The Divanil Scandal?

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    The Divanil Scandal?


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    So are they the only ones that can issue out Divanil and/or test it?
    Just curious because it states only that chromadex did not test divanil, other labs may have though...
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    I'd be curious to know where does Anabolic Innovations stand with respect to Testopro
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    AI is a solid company, and there are companies that do independent testing to ensure they have quality raws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural View Post
    AI is a solid company, and there are companies that do independent testing to ensure they have quality raws.
    agreed
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    i think the scandal is that only 5% was giving us great results and not 95%. I'd like to see someone come out with 10%.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural View Post
    AI is a solid company, and there are companies that do independent testing to ensure they have quality raws.
    well, but AX and Thermolife are all quite 'solid'?
    It's smart that AI didn't mention the percentage on TestoPro's ingredient sheet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    So guys all of us has been scammed...for years with the purity of 3,4-Divanil?
    The supplement companies that were buying the raw material that was supposedly 95% 3,4-Divanil are the ones that were scammed. Those who put 95% on their label did not know it was only 5% until, in AX's case, they had it tested themselvse's. AX has changed/will change it's label to reflect 5% 3,4-Divanil but the products which contain it will be the same.
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    Not sure if the actual ingredient has changed in any products, so to speak, but the issue is certainly one that has not only drawn a lot of attention, but raised a lot of eyebrows elsewhere. The issue is from the source of the materials claiming what things were. When put into the product and listed on the label, the name didn't necessarily change until recently.

    However, if you look at it in a positive aspect, you can see 2 good things coming from this:

    1. If 5% was working this well but was mislabeled as 95%, then that's still proof that it worked well. If it were 95% as listed, that'd be 90% more than what everyone was already taking. Would it be 90% better? I dunno...apparently I've only taken 5%.

    2. The industry is indeed changing. Responsibility and culpability are the new buzzwords, not "synergy" or "-bol". Eventhough Uncle Sam may be part to blame for it, the new regulations for the industry are forcing everyone to test and retest. For a company, it's initially expensive. But in the long-run, those that do the requisite testing or go above and beyond it to assure quality will survive and thrive as having reputable products. That, my friends, is a true win for us all. No more bathtub supplements! (Well, for the most part...ideally...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by n87 View Post
    I'd be curious to know where does Anabolic Innovations stand with respect to Testopro
    Sorry for the delay in answering I just saw this.

    Feel free to PM me with a link to a thread if I don't see it right away.

    We spoke about this in the beginning of March here:

    TestoPRO™ FAQ

    The problem is the standard. 1 testing facility says they have the correct standard another testing facility says they have the correct standard and they are not the same. The ingredient Divanil is a trademarked item which we receive from DS so we will do the same as they did and change the label.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER View Post
    Sorry for the delay in answering I just saw this.

    Feel free to PM me with a link to a thread if I don't see it right away.

    We spoke about this in the beginning of March here:

    TestoPRO™ FAQ

    The problem is the standard. 1 testing facility says they have the correct standard another testing facility says they have the correct standard and they are not the same. The ingredient Divanil is a trademarked item which we receive from DS so we will do the same as they did and change the label.
    even so it won't be 5% to 95% different....
    I think it's either cheating, or someone has bad scientific units understanding. Maybe the latter one. Big companies should really be much more careful about what they got. Basically i doubt any natural stuff will have a 95% purity unless it's very very extracted.
    If 5% works, it works, I don't mind even if it's just 1%. But what if someday their bulk ingredient is contaminated with some toxin?
    We can only trust these companies, but companies SHOULD NOT trust their ingredients suppliers. It's not an excuse to say 'it's supplier's problem'. I don't want to think how much the price difference between the bulk ingredients and the final products. Companies earn a lot of money from it (maybe AI is not an exception, sorry), so it's their responsiblity really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER View Post
    Sorry for the delay in answering I just saw this.

    Feel free to PM me with a link to a thread if I don't see it right away.

    We spoke about this in the beginning of March here:

    TestoPRO™ FAQ

    The problem is the standard. 1 testing facility says they have the correct standard another testing facility says they have the correct standard and they are not the same. The ingredient Divanil is a trademarked item which we receive from DS so we will do the same as they did and change the label.
    This is a huge problem, which I don't think people quite grasp with how these sort of things are being tested.

    Essentially you dissolve a fixed mass of your sample into a fixed volume of solvent. Different solvents will give different results. Then you run your dissolved sample in your chromatography device, and it generates a graph. You find a peak on that spectrum and look at how big that peak is with respect to the baseline. As concentration increases, that peak gets bigger. To generate a calibration curve, several standards are prepared. The standard is carefully prepared, and assumed to be accurate to its concentration.

    Unfortunately, there's no standard to standardize your first standard, so if it is off, all your standards will be off. That's where the problem comes from. For an esoteric compound such as this one, your lab is going to need to prepare one. Hopefully its a good one, there's no quantitative analysis for it.

    Essentially, there are a great many steps in the preparation of both the preparation of the standard and testing of the sample, which can botch the analysis. It seems a dispute like this comes out once a year. There have been disputes over labs on such things as this with ecdysterones, creatine, superdrol clones, and epistane.

    The bad news with this whole ordeal is that divanil is not 95% divanillyl tetrahydrofuan. The good news is that divanil contains 95% of the mixture they wanted to make, it's not spiked with anything, and it clearly works.
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    As you say without the correct standard it just doesn't work properly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    This is a huge problem, which I don't think people quite grasp with how these sort of things are being tested.

    Essentially you dissolve a fixed mass of your sample into a fixed volume of solvent. Different solvents will give different results. Then you run your dissolved sample in your chromatography device, and it generates a graph. You find a peak on that spectrum and look at how big that peak is with respect to the baseline. As concentration increases, that peak gets bigger. To generate a calibration curve, several standards are prepared. The standard is carefully prepared, and assumed to be accurate to its concentration.

    Unfortunately, there's no standard to standardize your first standard, so if it is off, all your standards will be off. That's where the problem comes from. For an esoteric compound such as this one, your lab is going to need to prepare one. Hopefully its a good one, there's no quantitative analysis for it.

    Essentially, there are a great many steps in the preparation of both the preparation of the standard and testing of the sample, which can botch the analysis. It seems a dispute like this comes out once a year. There have been disputes over labs on such things as this with ecdysterones, creatine, superdrol clones, and epistane.

    The bad news with this whole ordeal is that divanil is not 95% divanillyl tetrahydrofuan. The good news is that divanil contains 95% of the mixture they wanted to make, it's not spiked with anything, and it clearly works.
    Leave it to Bob to blow my mind with big words... Good post, mang.

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER View Post
    As you say without the correct standard it just doesn't work properly.
    Depends on perspective or what you mean by "work properly". In the sense of a test not working properly, then yes. Without a standard, there's no ruler to mark the inches. If you're talking real-world, then I'd say that whatever % it was has been pretty proven to "work".
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    Certainly interesting.

    Another thing Ive always had issue with is products with 100 ingredients, superior blend, better and higher amounts than the other guys, but theres no one testing the ingredient profile. Hell anybody could make up a list of stuff that sounds great, bottle up some crap filler, hype it with marketing, and make a killing off it before the word gets out to everybody their stuff was crap.

    ie: do I even have to say ~ mus-t ~ and they are certainly not the only example
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    I have nothing to add. Except thermolife sucks. Whew. I feel better.

    But yes, if the bulk I used was 5%, holy wow I can't imagine a higher percentage. I'd look like 14yo pizza-faced zit boy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-AD View Post
    Not sure if the actual ingredient has changed in any products, so to speak, but the issue is certainly one that has not only drawn a lot of attention, but raised a lot of eyebrows elsewhere. The issue is from the source of the materials claiming what things were. When put into the product and listed on the label, the name didn't necessarily change until recently.

    However, if you look at it in a positive aspect, you can see 2 good things coming from this:

    1. If 5% was working this well but was mislabeled as 95%, then that's still proof that it worked well. If it were 95% as listed, that'd be 90% more than what everyone was already taking. Would it be 90% better? I dunno...apparently I've only taken 5%.

    2. The industry is indeed changing. Responsibility and culpability are the new buzzwords, not "synergy" or "-bol". Eventhough Uncle Sam may be part to blame for it, the new regulations for the industry are forcing everyone to test and retest. For a company, it's initially expensive. But in the long-run, those that do the requisite testing or go above and beyond it to assure quality will survive and thrive as having reputable products. That, my friends, is a true win for us all. No more bathtub supplements! (Well, for the most part...ideally...)
    Nicely put T-AD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadBlocK View Post
    Certainly interesting.

    Another thing Ive always had issue with is products with 100 ingredients, superior blend, better and higher amounts than the other guys, but theres no one testing the ingredient profile. Hell anybody could make up a list of stuff that sounds great, bottle up some crap filler, hype it with marketing, and make a killing off it before the word gets out to everybody their stuff was crap.

    ie: do I even have to say ~ mus-t ~ and they are certainly not the only example
    That would be why the more reputable companies call to the general public for beta testing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    What?
    I knew there was risk in supplements but this is scary all over again.
    Because companies with good working products were not even aware.
    Then true 95% would be overkill.
    And here I was looking to try to get some bulk 95% divanil and 95% avenacosides for my own formula.

    Admittedly the 5% works very well if that is what it is.
    I had awesome recomp effects from 1600 mg of the Divanil solo.

    But like Thermo said the dead giveaway should have been it not being white powder. Have gotten some Euro extracts of mucuna and rhamponticum and other things at high levels and had them tested when I had a friend with access to HPLC.. Most of them tested accurate in the high 90's range and almost all were white or off white in color.

    Makes me think of pals I knew in a certain type of business as a youth.
    They would get in trouble with customers trusting their supplier for a good product. lolz.
    (note - the author did not participate nor have any actual knowledge of certain things. just what was heard in conversation and vaguely)
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    uh oh
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    Wow just discovered this thread. There were companies claiming they had 97% as well.
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    Has this scandal been resolved or is all 3,4 Divanil still only 5%?
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    the material has been identical since it's been released. it had great results when first released, and still has great results now, regardless of the % purity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Engineer View Post
    Has this scandal been resolved or is all 3,4 Divanil still only 5%?
    Its definitely not 95%

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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    the material has been identical since it's been released. it had great results when first released, and still has great results now, regardless of the % purity.
    Agreed you just had some companies that BSed consumers for awhile

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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    the material has been identical since it's been released. it had great results when first released, and still has great results now, regardless of the % purity.
    agreed.
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    missed seeing everyone as well. looks like im out of expo duty for a while though which i enjoy haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    missed seeing everyone as well. looks like im out of expo duty for a while though which i enjoy haha
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    body power = best expo i've ever been too, and i hope i can go to that one again
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    body power = best expo i've ever been too, and i hope i can go to that one again
    if you start a thread on this link it here.
    i've heard about body power, but that is all.
    best ever = peaks my interest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural View Post
    if you start a thread on this link it here.
    i've heard about body power, but that is all.
    best ever = peaks my interest
    the end users were genuinely interesting in learning about product, not just free samples. Everyone was polite/courteous and it was just a civil time all around. The O and Arnold I feel like are just people looking for handouts who don't give one crap about any one particular vendor really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    the end users were genuinely interesting in learning about product, not just free samples. Everyone was polite/courteous and it was just a civil time all around. The O and Arnold I feel like are just people looking for handouts who don't give one crap about any one particular vendor really.

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