Taurine and Clen
- 07-07-2004, 01:46 AM
Taurine and Clen
I read an article at BB.com stating you should not use Taurine while on clen, what do you guys think about it.
by Big Cat:
"It has come to my attention that some people have been adding taurine to their diets to decrease cramping from clenbuterol or other beta-adrenergic agonists. Whether or not there is any merit to this, I really don't know. I haven't seen any data one way or the other. I assume there must be some truth to the rumour or people wouldn't be doing it. Then again...
Regardless however, supplementing extra taurine during a diet is not advisable. It is indeed true that beta-adrenergic agonists like clenbuterol and ephedrine will reduce taurine levels, no question about it. But did anyone ever stop to think that maybe this has a reason? Your protein intake should stay the same, roughly, which means that these compounds are actively reducing taurine levels.
If anyone had bothered to look these things up for a few seconds they would have known it is with good reason. Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone, noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea.
This lowers the threshold at which glycogen is stored again. This will increase chance of gaining fat during cheat days due to enhanced sensitivity of fat cells to insulin, and limit fat lost on dieting days since the extra stored glycogen will have to be burned again before you start burning fat again.
This is however the least of your concerns. Taurine is also known to reduce Thyroid levels. Studies have demonstrated that a high platelet level of taurine will reduce T3:T4 ratio in men. This would slow down your metabolic rate, meaning you use less calories than you would otherwise. Obviously this will result in less fat lost for the same amount of calories eaten.
Taurine may also reduce cAMP production in certain animals. The extrapolation in this case is a far fetch, but something I would like to see tested in humans. Since the cAMP acts as a second messenger in the process of lipolysis, the process of releasing fatty acids from their glycerol backbone, making them available for burning, this will reduce the amount of fat released and consequently the amount of fat burned.
This all fits nicely into the picture that free form amino acids should not be frequently used on a diet. As with carbohydrates, quickly absorbed sources create higher peak levels that also decline faster. This almost always leads to a favourable situation for a lower metabolism.
When dieting you will opt for carbohydrate sources that absorb slower, so they have less of an effect on factors influencing food intake. The same holds true for protein. You should opt for protein sources with a more anti-catabolic character, that release slower, such as casein. "
Haber CA, Lam TK, Yu Z, Gupta N, Goh T, Bogdanovic E, Giacca A, Fantus IG. N-acetylcysteine and taurine prevent hyperglycemia-induced insulin resistance in vivo: possible role of oxidative stress. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Oct; 285(4): E744-53. Epub 2003 Jun 10.
Baskin SI, Klekotka SJ, Kendrick ZV, Bartuska DG. Correlation of platelet taurine levels with thyroid function. J Endocrinol Invest. 1979 Jul-Sep; 2(3): 245-9.
Hayakawa Y, Downer RG, Bodnaryk RP. Taurine inhibits octopamine-stimulated cAMP production.. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1987 Jun 15; 929(1): 117-20.
- 07-07-2004, 04:26 AM
I've heard that the use of clen without taurine is really hard on your liver... I'm not sure how true that is though.
- 07-07-2004, 09:10 AM
This part doesn't make sense to me:
"If anyone had bothered to look these things up for a few seconds they would have known it is with good reason. Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone, noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea. "
Umm, isn't increasing insulin sensitivity and lowering insulin resistance the same thing?
07-07-2004, 09:51 AM
Yup.Originally Posted by Dan
07-07-2004, 10:05 AM
I've never needed to use taurine with clen anyways.
07-07-2004, 11:14 AM
And isnt that a good thing, to be sensitive to insulin?Originally Posted by Dan
07-07-2004, 12:09 PM
This has been posted on this website before. I would not use the taurine.
I have used clen numerous times w/o any problems. When/if cramping becomes a problem, adding potassium and magnesium takes care of it.
07-07-2004, 12:43 PM
- 5'8" 197 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
What if you do more endurance-type of workouts while on Clen? I would think that taurine and potassium would be needed.
07-07-2004, 01:02 PM
- 6'0" 237 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
I actually stopped taking taurine because of that peice....and you know what?
... not that this is entirely significant considering the reliablility of anecdotal reports, but I didn't notice any difference between just taking potassium vs. potassium and taurine.
07-07-2004, 01:43 PM
I've always used potassium because I've read that about taurine. Also as soon as I add potassium the cramps fade away. So kids just eat potassium like junior mints and all will be well on clen
07-07-2004, 02:33 PM
I sometimes take a little bit of taurine during a natural bulk for the insulin sensitivity and overall health benefits that I've read about, does anyone else here do this?
07-07-2004, 06:00 PM
So are cramps a sign of liver damage?
07-07-2004, 07:05 PM
I took 3g+ of taurine a day while on my clen cycle. I hardly lost any weight, while dieting and doing HIIT, and I still got extremely bad cramps, to the point where I had to stop working out because my legs were locked up. I say screw the taurine, it did jack for me on my clen cycle.
07-07-2004, 07:11 PM
Taurine with clen is much more for then just cramps. It allows for the conversion of t4 to t3 which BC seems to have gotten backwards. So this whole taurine and dieting is BS IMO. I used them in conjuction and it worked great.
Finally Big Cat's scientific expertise is less then perfect.
07-17-2004, 12:16 AM
I did run clen w/o taurine following size/big cat's advice and experienced no real cramping problems.Originally Posted by Scottyo
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