Concerned about safety of different supplements (topic: sprinting)

Hixy

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Hello everybody,

I'm turning 18 in 3 months, and I recently discovered that I may have a natural ability to be good at sprinting. My entire life, I almost haven't done any form of running. I've only done some weight training; this was not a futile endeavour though: 140kg squat, 160kg DL, 100kg power clean, 90kg bench. I recently ran a 12 sec 100m. Not all too impressive, but taking into consideration I've never run before, my form is ****, my condition is ****, my muscles are ****, it might mean something. I've been recruited to a sprinting team and I'll see how far I can take it. Naturally, I've started studying the event (100m/200m), running technique etc. I'm determined to take this as far as it can go.

This leads me to my actual reason for writing this post. I know supplements can help a lot in terms of enhancing performance and recovery (when diet and sleep is taken care of, of course). However, I'm concerned with what these substances will do to my body long-term. I'd rather not get any defects/diseases from taking these supplements.

I've been looking through this forum for other posts regarding a sprinters supplements, and the recommended supplements included:

  • RPM
  • Drive
  • NeoVar
  • IGF-2
  • HGHup

  • Clout*
  • Body Octane*
Now, AFAIK, these somehow alter the testosterone level in the body. As these are deemed "natural testosterone boosters" - will they effect the testosterone system negatively in the long term? Will they mess up my body's natural testosterone production? Do they have any other negative effects?

*I know these aren't testosterone boosters, but are they safe? I know they contain stimulants, but are they safe to play with?
I've tried piracetam before, for 3 weeks at around 5g/day, and I couldn't really feel any difference (of course supplemented with a choline source). Piracetam is the most researched nootropic and shouldn't be toxic, right?

Thus, I've been searching for products without testosterone boosting effects, but enhancing performance and recovery through other mechanisms. This is what I have in mind:

  • Animal Pak
  • High-dose Fish Oil
  • Creatine
  • Beta-Alanine - 10g per day, every day, split into how many doses? 5g morning and 2g pre-workout (see Mesomorph below)?
  • BCAAs - How much whey is needed when supplementing with BCAAs? If I can find Pepto Pro I'm gonna replace BCAAs with that.

  • Cordygen VO2 Ultra - 3-6 capsules per day, every day; on workout days 45-60 min pre-workout
  • APS Mesomorph - Contains CM (about 4g), BA (about 3g), Icariin, GPLC, Creatine mix, L-Taurine
  • Bulk Citrulline Malate - 6g seems to be the minimum for noticing the effects - I'm thinking of taking 6g twice per day, adding 2g to the Mesomorph
  • Bulk GPLC - Add small amounts in addition to Mesomorph to see how training improves (a small amount of GPLC (I'd guess aroudn 1g) is already in Mesomorph, Pre-Max from Primordial Performance says 4,5g is optimal, thus I'd like to add until 4,5 is reached)
What do you think of this list? Is it safe?

As I look at the list now, I could ditch the Mesomorph and supplement with creatine, BA, CM, GPLC instead. I'd lose Icariin and L-Taurine, would that matter?

Thanks guys!
-Hixy
 
nattydisaster

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at 18 all you need is some food, proper sleep, some protein, and maybe some creatine.

Because you're sprinting I would not use over 2500mg creatine monohydrate per day.

If you are looking for a supplement with low creatine and also some stims to "amp" you up, I would go with jack3d since it has the low creatine dose and simple formula for an 18yr old.

What are you stats?
 

Hixy

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Thanks for your quick relpy, Nattydisaster! I've read some of your other posts (impressive) and I was hoping you would chime in :)

Stats:
Height: 5'8
Weight: 165, 8% BF

Numbers:
  • Squat: 140 kg ~ 310 lbs
  • DL: 160 kg ~ 355 lbs
  • Power Clean: 100 kg ~ 225 lbs
  • Bench: 90 kg ~ 200 lbs
Times:
  • 100m: 12.52 electronically measured (only meet I've been to). Ran this with shin-splints, so I'm not sure what the correct times are. A guy I'm training with runs around 12 flat, and I beat him every time.
  • 200m: 25.57 electronically measured. No gas in the end.
Never been running => no gas after 50m of all-out sprinting. My muscles are ready for the job, but my conditioning is lacking behind.


With regards to Jack3d, I was worried about the side-effects of 1,3-Dimethylamylamine (DMAA)? I know DMAA and DMAE are both arsenicals, thus must exert somewhat the same effect on the body. As DMAE has been shown to decrease lifespan (conflicting studies, actually, some saying increase some saying decrease), I'd rather be on the safe side and stay away from that. I'm probably wrong, though, please correct me if so :)
 
VolcomX311

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Beta Alanine. BA raises your lactate threshold aka, your ability to hold top speed. Michael Johnson didn't have the fastest start, nor did he have the fastest top speed, but he was able to hold his top speed longer then his competition and that was the physiological secret to his success.

Same with Lance Armstrong, doping issues aside, cause they all do it, people made a huge deal about his VO2 max. His VO2 max was great in comparison to a lay person, but it was relatively average as far as elite cyclists go, but Lance had the highest lactate threshold, meaning, he was able to flush out lactic acid the most efficiently, so he could maintain peak speed or peak effort longer then his competition.

BA raises your lactate threshold by buffering H+ in the blood (the side product of ATP) which is what causes the numbing sensation and inability to maximally contract, or something....

BA and Creatine make for a good combo for a sprinter. Drive and RPM are allegedly geared toward the athlete, so they're my default answer for a sprinter as well, however, I personally cannot explain why that is, to the extent I can regarding creatine and beta alanine.
 

Hixy

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Volcom: Yeah, I'll definitely be supplementing with creatine and BA.
 
poison

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I'd take MAN Clout, 3gr citrulline 2x/day, Cordygen5 orVO2, and RPM is you need a stim hit. Keep in mind: caffeine is one of the most potent performance enhancers, but it loses its effect with regular use. You'd have to abstain daily and only use it pre-event. It also may reduce creatines effects, or change them. Those two reasons are why Clout is decaf.

Drop the Mesomorph, it's not needed.I'd drop the GPLC, as well, and maybe add it in later. The above cover every angle with no overlap, and are potent and proven. It's also not excessive. People tend to rely on supps, but trust me:either you're fast, or you're not. These supps will make training easier (and speed improvement), and maybe add 1-3%, but that's it.
 
Rosie Chee

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...I've been recruited to a sprinting team and I'll see how far I can take it. Naturally, I've started studying the event (100m/200m), running technique etc. I'm determined to take this as far as it can go.

This leads me to my actual reason for writing this post. I know supplements can help a lot in terms of enhancing performance and recovery (when diet and sleep is taken care of, of course). However, I'm concerned with what these substances will do to my body long-term. I'd rather not get any defects/diseases from taking these supplements.

I've been looking through this forum for other posts regarding a sprinters supplements, and the recommended supplements included:

  • RPM
    [*]Drive
    [*]NeoVar
  • IGF-2
  • HGHup
Now, AFAIK, these somehow alter the testosterone level in the body. As these are deemed "natural testosterone boosters" - will they effect the testosterone system negatively in the long term? Will they mess up my body's natural testosterone production? Do they have any other negative effects?

...

Thus, I've been searching for products without testosterone boosting effects, but enhancing performance and recovery through other mechanisms. This is what I have in mind:

  • Animal Pak
  • High-dose Fish Oil
  • Creatine
  • Beta-Alanine - 10g per day, every day, split into how many doses? 5g morning and 2g pre-workout (see Mesomorph below)?
  • BCAAs - How much whey is needed when supplementing with BCAAs? If I can find Pepto Pro I'm gonna replace BCAAs with that.

  • Cordygen VO2 Ultra - 3-6 capsules per day, every day; on workout days 45-60 min pre-workout
  • APS Mesomorph - Contains CM (about 4g), BA (about 3g), Icariin, GPLC, Creatine mix, L-Taurine
  • Bulk Citrulline Malate - 6g seems to be the minimum for noticing the effects - I'm thinking of taking 6g twice per day, adding 2g to the Mesomorph
  • Bulk GPLC - Add small amounts in addition to Mesomorph to see how training improves (a small amount of GPLC (I'd guess aroudn 1g) is already in Mesomorph, Pre-Max from Primordial Performance says 4,5g is optimal, thus I'd like to add until 4,5 is reached)

What do you think of this list? Is it safe?
NeoVar is NOT a natural Testosterone booster - it is a CREATINE product with nutrient repartitioning properties.

Natural Testosterone boosters should not affect you negatively in either the short or long-term (and in all honesty, once cannot really know the long-term effects unless they have been monitoring their bloods and everything else over a period of many years of use). And no, since they naturally help your body's Testosterone production, they do not alter or mess it up. They do not have negative effects, although they can cause in some individuals an increase in acne and aggression, which, depending on who you are could be considered "negative".

Drive/RPM is definitely a popular stack among sprinters, and this is the recommended stack from the Applied line when we are queried specifically.

I am an ex-sprinter and have been a 100m/200m/400m sprint coach, and from experience, Drive personally helps, especially re sprint/speed endurance. At 18 years old, you do not really need any supplements but the basics (creatine, multivitamin, good fats, protein, BCAAs), but Drive would definitely help in your endurance - although sprinting is no an endurance event, if you are doing multiple heats, then you do need endurance to be able to perform with little recovery between heats, etc.

So, based on your age - and also because you are new to sprinting and supplementation - creatine and BCAAs (as well as a multivitamin, which EVERYone should be using regardless of if they train or not - you can get enough good fats and protein from your diet) are the only two supplements that I would recommend you use (and that you need to use). You certainly don't need to use a huge stack such as you listed.

As far as amounts re BCAAs, that's really up to you, but you can dose pre, during, and post-training, ~10g each time.

There are other supplements that have been proven to help sprinting performance, but due to negative effects, your age, training experience, and performance level, etc., I would definitely not recommend them.


at 18 all you need is some food, proper sleep, some protein, and maybe some creatine.
^^^I would go BCAAs over the protein, but the creatine definitely. If you have a decent sprint coach, then training correctly to optimize performance is going to go a long way, especially since sprinting is as much about technique (the wrong technique can make a world of difference, especially if you are not good out of the blocks, your running technique is less than optimal, etc. - and making sure both your technique out of the blocks and running can shave precious time off, and even the smallest amount can make a huge difference re placing, etc.) as about power (explosiveness) and speed, and training/practice is often the best way to improve performance. So honestly, place more importance on training and your technique than anything else.

~Team APPNUT
 
A_I_Sports_Nutrition

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at 18 all you need is some food, proper sleep, some protein, and maybe some creatine.
Because you're sprinting I would not use over 2500mg creatine monohydrate per day.

If you are looking for a supplement with low creatine and also some stims to "amp" you up, I would go with jack3d since it has the low creatine dose and simple formula for an 18yr old.

What are you stats?
Agreed.
 

Hixy

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Thanks for your replies! I really appreciate the opinion of experienced and knowledgeable people.

I'll be keeping it simple for the upcoming period. That means supplementing with multivitamin, fish oil, creatine, BCAAs.

As I've become more experienced, I'll be adding in RPM, Drive, MAN Clout, Cordygen VO2, Citrulline. How long is this (approx.)? ½-1 year?

Any particular reason for not adding GPLC right away? The science seems convincing. When talking about GPLC, what do you think of the related substance ArginoCarn?

In the coming period I'll be undertaking a very rigorous training regimen (3+ hours of sprinting and weightlifting combined for 5-6 days/weak, alternating high intensity and low intensity days). Since neurotransmitters can be depleted during intense exercise and this depletion can cause fatigue, I was thinking of adding 1-2 grams of phosphatidylcholine and 6-8 grams of tyrosine to restore neurotransmitter balance. What do you think of this? This might be another reason to add ArginoCarn/ALCAR?


By the way, my coach is not that knowledgeable which is partly why I'm educating myself in as many aspects as possible. If interested, Rosie, I'll send you our current program and you can see for yourself. If more interested, Rosie, I can send you my alternative to his program :p I know nothing can replace proper guidance, but right now I have no alternative. I've studied top sprinters' running forms, watched 10+ (got 20 left) educational movies about sprinting and training from the top coaches in the world (Tom Tellez included), and read practically every diet book out there to find what works for me.
 
SilentBob187

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Hixy, you have got to be one of the most receptive, polite, and grammatically correct 17 year-olds on this site.

So far it looks like you are going about everything the right way. You are not looking for shortcuts like a high percentage seem to be after these days. Good luck with your sprinting career.

Keep that attitude and I am sure you will go far, and rather quickly too.
 

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at 18 all you need is some food, proper sleep, some protein, and maybe some creatine.

Because you're sprinting I would not use over 2500mg creatine monohydrate per day.

If you are looking for a supplement with low creatine and also some stims to "amp" you up, I would go with jack3d since it has the low creatine dose and simple formula for an 18yr old.

What are you stats?
Agreed.

I have to disagree here. When I was a senior in high school I discovered the world of supps half way through the season and began using a citruline malate/Beta-Alanine/BCAA stack before my races. It IMMEDIATELY took an entire second off of my 400m times... my muscles had plenty more give in the last 50 or so meters, which is where I always hit a wall. My muscles were by far much less fatigued.

Now, I'm not sure how much this would help on a 100m.... maybe a tenth of a second or so. With a proper conditioning routine your legs shouldn't become that fatigued at all in a 100.
 
VolcomX311

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BA should really be on top of the list, the potential to increase your lactate threshold is rather significant, and BA is as safe and natural as creatine.

Creatine benefits for maximizing ATP and the BA to buffer ATP's side product H+. It really is a double edged sword.
 
Rosie Chee

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I'll be keeping it simple for the upcoming period. That means supplementing with multivitamin, fish oil, creatine, BCAAs.

As I've become more experienced, I'll be adding in RPM, Drive, MAN Clout, Cordygen VO2, Citrulline. How long is this (approx.)? ½-1 year?
LONGER - you're just starting out. Seriously, you don't need to start taking anything and everything just because it's there. Give yourself a few YEARS is my recommendation - others will disagree, no doubt, but in the end, it's up to you' we can only advise.


In the coming period I'll be undertaking a very rigorous training regimen (3+ hours of sprinting and weightlifting combined for 5-6 days/weak, alternating high intensity and low intensity days). Since neurotransmitters can be depleted during intense exercise and this depletion can cause fatigue, I was thinking of adding 1-2 grams of phosphatidylcholine and 6-8 grams of tyrosine to restore neurotransmitter balance. What do you think of this? This might be another reason to add ArginoCarn/ALCAR?
3+ hours training a DAY? You're just plowing right in, aren't you. Be careful that you don't burn yourself out. You should never just go into it like that (and if I'm interpreting this wrong, my apologies). Even so, I still wouldn't recommend anything but the basics, especially since you're JUST starting out.


By the way, my coach is not that knowledgeable which is partly why I'm educating myself in as many aspects as possible. If interested, Rosie, I'll send you our current program and you can see for yourself. If more interested, Rosie, I can send you my alternative to his program :p I know nothing can replace proper guidance, but right now I have no alternative. I've studied top sprinters' running forms, watched 10+ (got 20 left) educational movies about sprinting and training from the top coaches in the world (Tom Tellez included), and read practically every diet book out there to find what works for me.
If your coach is not that knowledgeable, then what is he doing being a coach? And why are you under that coach? Take my advice, and if you're serious about sprinting, then go and find yourself the BEST coach possible - and I'm talking the coach of champions and winners, the higher the level the better, since if you have a subpar coach, you're only going to go so far and then no more (you may start out fine since you've never done it before, but that may be as far as you go).

I don't need to see either of your programs - and if you've just started out, then you're not really qualified to say your coach is not that knowledgeable or write yourself an alternative plan. And if you're just going to second guess your coach or ask others' opinions on their training programme all the time, then should definitely NOT be with that coach, because it's obvious that you do not trust them to bring you to your optimal performance. You should never second guess your coach; you can always ask them why they have done what they have done - and I encourage this! - and they should be able to explain it to you, but if they can't, then, well, use some common sense.

And yes, my comments may seem a bit harsh, but if you want to be the best, then you go to the best.


~Team APPNUT
 

Hixy

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LONGER - you're just starting out. Seriously, you don't need to start taking anything and everything just because it's there. Give yourself a few YEARS is my recommendation - others will disagree, no doubt, but in the end, it's up to you' we can only advise.


3+ hours training a DAY? You're just plowing right in, aren't you. Be careful that you don't burn yourself out. You should never just go into it like that (and if I'm interpreting this wrong, my apologies). Even so, I still wouldn't recommend anything but the basics, especially since you're JUST starting out.
To say I'm a novice might be incorrect. I'm new to sprinting, sure, but I've been doing intense exercise before this, and perhaps more than 3 hours 6 days a week.
2 years ago I started weightlifting following Mark Rippetoes Starting Strength program - 3 months and boom, 100kg squat (5 RM, albeit poor form due to heavy weight), 100kg DL (5 RM), 65kg bench (5 RM), 50kg press (1RM). This was my introduction and "warm-up", you could say, to the upcoming rigors of CrossFit (CF) training (with no running involved, however). I started out light with CF - around 4 times per week, slowly increasing to 6 times per week. This wasn't adequate and more results came when I added in 2-a-days; quickly I was training 8-9 times per week. I slowly got tired of CrossFit training; I saw improvements in the workouts (WODs) but my strength increases stopped, and I wanted to try new things. Gained 45 lbs first year (growth spurts included). 1 year ago I stopped CrossFitting and went over to more olympic style weightlifting. Slow gains. Increased my squat and DL each with 30-40kg the months from January => April (4 months), before I decided I wanted to try sprinting (i.e. 3 months ago). My sprinting muscles weren't accustomed to this new load, I soon had to realize, as my shins were in huge pain from shin splints. At first, I just trained through it (now I know better). It has taken a long time for me to get the sprinter muscles, tendons and ligaments ready; first I had jumper's knee, although lasting only 1 week due to my "very quick healing and dedication to rehabilitating", some tendon in my right foot was annoying me, shin splints.
These previous training experiences I think would qualify me to be able to experiment a bit with my training programs. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced enough when it comes to designing sprinting programs to be able to make a complete program for myself yet. Also, I don't like not knowing what's going on, which is why I'm educating myself as much as possible (and I love to read about it). Even though I'm in the beginning stages of learning what a good sprinting program entails, I can already see conflicting points between the points of the successful coaches and the coach I'm currently training under. For one, my coach is having us do lots of conditioning off- and pre-season, with acceleration and maximum velocity training in-season, whereas the exact opposite is proposed in most literature. And his "focus" on acceleration and maximum velocity training is a 1-day a week practice with blocks and sprints (90m, 80m, 70m, 60m, 50, 40m, 30m) without total recovery.

As I'm still new to sprinting, but have been training for a few years, does this still mean I shouldn't introduce new supplements to my supplement protocol?



If your coach is not that knowledgeable, then what is he doing being a coach? And why are you under that coach? Take my advice, and if you're serious about sprinting, then go and find yourself the BEST coach possible - and I'm talking the coach of champions and winners, the higher the level the better, since if you have a subpar coach, you're only going to go so far and then no more (you may start out fine since you've never done it before, but that may be as far as you go).

I don't need to see either of your programs - and if you've just started out, then you're not really qualified to say your coach is not that knowledgeable or write yourself an alternative plan. And if you're just going to second guess your coach or ask others' opinions on their training programme all the time, then should definitely NOT be with that coach, because it's obvious that you do not trust them to bring you to your optimal performance. You should never second guess your coach; you can always ask them why they have done what they have done - and I encourage this! - and they should be able to explain it to you, but if they can't, then, well, use some common sense.

And yes, my comments may seem a bit harsh, but if you want to be the best, then you go to the best.


~Team APPNUT
Yes, you're right. I should be looking for another coach. I'll be getting my driver's license as soon as I turn 18 (3 months!), which will allow me to drive to the best club (that I know of) in the area. It takes too long to get there by bus and train, so the other club will have to suffice for the next couple of months.
 
VolcomX311

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Rosie's kind of hardcore. I'm a strength & conditioning coach, so I don't know the in's & out's of sprinting technique, outside of improving stride length x stride frequency, but some of the sprint coaches I know are aware of how many steps or strides their athletes take to complete their race and one form of gauging improvements are by decreasing the amount of strides, as its a sign of increased stride length. Pretty intricate stuff.
 
Rosie Chee

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To say I'm a novice might be incorrect. I'm new to sprinting, sure, but I've been doing intense exercise before this, and perhaps more than 3 hours 6 days a week.
Read what I wrote: "You should never just go into it like that (and if I'm interpreting this wrong, my apologies)."


I decided I wanted to try sprinting (i.e. 3 months ago). My sprinting muscles weren't accustomed to this new load, I soon had to realize, as my shins were in huge pain from shin splints. At first, I just trained through it (now I know better). It has taken a long time for me to get the sprinter muscles, tendons and ligaments ready; first I had jumper's knee, although lasting only 1 week due to my "very quick healing and dedication to rehabilitating", some tendon in my right foot was annoying me, shin splints.
"Shin splints" is actually a BLANKET term that encompasses ALL the injuries of the lower leg - i.e. medial tibial stress syndrome, compartment syndrome, etc. Many people incorrectly call it "shin splints", and if you don't know what injury you had, then it can keep recurring until you resolve the issue.


These previous training experiences I think would qualify me to be able to experiment a bit with my training programs. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced enough when it comes to designing sprinting programs to be able to make a complete program for myself yet. Also, I don't like not knowing what's going on, which is why I'm educating myself as much as possible (and I love to read about it). Even though I'm in the beginning stages of learning what a good sprinting program entails, I can already see conflicting points between the points of the successful coaches and the coach I'm currently training under. For one, my coach is having us do lots of conditioning off- and pre-season, with acceleration and maximum velocity training in-season, whereas the exact opposite is proposed in most literature. And his "focus" on acceleration and maximum velocity training is a 1-day a week practice with blocks and sprints (90m, 80m, 70m, 60m, 50, 40m, 30m) without total recovery.
Experiment with your resistance training programmes and general cardio, maybe, but not for a sports programme for a sport that you admittedly have just started into. And reading about something and being able to design something functional are two different things as well.

If your coach has no champions, then that would be a point of concern. If they do, and their programme is controversial, then it means that it must work - but if they cannot or will not explain why they do what they do, then, yes, definitely time to look elsewhere.


As I'm still new to sprinting, but have been training for a few years, does this still mean I shouldn't introduce new supplements to my supplement protocol?
Actually, yes. You're only 17. You don't need anything but the basics. And regardless of your training history, because you are new to sprinting, until you are competing at Open National level, then you really don't need anything. When you get to that level, then whatever you can do to improve your performance even by a few milliseconds can make a world of difference, but until then, your biggest improvements are going to be in technique and practice.


Rosie's kind of hardcore. I'm a strength & conditioning coach, so I don't know the in's & out's of sprinting technique, outside of improving stride length x stride frequency, but some of the sprint coaches I know are aware of how many steps or strides their athletes take to complete their race and one form of gauging improvements are by decreasing the amount of strides, as its a sign of increased stride length. Pretty intricate stuff.
It's not about being "hardcore". It's about doing everything possible to condition your athletes to perform to the ultimate best of their ability and fulfill their potential, to make champions. I am one of "those" coaches - I taped my athletes and made them watch themselves, knew their times and what they needed to improve by, where and how their technique was weak, etc.

I was fortunate enough to have the best-of-the-best coaches when I was a competitive athlete, and even in a sport I competed in for "fun", I still went to the best-of-the-best in my country for advice and aid - that, IMO, is the way to do it. I was also lucky enough that my coaches explained to me everything they did along the way, so that I understood - and this, IMO, is also the way it should be; an athlete should never just blindly follow something, or be ignorant of what they're doing.

This life has also been my LIFE since I was 14, and I am the way I am because of who I am, and because of my experiences as an athlete and with my coaches.


~Team APPNUT
 
VolcomX311

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The hardcore comment wasn't anything less then a compliment. I concur with the attitude of being the best you can be :beerchug: I'm one of "those" strength coaches. I hardly treat my girls any different then my guys.
 

Hixy

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It looks like what I had was medial tibial stress syndrome. My current plan is the following:
Do half volume of what everybody else is doing. I'll continue this for a couple of weeks. If the pain is still gone, add 10% of the workload every 2nd week.

Summary:
I'm young, and I need to keep things simple.

Sprinter training must be performed under a well-renowned coach, who has produced champions.
Discussing the training protocol with the coach is encouraged, and studying the race helps you understand the training, why you're doing what you're doing, why you're running as you do and so on.

My supplement protocol should be limited to the most basic supplements:
  • Multi vitamin
  • Fish oil
  • BCAA
  • Creatine
  • Maybe beta alanine

When I've reached the Open National level, I'll be ready to add supplements to get as much time off as possible. These supplements include:
  • RPM
  • Drive
  • NeoVar
  • Clout
  • Cordygen5 or Cordygen VO2 Ultra
  • IGF-2
  • HGHup
  • Citrulline Malate
  • GPLC
  • ArginoCarn

... Of course this list should be updated periodically, as new supplements most likely have been developed until then.


Natural testosterone boosters aren't harmful, and so is supplements altering your HGH level through natural means (i.e. herbs) neither.



One unanswered question:
To prevent depletion of neutransmitters: 1-2 grams of phosphatidylcholine (lecithin, normally in the form of soy lecithin, I know "NO SOY!" due to estrogen levels etc.) and 6-8 grams of tyrosine? What about Piracetam?
I'm not saying I should add this to my supplement regimen, this is merely a question I've been pondering over for a while.



Thanks everyone, you've been a tremendous help!
 
poison

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Normal amounts of soy are fine; you're certainly not going to have some weird estrogenic sides from phosphatidylcholine.

But I agree with the 'simple' supp approach. If you look at your gains in weights and crossfit, you'll understand gains come as fast and as easy as they ever will, right now, for you. Why blow money on a supp that'll get you negligible increases in performance, when you can get orders of magnitude better increases from simply training better?

It's like cars: people buy some wazoo cars, mod the hellout of em, chip them for 450hp and throw some coilovers on em, then get beat at the local autocross by some dude in a bone stock 84 gti. Why? Because gti dude upgraded DRIVERS and learned himself to drive, while the other guys are utilizing less than 50% of their vehicles potential. If you can make a 20% improvement by learning proper form, or getting a better coach, why waste time with the 1% from a supplement?
 

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