The DAA breakdown?

  1. The DAA breakdown?


    So Ive been trying to do as much reading as I can fit into my schedual (The new job is an internet nazi so my usual work time googles are non existant) regarding DAA..

    I'm about 12 pages deep into "the goal with DAA" thread and I'm seeing NMDA, DAA, sodium/calcium DAA...

    I'd rather be ignorrant in my own thread then someone elses so I'll ask:

    Is there a better version?
    Aside from makeup, are there dosing differences?

    I bought a bottle of Propadrol EP and it was great for about a week (recovery, sleep, sex drive) but it seems to be loosing effect.. I'm concerned about upping the dose because some claim its harmful etc..
    Should I try another form?

    I feel I need a "DAA for dummies" about right now


  2. great stuff!

  3. Have a read of the write-up for E-Pharm TestForce2, it might answer a couple of your questions.
    Most, if not all, of the DAA products are dosed in the ~3g range.
    Here's the human study on DAA, which is also worth a read.
    http://www.rbej.com/content/7/1/120
    Antus Labs rep
    •   
       


  4. I have a TCF-1 on the way (free actually - came with TRS free). It will be my first experience with DAA. I hear great things about it and I'm excited to give it a go.

    How does bulk DAA from NP or Primaforce compare with something like TCF-1 (maybe a rep can chime in)?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by bikeswimlive View Post
    I have a TCF-1 on the way (free actually - came with TRS free). It will be my first experience with DAA. I hear great things about it and I'm excited to give it a go.

    How does bulk DAA from NP or Primaforce compare with something like TCF-1 (maybe a rep can chime in)?
    All products will be DAA. TCF-1 utilizes the same exact dosage and form of DAA that was used in the study (Sodium D-Aspartate). It also happens to taste like candy
    Just inject.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    All products will be DAA. TCF-1 utilizes the same exact dosage and form of DAA that was used in the study (Sodium D-Aspartate). It also happens to taste like candy
    oh my god does it taste good.... seriously

  7. Any latest and greatest on lenghth of DAA cycle? I know for a while people were doing the 12/12 split but has anyone taken tcf-1 for longer than the 12/12? I am not sure what the sides would be if any at all?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Boatcop1 View Post
    Any latest and greatest on lenghth of DAA cycle? I know for a while people were doing the 12/12 split but has anyone taken tcf-1 for longer than the 12/12? I am not sure what the sides would be if any at all?
    With the 12/12 dose, can you cycle year around? Some people say to take it first thing in the morning and some say it gives energy pre workout, witch is better?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by onlyone View Post
    With the 12/12 dose, can you cycle year around? Some people say to take it first thing in the morning and some say it gives energy pre workout, witch is better?
    I don't think dosing time is going to matter with DAA, its results are progressive.

    If you are doing 12/12, you should be good to take it for awhile, but I don't know if I would advise taking anything but the regular supps (multi/creatine/etc.) year round.

    I have run a 24 day cycle. The 12/12 is conservative on what was issued in the study, and what has actually been monitored on humans. With that said, I didn't find any negative effects from the 24 day cycle, but without bloodwork, thats merely a guessing game.
    Just inject.
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  10. Don't **** with DAA. The excitotoxicity scares me and everyone else paying attention. See sig.
    Paging Dr. Banner. . .

  11. Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRoadTo View Post
    Don't **** with DAA. The excitotoxicity scares me and everyone else paying attention. See sig.
    I take it you have found research that verifies that the D isomer of aspartic acid is neurotoxic?

    I have found the L-isoform to be excitatory to a neurotoxic level if supplemented in high amounts but i have come in contant with no studies that indicating the D isomer to activate the proper NMDA recepter (i take it you know there are multiple) in excess amounts to imply that the supplement is neuotoxic. If you have found some I would love to see them. Also know that supplementation with Huperzine A will stave off ANY risk of toxicity though i have found none.

    Also remember DAA is found endogenously so having it present isnt toxic. Just like creatine is present in the system and supplementatin amplifies its effects, such is my understanding with DAA.
    Olympus Labs R&D - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    I take it you have found research that verifies that the D isomer of aspartic acid is neurotoxic?

    I have found the L-isoform to be excitatory to a neurotoxic level if supplemented in high amounts but i have come in contant with no studies that indicating the D isomer to activate the proper NMDA recepter (i take it you know there are multiple) in excess amounts to imply that the supplement is neuotoxic. If you have found some I would love to see them. Also know that supplementation with Huperzine A will stave off ANY risk of toxicity though i have found none.

    Also remember DAA is found endogenously so having it present isnt toxic. Just like creatine is present in the system and supplementatin amplifies its effects, such is my understanding with DAA.
    Dead on response. If you (OnTheRoadTo) have a study showing otherwise, please share.
    Just inject.
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  13. That's nice. But it isn't right. Creatine monohydrate doesn't have any activity at receptors in your brain. Seriously, that's like saying that testosterone in high doses can't have any bad effects because it occurs endogenously. Think a little, man.

    http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ll/141/10/3862

    At any rate, there are DEFINITE risks to DAA supplementation, and let's face it: No one is getting huge off this stuff. I think it may increase LH sensitivity to a degree that is useful in PCT, but I'd feel remiss recommending it to anyone as a staple.
    Paging Dr. Banner. . .

  14. Note that the excitotoxic increase is due to the increase in NMDA, caused by DAA ingestion. I take it that I won't be needing to produce a study to show NMDA is excitotoxic.

    That said, the point about Huperzine is well made! Why isn't someone selling this stacked?

    EDIT: possibly because Huperzine, being a NMDA receptor antagonist, would probably knock out the increased LH, still leaving some (but less!) T-boosting effects from sTAR activity.
    Paging Dr. Banner. . .

  15. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I don't think dosing time is going to matter with DAA, its results are progressive.

    If you are doing 12/12, you should be good to take it for awhile, but I don't know if I would advise taking anything but the regular supps (multi/creatine/etc.) year round.

    I have run a 24 day cycle. The 12/12 is conservative on what was issued in the study, and what has actually been monitored on humans. With that said, I didn't find any negative effects from the 24 day cycle, but without bloodwork, thats merely a guessing game.

    i did blood work after several months of more or less continued use and didnt find anything unusual
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  16. Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRoadTo View Post
    Note that the excitotoxic increase is due to the increase in NMDA, caused by DAA ingestion. I take it that I won't be needing to produce a study to show NMDA is excitotoxic.

    NMDA receptors occur naturally in the brain. NMDA *itself* occurs naturally in the brain. Is it there because the brain wants to kill itself?

    Of course not. Now how about addressing the dose toxicity issue
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  17. in for the edumacation.
    NSCA - CSCS

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    NMDA receptors occur naturally in the brain. NMDA *itself* occurs naturally in the brain. Is it there because the brain wants to kill itself?

    Of course not. Now how about addressing the dose toxicity issue
    I'm not going to sit here and tell you that glutamic excitation is always bad; that would be idiotic. The articles that would let me give a more concrete answer are locked behind a paywall.

    The fact that numerous users report dose dependent anxiety increases tells us a lot.
    Paging Dr. Banner. . .

  19. Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRoadTo View Post
    I
    The fact that numerous users report dose dependent anxiety increases tells us a lot.
    Can that be considered a fact or just one or two situational observations on a few boards? Surely there are many variables that can lead to anxiety.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRoadTo View Post

    The fact that numerous users report dose dependent anxiety increases tells us a lot.
    Yeah and there are about as many others that report dose dependent anxiolytic effects. And even more that report no subjective mental effects at all

    You are gonna have to do better than cherry picked anecdotes
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  21. Quote Originally Posted by bikeswimlive View Post
    Can that be considered a fact or just one or two situational observations on a few boards? Surely there are many variable that can lead to anxiety.
    His was a classic case of "confirmation bias"
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  22. Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRoadTo View Post
    That's nice. But it isn't right. Creatine monohydrate doesn't have any activity at receptors in your brain. Seriously, that's like saying that testosterone in high doses can't have any bad effects because it occurs endogenously. Think a little, man.

    http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ll/141/10/3862

    At any rate, there are DEFINITE risks to DAA supplementation, and let's face it: No one is getting huge off this stuff. I think it may increase LH sensitivity to a degree that is useful in PCT, but I'd feel remiss recommending it to anyone as a staple.

    Forgive me if I didnt elaborate the point of my example. If you read properly I said the simple presence is not toxic. I did not state the amount or how it works or if creatine had receptors in the brain, therefore the example of creatine would be accurate if you take it at the level to which I presented it. Testosterone over supplementation leads to shutdown of the HPTA....it's presences isnt toxic but over supplementation can have adverse effetcs. I also did not mean to make a direct correlation between creatine and DAA. Only a parrallel one can find that the mere presence of both is not toxic. Do not take it further then that please. You misread my intentions and rational.

    As for the article you posted, I assume you understand that the increase in concentrations occured primarily in the anterior pituatary(adenohypophysis) and the hypothalumus and hippocampus. The pituatary and hypothalumus are the intrinsic starts of the HPTA axis and testosterone production. Any worth while testbooster will have an effect on these areas.

    Also the study does not state ANYTHING....I repreat....ANYTHING about neurotoxicity. It states that DAA may be a precurser to NMDA but not that it causes over excitation which leads to cell death. If this is the article to which you base your theory, you are adding your personal opinion without a scientific basis.

    Also note they did a previous study which they measured LH levels and they still did not note any toxic effects.


    Actually you do..increase concentration of a given substrate and to cause excitotoxic effects are very different animals. This aritcle supports DAA works. It supports it increae NMDA concentrations with no adverse side effects. It supports that it increase prolactin in rats. It does not support your theory that DAA is excitotoxic. Do you ever take B vitamins? SOme cross the BBB and excite receptors in the brain. By your rationale certain B vitamins are excitotoxic

    Again please supple a study which states that this supplement causes an over excitation of the proper NMDA receptors that will lead to cell death. Remember there are means to which NMDA and other compounds are cleared. They just dont sit there. They will be cleared but if there is an increase in concentration it will increase the effects which DOES NOT imply excitotoxic effects.
    Olympus Labs R&D - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  23. I personally didnt notice a rise in anxiety while supplementing DAA....only a rise in aggression which can be correlated to an increase in testosterone.

    I dosed at 6 grams and actually felt better then 3 grams. Before now I havent heard about a rise in anxiety.
    Olympus Labs R&D - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  24. Just my 2 cents to add...I just got done using TestForce for 2 months straight. I did not experience any anxiety issues.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    I personally didnt notice a rise in anxiety while supplementing DAA....only a rise in aggression which can be correlated to an increase in testosterone.

    I dosed at 6 grams and actually felt better then 3 grams. Before now I havent heard about a rise in anxiety.
    Did you split the doses in 2 or all in ones? also when did you find was the best time to take it?

  26. Quote Originally Posted by onlyone View Post
    Did you split the doses in 2 or all in ones? also when did you find was the best time to take it?

    I split my doses into two 3 gram servings. 1 upon waking and 1 pre-lift. Days I would workout in the morning it would be 1 pre-workout and one 6-8 hours later. Non-lift days would be upone waking and then another dose 6-8 hours later.

    I believe Patrick Arnold is far more well versed in DAA and I would be interested in seeing how he doses.
    Olympus Labs R&D - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    I split my doses into two 3 gram servings. 1 upon waking and 1 pre-lift. Days I would workout in the morning it would be 1 pre-workout and one 6-8 hours later. Non-lift days would be upone waking and then another dose 6-8 hours later.

    I believe Patrick Arnold is far more well versed in DAA and I would be interested in seeing how he doses.
    Cool, thanks. I workout 2 times a day so I might try to dose pre workout.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    I split my doses into two 3 gram servings. 1 upon waking and 1 pre-lift. Days I would workout in the morning it would be 1 pre-workout and one 6-8 hours later. Non-lift days would be upone waking and then another dose 6-8 hours later.

    I believe Patrick Arnold is far more well versed in DAA and I would be interested in seeing how he doses.

    i split it up like that. because larger doses at one time sometimes causes a little GI distress
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i split it up like that. because larger doses at one time sometimes causes a little GI distress
    Especially the morning after a night of drinking.
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  30. Seeing PA and dsade in two back to back posts gives me an idea to run protocol and testforce 2 simultaneously. Take 1 dose of testforce pre lift, 1 dose protocol post lift. Then 1 dose of each with lunch. Add in Testopro and Stoked and I have myself a nice little stack which hits natural T-boosting from quiete a few different angle seeing that each one works very differently.
    Olympus Labs R&D - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  31. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Especially the morning after a night of drinking.

    i meant the distress that is relieved by sitting on a toilet. not bent over a toilet
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  32. Here is my experience, I used tcf-1 personally. I dosed as recommended on the bottle. First time was 12 on 12 off 12 on, second time was 36 days straight. No side effects noted either time, results were honestly the same for both runs. Increased libido, slight strength increase, recovery was improved, mood was improved, about an hour after dosing I noticed a nice clean drive in the gym, definitely not anxiety just a clean boost so to speak. Everyone responds differently to every substance, having said that from what I have read on the boards and of the studies done, anxiety is definitely an exception rather than a rule. Just my thoughts on the subject.

  33. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i meant the distress that is relieved by sitting on a toilet. not bent over a toilet
    Depending on what you eat before you go to bed, usually bad mexican for a lot of people, you will find yourself sitting on the toilet. Also as an off topic point, I am jealous of the PA initials, when you write my initials it just makes me a HO, goddamn.

  34. That is good to hear. Cheers for free TCF-1! I think I am going to dose according to the study and go 12 consecutive days on, 12 off.

  35. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i meant the distress that is relieved by sitting on a toilet. not bent over a toilet
    Rofl

    So... 12/12 or 24?? Would DAA and erase be a good stack?


  36. Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    Rofl

    So... 12/12 or 24?? Would DAA and erase be a good stack?
    A lot of people have used daa and anti e products with good results, I'm sure erase would go well, personally I have done tcf-1 and sustain alpha with great results.

  37. Just ordered some erase... Maybe I'll try this stack next time thanks brotha' !


  38. Its good to start seeing tcf-1 included in the trs from primordial performance. From everything ive heard, im goin the whole bottle of tcf (24 days).

  39. Quote Originally Posted by rulk22 View Post
    Its good to start seeing tcf-1 included in the trs from primordial performance. From everything ive heard, im goin the whole bottle of tcf (24 days).
    I did mine 12 on 12 off 12 on for my pct, the 12 on was the last 12 days of my dermacrine and androhard cycle, started my pct, then 12 days into pct started tcf-1 back up but ran for 36 days. Great pct and continued to roll my training.
  

  
 

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