SAN Na-R-ALA or Glycobol when in low carb?

[AutoKal47]

Hi all,

I was considering getting Glycobol but I read lotsa people had stomach problems with it,
also, I'm in low carb all year round, (often in calories deficit also) and my plan was just to use ONE Glycobol cap with my
post WO meal (the only one containing carbs, enough to justify the use of it), but I do have a sensitive stomach
to begin with, and I read about the vanadium possible toxicity etc..

Anyway, bottom line, since my use of Glycobol would be "light" would I be better of with the San Na-R-Ala caps instead?

AFAIK that's the main active ingredient right? And I didn't find anything about stomach problems with that

Any help will be much appreciated!

 

[WhatsaRoid?]

I would buy na-rala in bulk to take how you like, I loved glycobol before bed and workouts. The pumps on glycobol are better then na-rala alone trust me I've used both for a long time.

 

[AutoKal47]

Thanks for the reply,

is NaRala alone effective enough as partitioner?

 

[AutoKal47]

Thanks for the reply,

is NaRala alone effective enough as partitioner?

 

[MAxximal]

Thanks for the reply,

is NaRala alone effective enough as partitioner?

depends of what you eat ALA is a great antioxidant you can stack Na-R-Ala plus Cinnamon (cinnulin)

check this too: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/135213-best-insulin-mimicker.html

 

[abformulations]

I always used Glycobol with low carbs (1cap) usually when it ranges from 25-50g of carbs. Itll last pretty long as well if u have a low carb diet. Never had any stomache discomfort.

 

[AutoKal47]

depends of what you eat ALA is a great antioxidant you can stack Na-R-Ala plus Cinnamon (cinnulin)

check this too:

I'll take a look at it, thanks

I always used Glycobol with low carbs (1cap) usually when it ranges from 25-50g of carbs. Itll last pretty long as well if u have a low carb diet. Never had any stomache discomfort.

Exactly my thought, that was pretty much my plan. Maybe not the way these products were meant to be used but I thought one could still be benefit from them.

I was just wondering if na-r-ala - as opposed to glycobol - used this way would be a waste or it would still give me some good partitioning effect.

How much more effective glycobol is compared to na-r-ala itself?

 

[abformulations]

Glycobol dosed at 1cap will give partitioning effects. They say 2caps bcause thats usually for 50g or more. One cap def works as i did it for every pre workout meal. (two hours before workout). Wont be a waste at one cap is my point.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

bulk na rala is extremely effective as mentioned. The hard part is finding a place that carries it in bulk at a good price. I've not tried glycobol, but I've heard of stomach discomfort from it as welll, recompadrol gave me some of the worst GI symptoms ever, however glycobol does not share any of the same ingredients.

N2slin has 200mg of na rala in it, you could give that a shot Plus a bunch of other goodies in it for increasing thyroid output, cAMP, etc...

 

[MAxximal]

regular ALA may result in a greater amount of liver glycogen storage and may even result in more fat storage than intended.
so i don`t know if the same rules applies to all?

 

[AutoKal47]

Glycobol dosed at 1cap will give partitioning effects. They say 2caps bcause thats usually for 50g or more. One cap def works as i did it for every pre workout meal. (two hours before workout). Wont be a waste at one cap is my point.

That was what I was wondering, thanks

bulk na rala is extremely effective as mentioned. The hard part is finding a place that carries it in bulk at a good price. I've not tried glycobol, but I've heard of stomach discomfort from it as welll, recompadrol gave me some of the worst GI symptoms ever, however glycobol does not share any of the same ingredients.

N2slin has 200mg of na rala in it, you could give that a shot Plus a bunch of other goodies in it for increasing thyroid output, cAMP, etc...

SAN Na-Rala at 1 cps a day for me wold be cheap enough, if that'd do the trick I'd be ok with it

regular ALA may result in a greater amount of liver glycogen storage and may even result in more fat storage than intended.
so i don`t know if the same rules applies to all?

This doesn't sound good. I wonder if applies to Na-Rala as well

 

[MAxximal]

I noticed this effects in doses of 900-1200mg of ALA daily but with doses of 300mg first thing and another 300mg 20-30min before workouts is ok but Na-Rala needs be dosed @ 200mg one or two times a day

 

[AutoKal47]

So going with the SAN Na-Rala (100mg a cap) would be 1 or 2 with my postWO shake

200mg is the minimum dose for it to be effective? (in which case would be 2cps postWO)

At this point it's cheaper to go with Glycobol (250mg a cap), I'm only worried about the stomach problems with that one
as they seem pretty common

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

So going with the SAN Na-Rala (100mg a cap) would be 1 or 2 with my postWO shake

200mg is the minimum dose for it to be effective? (in which case would be 2cps postWO)

At this point it's cheaper to go with Glycobol (250mg a cap), I'm only worried about the stomach problems with that one
as they seem pretty common

I wouldn't go over 400 of it in one single dose personally. But I mean play around with it, ya dig?

 

[WhatsaRoid?]

I purchases mine in bulk from nutra, I suggest doing that since no problem with stomach and will last you longer. The only down side is you do not ever mix it with any liquid as it will make anything taste like acid. I purchased everything in need2slin in bulk and take that as well as I buy na-rala caps for 12 dollars for the days I'm on the run.

 

[MAxximal]

So going with the SAN Na-Rala (100mg a cap) would be 1 or 2 with my postWO shake

200mg is the minimum dose for it to be effective? (in which case would be 2cps postWO)

At this point it's cheaper to go with Glycobol (250mg a cap), I'm only worried about the stomach problems with that one
as they seem pretty common

Did you has been used Na-Rala before?

When I used the first time in Atkins Diet I go hypoglycemic all day but decided only used 2 times per day with 200mg caps only. For some people is strong for others not.

If you use it correctly you win

 

[MAxximal]

I wouldn't go over 400 of it in one single dose personally. But I mean play around with it, ya dig?

This!!!!!!

 

[AutoKal47]

Thanks guys,
unfortunately i'm in EU and I can't find bulk, Predator's got only Glycobol and SAN NA-Rala, P-slin, need2slin are on backorder and during summer this could take
a while. I might go with Glycobol, they have a 28 sample size bottle, which is my plan works and it won't give me stomach problems it'll last 28 days, enough to understand if
it's ok for me or not. Worse case scenario it's gon' be 10 bucks wasted

 

[gymrat827]

need2slin should be back around soon across the pond. it was out of stock here for a bit but has been back for a little while.

 

[Outstanding]

Pardon my repeating of what may have already been suggested here... but when it comes to GDAs and Repartitioning Agents, I pride myself as somewhat of a resource having tried them all and researched them all with what could be called obsessive fervor.

I would highly suggest either going with what I have found to be the best stack available, Need 2 Slin + Recompadrol, or, buy Bulk na-r-ala from Geranova (there are a couple sites that sell it for around $1.00 per gram), combine that with bulk HCA powder, and bulk Gymnema 75%.

I have also found a pretty decent fat loss and thermogenic effect from starting Kelp caps, T3 PCT from NTBM, and Super Cayenne caps over the last couple weeks.

 

[AndrewNico]

it would be a waste to take a gda post workout as muscle insulin sensitivity is super high . . . exercise is exerting its own "nutrient-partitioning" effects independent of what the gda will do.

^^ this is from mrcooper, btw

 

[MAxximal]

Pardon my repeating of what may have already been suggested here... but when it comes to GDAs and Repartitioning Agents, I pride myself as somewhat of a resource having tried them all and researched them all with what could be called obsessive fervor.

I would highly suggest either going with what I have found to be the best stack available, Need 2 Slin + Recompadrol, or, buy Bulk na-r-ala from Geranova (there are a couple sites that sell it for around $1.00 per gram), combine that with bulk HCA powder, and bulk Gymnema 75%.

I have also found a pretty decent fat loss and thermogenic effect from starting Kelp caps, T3 PCT from NTBM, and Super Cayenne caps over the last couple weeks.

The Most Powerful stack i used was Recompadrol plus Momordica Charantia [25% Charantin] this is TOTALLY SICK eat,eat,eat complex carbs and never get satiated simply sick and hungry all the time (low levels of sugar)

 

[DaveGabe24]

The Most Powerful stack i used was Recompadrol plus Momordica Charantia [25% Charantin] this is TOTALLY SICK eat,eat,eat complex carbs and never get satiated simply sick and hungry all the time (low levels of sugar)

Where'd you get your momoridca from?

 

[AutoKal47]

it would be a waste to take a gda post workout as muscle insulin sensitivity is super high . . . exercise is exerting its own "nutrient-partitioning" effects independent of what the gda will do.

^^ this is from mrcooper, btw

I didn't think about this at all, I read that and felt very stupid.
It makes totally sense and it seems so obvious. I don't eat carbs if not with the postWO meal, and I don't do cheat meals,
so I guess I'd probably be better spending my $ somewhere else

I'm learning a lot in here, thank you all

 

[AutoKal47]

it would be a waste to take a gda post workout as muscle insulin sensitivity is super high . . . exercise is exerting its own "nutrient-partitioning" effects independent of what the gda will do.

^^ this is from mrcooper, btw

I didn't think about this at all, I read that and felt very stupid.
It makes totally sense and it seems so obvious. I don't eat carbs if not with the postWO meal, and I don't do cheat meals,
so I guess I'd probably be better spending my $ somewhere else

I'm learning a lot in here, thank you all

 

[AndrewNico]

dont totally throw the idea out the window . . . your daily carbs should be split pre and post workout . . . the pre carbs you can definitely use gda's for.

 

[AutoKal47]

dont totally throw the idea out the window . . . your daily carbs should be split pre and post workout . . . the pre carbs you can definitely use gda's for.

I workout first thing in the morning, fasted, my first meal is my postwo one, I run way too lil carbs to even think about splitting them.

 

[AndrewNico]

I workout first thing in the morning, fasted, my first meal is my postwo one, I run way too lil carbs to even think about splitting them.

why are you working out fasted?
why are you taking in such little carbs? (just wondering with this one)

 

[AutoKal47]

why are you working out fasted?
why are you taking in such little carbs? (just wondering with this one)

Several reasons, I find working out fasted works a lot better on me for keeping my BF as low as it is,
I'm in a low carb all year round, been doing it for years and my body is used to it, I'm not after gaining weight/bulking in general anyway,
I'm sensitive to carbs, and it's also a psychological thing. Partially is also my schedule, I have to start my wo early in the morning
because I tend to overtrain and my sessions are very long.
I'm aware that theoretically there are things in my routine that don't add up and probably if I was a lil less paranoid i could
improve, but somehow I did will my body to work in such hard conditions, I do like to push myself this much.
I'm new to the forum, I wrote some background info in my anabeta log: anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/178912-my-anabeta-log.html
(I see you had one as well )

 

[AndrewNico]

You should have a refeed day ~once a week right?

just use your gda for that day.

 

[AutoKal47]

You should have a refeed day ~once a week right?

just use your gda for that day.

You're right, I *should*, but I don't. I'm aware of the concept and the possible benefits of having a refeed day,
but I can't help feeling really bad if I eat carbs, especially if it's a day off.. On my days off I even cut them completely sometimes.
My protein and BCAA intake is quite high as you imagine
The whole idea of the gda was just for a possible better use of my postwo carbs
but as you pointed out that's most likely not necessary

 

[AutoKal47]

Since we're at it and i'm sure is somehow related to this subject,

so very often I kind of pass out after my postwo meal (simple and complex carbs, my whey shake, plus creatine and bcaa)
I literally can't stand and I need to lay down and often pass out for like 15/20 minutes.
What does it mean? I always thought it was normal since I always work out to failure, and I mean *failure* and as I mentioned
my sessions are very long, but maybe has something to do with the carbs? Because that seems to be causing it..

 

[MAxximal]

Where'd you get your momoridca from?

from neogenix supremacy

 

[DaveGabe24]

Everyone here likes to push their body...just sayin



And not refeeding is less than optimal imo. For fat loss, strength, performance, anything at all.

from neogenix supremacy

Good call.

 

[AutoKal47]

Everyone here likes to push their body...just sayin



And not refeeding is less than optimal imo. For fat loss, strength, performance, anything at all.

Yeah I know, I suppose I could give it a try, but I freak the hell out if I see that I'm losing tone
I could try the na-rala or glycobol for that refeed day. Not sure, I'll consider it but I've been doing this for so
long I'm a bit worried about how my body could react to that

 

[AndrewNico]

You'll find that you're going to be more defined after the refeed, actually.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Refeed. Stop resisting and DO IT. You need the boost in t3 and leptin, not to mention the boost in performance at the gym.

 

[DaveGabe24]

You'll find that you're going to be more defined after the refeed, actually.

Refeed. Stop resisting and DO IT. You need the boost in t3 and leptin, not to mention the boost in performance at the gym.

^^^ This.


Start with a 6 hour refeed, eat when you're hungry, and not until you're sick. Then see how many days it takes for you to reach baseline (original weight). Anytime before late Friday, early Saturday is too soon (lengthen the refeed window), and if u don't reach baseline then shorten it.


Don't worry about protein/fat too much, and eat whatever you're craving for carbs. Now's the time to get your fix and hold you over till the next refeed. My first refeeds were typically 500-600g carbs comfortably, my last two were around 900 and they've been tremendous in helping me maintain performance and continue leaning out.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

it would be a waste to take a gda post workout as muscle insulin sensitivity is super high . . . exercise is exerting its own "nutrient-partitioning" effects independent of what the gda will do.

^^ this is from mrcooper, btw

That's quite the assumption. And likely very wrong.

 

[mr.cooper69]

That's quite the assumption. And likely very wrong.

I would be interested in your reasoning. Particularly with respect to slin-sane, which is what I initially made that statement based upon.

 

[AutoKal47]

Thanks guys,

I decided to give it a go.
I'm still worried a bit so I'll do it carefully at the beginning.
I'll go for a refeed day on my squats day (starting after the workout), the next day is gonna be back wo, so two heavy days lined up.

I'll keep the amount of calories the same lowering protein intake to something like 100gr and "fill" the missing calories with carbs (complex/clean, I don't do sugar.. aside from the postwo meal)
and very lil to no fats.
I'll check how I react to this and then consider going up with calories on the refeed day later on

I got myself a tub of Glycobol which I will use on that day, one pill for the biggest meal, then if I have no stomach problems I can try two

For me is not a problem anymore to not eat, I don't crave food, I'm very rarely hungry, I just eat when I have to and that's it.

I'm very interested on the use of the gda postwo tho':
To me it does make sense what AndrewNico/mrcooper stated, that muscle insulin sensitivity is super high so a gda wold be wasted with the postwo meal,
but I never tried gda of any kind so I don't really know..

Royd The Noyd do you instead think it would be beneficial? Could you (or someone else) go into details on this?

 

[AutoKal47]

sorry double post

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I would be interested in your reasoning. Particularly with respect to slin-sane, which is what I initially made that statement based upon.

If a compound has tissue selectivity specific to skeletal muscle you would be correct in your statement. Unfortunately most if not all of these compounds have no sufficient evidence they selectively upregulate GLUT4 in skeletal muscle. In fact many show the same occuring in adipose tissue (which is why they are silly before a cheat meal). In addition to that many of the nutrient partitioners have vastly different MOA's and some we dont know what's going on because the research is so scarce. Others seem to mimic or stimulate insulin release which would be optimal in a pwo timeframe as opposed to another time of the day. There is a lot of unknown when it comes to "nutrient partitioners".

 

[AutoKal47]

If a compound has tissue selectivity specific to skeletal muscle you would be correct in your statement. Unfortunately most if not all of these compounds have no sufficient evidence they selectively upregulate GLUT4 in skeletal muscle. In fact many show the same occuring in adipose tissue (which is why they are silly before a cheat meal). In addition to that many of the nutrient partitioners have vastly different MOA's and some we dont know what's going on because the research is so scarce. Others seem to mimic or stimulate insulin release which would be optimal in a pwo timeframe as opposed to another time of the day. There is a lot of unknown when it comes to "nutrient partitioners".

Thanks for the info, so long story short would be we don't actually know enough to evaluate nutrient partitioners? or what would be (if there is) the best timing for it?
Better, best timing is probably still before a meal but we don't know if its effect is what is suppose to be? Is there actually the possibility of nutrient partitioners to make your body store fats?
Sorry for all the questions but this is a very interesting subject for me, I wouldn't mind to know more in the matter

 

[AndrewNico]

If a compound has tissue selectivity specific to skeletal muscle you would be correct in your statement. Unfortunately most if not all of these compounds have no sufficient evidence they selectively upregulate GLUT4 in skeletal muscle. In fact many show the same occuring in adipose tissue (which is why they are silly before a cheat meal). In addition to that many of the nutrient partitioners have vastly different MOA's and some we dont know what's going on because the research is so scarce. Others seem to mimic or stimulate insulin release which would be optimal in a pwo timeframe as opposed to another time of the day. There is a lot of unknown when it comes to "nutrient partitioners".

we know that gda's act on both muscle & adipose tissue. also, since we never defined 'cheat meal' Im guessing what you meant is a meal high in both fat and carbs . . . if you only cheat with carbs (i.e. a refeed day on a normally low carb diet) there are no worries => Im actully still trying to figure out why you brought that point up . . . as it really doesnt have anything to do with a pwo insulin response, not trying to be a dick just curious.

To address the point you made about pwo insulin response; with the studies that show an increase in insulin secretion, is it significant compared to the natural secretion postworkout? If not, than it would be a waste to use it pwo as insulin is already being secreted and a gda may not do anything. It would kind of be like trying to push a locomotive by yourself while the engine is moving it just fine.

That being said, wouldnt you agree that it would be more optimal to utilize an increased insulin level when its not already naturally elevated? (kind of an off topic question, but I just wanted to ask)

 

[AutoKal47]

we know that gda's act on both muscle & adipose tissue. also, since we never defined 'cheat meal' Im guessing what you meant is a meal high in both fat and carbs . . . if you only cheat with carbs (i.e. a refeed day on a normally low carb diet) there are no worries => Im actully still trying to figure out why you brought that point up . . . as it really doesnt have anything to do with a pwo insulin response, not trying to be a dick just curious.

To address the point you made about pwo insulin response; with the studies that show an increase in insulin secretion, is it significant compared to the natural secretion postworkout? If not, than it would be a waste to use it pwo as insulin is already being secreted and a gda may not do anything. It would kind of be like trying to push a locomotive by yourself while the engine is moving it just fine.

That being said, wouldnt you agree that it would be more optimal to utilize an increased insulin level when its not already naturally elevated? (kind of an off topic question, but I just wanted to ask)

Yes I agree with you, and as I mentioned earlier, while I don't have experience with gda's, what you suggested - the fact that it would be most likely useless taken postWO - it made perfect sense to me

That's why I was asking if there was a study or some solid source that proof the opposite because it would have been a surprise to me.

I don't do cheat meals ever, nor refeed but as I said I know I should and I'm settled on giving it a try a see how it goes, in *this* case I see the purpose of Glycobol/gda, for me to use on
the refeed day, which is gon' be completely clean, complex carbs and no fats.

The pwo insulin response got in the picture because I wasn't planning on doing refeed so I was wondering (because doubting already) about a possible benefit of a gda used only pwo.

lol, bottom line, I agree with you and all this came out more complicated that it is

 

[mr.cooper69]

If a compound has tissue selectivity specific to skeletal muscle you would be correct in your statement. Unfortunately most if not all of these compounds have no sufficient evidence they selectively upregulate GLUT4 in skeletal muscle. In fact many show the same occuring in adipose tissue (which is why they are silly before a cheat meal). In addition to that many of the nutrient partitioners have vastly different MOA's and some we dont know what's going on because the research is so scarce. Others seem to mimic or stimulate insulin release which would be optimal in a pwo timeframe as opposed to another time of the day. There is a lot of unknown when it comes to "nutrient partitioners".

I was referring specifically to gymnema sylvestre in slin-sane.

An ingredient that increases insulin output would be great post workout.

 

[AutoKal47]

What about what andrew was saying, which seems correct to me, shouldn't insuline sensitivity be naturally already high after workout?
I'm planning on reading something about this but in the meantime if someone knows something and care to share that'd be great: about the fact that i seem to fall into a coma after my pwo carbs, does that mean that i'm insuline sensitive? Like too much? is that normal?

 

[mr.cooper69]

What about what andrew was saying, which seems correct to me, shouldn't insuline sensitivity be naturally already high after workout?
I'm planning on reading something about this but in the meantime if someone knows something and care to share that'd be great: about the fact that i seem to fall into a coma after my pwo carbs, does that mean that i'm insuline sensitive? Like too much? is that normal?

Yes it is. Stimulating insulin production during this period would be great (again, we are splitting hairs because nutrient timing is largely irrelevant, although with your diet it may be necessary).

 

[Royd The Noyd]

we know that gda's act on both muscle & adipose tissue. also, since we never defined 'cheat meal' Im guessing what you meant is a meal high in both fat and carbs . . . if you only cheat with carbs (i.e. a refeed day on a normally low carb diet) there are no worries => Im actully still trying to figure out why you brought that point up . . . as it really doesnt have anything to do with a pwo insulin response, not trying to be a dick just curious.

To address the point you made about pwo insulin response; with the studies that show an increase in insulin secretion, is it significant compared to the natural secretion postworkout? If not, than it would be a waste to use it pwo as insulin is already being secreted and a gda may not do anything. It would kind of be like trying to push a locomotive by yourself while the engine is moving it just fine.

That being said, wouldnt you agree that it would be more optimal to utilize an increased insulin level when its not already naturally elevated? (kind of an off topic question, but I just wanted to ask)

The studies on the majority of these compounds are not in vivo. So comparing them to healthy human baseline insulin levels is difficult. You statement regarding it being a waste pwo would also indicate you think humalog pwo would not provide any benefit. In that case I bet you believe Jay Cutler is natural as well? Your analogy should be "it would be like hitting the nitrous when your already going 100mph". This of course, assumes they actually stimulate insulin secretion (refer back to sentence 1 regarding the limited in vivo research).

Individuals with a high baseline insulin level are typically more prone to adipose/weight gain. So no I would not agree.