does erase effect cortisol

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    does erase effect cortisol


    A few days ago i read a thread where a few people claimed that studies show the compound in ERASE has no effect on cortisol. Then a PES rep came in and said they never claimed it to lower cortisol, only that it "may". This seems kinda odd to me because if you read any websites write up on ERASE almost the entire thing talks about how bad cortisol is and how erase lowers it. Just trying to figure out if I need to run something like Reduce XT along side it or if erase actually does lower cortisol. Thanks guys. . .

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    There is some thought on this that Erase seems to have an effect on lowering cortisol. Is it's primary purpose to lower cortisol? No, but there does seem to be some residual effect.

    I personally always take a little extra vitamin C while taking erase, as that as well seems to have an anti-cortisol impact
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    lame... I just bought Erase, I was contemplating going to the Triazole/LeanXtreme. But I liked that Erase was an all in one and it's AI mechanism was suicide inhibitor so no chance of rebound like you would have with an normal AI or SERM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machmood View Post
    A few days ago i read a thread where a few people claimed that studies show the compound in ERASE has no effect on cortisol. Then a PES rep came in and said they never claimed it to lower cortisol, only that it "may". This seems kinda odd to me because if you read any websites write up on ERASE almost the entire thing talks about how bad cortisol is and how erase lowers it. Just trying to figure out if I need to run something like Reduce XT along side it or if erase actually does lower cortisol. Thanks guys. . .
    Here is the whole deal. OTC AI's are going to be a thing of the past here quite soon. Erase has enough anecdotal evidence and supporting information from chemists like RussianStar that it is our information on the write. If something is being marketed as an AI, you will see it leave the market that much quicker, regardless of the DSHEA, anything that lowers E is not considered to be a dietary supp in big brothers eyes. We stated it at the beginning that it was only theory, but that theory has held anecdotal true, and saliva test true from my own doing.

    As I said earlier, take it for what you will. The masses says cort control, and gun to my head I vouch for just that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machmood View Post
    A few days ago i read a thread where a few people claimed that studies show the compound in ERASE has no effect on cortisol. Then a PES rep came in and said they never claimed it to lower cortisol, only that it "may". This seems kinda odd to me because if you read any websites write up on ERASE almost the entire thing talks about how bad cortisol is and how erase lowers it. Just trying to figure out if I need to run something like Reduce XT along side it or if erase actually does lower cortisol. Thanks guys. . .
    There is no study showing that Erase has no effect on cortisol.

    Those who have used both AIs and cortisol reducers extensively, and used Erase, will be the first to tell you it hits both pathways

    The last thing you'd want to do is take an additional cort blocker along side it. You would find out extremely fast that it was not needed and regret purchasing 2 things.
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    Waiting for my Erase Alpha T2 to come in. I got it primarily for the AI and thought the added bonus of lowering cortisol. Thanks for the vitamin c tidbit- definitely helpful.
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    Many (including myself) have been reporting leaning out quite a bit while on Erase. I don't think cortisol is going to be an issue.
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    it does not effect it at all...

    it may AFFECT it...
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    i have never tried it but from what I have read it does not effect it at all
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machmood View Post
    A few days ago i read a thread where a few people claimed that studies show the compound in ERASE has no effect on cortisol. Then a PES rep came in and said they never claimed it to lower cortisol, only that it "may". This seems kinda odd to me because if you read any websites write up on ERASE almost the entire thing talks about how bad cortisol is and how erase lowers it. Just trying to figure out if I need to run something like Reduce XT along side it or if erase actually does lower cortisol. Thanks guys. . .
    Erase has cortisol control effects, yes. There is no need to run another cortisol control product alongside it, unless you low-dosed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    it does not effect it at all...

    it may AFFECT it...
    Damn the english language!
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    why not take a product thats proven to have an impact on cort?
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    That makes too much sense. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    why not take a product thats proven to have an impact on cort?
    True.... You still could throw that in there if you wanted.

    SNS Reduce XT is a very solid and cost effective option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    why not take a product thats proven to have an impact on cort?
    Because if you add another one on top of erase and you down right crush it to nothing... bad news.

    Everyone thinks cort is so bad when in fact it is a necessary functional hormone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    why not take a product thats proven to have an impact on cort?
    Because other cortisol control products dont lower estrogen as well
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    but free test Contains a natural suicide inhibitor will improve the Testosterone : Estrogen profile while also increasing testosterone levels

    free test contains about 110mg of 3,7 Keto which has demonstrated strong ability to lower estrogen

    so yes, Free Test does do all three. boost test, lower estro, cort control
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Because if you add another one on top of erase and you down right crush it to nothing... bad news.

    Everyone thinks cort is so bad when in fact it is a necessary functional hormone.
    i never said add another one on top of erase. i said take one that boosts test, controls estro and cort all in ONE product, not TWO
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    but free test Contains a natural suicide inhibitor will improve the Testosterone : Estrogen profile while also increasing testosterone levels

    free test contains about 110mg of 3,7 Keto which has demonstrated strong ability to lower estrogen

    so yes, Free Test does do all three. boost test, lower estro, cort control
    What in free test is proven to reduce cortisol?
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    The theory of Erase lowering cortisol stems from the fact that 7-oxos conversion to metabolites hogs the 11-b hsd enzyme, similar to dheas conversion to testosterone using the 3b and 17b hsd enzymes. 11b hsd is responsible for converting inactive cortisone into the active form cortisol. Since 7 oxo is competively reducing the total amount of conversion taking place, you're left with less active cortisol.

    Erase is a metabolite of 7-oxo, so we hypothesized the possibility of it being a competitive inhibitor of this enzyme as well. It was pretty much confirmed after all the anecdotal reports we have received, as well as some people that have taken saliva adrenal stress index tests while on erase.
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    Interesting. Thanks for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    Interesting. Thanks for that.
    No problem!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    What in free test is proven to reduce cortisol?
    3,7 Keto DHEA and 7-Keto DHEA derivatives in general tend to curb cortisol - there is a pretty good explanation in the tech write-up
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    3,7 Keto DHEA and 7-Keto DHEA derivatives in general tend to curb cortisol - there is a pretty good explanation in the tech write-up
    Explanation of theory isn't proof...... and you understand that's the same ingredient as in erase?
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    but at a higher dose
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    but at a higher dose
    It's in a proprietary blend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    but at a higher dose
    If this is true (not doubting you) what is the dosage? As khy said, it is a proprietary blend, which will make many wonder
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    yes it is in a prop blend, but there are about 110mg in 4 caps according to Dirk, which, if im not mistaken, is a higher dose than Erase which i believe is 75mg


    http://www.appliednutriceuticals.com...-free_test.php

    Regulating Estrogen and Increasing Testosterone via Suicide Aromatase Inhibition: The Role of 3, 7-Keto DHEA:

    * 3, 7-Keto DHEA is a naturally-occurring metabolite of dehydroepiandosterone (DHEA), and is a potent aromatase inhibitor with some very unique qualities. Aromatase is an enzyme that transforms testosterone into estrogen, and the more active aromatase is, the more estrogen will ultimately be present. Therefore, aromatase inhibitors significantly decrease the level of estrogen in the body. This is important as increased estrogen in men can signal the hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) to shut down the release of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). GnRH signals the production of luteinizing hormone (LH), which signals the production of testosterone. Therefore, increased estrogen levels can lower endogenous testosterone production (21,29,31).

    * 3, 7-Keto DHEA has demonstrated strong ability to lower estrogen, thus mitigating this effect. It has a high binding affinity (Ki value = 0.22 mM) to the aromatase enzyme, and binds in an irreversible manner, making it a suicide inhibitor of aromatase. Ki Values measure how efficiently a compound binds to its associated receptor. The lower the Ki value; the higher the binding affinity. This inhibition allows for the production of less estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) and allows the user of the compound to maintain a higher level of testosterone; hence improving the Testosterone: Estrogen (T:E) ratio. The mechanism through which aromatase inhibitors raise testosterone is fairly simple; the HPTA senses low levels of estrogen, and because the body seeks to maintain homeostasis (it likes to maintain at least some estrogen, even in men), there is a concurrent increase in the amount of testosterone that is being produced, as a way to compensate for the low estrogen levels. The increased testosterone levels normally will result in increased estrogen since there is no estrogen being produced. Essentially, the brain is tricked into trying to produce more estrogen, so it releases more luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) and subsequently more LH, leading to even higher testosterone levels (20,21-23).

    * All aromatase inhibitors share this characteristic of positively altering the T:E ratio, and all will raise serum testosterone levels in men, which has been referenced in numerous studies. 3,7-Keto DHEA is comparable in potency to several other commonly available aromatase inhibitors. As explained above, a lower Ki value means higher potency, making it more potent than both Formestane and Exemestane, and very similar to androstentrione (ATD) (31,55).

    * 3,7-Keto DHEA is unique from other commonly used aromatase inhibitors in sports supplements in that it is a natural metabolite of 7-Keto DHEA and it cannot directly bind to the androgen receptor. 3,7-Keto DHEA (like 7-Keto DHEA) also cannot convert to testosterone, estrogen, or progesterone via any type of enzymatic reaction, so by strict definition it cannot in any way be considered a prohormone. This clearly differentiates it from other recently banned products that allow for the direct conversion to a controlled substance in the body (in either in trace amounts or full-scale conversion). This can not occur with 3,7-Keto DHEA, as it is formed naturally in humans from 7-Keto DHEA and can be readily found in humans in the amount of 5-7 ug/day (23-24).
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    I love the uncertain qualifier 'about' that you have to throw in there. Regardless of what "Dirk" might say, until that labels changed it's still a hidden blend in my eyes. I'm not trying to hate on Free Test, its just the way it is.
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    Plus 1.5 times the price as well. Granted free test has other valuable ingredients in it, if people are looking primarily for cortisol control that doesn't matter.
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    I understand about the prop blend, but nonetheless 110mg vs 75mg. Also, im honestly curious, not sounding like an prick, does erase have bloodwork to show?
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    No, we do not have company produced blood work to use as marketing. Erase speaks for itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    I understand about the prop blend, but nonetheless 110mg vs 75mg. Also, im honestly curious, not sounding like an prick, does erase have bloodwork to show?
    Well you SAY its 110, yet from all the feedback ive seen from Free test no one is getting the joint issues usually associated with low cort/low estrogen, yet with Erase it has happened at 75.

    To me it sounds like its really not dosed accordingly, and as long as its hidden within a prop blend ill continue to feel this way.

    And nonetheless, it isnt just 110mg VS 75. Free test costs more, and while it may have additional ingredients, not all of them are beneficial. Take forskolin for example, it is shown in literature to upregulate aromatase. I wouldnt pay more for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I love the uncertain qualifier 'about' that you have to throw in there. Regardless of what "Dirk" might say, until that labels changed it's still a hidden blend in my eyes. I'm not trying to hate on Free Test, its just the way it is.
    We manufacture all of our products in our own facility- so yes, it is 110 mg per 4 capsules...it is a prop blend to protect the formulation- lot of copycats out there
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    Well you SAY its 110, yet from all the feedback ive seen from Free test no one is getting the joint issues usually associated with low cort/low estrogen, yet with Erase it has happened at 75.

    To me it sounds like its really not dosed accordingly, and as long as its hidden within a prop blend ill continue to feel this way.

    And nonetheless, it isnt just 110mg VS 75. Free test costs more, and while it may have additional ingredients, not all of them are beneficial. Take forskolin for example, it is shown in literature to upregulate aromatase. I wouldnt pay more for that.
    Last time I checked, dry joints aren't a good thing
    Forskolin has been shown to elevate test levels as well, hence the inclusion in the formulation
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Last time I checked, dry joints aren't a good thing
    Forskolin has been shown to elevate test levels as well, hence the inclusion in the formulation:
    Of course they arent, but its a common side effect of the ingredient 3,7 keto dhea apparently. I dont understand why Erase gives it at 75mg but Free test doesnt at your 110mg dosage.

    Ive read a study on forskolin that showed an increase in testosterone, but it was only by about 3%.

    Edit - Just to clarify, the 3% change was in association with free testosterone increase. Not total.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    Well you SAY its 110, yet from all the feedback ive seen from Free test no one is getting the joint issues usually associated with low cort/low estrogen, yet with Erase it has happened at 75.

    To me it sounds like its really not dosed accordingly, and as long as its hidden within a prop blend ill continue to feel this way.

    And nonetheless, it isnt just 110mg VS 75. Free test costs more, and while it may have additional ingredients, not all of them are beneficial. Take forskolin for example, it is shown in literature to upregulate aromatase. I wouldnt pay more for that.
    Resveratrol has been shown in several studies to have some positive effects on cartilage- this is one of the reasons I included it in the formulation, along with quercetin to prevent the glucorinidation of res-v. I noticed a pretty significant reduction in joint pain when I took a decent dose of res-v/quercetin a few years ago when I was taking 6-Bromo (it kills my joints), so when were developing the product, it seemed like a logical choice to try in a beta. The first beta for Free Test didn't contain res-v and quercetin, and it was dosed around 140 mg/4 capsules- 5 out of 5 testers had to quit taking it because it was murdering their joints. The second beta had res-v and quercetin along with a 120 mg/4 capsule dose, and only 1 person out of 10 complained of joint pain.... here are a couple studies- not great because they were animal studies- but they are directional:

    Biochem Pharmacol. 2008 Dec 1;76(11):1426-39. Epub 2008 Jun 3.
    Resveratrol suppresses interleukin-1beta-induced inflammatory signaling and apoptosis in human articular chondrocytes: potential for use as a novel nutraceutical for the treatment of osteoarthritis.
    Shakibaei M, Csaki C, Nebrich S, Mobasheri A.
    SourceLudwig-Maximilians-University Munich, Faculty of Medicine, Institute of Anatomy, Musculoskeletal Research Group, Pettenkoferstrasse 11, D-80336 Munich, Germany. mehdi.shakibaei@med.uni-muenchen.de

    Abstract
    Osteoarthritis is an inflammatory disease of load-bearing synovial joints that is currently treated with drugs that exhibit numerous side effects and are only temporarily effective on pain, the main symptom of the disease. Consequently, there is an acute need for novel, safe and more effective chemotherapeutic agents for the treatment of osteoarthritis and related arthritic diseases. Resveratrol is a phytoalexin stilbene produced naturally by plants including red grapes, peanuts and various berries. Recent research in various cell models has demonstrated that resveratrol is safe and has potent anti-inflammatory properties. However, its potential for treating arthritic conditions has not been explored. In this study we provide experimental evidence that resveratrol inhibits the expression of VEGF, MMP-3, MMP-9 and COX-2 in human articular chondrocytes stimulated with the pro-inflammatory cytokine IL-1beta. Since these gene products are regulated by the transcription factor NF-kappaB, we investigated the effects of resveratrol on IL-1beta-induced NF-kappaB signaling pathway. Resveratrol, like N-Ac-Leu-Leu-norleucinal (ALLN) suppressed IL-1beta-induced proteasome function and the degradation of IkappaBalpha (an inhibitor of NF-kappaB) without affecting IkappaBalpha kinase activation, IkappaBalpha-phosphorylation or IkappaBalpha-ubiquitination which suppressed nuclear translocation of the p65 subunit of NF-kappaB and its phosphorylation. Furthermore, we observed that resveratrol as well as ALLN inhibited IL-1beta-induced apoptosis, caspase-3 activation and PARP cleavage in human articular chondrocytes. In summary, our results suggest that resveratrol suppresses apoptosis and inflammatory signaling through its actions on the NF-kappaB pathway in human chondrocytes. We propose that resveratrol should be explored further for the prophylactic treatment of osteoarthritis in humans and companion animals.


    Arthritis Res Ther. 2010;12(5):R167. Epub 2010 Sep 8.
    Chondroprotective effects and mechanisms of resveratrol in advanced glycation end products-stimulated chondrocytes.
    Liu FC, Hung LF, Wu WL, Chang DM, Huang CY, Lai JH, Ho LJ.
    SourceGraduate Institute of Medical Science, National Defense Medical Center, Neihu 114, Taipei, Taiwan, ROC.

    Abstract
    INTRODUCTION: Accumulation of advanced glycation end products (AGEs) in joints contributes to the pathogenesis of cartilage damage in osteoarthritis (OA). We aim to explore the potential chondroprotective effects of resveratrol on AGEs-stimulated porcine chondrocytes and cartilage explants.

    METHODS: Chondrocytes were isolated from pig joints. Activation of the IκB kinase (IKK)-IκBα-nuclear factor-kappaB (NF-κB) and c-Jun N-terminal kinase (JNK)/extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK)-activator protein-1 (AP-1) pathways was assessed by electrophoretic mobility shift assay (EMSA), Western blot and transfection assay. The levels of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS)-NO and cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2)-prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) were measured by Western blot, Griess reaction or ELISA. The expression and enzyme activity of matrix metalloproteinase-13 (MMP-13) were determined by real time RT/PCR and gelatin zymography, respectively.

    RESULTS: We show that AGEs-induced expression of iNOS and COX-2 and production of NO and PGE2 were suppressed by resveratrol. Such effects of resveratrol were likely mediated through inhibiting IKK-IκBα-NF-κB and JNK/ERK-AP-1 signaling pathways induced by AGEs. By targeting these critical signaling pathways, resveratrol decreased AGEs-stimulated expression and activity of MMP-13 and prevented AGEs-mediated destruction of collagen II. Histochemistry analysis further confirms that resveratrol could prevent AGEs-induced degradation of proteoglycan and aggrecan in cartilage explants.

    CONCLUSIONS: The present study reveals not only the effects and mechanisms regarding how resveratrol may protect cartilage from AGEs-mediated damage but also the potential therapeutic benefit of resveratrol in the treatment of OA.


    Spine (Phila Pa 1976). 2008 Nov 15;33(24):2586-95.
    The action of resveratrol, a phytoestrogen found in grapes, on the intervertebral disc.
    Li X, Phillips FM, An HS, Ellman M, Thonar EJ, Wu W, Park D, Im HJ.
    SourceDepartment of Biochemistry, Section of Rheumatology, Rush University Medical Center, Chicago, IL 60612, USA.

    Abstract
    STUDY DESIGN: Basic science, biologic study.

    OBJECTIVE: To determine the potential benefits of using resveratrol (RSV) for intervertebral disc (IVD) matrix repair and regeneration.

    SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: The phytoestrogen RSV is a natural compound found in various plants including grapes and red wines. RSV has been reported to provide a protective effect on articular cartilage in rabbit models for arthritis, but its effect on spine cartilage is unknown. METHODS.: We studied the effect of RSV on bovine IVD cartilage homeostasis by assessing MMP-13 (potent catabolic factor) production, proteoglycan (PG) accumulation and synthesis, and the interaction between RSV and known catabolic factors such as bFGF or IL-1. To understand the molecular mechanisms by which RSV modulates MMP-13 and PG production, we also investigated its downstream target regulatory molecules.

    RESULTS: Stimulation of bovine disc cells cultured in monolayer with bFGF or IL-1 augmented the production of MMP-13 and ADAMTS-4 at the transcriptional level and this augmentation was blocked by RSV. Incubation of nucleus pulposus cells with RSV for 21 days significantly increased PG accumulation per cell in a dose-dependent manner, increased PG synthesis, rescued PG losses induced by catabolic reagents bFGF and IL-1, and promoted cell survival to levels seen after incubation with the anabolic protein BMP7 100 ng/mL. Protein-DNA interaction array results suggest that RSV effectively suppresses downstream target molecules of bFGF and IL-1 responsible for oxidative stress, proliferation, and apoptosis.

    CONCLUSION: Resveratrol is a potent anabolic mediator of bovine IVD cartilage homeostasis, revealing its potential as a unique biologic treatment to slow the progression of IVD degeneration. These data suggests RSV may have considerable promise in the treatment of disc degeneration.



    A good Forskolin study:

    Obes Res. 2005 Aug;13(8):1335-43.
    Body composition and hormonal adaptations associated with forskolin consumption in overweight and obese men.
    Godard MP, Johnson BA, Richmond SR.
    SourceUniversity of Kansas, Department of Health, Sport and Exercise Sciences, Applied Physiology Laboratory, Lawrence, KS 66045, USA. mgodard@ku.edu

    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE: This study examined the effect of forskolin on body composition, testosterone, metabolic rate, and blood pressure in overweight and obese (BMI > or = 26 kg/m(2)) men.

    RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURE: Thirty subjects (forskolin, n = 15; placebo, n = 15) were studied in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study for 12 weeks.

    RESULTS: Forskolin was shown to elicit favorable changes in body composition by significantly decreasing body fat percentage (BF%) and fat mass (FM) as determined by DXA compared with the placebo group (p < or = 0.05). Additionally, forskolin administration resulted in a change in bone mass for the 12-week trial compared with the placebo group (p < or = 0.05). There was a trend toward a significant increase for lean body mass in the forskolin group compared with the placebo group (p = 0.097). Serum free testosterone levels were significantly increased in the forskolin group compared with the placebo group (p < or = 0.05). The actual change in serum total testosterone concentration was not significantly different among groups, but it increased 16.77 +/- 33.77% in the forskolin group compared with a decrease of 1.08 +/- 18.35% in the placebo group.

    DISCUSSION: Oral ingestion of forskolin (250 mg of 10% forskolin extract twice a day) for a 12-week period was shown to favorably alter body composition while concurrently increasing bone mass and serum free testosterone levels in overweight and obese men. The results indicate that forskolin is a possible therapeutic agent for the management and treatment of obesity.
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    Of course they arent, but its a common side effect of the ingredient 3,7 keto dhea apparently. I dont understand why Erase gives it at 75mg but Free test doesnt at your 110mg dosage.

    Ive read a study on forskolin that showed an increase in testosterone, but it was only by about 3%.

    Edit - Just to clarify, the 3% change was in association with free testosterone increase. Not total.
    You raise some good points- and the directionality amongst the testers is more anecdotal than scientific, but it was a noticeable reduction in everybody that I have talked to. I have heard of instances of very mild joint pain from some individuals on Free Test- but they have been few and far between
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals
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