Need 2 Slin on a Cut=Great.. but what about a Bulk?

mich29

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I'm hoping to get thoughts from everyone on this one so I'm offering reps for anyone who can help with this.

I've looked over Need 2 Slin quite a bit and have found great reviews from those using it on a cut or a recomp..but I haven't really found anyone using this as a bulking agent so I thought I would pose the question how would you use Need 2 Slin on a bulk.I've researched those that use real slin and have thought about following those protocols somewhat but want to see how you guys feels about this.
 
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MakaveliThaDon

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I think the consensus will be that if your on a bulk. The area of usefulness on n2slin is really going to shine in the department of being able to keep some of the excess fat off of you while you do it. From personal experience, and most of the guys that I know, that's really what they notice the most with n2slin when taking it on a bulk.

I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences as well.
 
TheDarkHalf

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I would start off with 2 caps before each meal with a large amount of carbs.....for me that's breakfast, pre workout and post workout
 
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MakaveliThaDon

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As fantastic as N2S looks, I wouldn't use it on a bulk due to the high gymnema content.
explain. Are you thinking because gymnema is a GDA that it might be hard to pack on mass?
 
Steelwolf

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I used a nutrient partitioner while on a bulk while Shelby Starnes and I think it was one of the BEST ideas ever.
 
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mr.cooper69

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explain. Are you thinking because gymnema is a GDA that it might be hard to pack on mass?
Not at all. Gymnemia has demonstrated that one of its primary functions is the blocking/delaying of carbohydrate absorption. I wouldn't want my carbohydrates blocked on a bulk. 1-2 a day may be ok, depending on when it's taken.
 
RickRock13

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IMO I would stick to the 3 per day spread out dosing for Need2slin whether its with a bulk, cut, or recomp. It is effective at that dose with all those goals in mind. Your bottle will go a long way,it will be very efficient, and you get the great benefits of a nutrient partitioner without hindering carbohydrate absorption. A win win!! :)
 
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MakaveliThaDon

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That's why I really like Gymnema 75%! :)
THIS ftw. I picked up some bulk powder of the 75% extract. Which isn't easy to come by mind you. But it stacks good with n2slin, and really most likely would stack well with any nutrient partitioner.
 
mich29

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great discussion here so far.you've given me new ideas to work with.please keep it coming fellas.also I tried to rep everyone i could.I gotta spread some first for a few of you guys.
 
Steelwolf

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IMO I would stick to the 3 per day spread out dosing for Need2slin whether its with a bulk, cut, or recomp. It is effective at that dose with all those goals in mind. Your bottle will go a long way,it will be very efficient, and you get the great benefits of a nutrient partitioner without hindering carbohydrate absorption. A win win!! :)
That is how I would do it
 
mich29

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bumping this for more thoughts and ideas on this one.
 
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MakaveliThaDon

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I agree with the 3 per day.

My dosing would be 1 in the morning before my fasted morning cardio, 1 in the afternoon before my PWO meal, and one at night before bed.
 
mich29

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Well you have my ideas lol
that I do ;) I still gotta rep you on spread .

I agree with the 3 per day.

My dosing would be 1 in the morning before my fasted morning cardio, 1 in the afternoon before my PWO meal, and one at night before bed.
not a bad dosing scheme there.with the morning cardio do you experience any negative effects since its fasted?
 
Milas

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Not at all. Gymnemia has demonstrated that one of its primary functions is the blocking/delaying of carbohydrate absorption. I wouldn't want my carbohydrates blocked on a bulk. 1-2 a day may be ok, depending on when it's taken.
Do you have the info on that? The studies I've looked at seem to point to it increasing insulin secretion or possibly mimicking insulin IIRC. I hadn't heard about blocking carb absorption...
 
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mr.cooper69

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Do you have the info on that? The studies I've looked at seem to point to it increasing insulin secretion or possibly mimicking insulin IIRC. I hadn't heard about blocking carb absorption...
Certainly. Gymnema is FIRST AND FOREMOST a carbohydrate blocker. All other effects are pretty much secondary.

The ability to lower glucose levels in blood is caused by the delay in absorption of glucose in the intestines into the blood. Gymnemic molecules are molecular similar to glucose molecules. Gymnema molecules (specifically from the peptide Gurmarin) fill tongue receptor locations; curbing sugar cravings (inhibiting sweet taste sensation). This results in people actually taking in less sugar/carbohydrates which obviously leads to lower blood glucose levels. Gymnemic molecules fill the receptor location in absorptive external layers of the intestine; preventing sugar molecule absorption. This is the cause of the “low blood sugar levels”

Source
Division of Veterinary Pharmacology, Nippon Veterinary and Animal Science University, Musashino-shi, Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
The leaves of Gymnema inodorum (GI) have been known to be effective for some diseases including diabetes mellitus, rheumatic arthritis and gout. The crude saponin mixtures extracted from GI leaves inhibited glucose absorption in the isolated intestinal tract and suppressed the increased blood glucose in rats. In this study, we examined the relationship between chemical structure and pharmacological activity of the four components from GI leave extracts (GiA-1, GiA-2, GiA-5 and GiA-7). These components were the derivatives of (3beta,4alpha,16beta)-16,23,28-trihydroxyolean-12-en-3-yl-beta-D-glucopyranosiduroic acid. GiA-2, GiA-5 and GiA-7 that have suppressive effects on the high K+-induced contraction, an increase in deltaPD and the increased blood glucose level in the glucose tolerance test have -H at the 21st position and -CH2OH at 4beta of aglycon. On the other hand, GiA-1 that does not have any effects on the three parameters mentioned above has -H at the 21st position and -CH3 at 4beta of aglycon. In conclusion, it is suggested that the inhibitory effect of triterpenoids in Gymnema leaves on glucose absorption from the intestinal tract relies on -CH2OH at 4beta.

Inhibitory effect of gymnemic acid on intestinal absorption of oleic acid in rats.
Wang LF, Luo H, Miyoshi M, Imoto T, Hiji Y, Sasaki T.
Source
Third Department of Internal Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, Tottori University, Yonago, Japan.
Abstract
Gymnemic acid, a mixture of triterpene glycosides extracted from the leaves of Gymnema sylvestre, is known to inhibit the intestinal absorption of glucose in human and rats. This work examined the effect of gymnemic acid on oleic acid absorption by the method of intestinal perfusion in rats. The results showed the following. (i) Gymnemic acid potently inhibited the absorption of oleic acid in intestine. (ii) This inhibition was dose dependent and reversible. (iii) The extent of inhibition and the recovery progress were extremely similar to that of glucose absorption. (iv) Taurocholate did not affect the inhibitory effect of gymnemic acid on oleic acid absorption, but lowering its concentration facilitated the recovery from the inhibition. (v) The absorption of oleic acid was not affected by other glycosides such as phloridzin, stevioside, and glycyrrhizin. These new findings are important for understanding the roles of gymnemic acid in therapy of diabetes mellitus and obesity.
Suppression of glucose absorption by extracts from the leaves of Gymnema inodorum.
Shimizu K, Ozeki M, Tanaka K, Itoh K, Nakajyo S, Urakawa N, Atsuchi M.
Source
Division of Veterinary Pharmacology, Nippon Veterinary and Animal Science University, Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
Gymnema sylvestre (GS) is one of the Asclepiad strains that grows in South-east Asia. Their therapeutic effects for treating diabetes mellitus, rheumatic arthritis and gout have been well known for a long time. However, the problem is that GS suppresses sweetness and tastes bitter. For this study, we chose Gymnema inodorum (GI) instead of GS, since it has an advantage that it does not suppress sweetness nor is it bitter in taste. In this paper, effects of glucose availability of some saponin fractions (F-I to F-IV) extracted from GI leaves, which were obtained by high-performance liquid chromatography were studied on a high K(+)-induced contraction of guinea-pig intestinal smooth muscle, O2 consumption on guinea-pig ileum, glucose-evoked transmural potential difference (delta PD) of guinea-pig everted intestine and blood glucose level in glucose tolerance tests on rats. The extracts of GI leaves suppressed the intestinal smooth muscle contraction, decreased the O2 consumption, inhibited the glucose evoked-transmural potential, and prevented the blood glucose level. Our studies suggest that the component of GI inhibits the increase in the blood glucose level by interfering with the intestinal glucose absorption process.
 
Milas

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Thanks, good to know! So, would using gymnema during a bulk help even out glucose absorption through the intestine rather than spiking it (i.e., more controlled release)?
 
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MakaveliThaDon

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that I do ;) I still gotta rep you on spread .



not a bad dosing scheme there.with the morning cardio do you experience any negative effects since its fasted?
just fat loss ;) No but seriously, if doing it fasted like that, I would not take more than one cap of it. Any more than that would be too much NA-rALA with no carbs, and I think you would become hypoglycemic. But one works really well for me.
 
mich29

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Certainly. Gymnema is FIRST AND FOREMOST a carbohydrate blocker. All other effects are pretty much secondary.

The ability to lower glucose levels in blood is caused by the delay in absorption of glucose in the intestines into the blood. Gymnemic molecules are molecular similar to glucose molecules. Gymnema molecules (specifically from the peptide Gurmarin) fill tongue receptor locations; curbing sugar cravings (inhibiting sweet taste sensation). This results in people actually taking in less sugar/carbohydrates which obviously leads to lower blood glucose levels. Gymnemic molecules fill the receptor location in absorptive external layers of the intestine; preventing sugar molecule absorption. This is the cause of the “low blood sugar levels”

Source
Division of Veterinary Pharmacology, Nippon Veterinary and Animal Science University, Musashino-shi, Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
The leaves of Gymnema inodorum (GI) have been known to be effective for some diseases including diabetes mellitus, rheumatic arthritis and gout. The crude saponin mixtures extracted from GI leaves inhibited glucose absorption in the isolated intestinal tract and suppressed the increased blood glucose in rats. In this study, we examined the relationship between chemical structure and pharmacological activity of the four components from GI leave extracts (GiA-1, GiA-2, GiA-5 and GiA-7). These components were the derivatives of (3beta,4alpha,16beta)-16,23,28-trihydroxyolean-12-en-3-yl-beta-D-glucopyranosiduroic acid. GiA-2, GiA-5 and GiA-7 that have suppressive effects on the high K+-induced contraction, an increase in deltaPD and the increased blood glucose level in the glucose tolerance test have -H at the 21st position and -CH2OH at 4beta of aglycon. On the other hand, GiA-1 that does not have any effects on the three parameters mentioned above has -H at the 21st position and -CH3 at 4beta of aglycon. In conclusion, it is suggested that the inhibitory effect of triterpenoids in Gymnema leaves on glucose absorption from the intestinal tract relies on -CH2OH at 4beta.

Inhibitory effect of gymnemic acid on intestinal absorption of oleic acid in rats.
Wang LF, Luo H, Miyoshi M, Imoto T, Hiji Y, Sasaki T.
Source
Third Department of Internal Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, Tottori University, Yonago, Japan.
Abstract
Gymnemic acid, a mixture of triterpene glycosides extracted from the leaves of Gymnema sylvestre, is known to inhibit the intestinal absorption of glucose in human and rats. This work examined the effect of gymnemic acid on oleic acid absorption by the method of intestinal perfusion in rats. The results showed the following. (i) Gymnemic acid potently inhibited the absorption of oleic acid in intestine. (ii) This inhibition was dose dependent and reversible. (iii) The extent of inhibition and the recovery progress were extremely similar to that of glucose absorption. (iv) Taurocholate did not affect the inhibitory effect of gymnemic acid on oleic acid absorption, but lowering its concentration facilitated the recovery from the inhibition. (v) The absorption of oleic acid was not affected by other glycosides such as phloridzin, stevioside, and glycyrrhizin. These new findings are important for understanding the roles of gymnemic acid in therapy of diabetes mellitus and obesity.
Suppression of glucose absorption by extracts from the leaves of Gymnema inodorum.
Shimizu K, Ozeki M, Tanaka K, Itoh K, Nakajyo S, Urakawa N, Atsuchi M.
Source
Division of Veterinary Pharmacology, Nippon Veterinary and Animal Science University, Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
Gymnema sylvestre (GS) is one of the Asclepiad strains that grows in South-east Asia. Their therapeutic effects for treating diabetes mellitus, rheumatic arthritis and gout have been well known for a long time. However, the problem is that GS suppresses sweetness and tastes bitter. For this study, we chose Gymnema inodorum (GI) instead of GS, since it has an advantage that it does not suppress sweetness nor is it bitter in taste. In this paper, effects of glucose availability of some saponin fractions (F-I to F-IV) extracted from GI leaves, which were obtained by high-performance liquid chromatography were studied on a high K(+)-induced contraction of guinea-pig intestinal smooth muscle, O2 consumption on guinea-pig ileum, glucose-evoked transmural potential difference (delta PD) of guinea-pig everted intestine and blood glucose level in glucose tolerance tests on rats. The extracts of GI leaves suppressed the intestinal smooth muscle contraction, decreased the O2 consumption, inhibited the glucose evoked-transmural potential, and prevented the blood glucose level. Our studies suggest that the component of GI inhibits the increase in the blood glucose level by interfering with the intestinal glucose absorption process.
now this is the type of discussion I'm talking about.
 
mich29

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Thanks, good to know! So, would using gymnema during a bulk help even out glucose absorption through the intestine rather than spiking it (i.e., more controlled release)?
now the fun starts ;) sounds like I might have to add some gymena to the mix hmmm.I'll have to read into this more when I have a few hours to dig through some things.

just fat loss ;) No but seriously, if doing it fasted like that, I would not take more than one cap of it. Any more than that would be too much NA-rALA with no carbs, and I think you would become hypoglycemic. But one works really well for me.
this is exactly what I was thinking espeically first thing in the morning this sounds like the perfect way to use Need 2 slin if your going for fat loss.I agree 1 pill using it in this method would be ideal since Need 2 slin is no joke and is very strong and 2 or 3 or etc might be a little too much for some.
 
nattydisaster

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Not at all. Gymnemia has demonstrated that one of its primary functions is the blocking/delaying of carbohydrate absorption. I wouldn't want my carbohydrates blocked on a bulk. 1-2 a day may be ok, depending on when it's taken.
I agree
 
nattydisaster

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Gymnema also has shown to not effect insulin levels in normal mice or people, only diabetic mice and people, last i checked
 
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mr.cooper69

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Thanks, good to know! So, would using gymnema during a bulk help even out glucose absorption through the intestine rather than spiking it (i.e., more controlled release)?
This is supposedly how it would function, indeed. Insulin levels would stay more stable, theoretically at least.

So if you're using gymnema no a bulk, here's the take home message:

-Do not use it more than 1-2 times a day. You want to ABSORB your carbs on a bulk if you intend to progressively overload your muscles.
-NEVER take it postworkout on a bulk.
 
Milas

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Interesting how so many people use Gymnemic Acid containing supplements post workout: SlinSane, AnabolicPump, P-Slin, Recompadrol, Need2Slin, etc.

In the Recompadrol write-up they say:

Gymnema Sylvestre is an Indian herb which has been clinically proven to lower HbA1c, fasting blood glucose, and postprandial glucose levels dramatically (*11). Gymnema also increases the speed in which glucose is transported from the bloodstream into muscle tissue. In India a year long study was conducted using Gymnema daily, the study showed a decrease in fasting blood glucose levels from 232 mg/dL to 152 mg/dl, the control group had no change. (*12)The Gymnema group also experienced a significant drop in HbA1c(*12). In addition Gymnema has been shown to actually regenerate and multiply the number of insulin secreting beta cells in the pancreas. Regeneration and multiplication of beta cells means that those who have poor insulin sensitivity can now improve their bodies natural output of insulin. (*13)
(references got truncated at 11 on the nutra page!)

and again in SlinSane:

Gymnema Sylvestre

Used as a natural treatment for diabetic symptoms in parts of India for thousands of years, this tropical herb has many promising attributes for the modern day physique enthusiast. Much of the research on this compound has focused on diabetic conditions, with some pretty incredible results.

Studies have shown Gymnema to reverse elevated cholesterol and triglycerides (15,17,26), decrease serum blood glucose in a fasted and fed state (16,20,22,24,26), and improve the time it takes to clear glucose from the bloodstream post-prandially (24). A long term study out of India looked at diabetics who had been given Gymnema daily for up to a year, and found that fasting glucose levels had dropped from an average of 232 mg/dL to a remarkable 152 mg/dL, with no change in the control group. The Gymnema group was able to halve their required insulin dosages over the course of the study, and they also showed a significant drop in A1C levels (22), which was later confirmed by a 2009 study in the journal Phytomedicine (26).

Gymnema has a profound effect on the insulin secreting cells of the pancreas, known as the beta cells located inside the islets of Langerhans. The herb has the unique ability to stimulate insulin release, even without the presence of carbs (18), and can actually regenerate the beta cells that often become damaged and dysfunctioning over time (22). One study published in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology even found Gymnema to double the number of beta and islet cells in diabetic rats (23).

Aside from the profound effects on pancreatic function, Gymnema also acts at nutrient destination cells by increasing permeability of cell walls, which assists in the process of nutrient uptake (18). Damaged cell walls become less permeable over time, due to excess insulin in the bloodstream and dietary deficiencies, among other things. Gymnema acts as sort of a cellular repair kit, restoring optimal function.

The addition of Gymnema alongside Lagerstroemia to Slin-Sane allows for a two-pronged attack for optimization of glucose and insulin. By increasing the enzymes responsible for glucose utilization (25), enhancing the action of endogenous insulin (22), stimulating insulin release and repairing beta cells, increasing cell permeability and repairing insulin induced damage to the liver, kidney and muscle cells (25), Gymnema will aid in driving nutrients into the muscles for a full, pumped feeling and increased performance.

Gymnema Review:

•Stimulates insulin release and mimicks insulin
•Increases nutrient uptake
•Increases cell permeability
•Reduces serum glucose, cholesterol, triglycerides, and A1C
•Elevates HDL levels
•Regenerates pancreatic cells

15. Ramkumar KM, Vijayakumar RS, Ponmanickam P, Velayuthaprabhu S, Archunan G, Rajaguru P. 2008. Antihyperlipidaemic effect of Gymnema montanum: a study on lipid profile and fatty acid composition in experimental diabetes. Basic Clin Pharmacol Toxicol. 103(6):538-45.

16. Gholap S, Kar A. 2003. Effects of Inula racemosa root and Gymnema sylvestre leaf extracts in the regulation of corticosteroid induced diabetes mellitus: involvement of thyroid hormones. Pharmazie. 58(6):413-5.

17. Shigematsu N, Asano R, Shimosaka M, Okazaki M. 2001. Effect of administration with the extract of Gymnema sylvestre R. Br leaves on lipid metabolism in rats. Biol Pharm Bull. 24(6):713-7.

18. Persaud SJ, Al-Majed H, Raman A, Jones PM. 1999. Gymnema sylvestre stimulates insulin release in vitro by increased membrane permeability. J Endocrinol. 163(2):207-12.
(truncated again)

So, you should focus on more insulin mimickers post workout, like Na-R-ALA? What about Corosolic Acid (banaba leaf), cinnamon or berberine?
 
Blergs

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I'm hoping to get thoughts from everyone on this one so I'm offering reps for anyone who can help with this.

I've looked over Need 2 Slin quite a bit and have found great reviews from those using it on a cut or a recomp..but I haven't really found anyone using this as a bulking agent so I thought I would pose the question how would you use Need 2 Slin on a bulk.I've researched those that use real slin and have thought about following those protocols somewhat but want to see how you guys feels about this.
I LOVE this product myself!
One of my fave's!
I think it’s great for both when bulking even just 3 caps Ed (1 cap 30min before big meals) help utilize nutrients better and help keep fat off while bulking. I would highly rec it.
I used it during winter bulk with needtowhey, lipotropic (I like to change it up), ASGT, N2KTS, bulk creatine mono etc. and it was nice. I think it helped keep fat off even though I was drinking peanut butter in my shakes and loving the chocolate chip cookies smeared in peanut butter. :p
 
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mr.cooper69

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Interesting how so many people use Gymnemic Acid containing supplements post workout: SlinSane, AnabolicPump, P-Slin, Recompadrol, Need2Slin, etc.

In the Recompadrol write-up they say:


(references got truncated at 11 on the nutra page!)

and again in SlinSane:


(truncated again)

So, you should focus on more insulin mimickers post workout, like Na-R-ALA? What about Corosolic Acid (banaba leaf), cinnamon or berberine?
Postworkout, the need for insulin mimetics isn't there at all unless you have an insulin issue. But yes, your logic is sound. Na-R-Ala, if sourced right, is the best of the best IMO.
 
Milas

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Postworkout, the need for insulin mimetics isn't there at all unless you have an insulin issue. But yes, your logic is sound. Na-R-Ala, if sourced right, is the best of the best IMO.
I agree, Na-R-ALA is good for so many different things. Love it!
 
nattydisaster

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Interesting how so many people use Gymnemic Acid containing supplements post workout: SlinSane, AnabolicPump, P-Slin, Recompadrol, Need2Slin, etc.

In the Recompadrol write-up they say:


(references got truncated at 11 on the nutra page!)

and again in SlinSane:


(truncated again)

So, you should focus on more insulin mimickers post workout, like Na-R-ALA? What about Corosolic Acid (banaba leaf), cinnamon or berberine?
Correct.

Also, a number of those studies are in vitro which are meh for the topic of discussion

Just dump some cinnamon in your PWO!
 
nattydisaster

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Also, working out in general will doa good job with everything. Try doing a very hard workout and then not eating carbs for 2 hours. You will get hypo feeling. I do at least
 
Milas

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Also, working out in general will doa good job with everything. Try doing a very hard workout and then not eating carbs for 2 hours. You will get hypo feeling. I do at least
I don't eat for 4-5 hours after heavy lifting (just BCAA). I don't really go hypo, but when I have my fast break meal, WHOABOY, insulin coma time!
 
mich29

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this thread is shaping up nicely.alot of great discussion,advice,ideas.great stuff here.
 
Milas

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Here's another nugget I got from a smart fellow on here, berberine blocks muscle protein synthesis and increases catabolism! Take that 30 minutes before meals? No thanks!!!

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/59/8/1879.long

RESULTS Berberine administration decreased protein synthesis and increased degradation in muscles of normal and db/db mice. The protein catabolic mechanism depended on berberine-stimulated expression of the E3 ubiquitin ligase, atrogin-1. Atrogin-1 not only increased proteolysis but also reduced protein synthesis by mechanisms that were independent of decreased phosphorylation of Akt or forkhead transcription factors. Impaired protein synthesis was dependent on a reduction in eIF3-f, an essential regulator of protein synthesis. Berberine impaired energy metabolism, activating AMP-activated protein kinase and providing an alternative mechanism for the stimulation of atrogin-1 expression. When we increased mitochondrial biogenesis by expressing peroxisome proliferator–activated receptor γ coactivator-1α, berberine-induced changes in muscle protein metabolism were prevented.
 
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MakaveliThaDon

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Here's another nugget I got from a smart fellow on here, berberine blocks muscle protein synthesis and increases catabolism! Take that 30 minutes before meals? No thanks!!!

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/59/8/1879.long

RESULTS Berberine administration decreased protein synthesis and increased degradation in muscles of normal and db/db mice. The protein catabolic mechanism depended on berberine-stimulated expression of the E3 ubiquitin ligase, atrogin-1. Atrogin-1 not only increased proteolysis but also reduced protein synthesis by mechanisms that were independent of decreased phosphorylation of Akt or forkhead transcription factors. Impaired protein synthesis was dependent on a reduction in eIF3-f, an essential regulator of protein synthesis. Berberine impaired energy metabolism, activating AMP-activated protein kinase and providing an alternative mechanism for the stimulation of atrogin-1 expression. When we increased mitochondrial biogenesis by expressing peroxisome proliferator–activated receptor γ coactivator-1α, berberine-induced changes in muscle protein metabolism were prevented.
great stuff as always Milas. Isn't berberine what has been said to be mostly to blame for the GI problems a lot of people experience with nutrient partitioners?
 
Milas

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great stuff as always Milas. Isn't berberine what has been said to be mostly to blame for the GI problems a lot of people experience with nutrient partitioners?
Yes, I have TERRIBLE IBS with berberine. I can consistently plan on hitting the bathroom explosively about 30 minutes after taking it, with horrible gut pain and pressure if I don't go immediately! I guess that could be useful for cutting... ;)
 
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Man, I use Need2slin all the time. Anytime I eat carbs I just take a pill before. Works like a muh****in charm.
 
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Yes, I have TERRIBLE IBS with berberine. I can consistently plan on hitting the bathroom explosively about 30 minutes after taking it, with horrible gut pain and pressure if I don't go immediately! I guess that could be useful for cutting... ;)
LOL, same here. The products I've tried with berberine in them have given me some extremely unpleasant issues. That's another reason why n2slin is my preference. No berberine = no GI discomfort :)
 
Steelwolf

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Here's another nugget I got from a smart fellow on here, berberine blocks muscle protein synthesis and increases catabolism! Take that 30 minutes before meals? No thanks!!!

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/59/8/1879.long

RESULTS Berberine administration decreased protein synthesis and increased degradation in muscles of normal and db/db mice. The protein catabolic mechanism depended on berberine-stimulated expression of the E3 ubiquitin ligase, atrogin-1. Atrogin-1 not only increased proteolysis but also reduced protein synthesis by mechanisms that were independent of decreased phosphorylation of Akt or forkhead transcription factors. Impaired protein synthesis was dependent on a reduction in eIF3-f, an essential regulator of protein synthesis. Berberine impaired energy metabolism, activating AMP-activated protein kinase and providing an alternative mechanism for the stimulation of atrogin-1 expression. When we increased mitochondrial biogenesis by expressing peroxisome proliferator–activated receptor γ coactivator-1α, berberine-induced changes in muscle protein metabolism were prevented.
wow that's crazy
 
RickRock13

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Man, I use Need2slin all the time. Anytime I eat carbs I just take a pill before. Works like a muh****in charm.
Exactly as it should. I always feel better taking in larger amounts of carbs knowing that I just dosed some Need2slin ;)
 
Steelwolf

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Exactly as it should. I always feel better taking in larger amounts of carbs knowing that I just dosed some Need2slin ;)
I'd agree. Also helps as the carbs get dropped to make the most of them.
 
mich29

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this thread is amazing great stuff here.alot of great info on things to add change and etc in terms of how to use Need 2 Slin to its fullest potential.
 
RickRock13

RickRock13

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I'll be using this ish forever. ps you're jacked bro, got damn. 37 years old? props
Thanks bro! Yeh I'm 37, and I have a son that is almost as old as some of the members here (he is 17)

Glad you enjoy Need2slin. I am pretty happy using it year round myself! ;)
 
mich29

mich29

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can't wait to try some of this new info out.really great stuff here.I have some things to add to this discussion when I can get a chance to read through some things.
 
Steelwolf

Steelwolf

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Thanks bro! Yeh I'm 37, and I have a son that is almost as old as some of the members here (he is 17)

Glad you enjoy Need2slin. I am pretty happy using it year round myself! ;)
You got some good experience then, and the abilities to back it up going by the avi
 

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