Why is AM still on the arginine bandwagon?

Page 1 of 9 1236 ... Last
  1. Registered User
    iForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    338
    Rep Power
    226

    Why is AM still on the arginine bandwagon?


    I've been seeing a lot of arginine questions lately, and I'm a bit stumped as to why.

    Arginine has been proven to NOT raise NO levels in humans. It is completely worthless pre-wo in ANY form.



    Now don't get me wrong...arginine has it's place(gh release, insulin release), but it's before bed!!!

  2. Registered User
    khakiman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    69

    i think you answered your own question there
  3. Registered User
    iForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    338
    Rep Power
    226

    I don't believe so...every question about arginine I've seen have been regarding it's use pre-wo
    •   
       

  4. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    poison's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,904
    Rep Power
    37729

    I agree arginine is worthless from a size, strength, or performance standpoint. However, regardless of studies, it unequivically does make users look bigger and more vascular. You just can't debate that. No, it doesn't lower lactic acid or speed waste removel from the muscles, as some sources say. It's purely cosmetic. Whether that pump is from some insulin effect, gh effect, or otherwise, I have no idea.

    I don't look for it, but if a product I use has it, like RagNORok or rpm, well that's fine, I'll enjoy the sweet pumps. I don't see any downside to its use. Especially if, indeed, it doesn't raise NO, which would mean there's no danger from elevated free radical levels.
  5. Registered User
    iForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    338
    Rep Power
    226

    Greater pumps, vascularity, strength, and endurance benefits can be found from ingredients that actally raise NO though...


    Agmatine sulfate
    creatine nitrate
    GPLC


    ^^^^ those actually have merit
  6. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    poison's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,904
    Rep Power
    37729

    What's the price difference per effective dose? agmantine sucks, btw, I got nothing from a long run.
  7. Registered User
    ecosocialist's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  174 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    277
    Rep Power
    203

    I think arginine has merit in that it can help provide a psychological edge due to vascularity, pump etc, BUT, as iForce said, it is an inferior product therefore when looked at from a distance, therefore its worthless in comparison to superior products for preworkout.
  8. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    poison's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,904
    Rep Power
    37729

    Why don't you include citrulline in that list?
  9. Registered User
    freefall365's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Age
    28
    Posts
    770
    Rep Power
    1035

    do arginine, ornithine, and citruline malate not increase "pump" though in the gym? Which means your muscles are getting an increase in blood and therefore are being "fed" better?

    I'm prob way off, it's just what I always thought to be true. interested to see what the pros say...
  10. Registered User
    iForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    338
    Rep Power
    226

    I didn't include CM because it raises Arginine stores in the body which in turn raise NO...it it's not a direct precursor.


    You guys arguing about the "pump"...what good is a pump if it doesn't give any benefits? NO increases will increase nutrient delivery, oxygen delivery, as well as actual strngth/endurance benefits.

    The "pump" feeling can be attained by carbs alone, or a few high rep sets.
  11. Registered User
    suresha's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    palm bay fl.
    Posts
    1,081
    Rep Power
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by iForce View Post
    I've been seeing a lot of arginine questions lately, and I'm a bit stumped as to why.

    Arginine has been proven to NOT raise NO levels in humans. It is completely worthless pre-wo in ANY form.



    Now don't get me wrong...arginine has it's place(gh release, insulin release), but it's before bed!!!
    i feel the same way regarding d-aspartic acid
  12. Registered User
    iForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    338
    Rep Power
    226

    To the poster just above me, arginine will provide a pump, but it will NOT dilate blood vessels...actually the opposite. Arginine pre-wo is the biggest scam this industry has ever fell for.

    A close second is the CEE scam
  13. Registered User
    iForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    338
    Rep Power
    226

    Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    i feel the same way regarding d-aspartic acid
    Daa doesn't interest me in the least...


    NMDA is a whole other story though
  14. Registered User
    suresha's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    palm bay fl.
    Posts
    1,081
    Rep Power
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by iForce View Post
    Daa doesn't interest me in the least...


    NMDA is a whole other story though
    muscle warfare and hard fx is the only two that i'll give the credit to, all the others are trying to ride their wave
  15. Registered User
    freefall365's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Age
    28
    Posts
    770
    Rep Power
    1035

    Quote Originally Posted by iForce View Post
    To the poster just above me, arginine will provide a pump, but it will NOT dilate blood vessels...actually the opposite. Arginine pre-wo is the biggest scam this industry has ever fell for.
    wow--i thought it did dilate blood vessels, hence the perceived increase in vascularity.

    so i guess it's total bunk for high bloop pressure and better woodies too..
  16. Registered User
    ecosocialist's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  174 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    277
    Rep Power
    203

    Arginine is pretty cool and all but lets be honest, it has nothing on the sheer mass gains seen from the strap.
  17. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    poison's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,904
    Rep Power
    37729

    Quote Originally Posted by iForce View Post
    I didn't include CM because it raises Arginine stores in the body which in turn raise NO...it it's not a direct precursor.


    You guys arguing about the "pump"...what good is a pump if it doesn't give any benefits? NO increases will increase nutrient delivery, oxygen delivery, as well as actual strngth/endurance benefits.

    The "pump" feeling can be attained by carbs alone, or a few high rep sets.
    Citrulline improves performance, regardless of pumps. Hence it's a better ingredient in a pump product, imo.

    I don't pretend to know why, I just know it IS: arginine provides increased, prolonged pumps (over a high-rep set or carb pump, the arginine pump just lasts longer and is more intense). A good many guys here work out partly or fully for cosmetic reasons, and so they're perfectly happy with a purely cosmetic pump effect, especially if it's cheap, safe, and takes quick effect.

    Personally it's not something I buy a product for, but if it does that, it's fine. If someone has a clue how it provides the pump without actually increasing recovery or endurance, i'd love to hear it.
  18. Registered User
    capnsavem's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  222 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Diego CA
    Posts
    2,226
    Rep Power
    1240

    Quote Originally Posted by iForce View Post
    To the poster just above me, arginine will provide a pump, but it will NOT dilate blood vessels...actually the opposite. Arginine pre-wo is the biggest scam this industry has ever fell for.

    A close second is the CEE scam
    i like this guy
  19. Registered User
    sanchezgreg18's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Age
    25
    Posts
    1,682
    Rep Power
    915

    ill stick to my glycocarn, icarrin, and agmatine. nothing is better i guarantee u that.
  20. Registered User
    iForce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    338
    Rep Power
    226

    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    ill stick to my glycocarn, icarrin, and agmatine. nothing is better i guarantee u that.
    Awesome combo right there!
  21. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    poison's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,904
    Rep Power
    37729

    How does arginine provide a pump while doing opposite of vasodialation?
  22. Registered User
    bolt10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    8,322
    Rep Power
    3458019

    Quote Originally Posted by iForce View Post
    Greater pumps, vascularity, strength, and endurance benefits can be found from ingredients that actally raise NO though...


    Agmatine sulfate
    creatine nitrate
    GPLC


    ^^^^ those actually have merit
    This no doubt...I have no use for arginine in my supps when these all provide a greater amount of benefits as well...
    PES Representative
    Don't miss out on the next deal:
    http://pescience.com/insider
    Protein Backed by Science: http://selectprotein.com
  23. Registered User
    tnubs's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,248
    Rep Power
    23616

    o.0 arginine helps me get a pump, my workout buddy too. its not in our heads.

    personally, a bigger pump will help me lift more weight. some days when im runnin on minimal carbs trying to cut i just cant get a pump at all and feeling deflated makes me try less hard. if i can get really pumped and im feeling huge, you bet im gona push more weight. i know a lot of ppl who are the same way.
    CELTIC LABS REP
  24. Registered User
    EustisPanther's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    385
    Rep Power
    268

    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    ill stick to my glycocarn, icarrin, and agmatine. nothing is better i guarantee u that.
    Nice, I'll have to look into this
  25. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    poison's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,904
    Rep Power
    37729

    Quote Originally Posted by EustisPanther View Post
    Nice, I'll have to look into this
    That's pretty much hemovol. Try it. And don't bother with the bulk powders, unless you cap em. HGW is HELL.
  26. Registered User
    EustisPanther's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    385
    Rep Power
    268

    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    That's pretty much hemovol. Try it. And don't bother with the bulk powders, unless you cap em. HGW is HELL.
    I cap my bulk powders. Swallowing CM in powder form is like licking a battery terminal
  27. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    poison's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,904
    Rep Power
    37729

    Well then do it, and report back!
  28. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Royd The Noyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Central U.S.
    Posts
    5,171
    Rep Power
    622614

    I have not read the thread but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    ...

    ARGININE AND ORNITHINE SUPPLEMENTATION
    INCREASES GROWTH HORMONE AND INSULIN-LIKE
    GROWTH FACTOR-1 SERUM LEVELS AFTER
    HEAVY-RESISTANCE EXERCISE IN
    STRENGTH-TRAINED ATHLETES
    ADAM ZAJAC,1 STANISŁAW POPRZE˛ CKI,2 ALEKSANDRA _ZEBROWSKA,3 MAŁGORZATA CHALIMONIUK,4
    AND JOZEF LANGFORT
    3,5




    From the study...

    GH



    IGF-1



    Study showed no impact on Cortisol, Test, or Insulin.
    Lactate was significantly lower during training with supplementation but at no other times (rest & recovery)
    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    btw other notes:


    • Diet was 60% chc, 25%pro, 15%fat
    • S group
      received an oral supplement of
      2,200 mg of L-ornithine, 3,000
      mg of L-Arg, and 12 mg of
      vitamin B12 (in gelatin capsules)
      twice daily for a total of 3 weeks.
    • The first
      dose was administered at least 2 hours after breakfast (to
      avoid competition for absorption with other amino acids)
      and 60 minutes before the training session.
    • The second dose
      of the supplement was taken at least 2 hours after the last
      meal, but 30 minutes before bedtime.
    • They made them ****ing back squat A LOT. Be thankful you were not part of this study.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook

  29. Registered User
    Type O Hero's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    858
    Rep Power
    73438

    I notice an increase in pump when I take it pre-workout.

    So basically to me it's just for fun. lol
  30. Registered User
    Eric160's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    728
    Rep Power
    497

    i used nanox9 by mussle tech and it was a blend of 4 Different forms of arginine and got such a pump my skin was bright red and arms felt like they were gonna pop and that was before i even started working out what else does this but NO. im not trying to boost the product either i hate muscle tech
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate or Arginine ethyl ester
    By corsaking in forum Supplement Logs
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-14-2009, 04:05 AM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-02-2006, 04:02 PM
  3. di arginine malate vs. arginine akg
    By biggun2181 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-01-2005, 04:40 AM
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-29-2003, 02:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.