BCAA's FTW!

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    Arrow BCAA's FTW!


    ...

    J Strength Cond Res. 2010 Mar 17. [Epub ahead of print]
    Amino Acid Supplements and Recovery from High-Intensity Resistance Training.

    Sharp CP, Pearson DR.

    1Department of Health and Human Performance, College of Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina; and 2Strength Research Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN.

    Sharp, CPM and Pearson, DR. Amino acid supplements and recovery from high-intensity training. J Strength Cond Res 24(4): 1125-1130, 2010-The purpose of this study was to investigate whether short-term amino acid supplementation could maintain a short-term net anabolic hormonal profile and decrease muscle cell damage during a period of high-intensity resistance training (overreaching), thereby enhancing recovery and decreasing the risk of injury and illness. Eight previously resistance trained males were randomly assigned to either a high branched chain amino acids (BCAA) or placebo group. Subjects consumed the supplement for 3 weeks before commencing a fourth week of supplementation with concomitant high-intensity total-body resistance training (overreaching) (3 x 6-8 repetitions maximum, 8 exercises). Blood was drawn prior to and after supplementation, then again after 2 and 4 days of training. Serum was analyzed for testosterone, cortisol, and creatine kinase. Serum testosterone levels were significantly higher (p < 0.001), and cortisol and creatine kinase levels were significantly lower (p < 0.001, and p = 0.004, respectively) in the BCAA group during and following resistance training. These findings suggest that short-term amino acid supplementation, which is high in BCAA, may produce a net anabolic hormonal profile while attenuating training-induced increases in muscle tissue damage. Athletes' nutrient intake, which periodically increases amino acid intake to reflect the increased need for recovery during periods of overreaching, may increase subsequent competitive performance while decreasing the risk of injury or illness.

    PMID: 20300014 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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    Interesting read, doesnt mention dose amounts or time taken? Short term would probably be just pre,intra and post correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCL86 View Post
    Interesting read, doesnt mention dose amounts or time taken? Short term would probably be just pre,intra and post correct?
    They took the following split into two dosing once with breakfast and once in the evening with a meal:

    2g's glutamine
    1800mg's l-luecine
    750mg's l-isoleucine
    750mg's l-valine

    4 weeks total
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    Wow those arnt high numbers at all...If I was ever strapped for cash I think whey and BCAAs would always stay priority 1. Xtend is amazing, Id like to try BC+EAA though to switch it up sometime.

    Thanks for the info!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    They took the following split into two dosing once with breakfast and once in the evening with a meal:

    2g's glutamine
    1800mg's l-luecine
    750mg's l-isoleucine
    750mg's l-valine

    4 weeks total
    I don't understand how taking a scoop of protein powder or having a steak or something is different from free form amino acids.
    you could easily get 2g glutamine and 4-5 grams BCAA's from a glass of milk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurassic View Post
    I don't understand how taking a scoop of protein powder or having a steak or something is different from free form amino acids.
    you could easily get 2g glutamine and 4-5 grams BCAA's from a glass of milk.
    Exactly. I can get all the BCAAs I need in one scoop of ON whey pre-workout... without spending all the extra dough on a BCAA supp.
    RTR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurassic View Post
    I don't understand how taking a scoop of protein powder or having a steak or something is different from free form amino acids.
    you could easily get 2g glutamine and 4-5 grams BCAA's from a glass of milk.
    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    Exactly. I can get all the BCAAs I need in one scoop of ON whey pre-workout... without spending all the extra dough on a BCAA supp.
    I didnt say it was. But think of it this way.

    To get the BCAA's used in the study you would need about 1 scoop of your typical BCAA product. Or on average $1 or less/serving. Last I checked 8oz of steak is anywhere from 4-15 bucks depending on the cut. So in reality, your spending extra dough on that steak...not the bcaa supp.

    There are also many other issues to think about when comparing a meal to a bcaa supplement (absorption, calories, etc).

    I'm not defending the study. Just posting for informative purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I didnt say it was. But think of it this way.

    To get the BCAA's used in the study you would need about 1 scoop of your typical BCAA product. Or on average $1 or less/serving. Last I checked 8oz of steak is anywhere from 4-15 bucks depending on the cut. So in reality, your spending extra dough on that steak...not the bcaa supp.

    There are also many other issues to think about when comparing a meal to a bcaa supplement (absorption, calories, etc).

    I'm not defending the study. Just posting for informative purposes.
    This makes sense I guess, but there are always things cheaper than steaks but with steak you also get all the other amino acids. And there is also the maximum amount of amino acids your body can absorb in a day/at once so if you already had a high protein diet, your body is at a max of the amount amino acids it can absorb anyways.

    I do however see the anti-catabolic value while working out and sipped throughout the day while dieting.
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    I get where you guys are going with this but to say drinking a glass of milk and drinking Xtend are the same is going a bit far. I agree you could have sufficient protein synthesis without a BCAA supplement BUT there have been many logs where people have had great recovery/endurance from mega dosing BCAAs.

    I feel much better recovery from dosing BCAAs pre intra and post. I have also read studies where BCAAs intra have been shown to reduce serotonin levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCL86 View Post
    I get where you guys are going with this but to say drinking a glass of milk and drinking Xtend are the same is going a bit far. I agree you could have sufficient protein synthesis without a BCAA supplement BUT there have been many logs where people have had great recovery/endurance from mega dosing BCAAs.

    I feel much better recovery from dosing BCAAs pre intra and post. I have also read studies where BCAAs intra have been shown to reduce serotonin levels.
    I also dose them pre intra and post. The first time I did this I noticed that I wasn't tired at the end of my workout as much. But then I added chocolate milk or whey+carbs 45 minutes pre-workout and it had the same effect.
    I don't understand how BCAA's "boost recovery" when you take them during/after your workout, because there isn't a huge boost in muscle building right after your workout. A boost in nutrient uptake sure, but you still recover outside the gym.

    I suppose reducing muscle break-down during a workout could technically boost recovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCL86 View Post
    I get where you guys are going with this but to say drinking a glass of milk and drinking Xtend are the same is going a bit far. I agree you could have sufficient protein synthesis without a BCAA supplement BUT there have been many logs where people have had great recovery/endurance from mega dosing BCAAs.

    I feel much better recovery from dosing BCAAs pre intra and post. I have also read studies where BCAAs intra have been shown to reduce serotonin levels.
    I won't go so far as to say chocolate milk will cover it... but a scoop or so of whey protein (which every lifter I know has in the cupboard) will do the trick.

    A single serving of a BCAA product costs about the same as a scoop of whey protein.

    One serving of ON whey
    Isoleucine: 1573 mg (2360 mg in 1.5 scoops)
    Leucine: 2531 mg (3797 mg in 1.5 scoops)
    Valine: 1422 mg (2133 mg in 1.5 scoops)

    One serving of Xtend
    Isoleucine: 1750 mg
    Leucine: 3500 mg
    Valine: 1750 mg

    Basically, I would say a BCAA-only product is great for someone who gets his/her protein from whole food sources exclusively. If whey is used... then I think it's just a luxury purchase.

    Btw... Royd, I didn't assume you had a stance one way or the other. Thanks for posting the data. Repped.
    RTR.
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    Here is some thought on why to take BCAA's in addition to whey protein milk or other forms of protein.
    L. Norton: "BCAAs have been shown in scientific research to increase protein synthesis and reduce protein degradation. However, many people suggest that one can just increase their consumption of whey protein, which is rich in BCAAs. Unfortunately, this is not the case. The BCAAs in whey are peptide bound to other amino acids and must be liberated through digestion and absorbed into the bloodstream in order to exert their effects. Even though whey protein is relatively fast digesting, it still takes several hours for all of the amino acids to be liberated and absorbed into the bloodstream. However, BCAAs in supplement form are free-form BCAAs and require no digestion. Therefore, they are rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to a much greater extent than peptide bound amino acids.

    Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels to a much greater extent than a 30 gram dose of whey protein. It will also impact protein synthesis to a greater degree. The reason a supplement has such a powerful effect on the blood levels of BCAAs is that unlike other amino acids, BCAAs are not metabolized to a significant extent by the small intestine or the liver. Therefore, an oral supplement is almost like a BCAA injection because it reaches the bloodstream so rapidly."


    "study showing free whey + free leucine is superior to whey alone in humans



    Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Apr;288(4):E645-53. Epub 2004 Nov 23. Related Articles, Links
    Click here to read
    Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects.

    Koopman R, Wagenmakers AJ, Manders RJ, Zorenc AH, Senden JM, Gorselink M, Keizer HA, van Loon LJ.

    Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. R.Koopman@HB.unimaas.nl

    The present study was designed to determine postexercise muscle protein synthesis and whole body protein balance following the combined ingestion of carbohydrate with or without protein and/or free leucine. Eight male subjects were randomly assigned to three trials in which they consumed drinks containing either carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate and protein (CHO+PRO), or carbohydrate, protein, and free leucine (CHO+PRO+Leu) following 45 min of resistance exercise. A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine was applied, with blood samples and muscle biopsies collected to assess fractional synthetic rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle as well as whole body protein turnover during 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin response was higher in the CHO+PRO+Leu compared with the CHO and CHO+PRO trials (+240 +/- 19% and +77 +/- 11%, respectively, P < 0.05). Whole body protein breakdown rates were lower, and whole body protein synthesis rates were higher, in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials compared with the CHO trial (P < 0.05). Addition of leucine in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial resulted in a lower protein oxidation rate compared with the CHO+PRO trial. Protein balance was negative during recovery in the CHO trial but positive in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials. In the CHO+PRO+Leu trial, whole body net protein balance was significantly greater compared with values observed in the CHO+PRO and CHO trials (P < 0.05). Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of postexercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 +/- 0.006 vs. 0.061 +/- 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 +/- 0.0104%/h). We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only."

    "Carli G, Bonifazi M, Lodi L, et al. Changes in the exercise-induced hormone response to BCAAs administration. Eur J Appl Physiol 1992; 64:272-277, compared test, gh and insulin response to exercise with a commercial diet product containing BCAAs, milk protein, fructose and other carbs and fats and the same mixture minus the BCAAs but were replaced with equivalent grams of milk protein. The athletes that ingested the meal without BCAAs indicated a decrease in serum free test and shbg. This was believed to be the result of increased metabolic clearance of testosterone. The athletes with BCAAs, showed no reduction in the hormones noted and they were actually increased following the rest period. They concluded that BCCAs provide a direct anabolic effect on muscle proteins during exercise. In addition, they also noted the anticatabolic effect of BCAA supplementation indicated by the test:cortisol ratio, which as we all know, is an indicator of changes in the anabolic-androgenic activity of the body."

    If you don't currently use BCAA's and have not before...I would seriously invest in a jug and try it out. Within a week and a bit if using them when I first started I lost about a 1% of bf with no change in weight and my lifts went up noticeably, with no change in diet or program. You can get one in bulk for fairly cheap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktail View Post
    Here is some thought on why to take BCAA's in addition to whey protein milk or other forms of protein.
    L. Norton: "BCAAs have been shown in scientific research..."
    Layne Norton works for Scivation... makers of Xtend.
    http://scivation.com/teamscivation/laynenorton.htm

    Look, maybe there's absolute truth to the studies he cited. My question would be this: At the end of the day, what difference does an immediate BCAA spike actually make in training and/or physique?

    For every Layne Norton who endorses and uses it, there's a bodybuilder who doesn't. This issue has been debated several times to a dead heat over at bb.com.

    I've supplemented with BCAAs pre-workout. I've used a scoop of whey pre-workout. I noticed zero difference in any category between the two. But hey, that's just my experience.
    RTR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    Layne Norton works for Scivation... makers of Xtend.
    http://scivation.com/teamscivation/laynenorton.htm

    Look, maybe there's absolute truth to the studies he cited. My question would be this: At the end of the day, what difference does an immediate BCAA spike actually make in training and/or physique?

    For every Layne Norton who endorses and uses it, there's a bodybuilder who doesn't. This issue has been debated several times to a dead heat over at bb.com.

    I've supplemented with BCAAs pre-workout. I've used a scoop of whey pre-workout. I noticed zero difference in any category between the two. But hey, that's just my experience.
    Sure he does, but the studies were not done by him were they? How many of those bodybuilders are natural and see the relevance of using that or pinning themselves and using their money to further that process instead?
    Really though its up to the consumer and if you notice a difference from dosing it. I do and I am a cheap bastard so I wouldn't waste my money on it if I didn't get the results I wanted. If guys want huge gains, incredible recovery etc. Its not going to come from supplementation. Supplements are just that. They supplement your training/diet program. If you are training naturally you WILL notice a big difference. If not well you really don't NEED it, because you will already be getting amazing results. Hell I know a guy who has been cycling for the last 10 years. He lives no joke off mac and cheese,perogies and ichiban and is 250+ and ripped.He takes no supplements not even a multi. Would he look like that if he didn't cycle? Fuk no. Those of us who don't cycle anymore or don't wish too at all, like an edge no matter how slight it is.
    Try it out though rubber, do it for a month. Log your progress. Dose it morning,pre/intra/post and before bed. Then tell me you don't see and feel a difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktail View Post
    Sure he does, but the studies were not done by him were they?
    In fairness, I stated that he cited them... and there's no measure against dosing whey in a manner to get an equivalent amount of BCAAs.

    And, I'm in agreement with you on what "supplementation" is and isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktail View Post
    Try it out though rubber, do it for a month. Log your progress. Dose it morning,pre/intra/post and before bed. Then tell me you don't see and feel a difference.
    I did the whole BCAA multiple times daily back when Weider ruled the supplement market. I've also used Xtend on a trial basis to see if there were any tangible benefits.

    At the end of the day, I just think that a scoop of whey taken morning, pre/intra/post-workout, and before bed offers an almost identical result. I'm not saying BCAAs aren't cost-effective... I just don't think there's a need for another container when whey is around.

    I don't think we disagree... maybe my OCD just convinces me to keep my supplement cabinet more streamlined.
    RTR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    In fairness, I stated that he cited them... and there's no measure against dosing whey in a manner to get an equivalent amount of BCAAs.

    And, I'm in agreement with you on what "supplementation" is and isn't.



    I did the whole BCAA multiple times daily back when Weider ruled the supplement market. I've also used Xtend on a trial basis to see if there were any tangible benefits.

    At the end of the day, I just think that a scoop of whey taken morning, pre/intra/post-workout, and before bed offers an almost identical result. I'm not saying BCAAs aren't cost-effective... I just don't think there's a need for another container when whey is around.

    I don't think we disagree... maybe my OCD just convinces me to keep my supplement cabinet more streamlined.
    Ah, I cry your pardon, I missed the "cited" part. Yes I agree whey has an almost identical result when taken separately, (though scivation is very under dosed as to what I use) together though is having your cake and eating it too IMO. I remember having a similar discussion with people about eating meat or other sources for protein vs whey back in the day.
    I have about the opposite kind of OCD where I keep picking up "deals" on supps that I want to guinea pig myself with(the trash pile is much larger than the keep pile haha) and so my counter is divided between tried and true and untested(the garbage taking the losers of course haha). I don't smoke or drink anymore though so this is a pretty good vice.
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    Cheers for posting this, it just solidifies my opinion on BCAAs being a staple in everyone's workout arsenal

    Which one do you use mate?
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    What BCAA is everyone taking!??
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    Well obviously I'm using Body Mortar as I work for AMS. So I'm biased.

    Also just to note Layne actually was involved in the study measuring maximum protein synthesis (MPS), in rats using LEU and carbs.
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