Dosing 11-sterone for Fat Loss/Cutting

fatburner2007

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I weigh 205lbs and am trying to determine the optimal dosage for my upcoming cutting/fat loss cycle of running 11-sterone solo.

I have looked into this and the feedback seems to be mixed of whether to go with 4 caps for 8 weeks or 6-7 caps for 6 weeks.

For PCT, I am planning on using Reversitol v2 along with Activate Extreme. Then on day 14 of PCT, start either Suppress-C or Lean Extreme.

Any and all suggestions appreciated.
 

warsteiner

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If you are interested in cutting the 3-4 caps for 8 weeks will be best. At higher does (6+ per day) then it is better used for lean bulking.

For PCT you will only need Reversitol or Activate Extreme rather than both as 11-sterone is not very suppressive.

I would suggest 3-4 caps 11-sterone for 8 weeks and then 8 weeks Activate Extreme + Lean Extreme. Activate/Lean Extreme are a good stack to build a bit of muscle while leaning out so with a good diet you could lose some fat on the 11-sterone and then lean out a bit more and add some muscle with the Activate/Lean Extreme.
 
MAxximal

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I weigh 205lbs and am trying to determine the optimal dosage for my upcoming cutting/fat loss cycle of running 11-sterone solo.

I have looked into this and the feedback seems to be mixed of whether to go with 4 caps for 8 weeks or 6-7 caps for 6 weeks.

For PCT, I am planning on using Reversitol v2 along with Activate Extreme. Then on day 14 of PCT, start either Suppress-C or Lean Extreme.

Any and all suggestions appreciated.

Follow the label (for cortisol supresion 3 caps per day) but in my opinion go with Lean Extreme (regulate cortisol naturally) + Alpha-T2

if you use 11-sterone in this way NO NEED PCT.

:bigok:
 
fatburner2007

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Thanks, but not interested in products like Alpha-T2.


Follow the label (for cortisol supresion 3 caps per day) but in my opinion go with Lean Extreme (regulate cortisol naturally) + Alpha-T2

if you use 11-sterone in this way NO NEED PCT.

:bigok:
 
MAxximal

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Not familiar with Alpha-T2, but looked it up and seems like a fat burner, not really comparable to 11-sterone?
I don`t think 11-Sterone is for Cortisol and Alpha-T2 is for Destroy the Fat no mattrer what.

Alpha-T2 + Recreate
Alpha-T2+ Lean Xtreme
Alpha-T2 + OEP

You can`t go wrong!
 
fatburner2007

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Not sure what you mean; 11-Sterone is for Cortisol Suppression and for lean bulking at higher dosages.



I don`t think 11-Sterone is for Cortisol and Alpha-T2 is for Destroy the Fat no mattrer what.

Alpha-T2 + Recreate
Alpha-T2+ Lean Xtreme
Alpha-T2 + OEP

You can`t go wrong!
 
MAxximal

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What is 11-OXO?

11-OXO is the trademark name for adrenosterone. Adrenosterone is an adrenal androgen. Adrenal androgen means it is a hormone produced by the adrenal gland that is in the same general hormonal class as testosterone (another example of an adrenal androgen is DHEA).

Adrenosterone is released by the adrenal gland in conjunction with other stress hormones, primarily cortisol and cortisone. The exact function of adrenosterone has never been fully understood, however recent research seems to indicate that it serves to modulate the actions of cortisol in the body.

Cortisol is a vital hormone made by the adrenal gland and it is considered a stress hormone. When your body is stressed it seeks to quickly liberate energy stores and cortisol assists this by stimulating the breakdown of muscle protein to amino acids and stored triglycerides (fat) to free fatty acids. It also instructs the liver to up-regulate its systems for processing these fuels - the gluconeogenesis pathway for amino acids and the beta-oxidation pathway for fats.

The catabolic consequences of elevated cortisol on muscle tissue is pretty clear-cut and well understood by most bodybuilders. The effects of cortisol on body fat content and distribution, and on vital metabolic pathways in the liver however are not. Even less understood are the tissue specific controls that activate and deactivate cortisol on a local level throughout the body. I am talking about enzymes located at places like the liver, visceral fat, brain, vascular tissue, and (yes) skeletal muscle that serve to control whether cortisol is activated or deactivated within these tissues themselves. It is these enzyme systems that scientists are now recognizing as perhaps the most significant metabolic aspect of cortisol in regards to body composition, heart disease, diabetes, and other maladies that together have come to be known as Syndrome X. And most importantly, it is this localized enzyme system that holds spectacular medical promise as a pharmacological target to greatly improve health and physical fitness

Fat and cortisol

I mentioned how cortisol release liberates fat for use as energy. Upon hearing me say that you probably thought to yourself that cortisol must have an overall effect in the body of reducing body fat. That is not the case however. Cortisol affects fat metabolism and storage in the body in a multitude of ways. To best achieve an overall understanding of cortisol’s effect on body fat we should keep mind of cortisol's overall purpose in the body, which is to help your body respond to stress. Cortisol controls both immediate and long-term adaptations to stress within the body. Of course the immediate effects on body fat are the release of energy in the form of fatty acids, but cortisol also goes to work on setting the stage within your body so that it will have an ample resource of the most easily accessible body fat stores to draw upon in the future.

What I mean by the most easily accessible body fat in the body is the kind of body fat that cortisol can most readily tap into when urgent fatty acid energy is needed. I am talking here primarily about visceral fat. Visceral fat has a direct root to the liver via the portal system so it is perfectly positioned to provide a quick supply of fatty acid fuel for immediate processing. Simply put, this is the fat located around your internal organs. It is the fat that gives you the potbelly look and it is also the fat that is most closely associated with health risks such as heart disease, diabetes, and perhaps even cancer. For me personally, as it is for many adult males, visceral fat is a constant source of disgust against which I fight a constant battle.

What cortisol does in the body over time is switch the distribution of fat away from the more stubborn areas (such as the subcutaneous fat in the extremities) to the more highly cortisol sensitive areas of the body. These areas include the viscera as I mentioned already but also include oddball areas such as the upper back and face. The classical phenotype (physical appearance) of the individual suffering from cortisol excess is the pot belly, buffalo hump, and moon face. Not a pretty sight I know.

Cortisol and the liver

Ok now what about the effects of cortisol upon liver. If you are a hopeless muscle head you may be asking why should I give a damn about my liver? Well I will explain to you why, and you will see that for several reasons the negative effects of cortisol on the liver can have a profound impact upon your ability to build muscle. The liver is the number one target of cortisol in the body and it is also the number one area where it is metabolized. Cortisol has a ton of actions in the liver but to make this short and sweet I will stick to the ones that are most relevant to bodybuilders.

First of all, cortisol affects carbohydrate metabolism. It lowers insulin sensitivity and switches on the pathways of gluconeogenesis. Gluconeogenesis is the formation of glucose from non-carbohydrate precursors, primarily amino acids. What this means is that it turns your liver into an amino acid devouring machine, turning amino acids that your muscles need to grow into sugar - sugar that will probably mostly end up later being made into fat. Cortisol also negatively influences the levels of IGF-1 in the body by a few mechanisms, most notably by decreasing the IGF-1 production response to growth hormone and increasing the production of the deactivating factor IGF-1 binding protein-1. Furthermore, cortisol down regulates the T3-deiodinase enzyme in the liver resulting in a lowering of thyroid hormone activity. Look, I can go on and on about cortisol's terrible influence on the liver but I am getting as bored with the liver as you probably are right now so I want to move on. I think you get the point

Goes on and on

Before I go on to the important part of the story here let me just wrap up the background with some mention of other tissues of relevance to the physique enthusiast. Vascular tissue suffers from excess cortisol by becoming more sensitive to hormones, which influence constriction (i.e. adrenaline, angiotensin II). Furthermore, cortisol inhibits vasodilation by decreasing the biosynthesis of nitric oxide and prostaglandin 1 as well as attenuating the actions of atrial naturietic peptide. This can result in elevated blood pressure (hypertension) and a decreased vasodilatory response to exercise (in english that translates to a decrease in the ability to get a good pump). As for the brain, it is not immune from cortisol's ravages either. Cortisol reduces the release of LH, GH, and TSH from the pituitary resulting in reductions in circulating levels of the anabolic hormones testosterone, IGF-1, and triidothyronine (T3). The testosterone producing leydig cells of the testicles also are directly adversely affected by cortisol so along with the LH suppression you get a double whammy against testosterone. Last but not least are the muscles themselves which I don't have to elaborate on. You already know that cortisol breaks down muscle protein into amino acids that then get converted to glucose for energy and fat production.

11HSD1R is the target

So now onto the main point. All of these parts of the body that are influenced by cortisol action contain the enzymes I mentioned earlier that control the local concentration of this dastardly hormone. Which means all these tissues are targets for enzyme blockers that will protect them from all of this. And that is what this is all about. It is not just theory either; the practical solutions are actually presently attainable. Now lets talk about the enzymes themselves without getting too bogged down in laborious technicalities (I hope).

Cortisol belongs to a group of hormones collectively known as glucocorticoids. Glucocorticoids are steroid hormones just like testosterone, progesterone, and estrogens are. The hallmark of an active glucocorticoid molecule is a part of the steroid structure known as the 11beta hydroxyl group. This chemical group is essential for the activity of cortisol or any other glucocorticoid. In the body, this 11beta hydroxyl group is constantly being converted into what is known as an 11-keto (or 11-oxo) group and then back again into the 11beta hydroxyl. This is what is known as an equilibrium reaction. Anyway, 11-keto's are inactive glucocorticoids and the 11-keto version of cortisol is known as cortisone.

So to summarize so far, cortisol is active and cortisone is inactive. Cortisol is an 11beta-hydroxyl and cortisone is an 11-keto.

In the blood, there is more cortisone than cortisol. So if these target tissues (fat, liver, muscle etc) want a decent shot of cortisol they have to convert some of that cortisone into cortisol themselves. And they do this with an enzyme known as 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type1 reductase (11HSD1R for short). In recent years a tremendous amount of research has been directed towards this enzyme and its vital role in the body. It has been recognized as a metabolic regulatory mechanism of huge significance for some of our societies most widespread and insidious health threats - cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and obesity just to name a few.

The great thing about the discovery of this enzyme and the fact that its activity can be influenced is that it offers us a method of controlling the negative actions of cortisol on the body without blocking cortisol's vital functions necessary for life. It is important to remember that although excess cortisol is undesirable, maintaining a crucial minimal supply of this hormone is essential to our health. Eliminating it or reducing it inappropriately can result in severe health consequences. In fact, this is what has been the problem with cortisol suppression approaches of the past. Non-specific approaches that reduce cortisol production (aminoglutethimide, trilostane) or cortisol receptor binding (mifepristone) basically throw the baby out with the bath water. They eliminate the problems of cortisol excess all right but in exchange they present the patient with a new set of problems - problems associated with cortisol deficiency such as weakness, loss of weight, low blood pressure, and gastrointestinal disturbances.

So what are the ways of blocking this enzyme? First of all you must be aware that there are other cortisol metabolism enzymes closely related to 11HSD1R such as 11-beta hydroxysteroid type1 dehydrogenase and 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase typeII. You do NOT want to block these enzymes - the former will increase cortisol levels in target tissues while the latter will cause your kidneys to go nuts and raise your blood pressure through the roof. So you need a selective inhibitor. This is not easy. There are lots of non-selective inhibitors around but few selective ones.

Endogenous Inhibitors

Interestingly enough, some hormones our body make naturally are quite good selective inhibitors of 11HSD1R. Most notable are GH and IGF-1, and it is no surprise that the body recomposition powers of these hormones are not in small part due to their effect on 11HSD1R. But there are other endogenous hormone inhibitors of this enzyme, many of which are made by the same gland which makes cortisol itself and which possess many of the same key chemical structural characteristics while lacking cortisol's activity. It is these hormones that I find most fascinating and which have the potential for use by the average bodybuilder (without a prescription.) You see, in addition to cortisol, cortisone, and other similar glucocorticoids, the adrenal gland produces a strange series of steroid hormones that also possess 11beta-hydroxyl and 11-keto chemical functional groups. These include progesterone type hormones like 11-ketoprogesterone and androstene type hormones such as adrenosterone. Adrenosterone in my opinion holds the most promise for athletes a safe, effective, and selective cortisol modulating performance enhancing and body recompositioning agent and is the compound found in 11-OXO

How 11-OXO works to inhibit 11HSD1R is actually pretty straightforward. 11-OXO simply occupies the enzyme, preventing cortisone from accessing it. This is known as competitive inhibition. If cortisone cannot access 11HSD1R then it won't have the opportunity to be converted to cortisol at the target tissue. The 11HSD1R enzyme acts the same way on 11-OXO as it does on cortisone, that is it reduces the 11-keto functional group to an 11beta-hydroxyl functional group - only in this case it is converting 11-OXO into another hormone known as 11beta-hydroxyandrostenedione.

11-OXO competitive inhibition of 11b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type I reductase (11beta-HSD1)

Controlling cortisol via 11HSD1R is still a new frontier but it is an area of health and physique enhancement that I feel has enormous potential and just might prove to be a godsend for a lot of health conscious individuals. For bodybuilders in particular I feel that in conjunction with other biochemical manipulations (supplements, steroids, etc.) this approach may provide an amplification of effects that are pronounced and impressive. But in my opinion all that pales in comparison to what we may see in regards to overall health, vitality, and life extension benefits. We have a real possible win-win situation here, as what we are talking about is a way to build muscle and lose fat, while extending life and overall health at the same time.

Totally natural hormone
Adrenosterone is found in the blood of both men and women. For men it is present in the blood at a concentration about 1/10 that of testosterone, and in women it is actually present in amounts roughly 33% greater than men.

In most species including humans it is produced in the adrenal gland under the influence of adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH). However in many fish, including salmon, tilapia, eel, trout, bass, and others it is produced in the testes along with 11-oxotestosterone (which is actually the major androgen in many fish)

*It is important to mention that being a precursor to the active androgen 11-oxotestosterone, exceeding the recommend dose and duration of use may result in increased risk of androgenic side effects and HPTA suppression. This suppression while minimal at the recommended dosage, can temporarily effect fertility and sex hormone production at higher dosages. This directed use of this product is specifically designed to selectively provide cortisol modulation while minimizing sex hormone activity. Please do not exceed recommended dosage. This product is to be used by males only.
 
MAxximal

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Cutting with Adrenosterone

The "cut" application seems to be where adrenosterone use is favored the most. So here are some of the expectancies...
You will build muscle on adrenosterone, even in a cut(this is diet prohibitive of course). By this statement, I am referring to adrenosterone's ability to inhibit cortisol(which will cause protein breakdown) and to mimic testosterone.
You can "cut" with adrenosterone, transdermally/orally in low doses, and not need a PCT. Remember, adrenosterone is an endogenous hormone, and I have yet to see any data that suggests that exogenous supplementation will "shutdown" your natural production of adrenosterone. Although, supplementation of higher doses will "shutdown" your natural production of testosterone.
If you are stacking adrenosterone for it's cutting effects, the same rules should apply to its physical actions as if it run standalone.
 
fatburner2007

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Thanks for the feedback.


If you are interested in cutting the 3-4 caps for 8 weeks will be best. At higher does (6+ per day) then it is better used for lean bulking.

For PCT you will only need Reversitol or Activate Extreme rather than both as 11-sterone is not very suppressive.

I would suggest 3-4 caps 11-sterone for 8 weeks and then 8 weeks Activate Extreme + Lean Extreme. Activate/Lean Extreme are a good stack to build a bit of muscle while leaning out so with a good diet you could lose some fat on the 11-sterone and then lean out a bit more and add some muscle with the Activate/Lean Extreme.
 
fatburner2007

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Suggestions on 4 caps for 8 weeks or 6-7 caps for 6 weeks?
 

warsteiner

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Suggestions on 4 caps for 8 weeks or 6-7 caps for 6 weeks?
I would say that you are in between the two 'best' doses there. If you have a look on bb.com there are some old, and very long, threads (search 11-oxo) regarding the substance. Most people found 225-300mg was good for cutting. When lean bulking most people started out using 450mg but then upped it to 600mg or so and then that was when the results started to kick-in. Lengths of cycles were normally at least 8 weeks so I am not too sure whether you would get a lot from 6 caps for 6 weeks.

Ideally (check the threads on bb.com on this in case I am wrong) it would be 225-300mg (3-4 caps) per day for 8 weeks for a cut or anywhere between 450-600mg (6-8 caps) per day for 8 weeks for a lean bulk. This is a fairly weak substance so takes time to kick-in.

If you haven't got enough bottles/money for 6-8 caps for 8 weeks then I would say go for the cut (3-4 caps for 8 weeks) otherwise you will be in the middle of both options and may not get reasonable results for the amount of money that you have spent.
 

narraboth

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I am using CEL 11-sterone, I found even 3 caps in the morning make me tired and sleepy 2 hours earlier at night time (eg. I went to bed at 12, but now I feel sleepy at 10). It happened many times so I am kind of sure it's because of 11-sterone.

when I use Androxtreme-D I don't have this problem. I haven't tried original 11-oxo though. I also tried transdermal 11-oxo but due to low solubility I can't have enough dosage everyday.
 
fatburner2007

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How are you timing your dosages?

I am thinking of doing 7 per day so 3 breakfast, 2 with lunch and 2 with dinner. Recall it absorbs best if taken with some amount of fat.

I am using CEL 11-sterone, I found even 3 caps in the morning make me tired and sleepy 2 hours earlier at night time (eg. I went to bed at 12, but now I feel sleepy at 10). It happened many times so I am kind of sure it's because of 11-sterone.

when I use Androxtreme-D I don't have this problem. I haven't tried original 11-oxo though. I also tried transdermal 11-oxo but due to low solubility I can't have enough dosage everyday.
 

narraboth

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I was thinking doing 375mg per day first.
I have tried 5 caps all together in the morning, or 3 morning 2 noon. Some people say that it will interfere sleep pattern, so I avoid having it at night time.
After I found its influence of tiredness, i ever more dare not to use it late.

Androxtreme D bottle says "As a dietary supplement take 2-3 capsules EXACLTY ONCE per day."
don't know what's the reason.
 
fatburner2007

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Believe it is best if you spread out the dosages to some degree.

I am planning the following:

11-sterone -
7 caps per day for 6 weeks
3 with breakfast, 2 with lunch and 2 with dinner

Activate Extreme -
Start on first day of PCT
3 caps per day

Lean Xtreme -
Start on day 14 of PCT
1 cap before breakfast, 1 cap 4 hours later, and 1 cap before bedtime.


I was thinking doing 375mg per day first.
I have tried 5 caps all together in the morning, and 3 morning 2 noon. Some people say that it will interfere sleep pattern, so I avoid having it at night time.
After I found its influence of tiredness, i ever more dare not to use it late.
 
fatburner2007

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Interested in feedback from others who have used the 7 caps per day for 6 weeks
dosage and how have you timed the dosages; 3 with breakfast, 2 with lunch and 2 with dinner?
 
schwellington

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this was my cut

epistane at 50 mgs for five weeks

11-sterone at 450/650/750/0/0

I would not even use 11 sterone in a lean bulk
it is one of the only anabolics that I know of that is used primarily in fat loss/muscle preservation cycles

It is an anabolic hormone WITH cortisol suppresion traits


I think you would be better off doing a 6 week cycle of 11 sterone dosed high with maybe 30-40 mgs of epistane
 
fatburner2007

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Thanks, but not interested in epistane.

Looking at 11-sterone at 525, 525, 525, 525, 525, 525.

Then follow it with Activate Extreme and then on Day 14, start Lean Extreme.

Total fat loss/leaning; not interested in any bulking.




this was my cut

epistane at 50 mgs for five weeks

11-sterone at 450/650/750/0/0

I would not even use 11 sterone in a lean bulk
it is one of the only anabolics that I know of that is used primarily in fat loss/muscle preservation cycles

It is an anabolic hormone WITH cortisol suppresion traits


I think you would be better off doing a 6 week cycle of 11 sterone dosed high with maybe 30-40 mgs of epistane
 

narraboth

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well, i have to say i didn't see difference when using 11 oxo solo in short period.
epistane is a totally different compound; I actually felt it within two days.
 
fatburner2007

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Yeah, exactly so. They are two different kind of compounds with 2 totally different intents. As for 11oxo, you will never "feel it".

How long were you running 11oxo?


well, i have to say i didn't see difference when using 11 oxo solo in short period.
epistane is a totally different compound; I actually felt it within two days.
 

narraboth

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But i didn't feel anything when look into mirror either... :(
some people said they feel leaner and leaner, but that's just not my case... I actually got 1 kg more :(

I used it for about 2 weeks, but I have to admit I didn't use it everyday since it interfered my sleep; I didn't use more than 375mg for the same reason.

sorry, I am not trying to guide anyone, but if you just want to get slim and don't worry about muscle, why don't you just get some legal weight control pills? like lipase inhibitor or something.

Yeah, exactly so. They are two different kind of compounds with 2 totally different intents. As for 11oxo, you will never "feel it".

How long were you running 11oxo?
 
fatburner2007

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Using it intermittently at that dosage for less than 2 weeks, I wouldn't expect to see any results.

But i didn't feel anything when look into mirror either... :(
some people said they feel leaner and leaner, but that's just not my case... I actually got 1 kg more :(

I used it for about 2 weeks, but I have to admit I didn't use it everyday since it interfered my sleep; I didn't use more than 375mg for the same reason.

sorry, I am not trying to guide anyone, but if you just want to get slim and don't worry about muscle, why don't you just get some legal weight control pills? like lipase inhibitor or something.
 
schwellington

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okay your cutting right? So ur going to want to preserve as much muscle mass and burn as much fat? at least thats my definition- 11 sterone by itself will probably not be strong enough to preserve muscle mass-perhaps it will depends how u respond

But if u throw epistane in there u will
A. Burn even more fat than on 11 sterone alone
B. Preserve all muscle mass you currently have
C.Go up in strength
D.Build more mass- even when eating on a cutting diet


11 sterone alone cannot provide these benefits- it isnt potent enough

epistane with it- epic run


this is just my .02 this is ur cycle and whatever u do is up to u


either way good luck
 

narraboth

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hiya, it's my first time seeing something like "just my .02 ", haha

I was just trying what 11 oxo can do to me, so it was not a proper cycle anyway.

The problem is you always need to run 11 oxo with something, so it's not easy to tell if the effect is from 11 oxo is it?
same thing as running 11oxo with lean xtreme etc, you can't know your leaning is from what....

has anyone run a cycle with 11oxo and without (cycle on epi or something) and see a difference? schwellington, you have?

ANYWAY, I got 11oxo in hands, and it doesn't seem potent enough alone for me, so I agree with schwellington, I will save all the rest to a epi cycle or something :)

okay your cutting right? So ur going to want to preserve as much muscle mass and burn as much fat? at least thats my definition- 11 sterone by itself will probably not be strong enough to preserve muscle mass-perhaps it will depends how u respond

But if u throw epistane in there u will
A. Burn even more fat than on 11 sterone alone
B. Preserve all muscle mass you currently have
C.Go up in strength
D.Build more mass- even when eating on a cutting diet


11 sterone alone cannot provide these benefits- it isnt potent enough

epistane with it- epic run


this is just my .02 this is ur cycle and whatever u do is up to u


either way good luck
 

narraboth

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yeah, that's the problem.
I don't have much money, so now I will go for something cheaper that gives effect within two weeks even when pulsing.

Using it intermittently at that dosage for less than 2 weeks, I wouldn't expect to see any results.
 
fatburner2007

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Thanks for the feedback, but definitely not looking for something "potent" like epistane.

Looking for the fat loss benefits of 11oxo solo which is why I am doing a dosage of 7 caps for 6 weeks.


okay your cutting right? So ur going to want to preserve as much muscle mass and burn as much fat? at least thats my definition- 11 sterone by itself will probably not be strong enough to preserve muscle mass-perhaps it will depends how u respond

But if u throw epistane in there u will
A. Burn even more fat than on 11 sterone alone
B. Preserve all muscle mass you currently have
C.Go up in strength
D.Build more mass- even when eating on a cutting diet


11 sterone alone cannot provide these benefits- it isnt potent enough

epistane with it- epic run


this is just my .02 this is ur cycle and whatever u do is up to u


either way good luck
 
fatburner2007

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Yeah, I understand. I am not looking for a quick fix; more something like 11oxo which will be beneficial over several weeks of usage along with proper diet and exercise.



yeah, that's the problem.
I don't have much money, so now I will go for something cheaper that gives effect within two weeks even when pulsing.
 
MAxximal

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Yeah, I understand. I am not looking for a quick fix; more something like 11oxo which will be beneficial over several weeks of usage along with proper diet and exercise.
Why not use the bulk powder?

SP has it.
 

narraboth

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Why not use the bulk powder?

SP has it.
it's just a little bit cheaper i think?
about 30 dollars for 10 grams is a bit cheaper than CEL 11-sterone (75 caps of 75mg for 25 dollars), but 11-sterone is much easier to take orally. and actually it's not cheaper than androxtreme-D when it's on sale.

The only reason I bought bulk powder from SP is to make transdermal trail, my result has been posted somewhere in anabolicminds, which is negative due to very bad solubility.

I also tried to dissolve it in food oil (so that it might be absorbed better by oral route), but it's very disappointing: the solubility in oil is also low.

I still don't understand how this compound works. if the solubility is like what I have seen, most of 11oxo will just go pass your guts to your toilet, no matter how much you take. Unless something in our guts can magically transform 11-oxo to something soluble...
 
MAxximal

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it's just a little bit cheaper i think?
about 30 dollars for 10 grams is a bit cheaper than CEL 11-sterone (75 caps of 75mg for 25 dollars), but 11-sterone is much easier to take orally. and actually it's not cheaper than androxtreme-D when it's on sale.

The only reason I bought bulk powder from SP is to make transdermal trail, my result has been posted somewhere in anabolicminds, which is negative due to very bad solubility.

I also tried to dissolve it in food oil (so that it might be absorbed better by oral route), but it's very disappointing: the solubility in oil is also low.

I still don't understand how this compound works. if the solubility is like what I have seen, most of 11oxo will just go pass your guts to your toilet, no matter how much you take. Unless something in our guts can magically transform 11-oxo to something soluble...

Androxtreme-D is 150mg per cap rigth?


maybe this can help: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196863/pdf/biochemj00822-0130.pdf
 
SpmnE9zero

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so in short - 11 sterone is a cortisol suppressant that will aide in fat loss depending on how it is taken, but can also aide in a lean bulk if higher dosages are taken, after cycle is completed there is no need for a pct, does this all sound correct?

I am currently taking USP Powerfull and protein atm.

I havent cycled in almost a year and when I do I want to bulk as lean as possible so I am thinking the higher dose will be good for me.

What else do you rec taking with this? Can I continue taking the Powerfull while taking 11 sterone?
 

narraboth

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yeah, it's 150mg.

thanks for the article, it's interesting.
There is also an article made recently using Mass Spectro, checking Eurgofarm(?) 11oxo, with similar result on 11 beta OH andro.

from page 2, 50mg of adrenosterone seems decrease tetrahydrocortisol/cortisone from 1.4 and 1.0 to 0.86 and 0.87. It's not a big decrease but with higher dosage it might do more hopefully.
 

narraboth

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so in short - 11 sterone is a cortisol suppressant that will aide in fat loss depending on how it is taken, but can also aide in a lean bulk if higher dosages are taken, after cycle is completed there is no need for a pct, does this all sound correct?
I am currently taking USP Powerfull and protein atm.
I havent cycled in almost a year and when I do I want to bulk as lean as possible so I am thinking the higher dose will be good for me.

What else do you rec taking with this? Can I continue taking the Powerfull while taking 11 sterone?
hiya, I never took Powerfull so I am not sure, but I have heard people saying that it has good effect on sleep (some say it's the only good effect), so maybe you won't have sleep problem like I had with 11oxo.

According to paper, 11oxo will generate small amount of weak andro metabolite. If that's the case, then it's possible to be supressive in high dosage, therefore you might need a PCT; while I have heard the bigger issue is cortisol rebund rather than testo surpression..... maybe you will want to use some other stuffs to control your cortisol in your 11oxo 'PCT' such as high dose vit C, blah blah serine (sorry i forgot the name).

Well, if you would need a PCT anyway, I wouldn't be bothered to use it with high dosage. I would rather choose a cheaper and more effective compound, run along with lower dosage of 11oxo. Just a thought. Both epi and halo can do very effective lean bulk, but you might have other concern eg liver problem.
 
fatburner2007

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Yes, and that is exactly why I am using 11-sterone; 7 caps PD for 6 weeks. Then following it with Activate Extreme and then Lean Xtreme on Day 14 of PCT.


so in short - 11 sterone is a cortisol suppressant that will aide in fat loss depending on how it is taken, but can also aide in a lean bulk if higher dosages are taken, after cycle is completed there is no need for a pct, does this all sound correct?
 
schwellington

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hiya, it's my first time seeing something like "just my .02 ", haha

I was just trying what 11 oxo can do to me, so it was not a proper cycle anyway.

The problem is you always need to run 11 oxo with something, so it's not easy to tell if the effect is from 11 oxo is it?
same thing as running 11oxo with lean xtreme etc, you can't know your leaning is from what....

has anyone run a cycle with 11oxo and without (cycle on epi or something) and see a difference? schwellington, you have?

ANYWAY, I got 11oxo in hands, and it doesn't seem potent enough alone for me, so I agree with schwellington, I will save all the rest to a epi cycle or something :)
well from personal experience I cannot tell you if 11 oxo alone will preserve muscle while cutting fat- it WILL help in cutting fat- but preserving muscle? I dont know-

From personal experience with 11 oxo and epistane together I CAN tell you that the two helped me- Preserve muscle mass, (actually I gained muscle mass- added 40 lbs to my dead lift at a 800 calorie deficit- i was like w t f) these two helped me loose about 3-4% bf if I had to guess


Statiscally speaking I can tell you 11 oxo by itself is not strong enough


but thats just statistics at the end of the day what matters is how you dieted and how you trained these are the KEY factors in both fat loss and muscle building


plus your body may or may not respond well to it who knows
 

narraboth

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sorry for my poor english.

I meant have you run two epi cycle, one with 11oxo and one without 11oxo, and you found epi+ 11oxo is really better than epi alone....

well I will combine them anyway :p


well from personal experience I cannot tell you if 11 oxo alone will preserve muscle while cutting fat- it WILL help in cutting fat- but preserving muscle? I dont know-

From personal experience with 11 oxo and epistane together I CAN tell you that the two helped me- Preserve muscle mass, (actually I gained muscle mass- added 40 lbs to my dead lift at a 800 calorie deficit- i was like w t f) these two helped me loose about 3-4% bf if I had to guess


Statiscally speaking I can tell you 11 oxo by itself is not strong enough


but thats just statistics at the end of the day what matters is how you dieted and how you trained these are the KEY factors in both fat loss and muscle building


plus your body may or may not respond well to it who knows
 
rochabp

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yeah i think methyl dht or epistane would be better cutters
 
rochabp

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Probably, but not looking for something like that.
what do you mean?
is it that you are not looking for hormonals? or you are not looking for supressive hormonals?
 
fatburner2007

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Let me clarify...not looking for anything stronger than 11-sterone.

what do you mean?
is it that you are not looking for hormonals? or you are not looking for supressive hormonals?
 
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fatburner2007

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Sorry, but not familiar with it. Already running 11-sterone solo for this cycle; maybe consider it for the next one. Can you provide a link or general info on it?


methyl dht sint that strong in fact many suggest a OTC PCT
 
schwellington

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sorry for my poor english.

I meant have you run two epi cycle, one with 11oxo and one without 11oxo, and you found epi+ 11oxo is really better than epi alone....

well I will combine them anyway :p
Thats correct i ran have used epistane twice- once by itself and once with 11 sterone


Now I cant say which was more effective at fat loss though- My first cycle I ever ran was epistane and it was in the winter for a bulk- gained 10 lbs and kept 9 of them stayed pretty lean.


Next cycle was epistane 11 sterone in the summer for a cut- stayed at 212 for the full five weeks but kept getting thinner- thus i preserved all my muscle mass and lost fat (i like to go by the mirror as well as the scale)

OP i understand your desire for not wanting anything too supressive- it can be scary no doubt- but if u have the right pct u will be fine- but its ur body and I respect whatever u do with it!


That being said i have used an otc pct for epistane and was fine

but i would not use otc for 11 sterone and epistane- I def had shutdown from it
 
fatburner2007

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Yeah, see that is just it and my purpose from the being...not wanting to bulk or gain any additional size which seems would occur with epistane (not familiar enough, but think the same with D-Plex). Therefore, from the various feedback, for my goals, 11-sterone solo seemed to be the best route.



Thats correct i ran have used epistane twice- once by itself and once with 11 sterone


Now I cant say which was more effective at fat loss though- My first cycle I ever ran was epistane and it was in the winter for a bulk- gained 10 lbs and kept 9 of them stayed pretty lean.


Next cycle was epistane 11 sterone in the summer for a cut- stayed at 212 for the full five weeks but kept getting thinner- thus i preserved all my muscle mass and lost fat (i like to go by the mirror as well as the scale)

OP i understand your desire for not wanting anything too supressive- it can be scary no doubt- but if u have the right pct u will be fine- but its ur body and I respect whatever u do with it!


That being said i have used an otc pct for epistane and was fine

but i would not use otc for 11 sterone and epistane- I def had shutdown from it
 
schwellington

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it will be effective either way if and only if ur deit is on point
 
rochabp

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let me know how it goes man cuz im interested in this, im planning on running a ph cut after my superdrol bulk, but cant decide on epi, methyl dht or this
 

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