Advice on a thermogenic...

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    Advice on a thermogenic...


    Iím just starting my 2nd cycle, 500mg/wk ICN Test Enanthate. Iím looking to really lean up this time around. The first cycle I just ate my ass off and went for the all out calories approach. I gained very well off 500mg/wk but I also got more fat then I would have liked. I still have some fat on my lower abs from that cycle. I plan to eat cleaner this time and do regular cardio (i literally did no regular cardio before lol). I'm much more concerned with overall composition now rather than sheer weight/size gain.

    Whatís a good thermogenic to throw in with my cycle? I read good things about Tri-Max but it seems a bit harsh. Also its very suppressive and I dont want to tinker with thyroid just yet. I figured I would give the milder things a try first. I have used ECA's in the past (mainly just for pre-workout energy). When Ephedrine got banned I snagged some super cheap Ripped Fuel (i know it sucks but i got a deal). Should I just use that? Anything else with it? Maybe I could take a milder ephedrine free one in the morning, ripped fuel before workout and back to the milder ones in the afternoon/evening? They dont have to be "milder" but obviously nothing has ephedrine in it anymore.

    I was also thinking about throwing in some M4OHN. Ive been wanting to try it and if it truly has ANY Anavar-like effects it could help a lot - probably toss it in towards the end.

    Any advice/opinions on any aspect of the above mentioned topics are welcomed. I havenít followed the Thermogenic supps much lately, there are too many to keep up with.
    Last edited by Alpine; 05-22-2004 at 03:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine
    Iím just starting my 2nd cycle, 500mg/wk ICN Test Enanthate. Iím looking to really lean up this time around. The first cycle I just ate my ass off and went for the all out calories approach. I gained very well off 500mg/wk but I also got more fat then I would have liked. I still have some fat on my lower abs from that cycle. I plan to eat cleaner this time and do regular cardio (i literally did no regular cardio before lol). I'm much more concerned with overall composition now rather than sheer weight/size gain.

    Whatís a good thermogenic to throw in with my cycle? I read good things about Tri-Max but it seems a bit harsh. Also its very suppressive and I dont want to tinker with thyroid just yet. I figured I would give the milder things a try first. I have used ECA's in the past (mainly just for pre-workout energy). When Ephedrine got banned I snagged some super cheap Ripped Fuel (i know it sucks but i got a deal). Should I just use that? Anything else with it? Maybe I could take a milder ephedrine free one in the morning, ripped fuel before workout and back to the milder ones in the afternoon/evening? They dont have to be "milder" but obviously nothing has ephedrine in it anymore.

    I was also thinking about throwing in some M4OHN. Ive been wanting to try it and if it truly has ANY Anavar-like effects it could help a lot - probably toss it in towards the end.

    Any advice/opinions on any aspect of the above mentioned topics are welcomed. I havenít followed the Thermogenic supps much lately, there are too many to keep up with.
    I would probably use an ECY (ephedrine, caffeine, yohimbine), all the ingredients are readily available, and pretty damn cheap at that. Always worked for me.
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    Ya, Ive heard a lot about yohimbine. Is there a particular ECY product I can get? I dont want to hunt down individual compounds and mess with measring them out and then capping or mixing them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine
    Ya, Ive heard a lot about yohimbine. Is there a particular ECY product I can get? I dont want to hunt down individual compounds and mess with measring them out and then capping or mixing them.
    Not exactly. Since ephedra is banned, the only way you can get ephedrine is distributed is as a form of asthma med, so they put in guaferesine (sp?). So basically you're going to have to buy the individual pills. Check out bulknutrition... get some caffeine 200mg per pill, yohimbine HCL 2.5mg per pill, and some vasopro 25mg, dont exactly have to go cap your own unless you really want to. Personally I go 400mg caffeine, 5mg YHCL and 25mg Eph, gives me a good jump start in the morning.
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    If you're lazy and have the money you could always stack some vasopro with something like Avant's H.E.A.T, Xtreme Formulations Chizled, Ergopharm Ergolean MC. There's a lot of new Ephedrine free fatburners out there that seem really good on paper and have some good feedback, and adding ephedrine HCL via Vasopro would make them that much more potent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by surferdude26
    Not exactly. Since ephedra is banned, the only way you can get ephedrine is distributed is as a form of asthma med, so they put in guaferesine (sp?). So basically you're going to have to buy the individual pills.
    This is actually not true. Ephedra is banned but you can definitely still get Ephedrine HCL by itself without anything else in it. I don't want to post the link here because I don't think it's allowed, but if you PM me I'll send you a link to the the place I order mine from.
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    Thanx for the replies...
    Ya, I am kina lazy I just wish I could shell out some money and snag 1 good product and be done with it. God damn them for banning ephedrine.

    Ok so lets try this:
    Besides the ephedrine HCL (vasopro), what is the best all in one product to get? Avant HEAT? Ergolean MC?
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    Quote Originally Posted by psywzrd
    This is actually not true. Ephedra is banned but you can definitely still get Ephedrine HCL by itself without anything else in it. I don't want to post the link here because I don't think it's allowed, but if you PM me I'll send you a link to the the place I order mine from.
    erm... thats why i said get the vasopro, which IS the individual pill i was talking about, sheesh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by surferdude26
    erm... thats why i said get the vasopro, which IS the individual pill i was talking about, sheesh.
    Uh - no need to get testy. You weren't clear at all with what you said and I was only trying to help the guy out. It's not like I attacked you or anything and after going back and re-reading your posts, you gave contradicting information so that's why I posted what I did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by psywzrd
    Uh - no need to get testy. You weren't clear at all with what you said and I was only trying to help the guy out. It's not like I attacked you or anything and after going back and re-reading your posts, you gave contradicting information so that's why I posted what I did.
    Well at least I explained it the best i could. Wasn't getting testy... so sorry if that came out wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine
    Ok so lets try this:
    Besides the ephedrine HCL (vasopro), what is the best all in one product to get? Avant HEAT? Ergolean MC?
    I'd go with HEAT or Xtreme Formulations Chizled. And if you do I wanna hear feedback And take it from me, eating a grapefruit an hour or so before you take whatever ECA type supplement will supercharge the effects, especially for pre-workout.
    Last edited by supersoldier; 05-23-2004 at 04:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    I'd go with HEAT or BLS Etched. And if you do I wanna hear feedback
    Hmm, I was comparing some formulations and H.E.A.T has some odd stuff in it. Hordenine, Evodiamine, Alpha-yohimbine, and Tyramine. Yohimbine is the only thing that sounds familiar to me. I think VPX Redline has Evodiamine in it too.

    Has HEAT been getting good reviews? You guys think its the most effective thermogenic on the market right now? Like I said, I havent been following the supplement/thermogenic news much. Im behind in whats been shown to be effective. I stopped caring around the time when NYC got real popular....

    Etched is a Transdermal isnt it? I dont really want to mess with that.
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    Ah ya that looks pretty good... so what seems to get the best reviews?
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    clen?
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    Clen yes, but only works well for 2-3 weeks. You'd have to switch to some kinda ECA like supp for another 2-3 weeks after that. Those products are really new. For H.E.A.T. I know sawastea did a review here and at Avant Avant Labs' H.E.A.T. Log / Review , also there are a few more reviews at Avant's forum. I've never read a review on Chizled but I can tell you from the ingredients listed that it will kick ass, especially stacked with Vasopro. (and don't skimp out on the grapefruit )
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    Believe it or not, the ingredients in the Lipo6 EF also looks pretty good. As well as Tight!
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    Quote Originally Posted by surferdude26
    Believe it or not, the ingredients in the Lipo6 EF also looks pretty good. As well as Tight!
    Yeah my buddy stacks EF Lipo6 with Vasopro pre-workout (and a slew of ph's/AAS ) and says he feels invinceable.
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    Lipo6 EF: 120 caps (liquid cap version)

    Serving Size: 2 Liqui-Caps
    Servings Per Container: 60

    Synephrine HCL 20mg
    Synthetic 99% Guggulsterones Z&E 1:1 20mg
    Yohimbe HCL 3mg
    Caffeine Anhydrous USP 200mg
    Bioperine 5mg

    Chizled: 180 caps

    Serving Size: 3 capsules
    Servings Per Conatiner: 60

    Caffeine Anhydrous 200mg
    Synephrine HCL 20mg
    Octopamine HCL 150mg
    Tyramine HCL 25mg
    Yohimbe HCL 3mg
    Green Tea Extract 350mg [standardized for 220mg EGCG and 98% phenols]
    Synthetic Gugglesterones Z&E 20mg
    Bioperine 5mg

    Thats pretty close - Chizled has everything Lipo6 has and then some. If the quality of ingredients is the same then it should be an easy call. Thing is I have never even heard of Extreme Formulations before this. Notice they dont say the percentage of the Gugglesterones like Nutrex does. I dont know if it matters much.
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    Hmm, it seems the formulation for the liquid caps is different than for the regular. I have been seeing different ingredients on various sites. Unless the formula has changed and certain sites are outdated.

    Lipo6 Non Liquid: 120 caps
    Serving Size: 2 capsules
    Servings Per Container: 60

    Citrus aurantium (synephrine 6% N-methyl tyramine 0.9-1.6% tyramine 0.2-0.4% hordenine 0.2-0.4% octopamine 0.2-0.4%) 335 mg **%
    Caffeine anhydrous USP 200 mg **%
    Yohimbine HCL 5 mg **%
    Coleus forskohlii (standardized to 20% Forskolin) 100 mg **%
    Carnitrex 100 mg **%
    Bioperine 5 mg **%

    .-= UPDATE =-.
    I looked it up, thats just the old (non liquid) formula. All the new Lipo6 produced are now liquid caps and the formula is the same as listed in first post.

    As i said, I havent been paying any attention to fat burners or any supplements for a while. This might be common knowledge to everyone else
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    Clen yes, but only works well for 2-3 weeks. You'd have to switch to some kinda ECA like supp for another 2-3 weeks after that. Those products are really new. For H.E.A.T. I know sawastea did a review here and at Avant Avant Labs' H.E.A.T. Log / Review , also there are a few more reviews at Avant's forum. I've never read a review on Chizled but I can tell you from the ingredients listed that it will kick ass, especially stacked with Vasopro. (and don't skimp out on the grapefruit )
    Supersoldier, your not referring to grapefruit juice are you? Also, what is the reccommended dosage for tyramine?
  

  
 

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