AP and Arginine - AnabolicMinds.com

AP and Arginine

  1. Advanced Member
    bi0hazurd's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    619
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    370

    Question AP and Arginine


    I'm currently taking Anabolic Pump and it says not to take an insulin mimiker with it because it makes ur body require less insulin (I can't remember how) but I've heard that taking Arginine akg spikes insulin levels and I'm not sure if the two will clash.

  2. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,966
    Answers
    6
    Rep Power
    917951

    AAKG will not impact insulin.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  3. Advanced Member
    bi0hazurd's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    619
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    370

    Ok thanks. But for future explination I've heard that Arginine is no longer beleived to raise N.O in the body it was explained to me that it spikes insulin which then triggers N.O

    •   
       

  4. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,966
    Answers
    6
    Rep Power
    917951

    Quote Originally Posted by bi0hazurd View Post
    Ok thanks. But for future explination I've heard that Arginine is no longer beleived to raise N.O in the body it was explained to me that it spikes insulin which then triggers N.O
    Arginine has some uses, but it's efficacy is very overstated. NO is a very complicated process that takes many enzymes and many reactions. To say one hormone and/or supplement is the catalyst is absurd.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  5. Advanced Member
    bi0hazurd's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    619
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    370

    I'm real unsure as to what the process he explained was but I just wanna kno if it will interfere at all with my AP cuz I really love the stuff

  6. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,966
    Answers
    6
    Rep Power
    917951

    Quote Originally Posted by bi0hazurd View Post
    I'm real unsure as to what the process he explained was but I just wanna kno if it will interfere at all with my AP cuz I really love the stuff
    I highly doubt that it will.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  7. New Member
    lartinos's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    222
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    7160

    Alot of hype behind these NO boosters. More "feel" then results I suspect..

  8. Advanced Member
    bi0hazurd's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    619
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    370

    Oh I kno about the NO hype I dropped all preworkouts after a while I like the arginines vascularity tho and recently I picked up pre-surge cuz it was given to me and I like it.

  9. New Member
    Aviad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    111
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    717

    Also, Anabolic Pump works independent from insulin. Allowing the body to produce less as a result of supplementation of AP. Most insulin managing products base their formulas that work in correlation with insulin, possibly causing issues with the way insulin is secreted or utilized by the body.

    Arginine as a stand alone is questionable as I see it, you may notice more benefit from a product that combines arginine with other ingredients that compliment its availability.

  10. Advanced Member
    bi0hazurd's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    619
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    370

    But I'm a little unclear now again because u called it questionable. Will arginine as a stand alone affect my AP?

  11. New Member
    Aviad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    111
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    717

    In my opinion no, feel free to consume both without issue.

  12. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,966
    Answers
    6
    Rep Power
    917951

    Quote Originally Posted by bi0hazurd View Post
    But I'm a little unclear now again because u called it questionable. Will arginine as a stand alone affect my AP?
    You have a very bad quality to always second-guess and overanalyze every minor detail about everything. In all reality, it is a waste of time because you're not focusing on the two main things: diet and lifting weights. Focus much, much more on those before you start to question the intricacies of every supplement.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  13. Advanced Member
    bi0hazurd's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    619
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    370

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You have a very bad quality to always second-guess and overanalyze every minor detail about everything. In all reality, it is a waste of time because you're not focusing on the two main things: diet and lifting weights. Focus much, much more on those before you start to question the intricacies of every supplement.
    I thank u for ur help but I don't think u have any right to judge my qualities and wether or not they are bad. And I do focus on my diet and lifting

  14. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,966
    Answers
    6
    Rep Power
    917951

    Quote Originally Posted by bi0hazurd View Post
    I thank u for ur help but I don't think u have any right to judge my qualities and wether or not they are bad. And I do focus on my diet and lifting
    You make constant threads regarding very small things about a training program. While it is good to be critical and to analyze every aspect of your training, to constantly get hung up on one very small thing such as the interaction between arginine and AP. When you try to micromanage these elements, you inevitably waste time or procrastinate. I know that you're young, but the sooner you realize that everything takes time, the better off you'll be.

    I myself wasted a good deal of time constantly thinking that I was just 1 miracle supplement away from achieving my goal, but, looking back on everything, I realize that I should have just been more meticulous about my training and diet.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  15. Senior Member
    saggy321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,363
    Answers
    1
    Rep Power
    97232

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You make constant threads regarding very small things about a training program. While it is good to be critical and to analyze every aspect of your training, to constantly get hung up on one very small thing such as the interaction between arginine and AP. When you try to micromanage these elements, you inevitably waste time or procrastinate. I know that you're young, but the sooner you realize that everything takes time, the better off you'll be.

    I myself wasted a good deal of time constantly thinking that I was just 1 miracle supplement away from achieving my goal, but, looking back on everything, I realize that I should have just been more meticulous about my training and diet.
    So...so...true!! I always thought there some miralce fat loss pill out there. Then slowly, painfully and very expensively I realised you need to only sort out your diet and training, but stick to it consistently and above all it take a long time!!

  16. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,966
    Answers
    6
    Rep Power
    917951

    M.Ed. Ex Phys

  17. Board Supporter
    wastedwhiteboy2's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,987
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    3011

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviad View Post
    Also, Anabolic Pump works independent from insulin. Allowing the body to produce less as a result of supplementation of AP. Most insulin managing products base their formulas that work in correlation with insulin, possibly causing issues with the way insulin is secreted or utilized by the body.

    Arginine as a stand alone is questionable as I see it, you may notice more benefit from a product that combines arginine with other ingredients that compliment its availability.
    I've wondered about some insulin managing products that base their formulas off working with insulin. So you think AP might be better than others due to it actually increasing insulin sensitivity instead of decreasing it like some others might? Could you go into this more?

  18. New Member
    Aviad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    111
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    717

    Of course…

    I will use the Anabolic Pump vs R lipoic acid scenario. Although I am not promoting or negating the positive effects of either product, I am simply illustrating the contrast in the two and how they perform in specific scenarios.

    Anabolic Pump increases GLUT-4, a glucose disposing transport protein, resulting in less insulin being secreted via the pancreas. Anabolic pump does not require insulin, as is the case with R Lipic acid, which may directly influence insulin levels to some degree.

    I think it is important to clarify the stimulus of Glut 4 activation as it pertains to Anabolic Pump and R Lipoic. Glut- 4 can be prompted by exercise, insulin as in the case of R Lipoic acid, or the compounds in Anabolic Pump. Now, Anabolic Pump does not require exercise or insulin to stimulate Glut- 4. R lipoic, requires the activation of insulin receptors to set in motion Glut-4 activity. Once more, the independence of Anabolic Pump to insulin makes it a superior choice in disposing glucose in my opinion.

    Anabolic Pump has a half life of 4-6 hours, this combined with the typical AP dosing, may sustain a constant activation of Glut-4 activity. In the case of R Lipoic acid where insulin initiates Glut-4 activity, the response is shorter and requires a rapid disposing of the glucose/carbohydrate consumed decreasing the window of Glut-4 activation. Naturally, both scenarios are with the understanding of a moderate amount of carbohydrate consumed throughout the day.

    Since Anabolic pump aggressively disposes glucose into muscle cells, this may also eliminate the occurrence of hyperglycemic effects. In contrast, R Lipoic Acid requires insulin, so the benefit of decreased insulin secretion and the possibility of avoiding the abovementioned effects are lost.

    In addition, the preferential disposal of glucose into to skeletal muscles and away from adiopose sites is a benefit that insulin dependent glucose disposal agents cannot contest.

    Finally, since Anabolic Pump does not require insulin, the user is encouraged to place focus on complex carbohydrates to fill glycogen stores. In contract, some R Lipoic, insulin dependent glucose disposal product users may rely on simple carbohydrates, possibly unhealthy in some cases, to elicit the same response as Anabolic Pump.

    This is my interpretation of the two approaches, is this what you were referring to?


  19. Board Supporter
    wastedwhiteboy2's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,987
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    3011

    Yes that explains it well. Thanks.

  20. Never enough
    Board Moderator
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    768794

    Quote Originally Posted by bi0hazurd View Post
    But I'm a little unclear now again because u called it questionable. Will arginine as a stand alone affect my AP?
    What Aviad stated has it covered, most glucose disposal agents are aimed at increasing GLUT-4 usage of carbs. Something that causes an insulin spike will still cause that insulin spike, it may just be somewhat lower, but your body is also made more sensitive to the insulin spike (as its producing less insulin the rest of the time)
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far

  21. Senior Member
    kingdong's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    2,849
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    8205

    Ive actually heard that AAKG was found to produce insulin instead of NO. That's where the pump comes from.

  22. Elite Member
    criticalbench's Avatar
    Stats
    5'1"  0 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    7,829
    Answers
    0
    Rep Power
    767474

    For bodybuilding purposes, AP and Arginine are not going to interact and cause you problems.

    If you work in the health field, it might make a good research topic.

    Mike

  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Arginine, Agmatine and L-Arginine AKG
    By Hawk in forum Supplements
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 01-07-2012, 01:24 AM
  2. Arginine akg
    By zombiemuscle in forum Supplements
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-02-2010, 09:06 AM
  3. Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate or Arginine ethyl ester
    By corsaking in forum Supplement Logs
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-14-2009, 04:05 AM
  4. L-arginine
    By Broly in forum Supplements
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-17-2009, 08:01 AM
  5. di arginine malate vs. arginine akg
    By biggun2181 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-01-2005, 04:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in