OTC PCT for Epi
- 01-09-2011, 12:03 AM
OTC PCT for Epi
Hey bros, starting a epistane cycle soon at 30mg ed for 6 wks with AI cycle support and Liv 52. Being that I've read that epi is not as harsh on system as other gear, Ive seen lots of forums where people have ran OTC stuff for PCT and did fine. My dilemma is the many different ways people went at it so wanted to see if from what I gathered looked ok to your experiences. My past exp. w/ PCT on a previous 12 wk 350mg test prop cycle was Nolva 30/30/20/20 and Blue Up and did ok but cant get the nolva anymore (it was GP tablets). So this is what I got so far:
Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle support 4 cap/day/4wks
Lean Xtreme 2 cap/day/4wks
Liv 52 2 cap/day/4wks
Here's where my dilemma is as a test booster: Anabolic Xtreme PCT vs. Reversitol?
Dont wanna use 6-oxo as I already got AI in PCS, plus not heard as many good things bout it. From what I read on what people said, sound like they got better recovery from AX PCT as it used to be ATD/Ultra Hotter...what is you guys input/experience on these supps and do you think I'm missing anything else for PCT?
- 01-09-2011, 12:38 AM
With EPI I personally believe an OTC PCT is safe and effective, for my EPI cycle I ran TRS stack by PP for week 1-4 while also running DAA bulk powder for week 1-8, but something similar along the lines of your plans should also be sufficient IMO
However with a cycle of SD Mdrol or something along those lines SERMS are a must, but remember everyone is different and multiple variables are always involved..I'm back from a longggg nap!
- 01-09-2011, 12:39 AM
Its cheaper to get a SERM for pct as opposed to an OTC test booster, which is a huge plus considering something like clomid will also be many times stronger. I used just clomid for my epi pct and strength/weight through the pct were stellar.CELTIC LABS REP
01-09-2011, 12:46 AM
If it doesn't convert to estrogen than post cycle shouldn't be too bad even with nothing.
01-09-2011, 12:49 AM
was thinking clomid, never used it but everyone says they get libido issues...my girl already mad im using a "supp" so if Im not givin her the QT time, theres gonna be issues, lol...
01-09-2011, 12:51 AM
01-10-2011, 06:36 PM
01-10-2011, 07:55 PM
01-11-2011, 12:09 PM
I would run it this way
Weeks 1-4 of pct PCS 2 caps a.m. and 2 caps p.m.
Weeks 3-6 of pct LX as directed
The LIV52 is not really needed if your not running a SERM but it won't hurt to run it either.
01-11-2011, 06:57 PM
01-11-2011, 07:00 PM
01-11-2011, 10:42 PM
EPI is very mild OTC pct is prob ok.
acually i almost noticed nothing from EPI
at 45mg ed for 6 wks.
i would rec sustain alpha during cycle and pct with toco-8 , and HCGenerate as pct.
01-11-2011, 10:47 PM
i strongly suggest you use a serm...
ive seen epi give people gyno
and ive seen people recover without pct.. its not worth risking
HOWEVER... i am now doing a natty DAA stack... and i "feel" like this is good **** for pct
you still need a serm tho.... because you might grow tits and lose all your gains... its cheap google it...
01-11-2011, 10:52 PM
Might want to think about using/adding D aspartic acid. Tcf-1 or test force 2 are probably the 2 best out. I like the idea of using sustain alpha 2days on and 5 days off while on cycle as well.
01-11-2011, 10:55 PM
fail- epi is a steroid not a ph or some raggedy t booster
THIS SH!T IS SERIOUS MAN
01-11-2011, 11:03 PM
did you get bloodwork? of course not
do you what a diet is? not if u got no gains
if you took steroids for 6 weeks and didnt notice anything... you did something wrong.... very very wrong
you probably didnt notice anything because you had a fail diet, fail program, and had a fail pct....... dont reccomend anything to anyone anymore
OP USE A SERM
01-11-2011, 11:12 PM
PP's TRS with a low dosed serm has worked well for me. You are going to get alot of opinions on this, but the majority of the experienced users on here will recommend a serm. Just make sure you run you're support supps. all the way through pct.
01-12-2011, 09:49 AM
The Testosterone Recovery Stack covers PCT: Sustain Alpha Liqua-Vade increases testosterone levels and blocks estrogen (Resveratrol), EndoAmp Max amplifies testosterone and growth hormone, and Toco-8 sensitizes the testes to the effects of LH & FSH. TCF-1 would make a nice addition to the Testosterone Recovery Stack for PCT
Otherwise, for PCT, the bulk of PCT should include each of the following products alongside your basic staples:
* Testosterone Boosters (one product that increase Free Testosterone and Total Testosterone or a stack covering both areas)
* Lutelizing Hormone Releaser
* Cortisol Controller
* Estrogen Antagonists/Aromatase Inhibitor (SERMS are not always a necessity for PCT, and in fact, should only be carefully considered, depending on the compound/s used).
01-12-2011, 10:05 AM
01-12-2011, 10:09 AM
01-12-2011, 10:12 AM
damnit i dont understand why people are saying you dont need a serm for a STEROID
Epi has 4 carbon rings- know what this means? It MEANS ITS AN ANABOLIC STEROID
it is NOT a prohormone, it is fully active, TRS, HCGenerate- these things are good when used in CONJUNCTION with a SERM, see, serms have science PROVING them sto stimulate th HPTA
otc stuff does not- your roll of the dice dude good luck
and i hope(seriously) all of ur man parts function if you go otc cause there is a chance they wont- as epistane is a steroid
im out unsubd
01-12-2011, 10:34 AM
big black guy, have you seen any epi bloodwork?
have you seen epi bloodwork when someone went otc pct?
epi will shut you down, just like any steroid...
the problem is that not enough people get bloodwork, and people seem to be operating under the assumption "if he got away with doing it, ill do the same thing and ill be fine"
and that simply isnt the case, some people recover without ANY PCT
and some people dont recover with hcg/serm/testboosters
the only way to know is by getting bloodwork, and at the very least, being as thorough as possible in pct ( IE. USING A SERM )
this forum is notorious for people getting gyno, and their junk not working, because people reccomend otc pct for steroids... its sad
op if you dont use a serm, you prob also wont get bloods, and you prob will have sides, and you prob. will grow tits...and your **** prob wont work
roll the dice
01-12-2011, 11:33 AM
01-12-2011, 11:52 AM
01-12-2011, 12:05 PM
01-12-2011, 12:15 PM
From the blood tests of Epi I have seen it puts peoples testosterone levels at the 200 range after a cycle.
01-12-2011, 12:24 PM
01-12-2011, 12:24 PM
OP if your dead set against using a SERM and i'm not encouraging you not to. Consider pulsing Epi. There are some people that will tell you that it's a waste but don't listen to them there is a lot of people that love pulsing and it will defintly be easier on your body.
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01-12-2011, 12:28 PM
01-12-2011, 12:34 PM
epi pulses produce less gains (although supposedly more keepable)
the bloodwork on a pulse vs a straight run are almost the same
so it would almost make no sense at all to pulse, if your gunna get shut down just as bad
and epi is a methylated steroid, your gunna hurt your liver whether you pulse it or not
and even if youre gunna pulse, you should still use a serm after
you people really need to start reading before you say sh*t
dont post about something being less harsh, or this otc pct will work if you have no evidence backing it
01-12-2011, 01:00 PM
My opinion is stick to an OTC pct, but include a test booster, estrogen and cort control and your good to go.
By the way, I've used epi on a 5 week pulse with no PCT and kept all my gains.
01-12-2011, 01:51 PM
How to "pulse" orals
Read post #11
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01-12-2011, 01:53 PM
IMO 6 oxo and ATD worked okay for me, but that was for SD, i think 6 oxo would be good for an epi solo cycle, just my 2 cents!
01-12-2011, 03:18 PM
People say Epistane doesn't "aromatize" into estrogen.
That may be true - or maybe not, I think the statement is based on the ORIGINAL Epi drug vice the designer steroid that is marketed now. However, let's stipulate that it doesn't convert to estrogen ...
You could still very well have a big "estrogen rebound" after coming off Epi cause by your own systems attempting to rebalance themselves. And this "rebound" could cause problems.
Now - I have read a lot of these threads about guys using Epi and some get gyno and some don't. Some get by with OTC PCT and some can't. How do you reconcile this?
Well, I reconcile it by concluding that some people are more likely to get gyno than others. I guess some people can stack SDrol with twelve other compounds and come through it barely suppressed after 30 weeks on the stuff - while others get gyno by just looking at the box it comes in. This is hyperboly of course but you can catch the drift.
The bottom line, I think - is what works for you?
I don't know about others - but if I don't know where my physiological response to a compound is going to fall on the "bell curve" - I would want to have maximum protection at hand and be prepared for anything. That's why I'd get a SERM on standby at least.
01-12-2011, 03:33 PM
By the way let me just say that I just finished a short 2-week cycle with Epi as an experiment mostly for my body's tolerance to it. I pulsed it the first week, but ended up going straight on with it the second week.
The "pulse method" ... well there are some "up and downs" with that I found. I didn't find them to be too worrysome but I had to adjust to them. One thing I noticed is that I'd get tingly nips in the evening - but a bit of formestane seemed to kill that off and I'd be good to go until the next evening.
I didn't see this at all when I ran it straight every day. It seems to me that most people "pulse" to minimize shutdown and they also apply other "tricks" to the pulse technique - such as taking half the dosage of Epi right before a morning workout and then the rest of the dosage at some point early in the day so that it clears the system before you go to bed. I did that and maybe there was some "rebounding" going on in the evenings.
Running it straight though - my main goal was just to keep it balanced in my system - so I spread the dosage out during the day without concern. I personally liked this better.
This is not an indictment of the pulse method though - if some people prefer it - I think they should do it. Different people react in different ways - I don't think anyone can tell you what's best for you.
01-12-2011, 03:33 PM
01-12-2011, 03:38 PM
Here it is, if you use a steroid get a SERM, it's not difficult. If there is some crazy reason why you can't obtain a SERM, then I suggest you not use a steroid. If you still feel like doing it, then your best option is to use something like the TRS. Personally I think the TRS is great, however, my view point is it allows you to use a lower dose of a SERM, and have quicker recovery of the HPTA. That's what it boils down to, use a steroid get a SERM, if you can't then don't use steroids.
01-12-2011, 03:48 PM
01-12-2011, 04:26 PM
I don't know whether all of them had bloods - I believe that some did (you're going back a while now).
Yes, the people I know kept their gains - and they even made gains through PCT (and still have those gains). They recovered, and have done cycles since (albeit not Epi).
Anyways, this is not supposed to be an argument - you have your opinion and I have mine - the OP will do what they think is best for them with the information they have been given.
01-12-2011, 06:11 PM
ive read that article... i understand the concept of pulsing orals and how it sounds good.... what makes me say that it is worthless... is BLOODWORK
go over to phf and check out some bloodwork on an epi pulse vs an epi cycle... im not going to waste anymore time disputing this with people...
if you cant get a serm, ask around someone will help