shift alpha t2
- 04-17-2011, 10:38 PM
- 04-17-2011, 10:43 PM
Places to start:
PES Alpha-T2 Reviews
PES SHIFT Reviews
PES Product Manual eBook - Learn to STACK - Download here
Neither or are thyroid suppressive. Yes, you can stack both products with ECA.
I also recommend looking through the PES subforum.
- 04-17-2011, 10:51 PM
04-17-2011, 11:00 PM
04-18-2011, 09:54 AM
04-18-2011, 02:39 PM
in practice that would be great, but until there is some peer reviewed independent academic research to back 3,3 with a proper dosing protocol like many other substances i will hold off on buying these products.. thanks for your continued help in my progress...
supplements i held off on until i found some peer reviewed stuff..\
took the leap without knowledge of research:
Horny Goat weed, lecithin, saw palmetto, Maca stack (increased semen volume in my own personal trials measured with teaspoons and increased count to over 100million/ml from 25 million/ml)
Testofen(research later surfaced that i was unaware of)
That is all..
04-18-2011, 02:57 PM
Re studies on the ingredients in Shift and Alpha-T2, review Scientific data.
04-18-2011, 03:28 PM
As for the rest of the post, I don't see how that has any relevance to this conversation, but Rosie was kind enough to point you to plenty of research you were looking for.
That is the beauty of free market, you have your option to purchase or not.
The Historic PES Legend
04-18-2011, 04:00 PM
04-18-2011, 04:04 PM
If I was losing fat and my bodyweight stayed the same I would be extremely pleased. Who wants to lose lean body mass if you can increase it simultaneously?
04-18-2011, 08:52 PM
Yes i thought i made it clear that i thought losing fat would be perfect... But i also do not believe that someone using the product can look at their body and objectively state that they lost no body weight but lost fat...
unless they had before and after bod pod results that wouldnt be enough..
and dadams those studies are just the abstract no conclusion. the only thing definitive i saw was the rat article (not study) that states that hypothyroid rats SEEMED to have some response to T-2..
Also dadams, how could you not see the relevance of me showing what supplements i use that have research and if you notice most of the supplements i used with no research now have research to back them up.
And dadams how could you not see the relevance of me stating that i dont believe people can tell whether they lost fat or not without any before or after measurements of their bodyfat?
i cant tell if you are trying to respond to me or just turn me off to you personally..
thanks for the sarcasm and for alerting me to the fact that i live in a free market society i truely appreciate that as i was previously unaware to that fact...
however i regret to say that i will stick to my current supplements until someone pays to publish these supposed "studies" that prove the value of these ingredients
thanks for your time and effort in helping me to understand the society i live in and make a decision on whether or not i should buy a supplement for which i have no research..
04-18-2011, 08:59 PM
04-18-2011, 09:02 PM
The studies have copywrites. Anyone who publishes them publicly is violating the copywrite.
If you want to read the entire studies and not just the abstract, you have to pay the fee to the journal. We do not own the journal, so we can not supply them to the public for free. We bought the studies to read
04-18-2011, 09:04 PM
cool, i work only in #s, i will be posting blood work for my run of testopro and erase.. my before bloods are already on the board
total test- 559
i will post the actual paperwork with the before and after bloods when i am done with my run in 3 weeks...
we will find out if Erase truely has the estrogen reduction properties that PES and the studies claim (in my body that is) and you will be able to quantify it!
wouldnt that be a lot more convincing than a person saying "i didnt lose any weight but i lost some fat"
04-18-2011, 09:07 PM
But eventually, maybe months, maybe years down the line, someone will pay to publicly publish the study (or the copyright will expire) and it will be peer reviewed and that is what i will base my purchase on... i have my whole life i am in no rush!!!
if i was in a rush however i would probably buy something stronger like 11kt.... but thats a whole other topic in itself
04-21-2011, 02:28 PM
I can attest that Alpha-T2 is some serious stuff for fat loss. My weight has stayed roughly the same, but my pants are loose compared to a few weeks ago. Diet has stayed the same, training has as well.
04-21-2011, 04:09 PM
Your argument is extremely straw man considering you were provided with places to go to get the information you requested. Plenty of science to back everything up.
Then you go on to say you don't take anything without research, then you say you took stuff without research, but now it does so it is okay?! That makes absolutely no sense.
To say people cannot see fatloss is so very arbitrary to this argument, especially when many around here are dedicated and highly trained, some of which compete, but yet cannot tell when they lose fat? As Rosie mentioned, she can tell the slightest difference, Andrew372 is so in tune with his body he can pop a zit with his mind. So to discount anecdotal, empirical and statistical research is a bit ominous on your part... but I do not believe you started this thread to gain any insight whatsoever especially since they are peer reviewed, just we do not hold publishing right.
Take that as you will.... that is all
The Historic PES Legend
04-21-2011, 05:17 PM
abstracts prove nothing.. as nattydisaster said i would have to pay for the conclusions.. therefore there is no research that is available to me, the burden of proof is on you.. im not dying to take anything, u r trying to sell me something (ur company that is), so until there is research freely available to me, dont claim that there is empirical research that should help me make my decision. Maybe it has helped u make urs because u have access to it, but i do not..
You can pay people to get bloods done showing thyroid levels and that would be better than what u r offering. What did layne norton do? He paid a college to do a study on his main product xtend.. though the methods r flawed the sample size is small and the controll group isnt really controlled it is better than him telling me to pay to read studies about something he is selling.
So now that the empirical evidence u claim to have is out of the way
Anecdotal evidence may be enough for some people, and it would be for me too if it came with their blood work or b4 and after pics..
The stuff i took b4 there was research to back it was either when i was young like 8yrs ago or recommended by a doctor/herbalist who had no vested interest in whether i bought the products or not..
You would be a better salesman if u realized the burden of proof was on u...
I was whole heartedly expecting:
A) go here for complete studies [insert link]
B)) check out this blood work
C) go to my company site and read about the study we conducted
D) check out these b4 and after pics
I am dissapointed
04-21-2011, 05:37 PM
Ironic you bring up before and afters, considering they are posted on the website for everyone to see, Kevinhy is running now, FlawedGrunt has his... eh, why bother.
I will leave it at that.
The Historic PES Legend
04-22-2011, 10:58 AM
04-22-2011, 08:12 PM
Forgive me if im wrong, but isnt it a little dangerous to stack eca with alpha-t2 because of the combination of E and Y possibly sending your BP/HR through the cieling?
04-22-2011, 09:16 PM
Alpha-T2 does not use yohimbine though, it uses alpha-yohimbine, which although has the word yohimbine in it, its completely different (just to clarify)
04-22-2011, 09:24 PM
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