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New JACK3D flavor: Grape Bubblegum

  1.  06-22-2010  09:49 PM
    Registered User fidget324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Not likely, as the current methylxanthine complex more than compensates for theophylline. Besides, theophylline is a secondary caffeine metabolite.
    Hmmmm.... You're talking like caffeine and theophylline are more similar than they actually are. First off, theophylline is a secondary metabolite of caffeine, but only in a tiny ratio. When caffeine metabolizes, it only yields 4% theophylline. I believe that the current Jack3d has 100mg caffeine per scoop (not sure on that one but I'm at least pretty close) so that means that for each scoop, you only get 4mg theophylline, and even 12mg from three scoops is not enough for theophylline to have a prominent effect.

    Second, theophylline has a different mechanism than caffeine. Both increase cardiac function, but caffeine has most of its impact on the central nervous system, whereas theophylline targets the respiratory system. For this reason, it is a common ingredient in asthma medications because it is a powerful bronchodilator.

    To get a bit less specific... let me share my own experience. I noticed some changes in Jack3d's effect on me as soon as I bought my first refined batch last December. Overall I would have to say that the total amount of energy is the same, but now I experience more jitters. In other words, it seems like less of a "clean" energy boost, probably because more of the stimulant formula targets the CNS. And the change is most definitely not due to tolerance. I'm certain to leave 4 full weeks completely stim-free between cycles.

    Anyhow, I do miss the old formula, but the new one for my money is still be best thing out there. Cheap, concise, mixes well, tastes good, overall a great product, which is why so many new preworkouts are pretty much just variations of the Jack3d formula.

    Even if theophylline doesn't come back, I would still like to see another reformation in the near future. The arginine really doesn't belong... Ironically enough Gaspari sponsored a study comparing arginine to placebo and found that arginine makes absolutely no difference in muscle size, strength, and body fat over time. It really is an outdated ingredient. A while ago I criticized some for bragging about GPLC, and someone from primordial linked me to a study showing the clear benefits of GPLC. I would much rather see that in the formula than arginine, and I think most others would agree.



  2.  06-28-2010  05:40 AM
    Registered User strategicmove's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fidget324 View Post
    Hmmmm.... You're talking like caffeine and theophylline are more similar than they actually are. First off, theophylline is a secondary metabolite of caffeine, but only in a tiny ratio. When caffeine metabolizes, it only yields 4% theophylline. I believe that the current Jack3d has 100mg caffeine per scoop (not sure on that one but I'm at least pretty close) so that means that for each scoop, you only get 4mg theophylline, and even 12mg from three scoops is not enough for theophylline to have a prominent effect.

    Second, theophylline has a different mechanism than caffeine. Both increase cardiac function, but caffeine has most of its impact on the central nervous system, whereas theophylline targets the respiratory system. For this reason, it is a common ingredient in asthma medications because it is a powerful bronchodilator.

    To get a bit less specific... let me share my own experience. I noticed some changes in Jack3d's effect on me as soon as I bought my first refined batch last December. Overall I would have to say that the total amount of energy is the same, but now I experience more jitters. In other words, it seems like less of a "clean" energy boost, probably because more of the stimulant formula targets the CNS. And the change is most definitely not due to tolerance. I'm certain to leave 4 full weeks completely stim-free between cycles.

    Anyhow, I do miss the old formula, but the new one for my money is still be best thing out there. Cheap, concise, mixes well, tastes good, overall a great product, which is why so many new preworkouts are pretty much just variations of the Jack3d formula.

    Even if theophylline doesn't come back, I would still like to see another reformation in the near future. The arginine really doesn't belong... Ironically enough Gaspari sponsored a study comparing arginine to placebo and found that arginine makes absolutely no difference in muscle size, strength, and body fat over time. It really is an outdated ingredient. A while ago I criticized some for bragging about GPLC, and someone from primordial linked me to a study showing the clear benefits of GPLC. I would much rather see that in the formula than arginine, and I think most others would agree.
    The caffeine-theophylline similarity was your preferred interpretation. I originally did not want to post a long response, but I have to do so now, in order to put a few things into proper perspective.

    Theophylline was originally part of Jack3d's methylxanthine complex that, apart from the synergistic interaction with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine, collectively exerted effects related to competitive inhibition of cAMP degradation, dose-dependent phosphodiesterase (especially PDE4) inhitition, CNS stimulation (enhanced cortical arousal accompanied by greater focus and delayed fatigue), dose-dependent bronchodilation and improved ventilatory reaction in hypoxic conditions, to name a few. The capacity to induce these effects is shared by methylxantines to different extents. As a consequence, the elimination of theophylline from the blend did not result in any decipherable loss in formula potency, especially given its original per-scoop amount. That was my intenden point!

    Put differently, methylxanthines (caffeine, theobromine, and theophylline), under certain circumstances, deliver synergistic effects. Yet, they are not equally important in every application. Theophylline certainly played a role in the original formula. However, testing revealed that the formula without it produced comparable results, especially because caffeine alone still demonstrated considerable synergistic action with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine.

    So, due to the small amount of theophylline originally used, coupled with the fact that caffeine, following its synergistic interaction with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine, could exert comparable effects in the formula without theophylline, the elimination of theophylline was not at the expense of formula potency.

    In any case, because theophylline exerts bronchodilatory effects as the major therapeutic action in asthmatic conditions, only users with an asthma condition might have noticed a difference (in a neutral sense) between the old and new formulas. From our point of view, however, there should be no difference in effectiveness of the versions, and the current formula is better.

    The tests we conducted prior to the removal of theophylline did not suggest any reduction in effectiveness. On the contrary, the product was rated as just as effective, or even better, than the theophylline version. This feedback also reflected our original expectation regarding the formula improvements. In particular, the amounts of arginine alpha ketoglutarate (AAKG) and beta-alanine were increased after the first run to ensure users obtained adequate amounts of these agents from two scoops, rather than three scoops as in the original formula. This made Jack3d even more potent. Subsequently, the methylxanthine, theophylline, was removed, especially to avoid any potential conflicts with the FDA. The synergistic interaction between caffeine and geranium, however, ensured that this formula change was not accompanied by any loss in potency. Furthermore, with the removal of theophylline, the amounts of creatine and schisandrol A were increased, ensuring the delivery of an even better product overall.
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    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.

  3.  06-28-2010  06:50 AM
    Controlled Labs Representative AE14's Avatar
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    sounds quite tasty
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  4.  06-29-2010  09:59 PM
    Registered User hoopem6's Avatar
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    NutraPlanet update: "In Stock Now!"

    JACK3D - Grape Bubblegum

  5.  06-29-2010  10:04 PM
    Registered User purebred's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    The caffeine-theophylline similarity was your preferred interpretation. I originally did not want to post a long response, but I have to do so now, in order to put a few things into proper perspective.

    Theophylline was originally part of Jack3d's methylxanthine complex that, apart from the synergistic interaction with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine, collectively exerted effects related to competitive inhibition of cAMP degradation, dose-dependent phosphodiesterase (especially PDE4) inhitition, CNS stimulation (enhanced cortical arousal accompanied by greater focus and delayed fatigue), dose-dependent bronchodilation and improved ventilatory reaction in hypoxic conditions, to name a few. The capacity to induce these effects is shared by methylxantines to different extents. As a consequence, the elimination of theophylline from the blend did not result in any decipherable loss in formula potency, especially given its original per-scoop amount. That was my intenden point!

    Put differently, methylxanthines (caffeine, theobromine, and theophylline), under certain circumstances, deliver synergistic effects. Yet, they are not equally important in every application. Theophylline certainly played a role in the original formula. However, testing revealed that the formula without it produced comparable results, especially because caffeine alone still demonstrated considerable synergistic action with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine.

    So, due to the small amount of theophylline originally used, coupled with the fact that caffeine, following its synergistic interaction with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine, could exert comparable effects in the formula without theophylline, the elimination of theophylline was not at the expense of formula potency.

    In any case, because theophylline exerts bronchodilatory effects as the major therapeutic action in asthmatic conditions, only users with an asthma condition might have noticed a difference (in a neutral sense) between the old and new formulas. From our point of view, however, there should be no difference in effectiveness of the versions, and the current formula is better.

    The tests we conducted prior to the removal of theophylline did not suggest any reduction in effectiveness. On the contrary, the product was rated as just as effective, or even better, than the theophylline version. This feedback also reflected our original expectation regarding the formula improvements. In particular, the amounts of arginine alpha ketoglutarate (AAKG) and beta-alanine were increased after the first run to ensure users obtained adequate amounts of these agents from two scoops, rather than three scoops as in the original formula. This made Jack3d even more potent. Subsequently, the methylxanthine, theophylline, was removed, especially to avoid any potential conflicts with the FDA. The synergistic interaction between caffeine and geranium, however, ensured that this formula change was not accompanied by any loss in potency. Furthermore, with the removal of theophylline, the amounts of creatine and schisandrol A were increased, ensuring the delivery of an even better product overall.
    Interesting read to say the least. These tests you mentioned: peer-reviewed published clinical trials or tests ran in the USP Labs facilities?

  6.  06-30-2010  01:05 AM
    Registered User djbombsquad's Avatar
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    Swap out arginine for gplc. Arginine is old news .

  7.  06-30-2010  11:00 AM
    Registered User purebred's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Swap out arginine for gplc. Arginine is old news .
    Interesting you would say that. I was actually thinking about that as I was re-reading strategicmove's post. It's amazing arginine is still being marketed as an NO booster. GPLC is far much more effective. At best, I thought it was established arginine was useful for vanity purposes.

  8.  06-30-2010  11:49 AM
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    Arginine maybe for GH at night with gaba and other things but not as a no booster. Eventually every one will start to use nitrates and gplc. NItrates like in power shock works well too. The combo I will be using is pre surge unleashed pre workout and power shock mid work out for the 1-2 NO nockout.

  9.  06-30-2010  11:58 AM
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    A new flavor O_O I only had the original Jack3d. I may need to order another tub for this great taste

  10.  06-30-2010  01:08 PM
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    Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Swap out arginine for gplc. Arginine is old news .
    there is no way thats possible, you obviously dont know how much $ GPLC raws are... unless you want 1mg doses . There is no way Jacked could use this ingredient at an effective dose and keep its current price.
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  11.  06-30-2010  02:26 PM
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    Originally Posted by iForce Dave View Post
    there is no way thats possible, you obviously dont know how much $ GPLC raws are... unless you want 1mg doses . There is no way Jacked could use this ingredient at an effective dose and keep its current price.
    Isn't AEN doing it right now? PreSurge Unleashed is not much higher in price than Jack3d and the nutritional profile of PSU is far superior to Jack3d. Not knocking USP Labs' product--it's great in its own unique way.

  12.  07-01-2010  02:59 PM
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    Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    Isn't AEN doing it right now? PreSurge Unleashed is not much higher in price than Jack3d and the nutritional profile of PSU is far superior to Jack3d. Not knocking USP Labs' product--it's great in its own unique way.
    I got pre surge unleashed for 30 bucks. I think for 4 dollars more and what you get its not bad. You just need to by BA but thats fairly cheep. It was on sale the other day for 26 dollars. which makes it 2 dollars more only.

  13.  07-01-2010  03:00 PM
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    PSU has every thing but Shizandrol A thats it. They said Shizandrol A I think was okay but not enough to impact there product and make it that much better. I still am currently using jacked finishing up my bottle. I have both old and new and new flavor too.

  14.  07-01-2010  03:04 PM
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    Originally Posted by iForce Dave View Post
    there is no way thats possible, you obviously dont know how much $ GPLC raws are... unless you want 1mg doses . There is no way Jacked could use this ingredient at an effective dose and keep its current price.
    I do. I know both kilo prices and the other price. We are talking about usplabs claiming that arginine will give you pumps. Lifting heavy willl give you pumps. Stretching after my chest work out with the cross over cables gives my chest a pump. If im lifting heavier due to usplabs jacked and there for getting a pump thats not because arginine gave me a pump that is most likely the stims making me lift heaver giving me pumps. I know the guy from Sigama tau and I got prices so I know bulk price and guess what? Id rather pay few dollars more for a scientifically proven ON increase. Okay, so the studies showed 30% increase vs 6000% nano x9 claims from muscle tech but nano x9 too is arginine so to me 30% seems more realistic.

  15.  07-01-2010  03:13 PM
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    PreSurge™ Unleashed Blend- 3,448mg
    Muscle Growth Primer/Cell Volumizing Complex™
    Creapure®(Creatine Monohydrate), Taurine, Glycine, Russian Tarragon Extract (Artemisia Dracunculus L)
    Vascularity Nitric Oxide Complex™
    GlycoCarn™ (Glycine Propionyl-L-Carnitine Hydrochloride), Epimedium (Standardized For 40% Icariin), Alpha Lipoic Acid, Grape Seed Extract (85% OPC), Folic Acid
    Extreme Intensity/MentalEdge Complex™
    L-Tyrosine, Trimethylglycine, Caffeine Anhydrous - [125mg], DL-Phenylalanine, B-Phenylethylamine HCL, Neuravena™ (Wild Green Oat Extract), Cocoa Extract (Theobromine), Evodia Rutaecarpa (Evodiamine), Suntheanine™ (L-Theanine), 1,3-Dimethylamylamine HCL (Geranium)

    Jacked 3d Proprietary Blend 4145mg *
    (Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate, Creatine Monohydrate, Beta Alanine, Caffeine, 1,3-Dimethylamylamine (Geranium [Stem], Shizandrol A)


    So hears what I was thinkig 1 scoop of jacked 1 scoop of PSU. There. Problem solved.

  16.  07-01-2010  05:03 PM
    Registered User borobulker's Avatar
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    Nothing against any product... but personally, GPLC makes me feel like death.
    \\ USPlabs Alpha Ginger //

  17.  07-01-2010  09:04 PM
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    Carnitine makes you feel like crap? So you dont eat meat? Meat has high amounts in it.

  18.  07-02-2010  10:11 AM
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    Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Carnitine makes you feel like crap? So you dont eat meat? Meat has high amounts in it.
    hahaha exactly! You caught my vegetarian ass red-handed!
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  19.  07-02-2010  10:13 AM
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    Yeah, boro is a closet vegan - you just outed him, bro.

  20.  07-02-2010  01:45 PM
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    I'm just saying If you meet or even a minos you should be fine. Carnitine is a quaternary ammonium compound biosynthesized from the amino acids lysine and methionine. Are you having any trouble with those amino acids too?

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