shift alpha t2

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    shift alpha t2


    Anyone have any opinions on these? R they thyroid suppressive? What should i expect results wise caj i stack ot with eca?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    Anyone have any opinions on these? R they thyroid suppressive? What should i expect results wise caj i stack ot with eca?
    Many people have opinions on them - there have been done multiple logs and reviews on both products, with feedback given. Take a look around here and review them.

    Places to start:
    PES Alpha-T2 Reviews
    PES SHIFT Reviews
    PES Product Manual eBook - Learn to STACK - Download here

    Neither Alpha-T2 or Shift are thyroid suppressive. Yes, you can stack both products with ECA.

    I also recommend looking through the PES subforum.

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    Sponsored comments and testimonials.. dont like that.. nice avi, had no idea u looked like that
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    Sponsored comments and testimonials.. dont like that.. nice avi, had no idea u looked like that
    Not all were sponsored. In any case, look around in the Supplement Reviews and Logs subforum for more - there are plenty out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    Sponsored comments and testimonials.. dont like that.. nice avi, had no idea u looked like that
    Almost all of those reviews are not sponsored. I browsed forums and websites and have gathered them over time
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Almost all of those reviews are not sponsored. I browsed forums and websites and have gathered them over time
    the fact that you quoted them was misleading... to me anyway.. Also i read some logs last night that said they had no noticable difference in body weight just thought they may have lost body fat..

    in practice that would be great, but until there is some peer reviewed independent academic research to back 3,3 with a proper dosing protocol like many other substances i will hold off on buying these products.. thanks for your continued help in my progress...

    supplements i held off on until i found some peer reviewed stuff..\

    Beta Alanine
    Citrulline Malate
    7-keto metabolites
    DAA


    took the leap without knowledge of research:
    ECA
    Creatine
    Horny Goat weed, lecithin, saw palmetto, Maca stack (increased semen volume in my own personal trials measured with teaspoons and increased count to over 100million/ml from 25 million/ml)
    Testofen(research later surfaced that i was unaware of)


    That is all..
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    the fact that you quoted them was misleading... to me anyway.. Also i read some logs last night that said they had no noticable difference in body weight just thought they may have lost body fat..

    in practice that would be great, but until there is some peer reviewed independent academic research to back 3,3 with a proper dosing protocol like many other substances i will hold off on buying these products.. thanks for your continued help in my progress...
    Losing bodyfat does not mean that a loss in body mass is going to occur - particularly if some lean gains are made.

    Re studies on the ingredients in Shift and Alpha-T2, review Scientific data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    the fact that you quoted them was misleading... to me anyway.. Also i read some logs last night that said they had no noticable difference in body weight just thought they may have lost body fat..

    in practice that would be great, but until there is some peer reviewed independent academic research to back 3,3 with a proper dosing protocol like many other substances i will hold off on buying these products.. thanks for your continued help in my progress...

    supplements i held off on until i found some peer reviewed stuff..\

    Beta Alanine
    Citrulline Malate
    7-keto metabolites
    DAA


    took the leap without knowledge of research:
    ECA
    Creatine
    Horny Goat weed, lecithin, saw palmetto, Maca stack (increased semen volume in my own personal trials measured with teaspoons and increased count to over 100million/ml from 25 million/ml)
    Testofen(research later surfaced that i was unaware of)


    That is all..
    How was he misleading? So you write a research paper and quote someone and give them credit, are you then being misleading?

    As for the rest of the post, I don't see how that has any relevance to this conversation, but Rosie was kind enough to point you to plenty of research you were looking for.

    That is the beauty of free market, you have your option to purchase or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    Also i read some logs last night that said they had no noticable difference in body weight just thought they may have lost body fat..
    Thats a good thing...many of the users were in a lean bulk or recomp, meaning they wanted to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time.
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    If I was losing fat and my bodyweight stayed the same I would be extremely pleased. Who wants to lose lean body mass if you can increase it simultaneously?

    Not me.
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    Yes i thought i made it clear that i thought losing fat would be perfect... But i also do not believe that someone using the product can look at their body and objectively state that they lost no body weight but lost fat...

    unless they had before and after bod pod results that wouldnt be enough..


    and dadams those studies are just the abstract no conclusion. the only thing definitive i saw was the rat article (not study) that states that hypothyroid rats SEEMED to have some response to T-2..
    Also dadams, how could you not see the relevance of me showing what supplements i use that have research and if you notice most of the supplements i used with no research now have research to back them up.
    And dadams how could you not see the relevance of me stating that i dont believe people can tell whether they lost fat or not without any before or after measurements of their bodyfat?


    i cant tell if you are trying to respond to me or just turn me off to you personally..

    thanks for the sarcasm and for alerting me to the fact that i live in a free market society i truely appreciate that as i was previously unaware to that fact...

    however i regret to say that i will stick to my current supplements until someone pays to publish these supposed "studies" that prove the value of these ingredients

    thanks for your time and effort in helping me to understand the society i live in and make a decision on whether or not i should buy a supplement for which i have no research..
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    Yes i thought i made it clear that i thought losing fat would be perfect... But i also do not believe that someone using the product can look at their body and objectively state that they lost no body weight but lost fat...

    unless they had before and after bod pod results that wouldnt be enough..
    This is your opinion and we respect that. However, an individual who knows their body well enough could indeed make such an observation and statement - I know that I most certainly can and do, and could do the same for others as well, whether they had changed scale weight or not.

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    The studies have copywrites. Anyone who publishes them publicly is violating the copywrite.

    If you want to read the entire studies and not just the abstract, you have to pay the fee to the journal. We do not own the journal, so we can not supply them to the public for free. We bought the studies to read
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee Scott View Post
    This is your opinion and we respect that. However, an individual who knows their body well enough could indeed make such an observation and statement - I know that I most certainly can and do, and could do the same for others as well, whether they had changed scale weight or not.

    ~Rosie~


    cool, i work only in #s, i will be posting blood work for my run of testopro and erase.. my before bloods are already on the board

    total test- 559
    estrodial- 50

    i will post the actual paperwork with the before and after bloods when i am done with my run in 3 weeks...

    we will find out if Erase truely has the estrogen reduction properties that PES and the studies claim (in my body that is) and you will be able to quantify it!

    wouldnt that be a lot more convincing than a person saying "i didnt lose any weight but i lost some fat"
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    The studies all copywrites. Anyone who publishes them publicly is violating the copywrite.

    If you want to read the entire studies and not just the abstract, you have to pay the fee to the journal. We do not own the journal, so we can not supply them to the public for free. We bought the studies to read
    thats cool bro, and i know you are doing your job... i actually like you a lot... and i appreciate the fact that you guys are reading the studies before you put the product out... Thats what i would expect from a good company..

    But eventually, maybe months, maybe years down the line, someone will pay to publicly publish the study (or the copyright will expire) and it will be peer reviewed and that is what i will base my purchase on... i have my whole life i am in no rush!!!

    if i was in a rush however i would probably buy something stronger like 11kt.... but thats a whole other topic in itself
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    I can attest that Alpha-T2 is some serious stuff for fat loss. My weight has stayed roughly the same, but my pants are loose compared to a few weeks ago. Diet has stayed the same, training has as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    Yes i thought i made it clear that i thought losing fat would be perfect... But i also do not believe that someone using the product can look at their body and objectively state that they lost no body weight but lost fat...

    unless they had before and after bod pod results that wouldnt be enough..


    and dadams those studies are just the abstract no conclusion. the only thing definitive i saw was the rat article (not study) that states that hypothyroid rats SEEMED to have some response to T-2..
    Also dadams, how could you not see the relevance of me showing what supplements i use that have research and if you notice most of the supplements i used with no research now have research to back them up.
    And dadams how could you not see the relevance of me stating that i dont believe people can tell whether they lost fat or not without any before or after measurements of their bodyfat?


    i cant tell if you are trying to respond to me or just turn me off to you personally..

    thanks for the sarcasm and for alerting me to the fact that i live in a free market society i truely appreciate that as i was previously unaware to that fact...

    however i regret to say that i will stick to my current supplements until someone pays to publish these supposed "studies" that prove the value of these ingredients

    thanks for your time and effort in helping me to understand the society i live in and make a decision on whether or not i should buy a supplement for which i have no research..
    I wasn't even being a **** there squidward.

    Your argument is extremely straw man considering you were provided with places to go to get the information you requested. Plenty of science to back everything up.

    Then you go on to say you don't take anything without research, then you say you took stuff without research, but now it does so it is okay?! That makes absolutely no sense.

    To say people cannot see fatloss is so very arbitrary to this argument, especially when many around here are dedicated and highly trained, some of which compete, but yet cannot tell when they lose fat? As Rosie mentioned, she can tell the slightest difference, Andrew372 is so in tune with his body he can pop a zit with his mind. So to discount anecdotal, empirical and statistical research is a bit ominous on your part... but I do not believe you started this thread to gain any insight whatsoever especially since they are peer reviewed, just we do not hold publishing right.

    Take that as you will.... that is all
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I wasn't even being a **** there squidward.

    Your argument is extremely straw man considering you were provided with places to go to get the information you requested. Plenty of science to back everything up.

    Then you go on to say you don't take anything without research, then you say you took stuff without research, but now it does so it is okay?! That makes absolutely no sense.

    To say people cannot see fatloss is so very arbitrary to this argument, especially when many around here are dedicated and highly trained, some of which compete, but yet cannot tell when they lose fat? As Rosie mentioned, she can tell the slightest difference, Andrew372 is so in tune with his body he can pop a zit with his mind. So to discount anecdotal, empirical and statistical research is a bit ominous on your part... but I do not believe you started this thread to gain any insight whatsoever especially since they are peer reviewed, just we do not hold publishing right.

    Take that as you will.... that is all
    Was tempted not to respond, but i feel i owe it to the supplement buying community..

    abstracts prove nothing.. as nattydisaster said i would have to pay for the conclusions.. therefore there is no research that is available to me, the burden of proof is on you.. im not dying to take anything, u r trying to sell me something (ur company that is), so until there is research freely available to me, dont claim that there is empirical research that should help me make my decision. Maybe it has helped u make urs because u have access to it, but i do not..

    You can pay people to get bloods done showing thyroid levels and that would be better than what u r offering. What did layne norton do? He paid a college to do a study on his main product xtend.. though the methods r flawed the sample size is small and the controll group isnt really controlled it is better than him telling me to pay to read studies about something he is selling.

    So now that the empirical evidence u claim to have is out of the way

    Anecdotal evidence may be enough for some people, and it would be for me too if it came with their blood work or b4 and after pics..

    The stuff i took b4 there was research to back it was either when i was young like 8yrs ago or recommended by a doctor/herbalist who had no vested interest in whether i bought the products or not..

    You would be a better salesman if u realized the burden of proof was on u...

    I was whole heartedly expecting:
    A) go here for complete studies [insert link]
    B)) check out this blood work
    C) go to my company site and read about the study we conducted
    D) check out these b4 and after pics

    I am dissapointed
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezjax View Post
    Was tempted not to respond, but i feel i owe it to the supplement buying community..

    abstracts prove nothing.. as nattydisaster said i would have to pay for the conclusions.. therefore there is no research that is available to me, the burden of proof is on you.. im not dying to take anything, u r trying to sell me something (ur company that is), so until there is research freely available to me, dont claim that there is empirical research that should help me make my decision. Maybe it has helped u make urs because u have access to it, but i do not..

    You can pay people to get bloods done showing thyroid levels and that would be better than what u r offering. What did layne norton do? He paid a college to do a study on his main product xtend.. though the methods r flawed the sample size is small and the controll group isnt really controlled it is better than him telling me to pay to read studies about something he is selling.

    So now that the empirical evidence u claim to have is out of the way

    Anecdotal evidence may be enough for some people, and it would be for me too if it came with their blood work or b4 and after pics..

    The stuff i took b4 there was research to back it was either when i was young like 8yrs ago or recommended by a doctor/herbalist who had no vested interest in whether i bought the products or not..

    You would be a better salesman if u realized the burden of proof was on u...

    I was whole heartedly expecting:
    A) go here for complete studies [insert link]
    B)) check out this blood work
    C) go to my company site and read about the study we conducted
    D) check out these b4 and after pics

    I am dissapointed
    I am not a salesman, and we have not knocked on your door trying to sell anything. Thank God you posted that for the supplement buying community though. Personally I could care less what you buy.

    Ironic you bring up before and afters, considering they are posted on the website for everyone to see, Kevinhy is running now, FlawedGrunt has his... eh, why bother.

    I will leave it at that.
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    EZ,
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    Forgive me if im wrong, but isnt it a little dangerous to stack eca with alpha-t2 because of the combination of E and Y possibly sending your BP/HR through the cieling?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigruss757 View Post
    Forgive me if im wrong, but isnt it a little dangerous to stack eca with alpha-t2 because of the combination of E and Y possibly sending your BP/HR through the cieling?
    It is dangerous to stack Ephedrine with anything, or take it by itself, if you are dosing it too high. Thats why it cannot be sold as a dietary supplement. It was abused IMO

    Alpha-T2 does not use yohimbine though, it uses alpha-yohimbine, which although has the word yohimbine in it, its completely different (just to clarify)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigruss757 View Post
    Forgive me if im wrong, but isnt it a little dangerous to stack eca with alpha-t2 because of the combination of E and Y possibly sending your BP/HR through the cieling?
    It can be dangerous to stack ephedrine with anything, as Josh mentioned. However, "dangerous" is relative to each individual and their tolerance for stimulants, including ephedrine, as well as being dependent in part on what product they are stacking with it. Each individual should know their stimulant tolerances and make a sensible and informed decision if ever considering stacking ephedrine with anything.

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