + DAA + Creatine Nitrate this past month. I have put on a solid 5 lbs or so, which is damned impressive given the fact that I was plateauing and these are non-PH supplements. If you're going to do that though, you have to make sure you are smart with your nutrition.

 

[John33]

I really like HGH-Up for this purpose- the product has a very noticeable effect on muscular contraction, especially if you take it pre-workout. HGH-Up stacked with Black Cats pre-workout will enhance this effect even more...

I really like Black Cats for a nice, non-jittery energy boost. I would like to try HGH-Up, but was told that there are no samples (is that true, by the way?). So I cannot comment on HGH-Up, but I am currently on the RPM+DRIVE+Fierce stack and I like it.

 

[gymrat827]

if your strictly mean non hormonal than creatine is it. maybe anabeta but it is still pretty new.

 

[TheMeatus101]

DAA + Creatine Nitrate

This.

 

[TheMeatus101]

Either

DAA + Creatine Nitrate (C-BOL)

or

AnaBeta + Creatine Nitrate (C-BOL)

 

[JudgementDay]

Adamantium and Anabeta would be nice for strength gains. Add in a good nitrate pre-workout like Anabolic Ignite.

 

[T50]

yes we do, it's the best sleep product i've ever tried, including but not limited to almost all otc gh products

It works, too expensive though.

And Con-Cret or Trinitine for strength.

 

[Young Gotti]

It works, too expensive though.

And Con-Cret or Trinitine for strength.

after the 15%, it's $23, at suggested doses it'll last 75 days.....personally i take only 1 cap a day so it lasts 150 days so roughly 5 months...the stuff i was taking that was comparable was $20 for 60 days

but i can see what your saying, for just a sleep product, it appears pricey but i also compare that price vs the gh products that are out there and promoted to help with sleep that fail in that category

 

[andrew732]

Besides creatine; Anabeta, DAA, PhytoSerms and N2KTS have all shot my strength up

 

[R1balla]

AnaBeta, Prime (hit or miss), DAA

 

[flightposite]

Creatine o phosphate
Creatine pyruvate
Natadrol
Hghup
Drive
Triazole
Freetest

All of the above work great for me but natadrol is as close as it gets to a pro hormone for me In terms of strength and muscle mass.

 

[T50]

after the 15%, it's $23, at suggested doses it'll last 75 days.....personally i take only 1 cap a day so it lasts 150 days so roughly 5 months...the stuff i was taking that was comparable was $20 for 60 days

but i can see what your saying, for just a sleep product, it appears pricey but i also compare that price vs the gh products that are out there and promoted to help with sleep that fail in that category

I just 300 of this

Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: One (1) Tablet
Amount Per Serving - % Daily Value:
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 5 mg - 250%, Calcium (as Dicalcium Phosphate) 52 mg - 5%, Melatonin 3 mg - **, L-Theanine 25 mg - **, Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) 25 mg - **, Proprietary Herbal Blend [Chamomile Extract (Matricaria chamomilla)(flower) Valerian Extract (Valeriana officinalis)(root)] 8.5 mg - **.

For $6.49 lol

 

[mr.cooper69]

I just 300 of this

Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: One (1) Tablet
Amount Per Serving - % Daily Value:
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 5 mg - 250%, Calcium (as Dicalcium Phosphate) 52 mg - 5%, Melatonin 3 mg - **, L-Theanine 25 mg - **, Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) 25 mg - **, Proprietary Herbal Blend [Chamomile Extract (Matricaria chamomilla)(flower) Valerian Extract (Valeriana officinalis)(root)] 8.5 mg - **.

For $6.49 lol

This is essentially just melatonin lol

 

[T50]

This is essentially just melatonin lol

It's pixie dusted, but whatever, still knocks me out. And anyway, for a more fair comparison

150 6mg Melatonin (with pixie dust) - $6.49
100 475mg Valerian Root - $2.69
120 50mg 5-HTP - $6.89

So longer supply for $16.07

 

[Young Gotti]

That's a nice find, just curious if that amount of valerian root disrupts ur sleep or gives u such vivid dreams that u don't feel as rested?

 

[T50]

That's a nice find, just curious if that amount of valerian root disrupts ur sleep or gives u such vivid dreams that u don't feel as rested?

O I don't take what I just posted...was doing it for comparison vs N2Sleep. I only take the Melatonin + pixie dust lol, and only on nights when I feel I need it/know I have time to sleep extra.

 

[Young Gotti]

O I don't take what I just posted...was doing it for comparison vs N2Sleep. I only take the Melatonin + pixie dust lol, and only on nights when I feel I need it/know I have time to sleep extra.

got ya, i can't take the pixie dust...gaba keeps me up all night long

 

[southpaw23]

Creatine Nitrate + Anabeta + DAA and Triazole, this will be my next stack. I've gained some muscle size and definition on Anabeta alone in a little over 3 weeks. It flat out works.

 

[delsolrob]

P-Slin with ~100g of carbs about 90 minutes before hitting the gym...(oh how I love toasted WW PB and banana sandwiches)

 

[delsolrob]

nothing is more tried and true than creatine mono though

 

[rms80]

Yeah- we don't really do samples for HGH-Up- PM me and maybe I can hook something up.....

 

[classic34]

In my experience arachidonic acid has been excellent for strength given that you are not overdoing your training volume.
Also, I would suspect that Generate would also work well if you are dosing high enough and with proper timing. It seems to work similarly to the GHRPs and has many of the same effects in users which would lead me to believe that it would be good for strength.

 

[nattydisaster]

Creatine Nitrate and AnaBeta.

Si, si

 

[John33]

yes we do, it's the best sleep product i've ever tried, including but not limited to almost all otc gh products

Do not know about OTC GH products, but the best product I have ever tried for sleep is Knock-Out by Schiff. Their Melatonin Plus is also good, but Knock-Out is, well, a knockout, it works great.

 

[MM11]

Di creatine malate + beta alanine is king but really takes a month or two to notice effects but it's cheap.

ArA

Rpm for pre work out

Those are my go to strength favorites in that order.

 

[Young Gotti]

Hmm never heard of schiff just scivations, did a quick google on my phone, looks close to need 2 sleep with the trade off of one ingriedent

 

[UNCnate]

TestoPRO is great for strength gains. I can't wait until I can stack TestoPRO with the DAA we've started carrying. The Ultimate testosterone boosting combo.

 

[R1balla]

i prefer IGF 2 over HGHup any day

 

[John33]

It's pixie dusted, but whatever, still knocks me out. And anyway, for a more fair comparison

150 6mg Melatonin (with pixie dust) - $6.49

Pixie dusted? Please explain.

 

[John33]

i prefer IGF 2 over HGHup any day

I have heard a lot of good things about IGF 2, but why is it better than HGH-UP.

 

[T50]

Pixie dusted? Please explain.

Some of the ingredients that are in it are a fraction of what the correct dose should be.

 

[abformulations]

Creatine mono
Natadrol imo worked the best
Believe it or not Pink magic

 

[kingjameskjf]

got ya, i can't take the pixie dust...gaba keeps me up all night long

I take 3-5 grams of GABA and it helps me sleep

 

[Young Gotti]

I take 3-5 grams of GABA and it helps me sleep

i can't do it, anything with gaba in it keeps me up all night, i get warm and stuff, it's odd

 

[kingjameskjf]

i can't do it, anything with gaba in it keeps me up all night, i get warm and stuff, it's odd

I've heard of that happening to a couple people. If I go over 5g then I get the parastesia tingles but I still sleep fine.

 

[delsolrob]

Pixie dusted? Please explain.

Some of the ingredients that are in it are a fraction of what the correct dose should be.

I may be mistaken, but I believe pixie dusting is the act of adding small amounts of controlled substances to products to give them an edge that would not be likely with natural sources.

an example of this from a few years back was a protein manufacturer adding clen to their protein that was advertised to help you get lean...

 

[kingjameskjf]

one of us is confused about the term "Pixie Dusted"

I may be mistaken, but I believe pixie dusting is the act of adding small amounts of controlled substances to products to give them an edge that would not be likely with natural sources.

an example of this from a few years back was a protein manufacturer adding clen to their protein that was advertised to help you get lean...

I think that's more of illegally spiking a product. I've always taken pixie dusting to be: adding a nominal amount of an ingredient to have a label claim but not be an effective dose. Basically it's severe underdosing.

 

[R1balla]

I have heard a lot of good things about IGF 2, but why is it better than HGH-UP.

it boosts GH in a different way than HGHup. sleep is also better off of it. no joke, best OTC sleep