Glutamine and gut size...
- 07-02-2004, 12:05 AM
Glutamine and gut size...
I was reading somewhere (I think an old T-Mag article) that glutamine isn't good for much other than growing large intestines and internal organs. It claims that glutamine is only effective if given straight through an IV. It claims that oral supplementation does nothing. Is there any merti to this claim? I'm wary because I know that Biotest doesn't make a glutamine supplement, not that they couldn't, they just don't. Actually, they do add some glutamine to the Surge post workout drink the sell. Great product by the way...
I know the gut uses much of it for fuel. Even if it uses supplemental glutamine for fuel, isn't it better that it's not taking it from muscle to get the job done?
- 07-02-2004, 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by IHateGymMorons
It is an amino acid, so your body has to use it in some capacity. Its also the most common amino acid in your body, so that also makes me think that your body is doing something with it. I'd be interested to hear other opinions about whether they notice results.
- 07-02-2004, 12:27 PM
what a bunch of bull, I have been using glutamine for about 7 years now on and off and have never seen an increase in gut size, just muscle. You know your getting some glutamine whenever you eat any type of meat. Its just an amino acid, and a very abundant one at that...
07-02-2004, 12:30 PM
That's been my experience too. I don't think the writer actually meant that it hypertrophied organs, he was just saying the glutamine stood more of a chance in growing your stomach than your biceps. Wish I could find the article... I thought it was just a bunch of B.S. from some Glutamine hater.
07-02-2004, 12:37 PM
One example of a study using oral glutamine. It worked, too.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14609312Nutr Neurosci. 2003 Oct;6(5):269-75. Related Articles, Links
Effects of an oral mixture containing glycine, glutamine and niacin on memory, GH and IGF-I secretion in middle-aged and elderly subjects.
Arwert LI, Deijen JB, Drent ML.
Department of Endocrinology, VU University Medical Center, de Boelelaan 1117, 1081 HVAmsterdam, The Netherlands.
Aging is associated with declining activity of the growth hormone-insulin-like growth factor-I (GH-IGF-I) axis and with a decrease in cognitive function. The stimulatory effect of an orally administered nutritional supplement, mainly containing glycine, glutamine and niacin on the GH-IGF-I axis and on mood and cognition was investigated. Forty-two healthy subjects (14 men and 28 women, aged 40-76 years) were enrolled in a randomised, double blind, placebo-controlled trial. They received 5 g of a nutritional supplement or placebo, twice daily orally for a period of 3 weeks. At baseline and after 3 weeks, blood was collected for measurement of serum GH and IGF-I levels and mood and cognitive function were tested. The nutritional supplement ingestion for 3 weeks was found to increase serum GH levels with 70% relatively to placebo, whereas circulating IGF-I levels did not change. Mean GH (+/- SD) increased in this group from 3.23 (+/- 4.78) to 4.67 mU/l (+/- 5.27) (p = 0.03). GH increase was not associated with improvement in mood or memory. Correlation analyses, however, revealed that individual increases in IGF-I, but not GH, were associated with improved memory and vigour. It is concluded that an oral mixture of glycine, glutamine and niacin can enhance GH secretion in healthy middle-aged and elderly subjects.
* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 14609312 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
07-02-2004, 12:38 PM
Another study using oral glutamine. I bolded the text.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14585260Cancer Treat Rev. 2003 Dec;29(6):501-13. Related Articles, Links
Prevention of chemotherapy and radiation toxicity with glutamine.
Savarese DM, Savy G, Vahdat L, Wischmeyer PE, Corey B.
Division of Hematology Oncology, Department of Medicine, University of Massachusetts Medical School, Worcester, MA, USA. email@example.com
GOALS OF THE WORK: Malignancy produces a state of physiologic stress that is characterized by a relative deficiency of glutamine, a condition that is further exacerbated by the effects of cancer treatment. Glutamine deficiency may impact on normal tissue tolerance to antitumor treatment, and may lead to dose reductions and compromised treatment outcome. Providing supplemental glutamine during cancer treatment has the potential to abrogate treatment-related toxicity. We reviewed the available data on the use of glutamine to decrease the incidence and severity of adverse effects due to chemotherapy and/or radiation in cancer patients. METHODS: We performed a search of the MEDLINE database during the time period 1980-2003, and reviewed the English language literature of both human and animal studies pertaining to the use of glutamine in subjects with cancer. We also manually searched the bibliographies of published articles for relevant references. MAIN RESULTS: The available evidence suggests that glutamine supplementation may decrease the incidence and/or severity of chemotherapy-associated mucositis, irinotecan-associated diarrhea, paclitaxel-induced neuropathy, hepatic veno-occlusive disease in the setting of high dose chemotherapy and stem cell transplantation, and the cardiotoxicity that accompanies anthracycline use. Oral glutamine supplementation may enhance the therapeutic index by protecting normal tissues from, and sensitizing tumor cells to chemotherapy and radiation-related injury. CONCLUSIONS: The role of glutamine in the prevention of chemotherapy and radiation-induced toxicity is evolving. Glutamine supplementation is inexpensive and it may reduce the incidence of gastrointestinal, neurologic, and possibly cardiac complications of cancer therapy. Further studies, particularly placebo-controlled phase III trials, are needed to define its role in chemotherapy-induced toxicity.
* Review, Academic
PMID: 14585260 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
07-02-2004, 12:41 PM
Here is a study that used it along with creatine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=12930166J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Aug;17(3):425-38. Related Articles, Links
The effects of 8 weeks of creatine monohydrate and glutamine supplementation on body composition and performance measures.
Lehmkuhl M, Malone M, Justice B, Trone G, Pistilli E, Vinci D, Haff EE, Kilgore JL, Haff GG.
Department of Nutrition and Food Science, Auburn University, Auburn, AL 36849, USA.
Twenty-nine (17 men, 12 women) collegiate track and field athletes were randomly divided into a creatine monohydrate (CM, n = 10) group, creatine monohydrate and glutamine (CG, n = 10) group, or placebo (P, n = 9) group. The CM group received 0.3 g creatine.kg body mass per day for 1 week, followed by 0.03 g creatine.kg body mass per day for 7 weeks. The CG group received the same creatine dosage scheme as the CM group plus 4 g glutamine.day(-1). All 3 treatment groups participated in an identical periodized strength and conditioning program during preseason training. Body composition, vertical jump, and cycle performances were tested before (T1) and after (T2) the 8-week supplementation period. Body mass and lean body mass (LBM) increased at a greater rate for the CM and CG groups, compared with the P treatment. Additionally, the CM and CG groups exhibited significantly greater improvement in initial rate of power production, compared with the placebo treatment. These results suggest CM and CG significantly increase body mass, LBM, and initial rate of power production during multiple cycle ergometer bouts.
* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 12930166 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
07-02-2004, 12:43 PM
Impact of oral L-glutamine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11985937Nutrition. 2002 May;18(5):367-70. Related Articles, Links
Impact of oral L-glutamine on glutathione, glutamine, and glutamate blood levels in volunteers.
Valencia E, Marin A, Hardy G.
Pharmaceutical Nutrition Group, School of Biological and Molecular Sciences, Oxford Brookes University, Oxford, United Kingdom.firstname.lastname@example.org k
OBJECTIVE: We investigated the effect of glutamine supplementation on plasma glutamine (Gln), glutamate (Glu), and whole-blood glutathione (GSH) concentrations in human volunteers. METHODS: Subjects first adapted to a standard diet with known intakes of protein, total GSH, cysteine, methionine, and total Glu (Glu values include Glu and Gln) for 3 d. Plasma Gln, Glu, and whole-blood GSH levels were then measured at 4-h intervals over 24 h. Supplemental oral Gln (0.3 g x kg(-1) x d(-1)) was ingested for 10 d and then 24-h plasma levels of Gln, Glu, and whole-blood GSH were measured. RESULTS: The plasma concentrations of Glu (116%; P = 0.006) and Gln (20%; P = 0.046) were significantly higher, whereas concentrations of GSH were significantly lower (37%; P = 0.00091) after oral Gln supplementation. CONCLUSION: Oral Gln increases Glu and Gln levels in plasma of healthy subjects but does not increase GSH red cell (whole-blood) levels. Thus, GSH biosynthesis and preservation of GHS stores in red blood cells may involve rate-limiting substrates other than Gln.
PMID: 11985937 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
07-04-2004, 10:41 PM
Many many ppl strongly believe that Glutamine does absolutely nothing unless injected. It is said to be turned into gluclose inside the body. I cant tell which is true. But I am interested in the gut thing. Im hoping it doesnt cause ur gut to grow that wouldnt be good...Because my creatine comes with ala among a few other things and glutamine I believe.
07-04-2004, 10:54 PM
It doesnt make your gut grow....Reason that t-mag said that it makes your gut grow is becuase of the supposed increase in growth hormone which leads to gut growth....That is a very very outdated issue of t-mag and glutamine is the ****. It is the most abundantly found amino acid in skelatal tissue.
07-05-2004, 08:49 AM
Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.
Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.
College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.
The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.
The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance
Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.
Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, USA.
The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean +/- SE: age, 21.5 +/- 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 +/- 2.8 kg(-1)) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g x kg(-1)) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.
The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.
Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. RH01769@RH.DK
The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.
07-05-2004, 08:52 AM
There's a whole lot more of these. Taken orally it gets broken down to quickly.
07-05-2004, 10:49 AM
The longest study you mentioned was six weeks. Its possible that the positive effects could take longer than that. None of those studys looked at the strengthening effects on the immune system.....a common claim for glutamine.Originally Posted by Scottyo
07-05-2004, 11:20 AM
I don't believe glutamine has much value on a maintenance or bulking diet, but it may be of value when cutting. It's used for fuel to spare muscle tissue, that's one good thing, it will boost immune system, and it may replace lost glutamine stores when training hard. I definitely believe it WILL NOT grow a gut!!!
07-05-2004, 11:52 AM
I didnt look at all the studies but it did not look like any of them look into the anti-catabolic properties of glutamine when under a caloric defecit.
07-05-2004, 05:22 PM
I hope no one here is naive enough to believe that creatine is worthless, but we can locate studies showing that creatine does not work (example below).
My point is this: although the results are divided, there is enough real world information about orally administered glutamine to prove that it has some merit. It is a wonder supplement? Perhaps not. However, calling it worthless is intellectually dishonest.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14574579Eur J Appl Physiol. 2004 Mar;91(2-3):230-7. Epub 2003 Oct 22. Related Articles, Links
Short-term creatine supplementation does not improve muscle activation or sprint performance in humans.
Kinugasa R, Akima H, Ota A, Ohta A, Sugiura K, Kuno SY.
Graduate School of Health and Sport Science, Nippon Sport Science University, 7-1-1 Fukasawa, Setagaya, 158-8508, Tokyo, Japan. email@example.com
The purpose of this study was to examine the influence of short-term creatine (Cr) supplementation on exercise-induced transverse relaxation time (T2) and sprint performance during maximum intermittent cycling exercise using the muscle functional magnetic resonance imaging (mfMRI) technique. Twelve men were divided into a Cr supplementation group [the Cr group, taking 4 x (5 g Cr monohydrate + 2.5 g maltodextrin)/day], or a placebo supplementation group (the P group, taking 4 x 7.5 g maltodextrin/day). The allocation to the groups was based on cycling tests and the subject's physical characteristics, and thus was not randomized. A double-blind research design was employed for a 5-day supplementation period. mfMR images of the right thigh were collected at rest and immediately after two, five, and ten 6-s sprint bouts of maximum intermittent cycling exercise with a 30-s recovery interval between sets. Before and after supplementation, blood was taken to calculate lactate accumulation, and the muscle volume of the thigh was determined by MRI. Following supplementation, there was significant body mass gain in the Cr group ( P<0.05), whereas the P group did not change. The exercise-induced T2, blood lactate levels and sprint performance were not affected by Cr supplementation in any sprint bouts. These results suggest that short-term Cr supplementation does not influence short duration repetitive sprint performance and muscle activation and/or metabolic state during sprint cycling evaluated by mfMRI of the skeletal muscle in humans.
PMID: 14574579 [PubMed - in process]
07-05-2004, 05:40 PM
They suspect it, but I do not believe it has been proven. Here is one sample of the information available.Originally Posted by Mr.Striation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11790952Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2002 Jan;5(1):63-7. Related Articles, Links
* Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2002 Jan;5(1):43-5.
Control of protein synthesis by amino acid availability.
Kimball SR, Jefferson LS.
Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, PO Box 850, Hershey, PA 17033, USA. firstname.lastname@example.org
Control of protein synthesis by amino acid availability is an active and centrally important area of research that has produced several recent advances in our understanding of how these substrates serve not only as precursors but also as signaling molecules. One particularly noteworthy advance is the identification of the unique specificity of leucine in signaling to stimulate protein synthesis in skeletal muscle. Leucine mediated signaling results in a stimulation of initiation of mRNA translation and involves increases in the phosphorylation status of the translational repression 4E-BP1 and the ribosomal protein S6 kinase S6K1. It requires sustained activation of the mammalian target of rapamycin protein kinase. Leucine, however, also signals to stimulate protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by a mammalian target of rapamycin protein kinase independent (i.e. rapamycin insensitive) pathway, suggesting that the amino acid may signal through multiple pathways. Furthermore, leucine signaling in skeletal muscle differs from that in liver, suggesting that various responses may be tissue specific. Finally, there continues to be active research on the beneficial effects of glutamine as a unique supplement in catabolic circumstances. In this case, however, the signaling properties and mechanism of action of glutamine remain as an unsolved mystery.
* Review, Tutorial
PMID: 11790952 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
07-05-2004, 05:43 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11533315J Nutr. 2001 Sep;131(9 Suppl):2569S-77S; discussion 2590S. Related Articles, Links
Glutamine alimentation in catabolic state.
Boelens PG, Nijveldt RJ, Houdijk AP, Meijer S, van Leeuwen PA.
Department of Surgery, University Hospital Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Glutamine should be reclassified as a conditionally essential amino acid in the catabolic state because the body's glutamine expenditures exceed synthesis and low glutamine levels in plasma are associated with poor clinical outcome. After severe stress, several amino acids are mobilized from muscle tissue to supply energy and substrate to the host. Glutamine is one of the most important amino acids that provide this function. Glutamine acts as the preferred respiratory fuel for lymphocytes, hepatocytes and intestinal mucosal cells and is metabolized in the gut to citrulline, ammonium and other amino acids. Low concentrations of glutamine in plasma reflect reduced stores in muscle and this reduced availability of glutamine in the catabolic state seems to correlate with increased morbidity and mortality. Adding glutamine to the nutrition of clinical patients, enterally or parenterally, may reduce morbidity. Several excellent clinical trials have been performed to prove efficacy and feasibility of the use of glutamine supplementation in parenteral and enteral nutrition. The increased intake of glutamine has resulted in lower septic morbidity in certain critically ill patient populations. This review will focus on the efficacy and the importance of glutamine supplementation in diverse catabolic states.
* Review, Multicase
* Review, Tutorial
PMID: 11533315 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
07-05-2004, 07:38 PM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
Originally Posted by Cogar
I wouldn't say its divided. The studies that praise glutamine are done on patients or conditions normal people will never epxerience (unless in the hosptial).
Although the ones done on resistance tranined athletes show zero benfit in recovery, strenght or performance.
As for the real world results, you can find just as many people praising it as condeming it in completely uncontrolled settings so I don't find that conclusive at all.
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
07-05-2004, 08:01 PM
I've talked to a few pro/competitive BB friends of mine before and they don't really see any use in it for 90% of the year.
07-05-2004, 08:19 PM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
I've talked to a few and they say 100%
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
07-07-2004, 10:29 AM
I'd agree with Bobo. Unless your cash flow is unlimited and you just want to cover every supplement possible, there are a whole lot better things then glutamine regardless of cutting/bulking. If your IV'ing it, and are a burn victim its great. But taking powder orally your just getting expensive glucose.
07-07-2004, 10:58 AM
Personally, I think BCAA's do a much better job of preserving muscle and providing a fuel source than Glutamine. Think about it, when you're cutting you should be on a high protein diet which is providing massive amounts of Glutamine already. If you can save some money and spend it on BCAA's!
07-07-2004, 11:49 AM
wow, you controlled yourself very well on that one Bobo.... I'm proud!
For those who don't know....let's just say there have been numerous arguments on oral glutamine on this and other boards, with Bobo being quite a contributor to arguing glutamine's relative uselessness in bodybuilding applications
Bottom line: don't waste your coin!!
07-08-2004, 02:14 PM
Man, I've wasted way too much coin on it already. Dammit, wish I wouldve read this post BEFORE I bought glutamine in bulk.
Originally Posted by jweave23
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