LipoDerm-Y vs Yohimburn

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    LipoDerm-Y vs Yohimburn


    Well, let me be very forthcoming.....I am a friend of Ulter and I do use Yohimburn. I was wondering whats the difference, if any.
    From what it looks like, these 2 products are very similar... with the exception of the price. Is there an advantage of either of these products over the other?

    Your Opinions
    TA

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    Originally posted by The Answer
    Well, let me be very forthcoming.....I am a friend of Ulter and I do use Yohimburn. I was wondering whats the difference, if any.
    From what it looks like, these 2 products are very similar... with the exception of the price. Is there an advantage of either of these products over the other?

    Your Opinions
    TA
     

    My understanding is that the formula used by avant labs might help yield a little better absorbtion, but I am not the tranny expert here.  This has been debated at other boards as well. 
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    I have asked it a couple times and the only reply I can get is that Lipo seems to dry the skin more than Y'burn. I can never get anyother difference. I was actually going to ask Ulter and Macro, but I thought before doing so I would see if a third-party had any insight.....

    Thanks
    TA
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    Lipoderm also contains 8oz and 6g of Yohimbe HCL. I think Yohimburn is half of that. Plus the delivery system is superior, in theory.
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    Wow, I have seen this debate many times, usually get svery ugly between Par and Ulter. Here is one of many links to one:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=61081

    This could be a good discussion here, just thought I'd give the readers some background info.

    Yohimburn Ingredients: 3500mg OF YOHIMBINE hcl,
    PURE ALOE VERA GEL, DISTILLED WATER, JAPANESE PEPPERMINT OIL and GLYCERIN.
    NO ALCOHOL

    Contains 4oz of Yohimburn.


    Yohimburn is formulated and manufactured in the USA with USA GRADE: USP24 Yohimbine hcl


    I guess we don't know the exact contents of lipogel, Chemo or Curt would want to check in here, or check this thread:

    http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...mp;threadid=26
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    Originally posted by jweave23
    Wow, I have seen this debate many times, usually get svery ugly between Par and Ulter. Here is one of many links to one:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=61081

    This could be a good discussion here, just thought I'd give the readers some background info.

    Yohimburn Ingredients: 3500mg OF YOHIMBINE hcl,
    PURE ALOE VERA GEL, DISTILLED WATER, JAPANESE PEPPERMINT OIL and GLYCERIN.
    NO ALCOHOL

    Contains 4oz of Yohimburn.


    Yohimburn is formulated and manufactured in the USA with USA GRADE: USP24 Yohimbine hcl


    I guess we don't know the exact contents of lipogel, Chemo or Curt would want to check in here, or check this thread:

    http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...mp;threadid=26
    Ah....the memories....
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    Originally posted by jweave23
    I guess we don't know the exact contents of lipogel, Chemo or Curt would want to check in here, or check this thread:
    The ingredient's of Lipoderm-Y are (from Avant's site):



    • benzyl alcohol
    • water
    • n-methyl-2-pyrrolidinone
    • glycerol
    • l-menthol
    • laurocapram
    • 6 grams of Yohimbine HCl per (8oz.) bottle
    • Carbomer 934


    Also, I would refer anyone interested in Par's reasoning why Lipoderm-Y utilizes a superior delivery system, to read Par's article from M&M #3:

    The Science of Topical Fat Loss
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    Nice, thanks ShadowJack. All I know is after reading many of their fights, my conclusion is this:

    If I'm going to buy one premade, it'll be Lipoderm (which I have used before actually). It seems to have better science behind the delivery method, and quite honestly I can't stand Ulter or AF (my opinion)

    If I'm homebrewing, I'll check the above mentioned thread in R&D, and go from there.
    Last edited by jweave23; 01-30-2003 at 02:09 AM.
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    Thanks for the info guys. I respect everyones personal opinions. Thanks for sharing.

    Much Appreciated
    TA
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    I read a study that actually pointed to the possiblity that using such prodcuts could ultimately lead to greater fat gain in those areas. Study had some flaws but it was interesting in relation to A2 receptors
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    If you have or find it again, post that sucka. I'd like to read that.
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    I think nandi12 psoted it over at cuttingedgemuslce. i will look for it though.
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    Originally posted by size
    I think nandi12 psoted it over at cuttingedgemuslce.
    Here is a cut-and-paste of a study regarding topical fat burners, posted by Nandi12 at cuttingedgemuscle:

    I would not expect much in the way of results from topical yohimbine. In one relatively recent study that compared the effects of several topical fat burners, everything worked EXCEPT yohimbine:

    "All trials except yohimbine ointment gave significantly more girth loss from the treated thigh (p < 0.05 to p < 0.001)" (1)

    However another trial did show that yohimbine helped to burn fat (2). Interestingly both trials were conducted by the same researcher. So the scientific basis for the claims that topical yohimbine burns is not strong.

    Regarding estrogen and fat, in hamsters estrogen upregulates alpha 2 receptors (3) leading to reduced fat burning, but in humans estrogen downregulates lipoprotein lipase ( the major fat accumulating enzyme ) activity in fat cells and is thought to be a fat burning agent (4), with progesterone being responsible for fat accumulation in women's hips and thighs.


    (1) Obes Res 1995 Nov;3 Suppl 4:561S-568S

    Topical fat reduction.

    Greenway FL, Bray GA, Heber D.

    Department of Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine, Torrance, CA, USA.

    (2) Clin Ther 1987;9(6):663-9 Related Articles, Links

    Regional fat loss from the thigh in obese women after adrenergic modulation.

    Greenway FL, Bray GA.

    Department of Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine.


    (3) Endocrinology 1986 Jun;118(6):2210-6

    Estradiol treatment decreases the lipolytic responses of hamster white adipocytes through a reduction in the activity of the adenylate cyclase catalytic subunit.

    Pecquery R, Leneveu MC, Giudicelli Y.


    (4) Am J Obstet Gynecol 1998 Jan;178(1 Pt 1):101-7

    Estrogen regulation of adipose tissue lipoprotein lipase--possible mechanism of body fat distribution.

    Price TM, O'Brien SN, Welter BH, George R, Anandjiwala J, Kilgore M.

    Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Greenville Hospital System, SC 29605, USA.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Link to the thread: Yohimburn thread at Cuttingedgemuscle
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    Here is the 2nd study posted by Nandi12 in the above mentioned thread, regarding upregulating alpha 2 receptors in platelets:

    You got me wondering, GettngSwole, if constant exposure to yohimbine could upregulate alpha 2 adrenergic receptors in fat cells, making fat burning more difficult. I did a quick search, and found that this effect has been studied in platelets, and indeed alpha 2 blockade ( this is what yohimbine does ) does upregulate those receptors.

    This could potentially be red flag regarding topical yohimbine use. I'll see if I can find similar studies in fat cells.


    Life Sci 1991;49(8):PL21-5

    Effects of chronic alpha 2-adrenoceptor blockade on platelet and lymphocyte adrenoceptor binding in normal volunteers.

    Glue P, Payvandi N, Kay G, Elliott JM, Nutt DJ.

    Reckitt and Colman Psychopharmacology Unit, School of Medical Sciences, Bristol, UK.

    Platelet and lymphocyte adrenoceptor binding was measured in 12 healthy male volunteers before and after 22 days treatment with the alpha 2-adrenoceptor antagonist idazoxan 40 mg tds. Platelet alpha 2-adrenoceptor number assessed by the agonist 3H-UK 14304 [correction of UK 14303] was significantly increased following idazoxan, with a smaller increase in antagonist binding (3H-rauwolscine). Lymphocyte beta-adrenoceptor number was unaltered by idazoxan, although the variance within the sample was significantly increased. Plasma MHPG levels were significantly reduced by chronic idazoxan. These data indicate upregulation of the platelet alpha 2-adrenoceptor in response to chronic blockade and suggest that this may reflect a similar change in presynaptic alpha 2-adrenoceptors which regulate norepinephrine release.

    PS Monkeyballs. I just saw your post above. THIS is probably the abstract that would generate a firestorm at Elite
    Link to the thread: Yohimburn at Cuttingedgemuscle
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    i have used a bottle of avant lipo-y. at the time i was 170 ish about 9-10% body fat. i was pretty well defined , but i had some stubborn fat on the lateral portions of my pecs. i thought i was the perfect canidate. no need to measure, i could see what i needed to lose. so i did one bottle it lasted me 3 weeks or so. i was on a maintenance diet maybe slight cutting. but anyways i didnt see a damn thing. now i understand you need to be on a calorie deprived diet for this to apparently work. but cmon i had hardly anyfat to lose. and if im on a calorie deprived diet, im gonna lose that fat anyways. so as you can guess, im totally against this type of product. i dont buy into the science of it, i think its hogwash. i just think anybody who takes this product and see any gains (fat loss) its due only to the improved diet and cardio. peace
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    Originally posted by institutional
    i have used a bottle of avant lipo-y. at the time i was 170 ish about 9-10% body fat. i was pretty well defined , but i had some stubborn fat on the lateral portions of my pecs. i thought i was the perfect canidate. no need to measure, i could see what i needed to lose. so i did one bottle it lasted me 3 weeks or so. i was on a maintenance diet maybe slight cutting. but anyways i didnt see a damn thing. now i understand you need to be on a calorie deprived diet for this to apparently work. but cmon i had hardly anyfat to lose. and if im on a calorie deprived diet, im gonna lose that fat anyways. so as you can guess, im totally against this type of product. i dont buy into the science of it, i think its hogwash. i just think anybody who takes this product and see any gains (fat loss) its due only to the improved diet and cardio. peace
    A maintenance or slight caloric deficiet isn't going to do. You already has this debate at bb.com in which you didn't understand why Lipoderm would only work on a caloric deficit (not near maintenence) and from you what you explain I wouldn't expect to see much change in you anyway. As for your conclusions there based on opinion from someone who didn't follow the recommendations of the people who used it. THat info might not be available on the bottle but its very well known amongst most boards. I have several people including myself and my GF who had stubborn fat deposits around her thighs that just wouldn't go away even after extreme dieting(and she has a 6-pack). After 2 bottles of use she has significant loss in those areas whereas before she never could get rid of it. I've used it myself at low bf% and it worked well, especially late in a cutting cycle where burning any type of fat is extremely difficult. Numerous people have used this late in cutting cycles where fat deposits that wouldn't go away before, dissapeared. For the most part people that have not had good results were not dieting properly. I would love for one of the developers of any yohimbe product to look at those studies and give their opinion. For the most part the science is just theory but makes a strong case (at least Par's article does). As for real world results people who've used it and dieted properly with it, have seen nice results.


    For thos interested, here's the article that Par wrote concerning topical fat loss. It's funny because some of those studies posted above are at the end of the artilce used as references.

    http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/ma...D=15&issueID=3
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    i have heard positive and negative feedback on lipo myself. but i just wanted to give my input to people who may not have heard it before.
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    Originally posted by institutional
    i have heard positive and negative feedback on lipo myself. but i just wanted to give my input to people who may not have heard it before.
    I got ya. I appreciate that too. Its good to see all sides.
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    Originally posted by ShadowJack


    Here is a cut-and-paste of a study regarding topical fat burners, posted by Nandi12 at cuttingedgemuscle:
    [/URL]
    Couple of things I noticed right off the bat:

    1. Girth loss was measured, not actual fat loss.

    2. It should be no big suprise that no girth loss was measured with Yohimbine, given its water retaining tendency.
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    Originally posted by ShadowJack
    Here is the 2nd study posted by Nandi12 in the above mentioned thread, regarding upregulating alpha 2 receptors in platelets:
    1. The upregulation is probably temporary.

    2. If calories are below maintenance, this is probably of little significance anyway.
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    what about adding yohimbine to your t1-pro--is that do-able--or a good idea?
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    Good question spike. I have have been interested in what people think of using two transdermals. Clearly we would need to apply them in different areas for starters. Off the top of my head, I think this would be fine but I am not 100% sure.
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    BDC--is that becasue the best place to put a ph transdermal where there is less fat, and becauuse a yohimbine transdermal would be be(obviously) better on fat.

    to everyone else-- sorry to ask on a topic that kind of stretches the thread
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    Well, Im not BDC, but I can answer. Yes, you generally want to apply PH/PS transdermals to thinner areas of skin to maximaize absorbtion into the blood stream. Yohimbine transdermal is inteded to localize fat loss, so clearly, you wouldn't apply it on your forearms, well, unless you had some chunky forearms .

    WYD
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