Had a revelation / need advice

[skrypt]

Community,

I had a revelation the other day, and I'm going to tell you about it. I've never been the type to continuously cycle expensive stacks, but I've spent enough money on them. I have done two H-drol cycles, but have since decided I do not want to touch anything hormonal. My revelation is I'm sick of spending a substantial amount of money on supplements, as I would rather spend it on more important things like food and females. I'm going to of course keep my stables, a pre-workout (I do very intense workouts that can easily last two hours, I need something thats going to give me pumps, energy, and focus), then possibly add a supplement. I don't want to spend around 150$ for two-three supplements every month, but I think I can rationalize spending 30-40$.

Here are my staples:
Animal Pack multi-vitamin: Has been my staple for a few years now, if you believe you know of something better, let me know.
100% Whey Protein: I've always been an ON guy, but may switch to Dynamatize given the price difference
Fish-oil
Primordial Performance Creapure

Now, I'm going to keep a pre-workout for the above mentioned. I'm probably going to try Jack3d because of all the positive reviews, but will probably cycle it with maybe NO Shotgun, then PP pre-max or Ultima by Omega for a stim-free boost. Please let me know if you like this plan.

Then, I'm thinking I want to throw in one more supplement, probably a natural test booster. Does anything work well as a stand-alone? Right now I'm reviewing PowerFULL, PP Phyto-test, TestPRO, Bio Forge, Activate Xtreme, but it seems everyone stacks these with a few other supplements, so I'm not sure how they work as a standalone. I by no means am deadset on choosing something from the above list, so if you have a better suggestion that will fit into my attempting-not-to-break-the-bank plan, please let me know.

Thank you in advance for advice, it is much appreciated.

 

[Jeremy Brown]

i would check out Diesel Test Hard Core, ive been using it as a natty test booster on and off for over a year now both as a standalone and as part of PCTs (using it right now on an M-drol PCT and my strength is still climbing in week 2 of PCT). i have dosed it as low as 2 and 3 caps per day and at that dosage the bottle lasts for a very reasonable amount of time. it is recommended that it be cycled 5 or 6 days on followed by one day off (i have also run a 2 on 1 off dosage) which lengthens the bottle out nicely.

 

[Deeerdre]

I'd rather spend my money on supps then girls. Just have the girls pay for everything , and u get to keep buying supps

 

[poison]

Multi - orange triad instead of animal
Protein - dymatize elite gourmet protein $55 for 10lbs
Pre-workout - whatever floats your boat. I like ragNOrok, Clout, White Flood, and RPM.
Test booster - i'd say testopro or primal male as stand alone would be great.

 

[BigBeazy]

I'd rather spend my money on supps then girls. Just have the girls pay for everything , and u get to keep buying supps

Lol Ladies man right here *Cough*

Anyways, try this:
Nutrapro 5lb: $30 (Elite is 32-ish and not as good)
N.O. Ignite: $20 (Jacked is 30)
Or Anadraulic Pump: $22.49 (Better than Jacked, hangs with N.O. Ignite)
Also Anadraulic State GT: $22.49 (Helps block Estrogen, promotes some T ect.)

Animal got a little to expensive for me, I want some of the Orange Triad on sale, or those ADAM Multi's for like ten bucks.

I heard nothing but great things from that creapure, Just it costs over ten dollars for PP to ship it to you. That's why i havent tried it, i'll stick to my Nutra 5 dollar shipping.

 

[bound]

Honestly, you're 24, and I doubt that a test booster is going to do all that much for you, unless your levels are on the low side. I'll be back with an alternative suggestion when I come up with one. I've come to the opposite conclusion as you, I think most supplements aren't worth the price, especially most test boosters, and am sticking to hormonals and their ancillaries.

Edit: is d-aspartic acid too hormonal? cause bulk DAA and bulk 1-carboxy would make a cheap effective stack. Just need to throw in a cheap AI.

 

[skrypt]

Thanks all for the great responses; I'm going to do some homework then make a decision. I'd assume that it's important to cycle even pre-workout supplements so your body does not become too used to one particular substance; how often do you change your stack up? I'm probably going to make a "dream sheet" of three or so different stacks and just alternate.

Honestly, you're 24, and I doubt that a test booster is going to do all that much for you, unless your levels are on the low side. I'll be back with an alternative suggestion when I come up with one. I've come to the opposite conclusion as you, I think most supplements aren't worth the price, especially most test boosters, and am sticking to hormonals and their ancillaries.

Edit: is d-aspartic acid too hormonal? cause bulk DAA and bulk 1-carboxy would make a cheap effective stack. Just need to throw in a cheap AI.

Bound: I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. I too believe most supplements are all hype, which is why I've decided to quit spending tons of $$ on them. The only place where we differ is I've decided I want to stay away from anything hormonal. No one knows what they're going to do to the body long term, and when I ran my h-drol cycles, my knees got so sore I could not run, which is unacceptable for my training.

That said, I am not deadset on adding a Test booster, I suppose I just offered up that idea because it seems to be what everyone cycles that isn't using ph's; so I'm open to any and all alternatives. As for the d-aspartic, I really don't know enough about it to give an opinion other than what I just read off nutraplanet, care to enlighten me?

 

[gamer2be08]

I'd rather spend my money on supps then girls. Just have the girls pay for everything , and u get to keep buying supps

There ya go ^^^

 

[bound]

Best I can do on the DAA front is to direct you to this thread:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/140883-3-grams-d.html

There's a couple more about, too...

 

[skrypt]

Thanks bound, I'll start reading up.

On that note, are there any supplements that are not hormonal or a Natural Test booster that are worth exploring?

I suppose I'm looking for any sort of pre-workout + something else not hormonal combo

 

[bound]

My favorite stack ever is creatine mono, beta-alanine, and citruline malate. If you get it in bulk at nutra, it's pretty economical. Great boost in strength and overall stamina. THere's few things that I've noticed a big effect from,outside of various stims, and nothing comes close to this stack.

I dose it 5gr mono e/d, 5gr BA e/d, and 6gr CM pre-workout, though some people dose it everyday.

 

[jcr1]

Thats the kind of world i wanna live in one day.

 

[skrypt]

Thanks for the help guys. I think I've found a few stacks that I'm going to alternate. I like the Jack3d and possibly PowerFULL, ASGT and Andraulic Pump. However, I really want to speak to the bulk stack that bound mentioned (sorry for picking your brain).

As for dosage, I'm thinking about making a pre-workout ****tail (30 mins prior?) of Purple Wraath, 5g Beta-Alanine, 6g Citrulline Malate. Does this sound correct? And do I only need to dose the BA and CM once a day. Then, 5g creatine mono post-workout, or would this better be served pre?

FURTHERMORE, I have a question about CLA or possibly a Thermogenic. I'm not a bodybuilder; I'm an industrial athlete -- my workouts are generally total body, long, and intense. I'm around 10% bf, would adding a CLA to my staples help me to shed bf, would I also need to add Seasamin? Or should I just get something like VPX Meltdown? As for diet, I don't do a true bulk or true cut, I stick to the same amount of protein macro, and play with my fat and carb macros.

If anyone else has any suggestions for a pre-workout + something non-hormonal, I'm still open to ideas.

Thank you bound, any anyone else than can provide further insight.

EDIT: Sorry for the rather newb questions guys; it just seems as if the possibilities are endless, and I'm just trying to get the most bang for my buck and separate the worthwhile from the worthless.

 

[bound]

Thanks for the help guys. I think I've found a few stacks that I'm going to alternate. I like the Jack3d and possibly PowerFULL, ASGT and Andraulic Pump. However, I really want to speak to the bulk stack that bound mentioned (sorry for picking your brain).

As for dosage, I'm thinking about making a pre-workout ****tail (30 mins prior?) of Purple Wraath, 5g Beta-Alanine, 6g Citrulline Malate. Does this sound correct? And do I only need to dose the BA and CM once a day. Then, 5g creatine mono post-workout, or would this better be served pre?

[COLOR*********]The beta-alanine really should be taken every day, it needs to be built up in your system, you won't really feel the effects until maybe two weeks in. You'll likely need to split up the dose to two or three times a day, it both works better, and you'll avoid the tingly flush sensation. Some folks enjoy the flush, others find it uncomfortable.[/COLOR]

FURTHERMORE, I have a question about CLA or possibly a Thermogenic. I'm not a bodybuilder; I'm an industrial athlete -- my workouts are generally total body, long, and intense. I'm around 10% bf, would adding a CLA to my staples help me to shed bf, would I also need to add Seasamin? Or should I just get something like VPX Meltdown? As for diet, I don't do a true bulk or true cut, I stick to the same amount of protein macro, and play with my fat and carb macros.

I don't know too much about CLA, I've heard good things mostly, though. There is something about combining it with sesamin, I foget if it a good combo or a bad one, though. I WAS a huge fan of Meltdown, the shots, not the pill, but they just recently changed the formula, and it isn't nearly what it was. I don't know if they changed the pill form. If you can find it, Stacker makes something called a 7-phenyl stack that's very good and similar to the old Meltdown.


If anyone else has any suggestions for a pre-workout + something non-hormonal, I'm still open to ideas.

Thank you bound, any anyone else than can provide further insight.

Feel free to pick my brain, I love talking shop.

EDIT: Sorry for the rather newb questions guys; it just seems as if the possibilities are endless, and I'm just trying to get the most bang for my buck and separate the worthwhile from the worthless.

....

 

[monstermash]

Community,

I had a revelation the other day, and I'm going to tell you about it. I've never been the type to continuously cycle expensive stacks, but I've spent enough money on them. I have done two H-drol cycles, but have since decided I do not want to touch anything hormonal. My revelation is I'm sick of spending a substantial amount of money on supplements, as I would rather spend it on more important things like food and females. I'm going to of course keep my stables, a pre-workout (I do very intense workouts that can easily last two hours, I need something thats going to give me pumps, energy, and focus), then possibly add a supplement. I don't want to spend around 150$ for two-three supplements every month, but I think I can rationalize spending 30-40$.

Here are my staples:
Animal Pack multi-vitamin: Has been my staple for a few years now, if you believe you know of something better, let me know.
100% Whey Protein: I've always been an ON guy, but may switch to Dynamatize given the price difference
Fish-oil
Primordial Performance Creapure

Now, I'm going to keep a pre-workout for the above mentioned. I'm probably going to try Jack3d because of all the positive reviews, but will probably cycle it with maybe NO Shotgun, then PP pre-max or Ultima by Omega for a stim-free boost. Please let me know if you like this plan.

Then, I'm thinking I want to throw in one more supplement, probably a natural test booster. Does anything work well as a stand-alone? Right now I'm reviewing PowerFULL, PP Phyto-test, TestPRO, Bio Forge, Activate Xtreme, but it seems everyone stacks these with a few other supplements, so I'm not sure how they work as a standalone. I by no means am deadset on choosing something from the above list, so if you have a better suggestion that will fit into my attempting-not-to-break-the-bank plan, please let me know.

Thank you in advance for advice, it is much appreciated.

Get maximize V2 while it's 19.99
NutraPro for 30 is better than ON IMHO
Creapure and fish are good 2 go
Consider Gaspari Anavite for your multi - it has full doses of L-carnitine L-tartate and beta-alanine.

A testbooster isn't a good buy for your age but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Young Gotti]

for awhile i was using testopro only stacked with glycobol, using jack3d as my preworkout, after only 7 or so days my strength went way up...now i can't say it was just the testopro by itself but i do see you mentioned it....i've since added stoked! to the lineup but i think testopro would be a nice addition to your staples and a hard training regime and good diet

 

[iForce Dave]

Get maximize V2 while it's 19.99
NutraPro for 30 is better than ON IMHO
Creapure and fish are good 2 go
Consider Gaspari Anavite for your multi - it has full doses of L-carnitine L-tartate and beta-alanine.

A testbooster isn't a good buy for your age but that's just my 2 cents.

THIS ^

but dont get a fruit flavored NP protein i hear its gnar

and I would get NOW's ADAM multi, I think its the best for the price

 

[Young Gotti]

THIS ^

but dont get a fruit flavored NP protein i hear its gnar

and I would get NOW's ADAM multi, I think its the best for the price

I second the Now's ADAM multi....very good stuff

 

[Resolve]

Why do your workouts last 2+ hours? And what constitutes "VERY intense," in your opinion?

 

[skrypt]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys; it really is much appreciated!

bound: Sorry I'm going to ask some rather dumb questions, but I'm meticulous, and like to know I'm doing things perfectly. So I should break up the 5g BA daily into a few servings, rather than taking it all pre-workout? Other than that, did the Purple Wraath, 6g CA, and BA 30 mins prior to workout and 5g creatine mono post sound correct? Also, I hope this doesn't sound rude because that is not me intention, but if this stack is so worthwhile (not to mention dirt cheap), why ever leave it?

Resolve: Good question! As I mentioned earlier, I'm not a bodybuilder, so you guys are probably trying to figure out what the hell I am doing. I graduated from a military school, and am waiting to ship to the Navy to attend BUD/s (Navy SEAL initial training). My workouts usually consist of a heavy, low rep compound movement, followed by a few metabolic conditioning workouts (work capacity), followed by a run and later a swim, all done with very high intensity. I train so that I can run fast, jump high, climb well, and lift heavy. In my arena, specialization is the enemy. If you want to check out my workouts, shoot me a PM, I would just post the website, but I'm afraid that may be against board rules? I would just post up an example of one of my workouts, but don't want to do that without posting a reference, as it is not my intellectual property.

Thanks to the newcomers to the thread for the advice! I've been thinking about this a lot lately. It was my intention when I started this thread to find a good pre-workout cycle and a muscle building supplement. The more I think about it, the only tried and true muscle building supplement is, in my opinion, creatine (please correct me if I'm wrong). I've tried a few test boosters solo, and never really noticed anything. I think you're right, and I don't need a test booster at my age, I guess I mentioned that because it seems to be the norm anymore (out of curiosity, at what age do test levels begin to drop and a need for a test booster become prevalent). I'm not saying they do not work, but it seems as though the norm is to run cycles of three or more supplements with a test booster to really maximize results, and that is sort of what I'm trying to avoid. The Maximize V2 sounds good, especially at that price. I've never tried a geranium product before, so I think I'll see if I'm a responder. As for Now ADAM, I used to take it three or so years ago, but once I read into the ingredients, it seemed to be geared towards older guys?

Also, if anyone could speak to CLA solo or with Seasamin it would be appreciated. Or if you believe I should just run a thermogenic (something that retains muscle) please met me know. As I mentioned earlier, I do plan on using Creatine, and I don't do a true bulk or true cut; I leave my protein macro where it is, and play with my fat and carb macros.

Anyway, I think my plan is starting to matriculate. Other than my staples, I'll use a pre-workout, then a muscle builder (creatine). Thanks again for all the help.

 

[intrepid]

BCAA's: 10g/day
Creatine mono: 5g/day
1-carboxy 1600mg/night on weekdays
Primaforce ZMA: 3 caps a night lasts three months
NOW Fenugreek: 2, 3, 4, 5 caps stepping up each week and taking a week off after 1mo.
Whey: up to you
White Flood: pre workout
Multivit of your choice

If you want a bare bones supp list, I would leave CLA out and probably Sesathin as well unless you really love it.

This lasts quite a while and is relatively cheap. Aside from the supps, 2hrs sounds unreasonable even if you were on H-drol. JMO

 

[skrypt]

thanks for the bar bones list, intrepid. I am intrigued to start brewing my own pre-workout drinks, but am not unwilling to purchase a solid product. I'm interested in the CLA and Seasamin for the bf% loss, would the CLA work solo for that? Also, could you speak a little to the 1-carboxy? Is it safe to stack etc?

 

[intrepid]

thanks for the bar bones list, intrepid. I am intrigued to start brewing my own pre-workout drinks, but am not unwilling to purchase a solid product. I'm interested in the CLA and Seasamin for the bf% loss, would the CLA work solo for that? Also, could you speak a little to the 1-carboxy? Is it safe to stack etc?

I've tried both and while I did notice a little something, the cost:benefit ratio was not there. Although they are not outrageous so a little experimenting could give you your answer.

1-carboxy is now a staple for me. I've found it helps with mood, sleep and slight increase in strength. I believe it is safe to stack but I wouldn't be using anymore products with L-dopa nor would I use if I had psychological issues related to dopamine(bipolar, depression, etc.) The weekend off it works well with me and I take an extended period off after two months.

 

[intrepid]

What I listed above costs about $130 but most of it will last months.

 

[oufinny]

My PWO suggestions - Anadraulic State GT, hands down the best I have ever tried. Jack3d is great, can't say anything about iForce products, but AS-GT is more than just stims and creatine. Also, you can't beat 45 servings for $23. A good idea would be to get AS-GT and Maximize V2, see which one you like better while they are cheap.

Multi-V suggestion - NOW Adam 120 pill bottle from NP, it is $17 and lasts 60 days. Best I have taken so far and I think the Animal Pak is actually overdosed in many of the ingredients. The Adam has a lot of trace minerals that you cannot easily get from food and that I like very much.

Cost effective supp - LG Ghenerate for sleep, recovery, and in many cases pumps before your workout. Should last you 10 weeks and is $30, find me something better or at that good a value.

Homebrew PWO - I played this game before and there is nothing wrong with it but you have to do a lot of work to mask the taste of ingredients; that is the reason I pay companies to do it for me! Also, there are such good values now available with adequate dosing that if you want to add extra creatine or beta alanine, you will get the extra benefit and still mask the tasted. Creapure and some beta alanine added to Anadraulic State seems like a sick idea... might have to do that myself!

 

[intrepid]

Homebrew PWO - I played this game before and there is nothing wrong with it but you have to do a lot of work to mask the taste of ingredients; that is the reason I pay companies to do it for me! Also, there are such good values now available with adequate dosing that if you want to add extra creatine or beta alanine, you will get the extra benefit and still mask the tasted. Creapure and some beta alanine added to Anadraulic State seems like a sick idea... might have to do that myself!

Completely agree. Just buy one of the best pre-made(Jacked, WF, RAG, AS-GT, etc).

 

[skrypt]

Decisions to be made! You guys do like to make me think and that's a good thing. The nice thing is, I have a good list put together if I want to go the homebrew route that includes: Beta-Alanine, Citrulline Malate, BCAA's (Xtend or Purple Wraath I actually have a supply of both), and possibly GlycoCarn-GPLC from Primordial Performance. Then dose 5g Creapure from Primordial Performance Post-workout (this is going to happen regardless).

I went ahead and ordered Maximize V2 earlier, as I could not pass up the sale -- and will use the Creapure with it.

The ASGT & Andraulic Pump is intriguing, especially at the price, so I may pick this up as well, but have not decided. Is Andraulic Pump necessary for this stack, and would the Creapure along with the ASGT be overkill? Also, would you recommend purchasing Beta-Alanine regardless of making a homebrew or not? I'd assume the doage would be 4g e/d split into two doses. Also, thanks for the LG Ghenerate and NO ignite recommendations; I wrote them down for future reference.

I also really like the sound of 1-carboxy as a staple. I don't sleep as well I I like, and who wouldn't mind strength gains and increased mood. My only question is, is it safe to use along with the above mentioned (I would use it only on weekdays as recomended) and does it come with some sort of measuring spoon? Do you need to cycle off of it, even with the 5/2 dosing schedule?

Here is what will definitely be purchased:
Dymatize Elite Gourmet Protein - Always been an ON guy, but I'm almost out, and the price is a lot better
NOW Adam - You guys sold me, plus a better price than Animal Paks
ZMA - price/pill ratio is good, plus who doesn't like better sleep
Maximize V2 - Already ordered; I couldn't pass up the deal
Primordial Performance Creapure - staple
Primordial Performance CLA - I already have some in stock, plus I would like to loose some bf%
1-carboxy (D-aspartic Acid) - this is a possibility, it will depend on your answers but it's intriguing.
Beta-Alanine - sounds like it should be a stable

Homebrew mix (not purchasing as of yet, but possibly for down the road):
Beta-Alanine - 4g e/d split into two doses?
Citrulline Malate - 6g e/d, 30 minutes pre-workout
Primordial Performance GlycoCarn-GPLC - (possibly)
BCAA's - either Purple Wraath or Xtend
Primordial Performance Creapure - 5g post-workout

Future stacks:
Anadraulic Pump - necessary?
ASGT
Primordial Performance Creapure - necessary?
LG GHenerate - ballin' on a budget
NO Ignite - ballin' on a budget
NOW Fenugreek - don't know enough about this to make a purchase

Thank you for all the help I've already received, and the additional help I'm sure I'll get. Reps inbound for bound, intrepid, and oufinny. I'll keep everyone posted on my final purchases. If there is enough interest, I may start a training log, use the above stacks mentioned, and see where that goes.

 

[skrypt]

bump for final thoughts!

 

[intrepid]

bump for final thoughts!

1-carboxy is not DAA. Also, dosing should start at 800mg and see how you react. The other stuff is up to you.

 

[dday39]

NOW Adam has some ZMA in it. I'd say it's the best Multi by a long shot. Orange Triad is just too expensive and I'm not into 6 per day.

 

[skrypt]

Yea I think I'm going to drop the ZMA since I've decided to go with NOW Adam. Besides that, does the dosing etc. look correct for everything else?

 

[Killerkanadia]

http://store.anabolicminds.com/product/dymatize/z-force-120-caps.html

Not a bad product for the price, will last a month if only dosed at night.

 

[bound]

skrypt, I'm not sure what I said, but I am usually on all three year round, with short breaks from all once in a while to lower tolerance. No offense taken.

 

[matthias7]

Formestane - it is hormonal but not a PH.

Natty test boosters IMO are useful PCT but don't do enough otherwise. Otherwise I'd look to either increase stamina MST Cordyceps, Creapure, citraline malate OR boost GH, dopamine = PowerFull, HGHUP, HGHPro, 1-carboxy etc... Either of those routes will maintain gains.

My view is that rather than do a massive supplement stack, use a supplement strategically and ensure its cycled against something else equally as useful.

 

[skrypt]

My view is that rather than do a massive supplement stack, use a supplement strategically and ensure its cycled against something else equally as useful.

Exactly. Thanks for the help gents. Right now I'm going to stick to a Pre-workout and Creapure and I'll start looking into a GH supplement.